Author Topic: Amanda Knox. Is she really guilty?  (Read 40709 times)

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Offline grahameb

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Amanda Knox. Is she really guilty?
« on: January 31, 2014, 12:04:PM »
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/01/30/world/europe/italy-amanda-knox-verdict-explainer/
Let's look at this case again. What do members here think, guilty or not guilty?

Offline nugnug

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Re: Amanda Knox. Is she really guilty?
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2014, 12:49:PM »
no she isnt in fact shes so vnot guilty its laughable.

Offline grahameb

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Re: Amanda Knox. Is she really guilty?
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2014, 01:15:PM »
no she isnt in fact shes so vnot guilty its laughable.
What you are saying then is that this is another miscarriage of justice?

Offline nugnug

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Re: Amanda Knox. Is she really guilty?
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2014, 01:18:PM »
yes thats what i am saying.

Offline susan

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Re: Amanda Knox. Is she really guilty?
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2014, 01:22:PM »
Hi Grahame not really followed this case but have a gut feeling she was involved although not the one who actually committed the murder.

Offline nugnug

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Re: Amanda Knox. Is she really guilty?
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2014, 01:53:PM »
i thought she was guilty to start with but martins convinced me otherwise.

Offline susan

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Re: Amanda Knox. Is she really guilty?
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2014, 01:58:PM »
Hi nugnug  never read Martin's take on the case but will do so I am like you and would be influenced by his theory of what happened.

Offline susan

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Re: Amanda Knox. Is she really guilty?
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2014, 02:14:PM »
nugnug  just read all the posts on this case from earlier and it seems I think the same now as I did then think Amanda and her boyfriend were involved in some kind of threesome sex act that went wrong but think they left and she was murdered by the guy in prison.

Offline nugnug

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Offline Jan

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Re: Amanda Knox. Is she really guilty?
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2014, 06:30:PM »
Another case of contaminated forensic evidence that was not looked at properly until a month after the crime and also trial by personality.

The bit that I am most interested in is the letter that Rudy wrote implicating them? I have not been able to find out what that contains?

If Rudy says they did it and how - then surely the forensics should confirm that "scenario " ( :o theres that word again!) Without any doubt. But as far as I can see the forensic evidence against Knox and ex  is very inconclusive.


Offline Alias

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Re: Amanda Knox. Is she really guilty?
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2014, 09:16:PM »
I heard yesterday that there was NO dna fom neither Amanda nor Raphaele at the crime scene. Not any dna found anyway. That, in and of itself is strange, since Amanda lived in that apartment. Probably bad police work, sigh.
I honestly don´t know what to think about the case, who did it, I mean; but with the lack of evidence, it should have been dropped.

Offline Martin

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Re: Amanda Knox. Is she really guilty?
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2014, 09:12:AM »
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/01/30/world/europe/italy-amanda-knox-verdict-explainer/
Let's look at this case again. What do members here think, guilty or not guilty?


Here is a good summary of the case from a logical point of view. Hitler said that it's easier to get away with telling a big lie than a small lie. He was right about one thing, if not about about everything.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/31/amanda-knox-raffaele-sollecito-case-harsh-verdict-italian-justice?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487


"The Italian justice system has pulled off an astonishing and unenviable feat: finding Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito guilty of murder – for the second time – without a shred of evidence to substantiate the verdict.

This case, so long and tortured and so unsatisfactory to many, seems destined to go down not just as a breathtaking miscarriage of justice, but one that raises serious doubts about Italy’s ability to mete out criminal justice based on factual verification and proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

Consider: the appeals court that in 2011 found Knox and Sollecito not guilty of murdering Meredith Kercher and set them free after four years in prison made clear that almost every pillar of evidence mounted against them had collapsed. A court-ordered reappraisal of the forensic evidence completely dismantled the prosecution’s claims about the purported murder weapon, refuted the contention that Sollecito’s DNA was on Kercher’s torn bra strap, and made clear there were no physical traces of either defendant in the room where the murder took place.

Nothing, in other words, tied them to the crime except for theories and conjecture unsupported by actual evidence. By contrast, the DNA of Rudy Guede, the Ivorian-born drifter now serving a 16-year sentence for the murder, was all over the crime scene.

The high court justices who threw out the first appeal and ordered a new trial last March did so not because it had doubts about the forensic reappraisal, but rather because, in their view, the appeals court had focused too much on the shortcomings of individual pieces of evidence instead of examining the case “as a whole”. This alone was a deeply disconcerting line of argument.

The high court was convinced, even without proof, that Meredith Kercher had died as a result of a multi-person sex game gone wrong and said a new trial must take this into account. Enter Alessandro Crini, the lead prosecutor in the latest appeal, who did his best to follow the high court’s directions but could not make the sex-game theory stick.

Instead, Crini came up with an entirely new scenario, unheard in any previous court proceedings going back to 2008, in which he envisioned Knox and Kercher arguing over an unflushed toilet and then somehow allowing the argument to escalate to the point where Knox pulled an eight-inch kitchen knife from her purse and Sollecito plunged his pocket knife into her neck. Guede’s role, Crini claimed, was limited to “satisfying himself in barbarous fashion” – in other words, seeking sexual gratification while the murder took place in front of him.

The kitchen knife has been tested repeatedly and it is now agreed by all parties that Kercher’s DNA was not on it. Sollecito’s penknife, meanwhile, was never seriously considered to be a factor until Crini suddenly decided it was—again, without a shred of forensic evidence. The prosecution had nothing to place Knox or Sollecito in the house on the night of the murder, much less in Kercher’s room. And it had no motive to offer beyond the ludicrous notion – also unproven -- that Knox was moved to homicidal rage because Kercher accused her of being messy around the house, and Sollecito was willing to go along with the crime out of love for her.

Somehow – we won’t know the reasoning for another three months -- the Florence appeals court took this nonsense seriously enough to find Knox and Sollecito guilty and sentence them to 28-and-a-half years and 25 years respectively. The case will now return to the high court, which must confirm the sentences before they take effect. The future certainly looks grim for the defendants, especially for Sollecito who is in Italy and has been ordered to surrender his passport. Knox, who is in the US, will most likely avoid having to return to prison in Italy but she can never go back there and remains mired in legal costs and liabilities.

A case that began as tragedy and turned swiftly to farce under the glare of the international media spotlight has thus taken on new tragic overtones. It boils down to an Italian justice system more interested in saving face than in looking at the evidence. In another judicial environment, the focus might be on the multiple pieces of evidence presented in court by the Perugia police and by the original prosecutor, Giuliano Mignini, which fell apart on closer scrutiny; on the fact that Mignini was fighting off criminal charges of prosecutorial misconduct when he mounted the original case; on the fact that Sollecito was put in solitary confinement for six months solely on the basis of the blood-stained print of a shoe that was later demonstrated not to be his; or on the fact that chief homicide detective on the case, Monica Napoleoni, has since been removed from her job on suspicion that she abused her position to try to intimidate her ex-husband in a child custody dispute.

Those who believe Knox and Sollecito are guilty have often complained that the memory of the crime victim, Meredith Kercher, has been lost in the media shuffle. The real scandal, though, is the way the entire Italian judicial system has itself tarnished Kercher’s memory by chasing phantoms and needlessly tormenting two wholly innocent young people, all because it won’t admit that it blew the case from the start."

Andrew Gumbel was co-author of Raffaele Sollecito's account of the case, Honor Bound: My Journey to Hell and Back with Amanda Knox

« Last Edit: February 01, 2014, 10:21:AM by Martin »

Offline Martin

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Re: Amanda Knox. Is she really guilty?
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2014, 09:49:AM »
http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/304-justice/21803-focus-amanda-knox-and-the-wages-of-american-imperialism

Above is another well informed view of the case, but if Jan Moir is more your cup of tea...below 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2549868/For-pastel-clad-vision-noble-suffering-theres-one-victim-not-Meredith-writes-JAN-MOIR.html


Amanda Knox and the Wages of American Imperialism

By Marc Ash, Reader Supported News

31 January 14

"Amanda Knox and the international circus that surrounds her actually matter. It's really about something bigger.

If it looks as though the case against Knox and Raffaele Sollecito is superficial at best, there's a reason for that - it is. To say that because a speck of Knox's DNA may have been present - on a knife, or a bra clasp, in the apartment in which she resided - is absurd on its face and constitutes no evidence of anything. In addition, neither prosecutor got anywhere near presenting a viable connection between the man convicted of murdering Meredith Kercher, Rudy Guede, and Knox or Sollecito. The purported collaboration was the stuff of a poorly written work of fiction. In fact there was no evidence of collaboration between Guede and Knox or Sollecito presented to the court at all.

In their totality, the combined theories presented to the three courts by two prosecutors were so illogical and utterly lacking in substantiation that it's the prosecutors, not the defendants, who should have been on trial - for misconduct.

Further, that a second prosecutor could present a second case that all but abandoned the entire premise of the first case, after the first case was thrown out on appeal, is patently malicious, and absolutely does constitute a separate/unique judicial instance and double jeopardy in a very material sense. The whole thing makes a profound mockery of the entire concept of criminal justice.

But while there is little chance that Amanda Knox is guilty of murdering anyone, she is in fact guilty of two very important things: being an inconveniently pretty young woman and being an American abroad in the Bush era.

By the fall of 2007, Italy was in a significant state of conflict with the US over the Bush administration's policy of extraordinary rendition. Of specific note were Italian kidnapping charges against nearly two dozen CIA agents for the kidnapping of Muslim cleric Abu Omar, resulting in 23 convictions. The New York Times reported, "Judge Oscar Magi handed an eight-year sentence to Robert Seldon Lady, a former C.I.A. base chief in Milan, and five-year sentences to the 22 other Americans, including an Air Force colonel and 21 C.I.A. operatives."

Italy's decision to confront America's cavalier disregard for their borders, laws, and judicial system was in line with objections and threats of prosecution by several nations, including German arrest warrants for CIA agents in the kidnapping and extraordinary rendition case of Khaled el-Masri, a German citizen.

What was at issue for those nations from which citizens and residents were taken was their national sovereignty and the integrity of their judicial process. None of which appeared to matter to the Bush operatives, but mattered greatly to those nations where the crimes occurred - including, significantly, Italy.

In the midst of this international conflict simmering just below the surface of broad public view, a young American woman traveled to Perugia, Italy, to study. Her subsequent arrest and high-profile trial for the murder of roommate and fellow student Meredith Kercher would rivet world attention on the very same Italian judicial system that the US had casually disregarded throughout the Bush years.

Italy never got their CIA agents, but they got a pretty young girl from Seattle, and with her the undivided attention of America and the world to the authority of Italian justice.

It's not clear if Amanda Knox will foot the bill for the 23 convicted CIA agents, but what is clear is that Italy and many other countries view America's policy of rendition as indeed extraordinary, and they have a point to make."

Marc Ash was formerly the founder and Executive Director of Truthout, and is now founder and Editor of Reader Supported News.

 
« Last Edit: February 01, 2014, 10:20:AM by Martin »

Offline nugnug

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Re: Amanda Knox. Is she really guilty?
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2014, 11:00:AM »
are jan mor self apointed judge of everybody else.

that articale showed no insight into the case whatsoever an she gets payed to write that shite.