Daniel and Nicholas Caffell: 22 June 1979-7 August 1985

[maggie]

Maggie, we are only allowed to push boundries if our paren ts are wise, generous and confident enough to allow us space to do it. For some adoptees, where money and property is up for grabs, it's as if they have to earn it by working hard to prove to their parents and wider family that their adoption was justified.

Hi April, I really find this hard to comprehend,  My children were brought up and treated exactly the same as I would have treated my own, except maybe more so because I was so thankful to have them.
I do understand and have seen whispers of them not being quite accepted from some family members, not I may add any of my relatives. 

[killingeve]

I had thought of saving this thread for next week,for 22nd June the birthday of Nicholas and Daniel Caffell,sons of Colin Caffell and Sheila Jean Caffell nee Bamber,yet it’s a bit like looking forward to Christmas when it passes all too soon,when it’s the anticipation in which lies the excitement,the blowing out of candles on a chocolate birthday cake and the thought that someone cares for you to have gone to so much trouble to organize a party and for one to be made a fuss of and to feel special even if it's for just one day.

But Nicholas and Daniel Caffell didn’t get the opportunity to celebrate so many birthdays,just more than the fingers of one hand before their lives were snuffed out as if they were six candles atop that birthday cake which ran down and were consumed.Six years of a life where people born today can expect to live to 90,not forgetting the accident of birth in the first place which scientists tell us is infinitesimal to be here at all.Of course one respects people who actually knew Jeremy Bamber and who tirelessly campaign for his release,however mistaken they may be,and who work for no recompense, but for all the videos I have seen on youtube with the haunting piano music trilling across what admittedly is or was at least a handsome bloke bewailing the loss of his liberty yet whom to some here is but a murderous Pied Piper,when in this thread at least the onus is on those who cannot and will never speak back.

For all the arguments and domestic upheavals in Colin and Sheila’s lives there seemed to me always to be a common bond with the children,and within the confines of her illness Sheila always put them first. She would never entertain men whilst the twins were present,if her illness did cause neglect at times she was horrified at any mistakes she had made,and the children were never a weapon used against Colin on any occasion.

It is PC Woodcock’s statement which reminds us how the boys were discovered,one lying on his back with bullets between the eyes,the other still sucking his thumb whilst lying on his right hand side. This utter callousness is unequalled and unparallelled even in the shooting of June seven times,the final shot again right between the eyes,we have the concomitant shooting and vindictive bashing of Nevill with the rifle butt which is how Jeremy repaid this Darby and Joan couple for adopting him then sending him away and in his eyes depriving him of the love and affection he needed,yet when that was more forthcoming after the parents recognized any latent mistakes it was at that stage only their bank balances which interested him. June’s admission of mistakes as she turned to the security of her God rather than face the turmoil of her domestic life manifested itself in the nescienct yet heartfelt simplicity of the letter to be opened upon the occasion of her death,but which was screwed up by Jeremy as he sneered “I’m glad she’s dead”,in contrast to the unswerving loyalty Jeremy shows his parents in prison twenty eight years after he killed them. http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=179.0;attach=277;image

I note among researching this thread that member ceedeells writes of discussing the twins with Jeremy and that he was in fact very fond of them,any reticence being out of emotion for the deaths of ones so young. This fondness is also speculated on by egap1 in nugnug’s thread “the twins staying” which can be read here:
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2264.0.html
The truth is probably very different. If Mike’s assertion that the first ten bullets were fired seven to June,one each to the twins and one to Nevill is correct this would tally with Daniel receiving shot 1 independent of the others,shots 2-5 made in an arc pattern,then after Nicholas’s first shot Jeremy running into June’s room to incapacitate her as it was common knowledge that she was a light sleeper and Jeremy would take no chances for any form of defence. Jeremy concluded the slaughtering of his family by leading his sister to her death by the hand,a young gullible girl who put her trust in a handsome con man whose only intention by the end of those early hours was to be the sole beneficiary of an estate worth £2 million in today’s money.

I could go on but will stop with one more posting of the red jewellery box which Colin treasures of the few momentoes left of his beautiful children born of two beautiful parents. I’m ready for the vitriol and personal invective from the highest levels which was hinted at several months ago when wild allegations were made of this site being infiltrated by paedophiles. But I will have my say just as I sit through those lamentable videos screaming innocence when Jeremy had no Christmas dinner which rings hollow to those of my mindset,when Nicholas and Daniel are absent at the table where Colin,Sheila and a cake with 34 candles are waiting. http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1985.0.html

Hi Steve_uk

I believe where posters have suggested that JB may have been genuinely fond of the twins and that is why he enquired about any pending visits it might have been based on his relationship with the children of his ex partner, Suzette Ford, who said in her witness statement:

" JB v. Good with my children.  They loved him.  They still talk of him now although they haven't seen him for quite a while.  He'd play with them a lot.  He used to love playing Lego with them.  He bought them c£70 worth of Lego.  He'd take us out quite a lot as well for example to the park".

[killingeve]

As you say you can't take Julie in isolation and if her testimony is true then Jeremy is guilty. I've even read one thread on this forum declaring Julie guilty because her surname happens to be Mugford.

I seem to recall the thread was exploring the possibility of the jury subliminally associating JM's surname, MUGford, with JM being a bit of a MUG, and if so the jury giving her the benefit of the doubt over JB rather than declaring her guilty based on her surname.  I don't think the thread was really meant to be taken seriously.

[Steve_uk]

Unsuspecting? He 'supposedly' told her of his plans a year before the deaths and if she is using the weak excuse of 'I didn't think he was serious' she could have been left in no doubt 'after' the event but still didn't nothing. The ONLY reason she brought this 'story' to the fore was because she was jealous and not just of the females in Jeremy's life but also his friends. I don't think you will ever find much sympathy for Julie here - even among the guilty supporters!!

She didn't want Jeremy to go to jail as she had been in love with him and still part of her was. She probably realized afterwards she was facing at least a sociopath if not a psychopath when Jeremy told her at Blazer's restaurant Blackheath:"I don't feel anything for them..maybe there is something wrong with me.."

[Steve_uk]

[/color]

This makes me feel numb inside.  When a child is born, we are under the delusion that that child will be loved throughout its natural days on this earth.  But in Jeremy's case he was given away when he was born, to a well to do family and well respected one at that.  I feel sure that during Jeremy's life at home, he had some warmth and love from his adopted parents.  Not to have this would have been cruel and I doubt NB and JB were like that in real life.  They were quiet people, maybe they were none mixing people who liked to stay private....therefore kept their children private in a sense they never had friends round for parties and did not attend local school....But, we know Jeremy did take friends home when he got older.... McDonald, Julie and Suzette...did not Jeremy invite his parents for a meal with his girlfriend Mrs Ford....So not all was bad at home.  From what I have picked up, it was a more controlling situation from home than anything else....The young Jeremy and even Sheila both left home at a young age and did the complete opposite to what their parents requested of them...I assume this in a normal thing to do....Having had two children of my own, they do rebel at some point in their lives...both mine were in their late teens....but once in their 20's they started to more adult like and rebelled less...

I had an awful time with my son...when he was 15 to 16 I could have easily given up on him, things got so bad that I kicked him out after he had gone for me with his fist...but did not hurt me, but that was enough for me to pack his stuff and throw him out.  It was an awful time, because all though I wanted to contact him, I didn't....I left the ball in his court and told him when he had left that he needed to be more responsible and that I would not have him back on his terms, but on mine.  A week later he phoned me up to ask me how I was....the call was strained and we hardly spoke to each other....but at least he had taken the steps to ring me, but still I had no apology for what he had done...Then he rang me again and asked me if he could come to see me....He came we had tears, he was sorry and we talked and talked about what had happened....for the first time I understood what he was going through.  Then the I started to blame my self.  I had become selfish, I only thought about how I was feeling and not about how he was feeling...I was grieving for my parents and had no time for anyone only me....but my poor children were grieving to....and I had overlooked this...and this is why my son did what he did...

I had also deprived him of a home with a father....and he was hurting. He didn't understand why my two of my marriages had failed....Now he knows why, he is a much better person and has come to terms with it all....He does not have anything to do with his father even though we have tried to get this to happen, its one of those things at the end of the day...my son has no feelings for him and his father has none for him....

My 2nd husband who is not my children's father my son still talks too, and so do I even though we divorced 10 years ago, we all remain friends....and that is how it should be. It could never have been this way with my 1st husband.....why I am rattling on and on I do not know....I suppose we all have to get things off our chests and it does you good to talk...about things that are build up inside of you.....Gawd! my post is nearly as long as NN's lol  :D :D :D :D

I think children can be far more resilient than we give them credit for. Far better to have one loving functioning parent than two who are constantly at each other's throats. I do feel that a line has been crossed when violence comes into play and any person faced with such a dilemma is right to leave the family unit.

Maybe Jeremy saw June's preoccupation with good works for others as selfishness. She never explained herself directly except through the heartfelt letter and by that time it was too late.

[Jane]

She didn't want Jeremy to go to jail as she had been in love with him and still part of her was. She probably realized afterwards she was facing at least a sociopath if not a psychopath when Jeremy told her at Blazer's restaurant Blackheath:"I don't feel anything for them..maybe there is something wrong with me.."

The terms "sociopath" and "psychopath" are interchangable. Only the most highly qualified and experienced psychologists could determine the subtle differences. I doubt that Julie was one of those, if she was then even GREATER shame on her for doing nothing.

[Steve_uk]

Hi Steve_uk

I believe where posters have suggested that JB may have been genuinely fond of the twins and that is why he enquired about any pending visits it might have been based on his relationship with the children of his ex partner, Suzette Ford, who said in her witness statement:

" JB v. Good with my children.  They loved him.  They still talk of him now although they haven't seen him for quite a while.  He'd play with them a lot.  He used to love playing Lego with them.  He bought them c£70 worth of Lego.  He'd take us out quite a lot as well for example to the park".

Yes but when Jeremy wanted children of his own Suzette either genuinely had miscarriages or was not pregnant in the first place. This was another turning point as Jeremy drifted into a vacuum at an age where many men would be frightened of being tied down.

There seem to be a lot of ulterior motives involved in this whole affair: Jeremy going through the motions of farming to please his parents,Jeremy attending the party to discover when the twins would be arriving at the Farm,Colin inviting Jeremy to the party so Jeremy might bring up with his parents a different treatment for Sheila,and Sheila herself going to White House reluctantly again out of monetary considerations.

I know there's not one model for families but this one did seem particularly dysfunctional.

[Jane]

Yes but when Jeremy wanted children of his own Suzette either genuinely had miscarriages or was not pregnant in the first place. This was another turning point as Jeremy drifted into a vacuum at an age where many men would be frightened of being tied down.

There seem to be a lot of ulterior motives involved in this whole affair: Jeremy going through the motions of farming to please his parents,Jeremy attending the party to discover when the twins would be arriving at the Farm,Colin inviting Jeremy to the party so Jeremy might bring up with his parents a different treatment for Sheila,and Sheila herself going to White House reluctantly again out of monetary considerations.

I know there's not one model for families but this one did seem particularly dysfunctional.

Steve, I may be wrong, but that sounds like a massive turnaround. I don't believe I've heard you say that previously.

[maggie]

Hi Steve as Colin and Jeremy were friends I would imagine he would have invited Jeremy anyway and as  friend Jeremy would have accepted probably.
There are mixed reports about whether Jeremy tolerated or enjoyed farming he certainly chose to do it in Australia

[Steve_uk]

Steve, I may be wrong, but that sounds like a massive turnaround. I don't believe I've heard you say that previously.

Well I had wondered about the effect of the miscarriages on Suzette and Jeremy and what it did to their relationship. Then along comes Sheila with not one but two babies,and as they grow Jeremy is bitter as he reminisces and begins to see them as rivals. In the end he decides on a complete new start for both himself and Colin,without of course ever asking Colin's opinion of whether he would like his sons slaughtered. But I'm not sure it was a turning point. One could equally as well say another chance to avoid the murders was dashed when Jeremy was refused for the scuba diving career.

[Alias]

There was no reason for Jeremy to shoot the poor boys with eight shots. Why would he have done that? Just to make things more difficult for himself? Two each, OK, that would make sense, but three to one and five to the other points to a frenzy killing by an unexperienced shooter, not a cold, calculated and planned for a year killing performed by an experienced shooter. Two tiny, sleeping boys - please explain this unneccessary overkill.
Apologies in advance if this has been crought up in the thread, I haven´t read it all.

[Steve_uk]

There was no reason for Jeremy to shoot the poor boys with eight shots. Why would he have done that? Just to make things more difficult for himself? Two each, OK, that would make sense, but three to one and five to the other points to a frenzy killing by an unexperienced shooter, not a cold, calculated and planned for a year killing performed by an experienced shooter. Two tiny, sleeping boys - please explain this unneccessary overkill.
Apologies in advance if this has been crought up in the thread, I haven´t read it all.

But all bullets were placed,as if by an experienced shooter,not Sheila who wouldn't know what she was doing with a rifle and would far rather paint her nails. The workings of the gun has been gone into on other threads,but I had thought it more likely two hands were used to steady the gun to keep all shots on target.

[Alias]

But all bullets were placed,as if by an experienced shooter,not Sheila who wouldn't know what she was doing with a rifle and would far rather paint her nails. The workings of the gun has been gone into on other threads,but I had thought it more likely two hands were used to steady the gun to keep all shots on target.

I still cannot see a cold, calculated murderer pumping this amount of bullets into sleeping, small children. What would his reason for doing that be?

[Jane]

There was no reason for Jeremy to shoot the poor boys with eight shots. Why would he have done that? Just to make things more difficult for himself? Two each, OK, that would make sense, but three to one and five to the other points to a frenzy killing by an unexperienced shooter, not a cold, calculated and planned for a year killing performed by an experienced shooter. Two tiny, sleeping boys - please explain this unneccessary overkill.
Apologies in advance if this has been crought up in the thread, I haven´t read it all.

You're right Alias. That's the kind of frenzy shown by someone who is scared of the person that they're shooting. What might Sheila be scared of? She was known to have said that she thought the twins wanted to rape her. She may have wanted to prevent her mother from asking God to punish her. Maybe she thought the father she worshiped would never forgive what she's done. What would Jeremy have been scared of? Other than Steve's opinion that each person left alive represented loss of his inheritance, NOTHING.

[Steve_uk]

I still cannot see a cold, calculated murderer pumping this amount of bullets into sleeping, small children. What would his reason for doing that be?

As I explained in my introductory piece the first load ammunition was likely to have been distributed thus: 7 to June to ensure she remained confined to her bed,one to Nevill to stun and similarly one each to the twins which might well have been enough to kill. Jeremy then frogmarched Nevill downstairs shooting him in the hallway leading into the kitchen leaving stains on the wallpaper,finished Nevill off as he made his last resistance grabbing for the gun,then returned upstairs pumped with adrenalin which is when the frenzy of shots to the twins took place,then one shot symbolically more than anything to June between the eyes to repay her for perceived past misdeeds,then venturing into Sheila's room.