The Relationship Between Adoptive Mother/June and Adopted Daughter/Sheila

[killingeve]

NaNu, I have to register with you that I take exception to the above comment, if only that whilst adoption may have come into other forum members lives, to my knowledge, you and I are the only two who know what it feels like to actually be adopted and whilst it in no way makes it taboo for others, it makes us the only two who are qualified to talk about our experiences of it. It's far more likely that members will shy away from the prospect of upsetting us, IMO

Hi April

Yes I agree that we are the only two who have any direct experience of adoption as far as I'm aware.  But, I suspect like most on here, I have no experience of mental illness but that doesn't prevent me from commenting on it.  Much of the stuff I've posted on adoption I only know about from reading/research.  Same for back spatter etc, etc.

[maggie]

Personally I don´t think it is the fact that June was an adoptive mother - I think the problem is that she had some heavy mental issues and probably would have created the same sort of resentment in biological children - or could have. If she had mental issues biological children would have been equally affected.
Just my take on it.

Hi Alias, it's so good to see you back.  I do think you are right and have worded it very well, adopted or natural, it can never be easy for a child to grow up with a mother who suffers with mental illness. imo

[Jane]

Personally I don´t think it is the fact that June was an adoptive mother - I think the problem is that she had some heavy mental issues and probably would have created the same sort of resentment in biological children - or could have. If she had mental issues biological children would have been equally affected.
Just my take on it.

I think there is every likelihood that you are correct, Alias. Good to have you back, by the way. I'd love to be able to say more but I don't recall experiencing being a biological child :D

[Alias]

Hi Alias, it's so good to see you back.  I do think you are right and have worded it very well, adopted or natural, it can never be easy for a child to grow up with a mother who suffers with mental illness. imo

Hi and thanks! 
I know first hand that it is difficult, very difficult, to grow up with a parent with mental issues - as a biological child.

[Alias]

Didn´t see your post, april. Thanks. 
My mother and my older sister never bonded. My mother does not like her child, it is awful, but true. Doesn´t only happen to adoptees.

[Jane]

Didn´t see your post, april. Thanks. 
My mother and my older sister never bonded. My mother does not like her child, it is awful, but true. Doesn´t only happen to adoptees.

Alias, as sad as it makes me to know that, it's actually a HUGE relief to hear it

[killingeve]

Personally I don´t think it is the fact that June was an adoptive mother - I think the problem is that she had some heavy mental issues and probably would have created the same sort of resentment in biological children - or could have. If she had mental issues biological children would have been equally affected.
Just my take on it.

Hi Alias

I would probably agree with you if it wasn't for the fact that Dr F's wit stat states that June suffered severe depressions as a result of her decision to adopt which was so severe she required in-patient psychiatric treatment.  As far as I'm aware there's no evidence of June having any mental illness prior to '59?

Ok this is a bit heavy and just my take on it but this is my opinion re June and perhaps other adoptions from the so-called baby-scoop era... Why were babies given up for adoption circa 1960's?  In the main I believe it was due to the societal stigma attached to illegitimacy/shame and all that surrounds it eg sex outside marriage, sin, deviating from the social norms of the day, going against the good Lord blah, blah.  In my adoptive family this was never an issue as my parents were fairly easy going, liberal minded, my Mum agnostic and my Dad an atheist.  If you hold strong religious beliefs, as June did, what happens to all this potential stigma/shame?  Does it just disappear with the adoption court order which legally gives the adopted baby/child the same rights as a biological child and in the eyes of the law makes the baby/child legitimate, or does it manifest in unhealthy ways?  Imo I believe with June it could be the latter.  This I believe is borne out by the following:

June's mental illness '59 - Difficulty accepting illegitimacy due to her strong religious beliefs? - see link below:

http://www.originsnsw.com/mentalhealth/id5.html

"Mc Whinnie also refers to her study about the conditions of religious affiliation for prospective adopters. Her study again shows that other factors are important here, and it should not be assumed that because the adopters are members of a church they would make sympathetic adopters. In fact it would seem important to assess particularly carefully the attitudes of those who hold very rigid religious beliefs since these, if unduly puritanical, might lead them to finding difficulty in accepting illegitimacy and the child born to unmarried parents",

June's mental illness '82 - Difficulty in accepting SC's divorce and SC and JB having sexual relationships outside of marraige?  All of this was of course enitrely normal for the era and no doubt had June have had birth children she would have found the same with them.  Yet I can't help but think that June may have thought that SC and JB had bad blood/wild genes, whereas in reality they were just doing what any other young person did in that era. 

I'm beginning to feel a tad embarrassed as my posts are so damn long 

[killingeve]

Didn´t see your post, april. Thanks. 
My mother and my older sister never bonded. My mother does not like her child, it is awful, but true. Doesn´t only happen to adoptees.

Thanks for sharing these insights on the forum.

I have no experience of mental illnes with family members - I'm sure it must be difficult to have a parent with such an affliction and a double whammy for SC and JB being adopted and having an adoptive mother with mental illness   

[tyler]

Gosh,I remember what a shock to the system the birth of my first child was back in 1990,and I had had 9 months in which to bond with my child beforehand! How must it have been for June,who wasn't given any counselling or support and very probably didn't have much experience of babies,to suddenly be given somebody elses and expected to love it? I get the impression with June that she managed perfectly with the practical side of rearing children,but failed hopelessly with regards to the emotional side. This appeared evident in lots of ways,for instance when June first saw the twins in hospital. There was no hug for her daughter,or kind words/praise for what she had just achieved. There was no fancy wedding for Sheila either. As punishment for getting pregnant,she had to make do with a register office and wasn't allowed a white dress! The week of the murders would have been the first time that Sheila had seen June since the meeting with her real mother? Allegedly,Sheila liked her biological mother immensely. I imagine that Sheila was struggling with many emotions that week.

[lookout]

You've only to look at the latest sadness involving Paris Jackson ( Michael Jacksons' daughter ) who met her biological mother and they more or less immediately bonded. Paris also loved her father,,odd as he was,which reflected on Paris's formative years of growing up. The girl must have borne a lot of confusion and emotional issues to have attempted suicide,,which was a call for help. Another beautiful girl with a brilliant future before her,,but it would seem that it's not enough.
Paris must be torn between " having it all " or living the simple,but normal life with her birth mother to whom she showed affection for.
Paris's " behaviour " came out of the blue,,as one minute she appeared elated on video,demonstrating make-up and how to apply it,,then hours later,ended up in hospital. This is a very delicate stage of growing up,and unless her situation can be resolved,,she too will be on a downward spiral.

[maggie]

Hi tyler you are so right. I shall never forget the shock of being handed a child and being left to cope with someone you wanted more than anyone in the world and having to deal without support with a screaming baby who wouldn't sleep.. I can understand all too well how emotionally difficult it could have been for June. I wonder if she was more disappointed with herself than with her baby.
Its probable  Dr Ferguson knew very little about the emotional effects of adoption on a woman,  female hormones and emotions were still a mystery to men in the 1960s and not much better in the 1980s. A natural mother has hormones released into her body at birth to help her cope, she has been prepared by carrying her baby in her own body for nine months, an adoptive mother has probably been through all kinds of trauma and adoption is the thing she's dreamed of but nothing is as simple in reality as it is in our dreams.
We accept some natural mothers suffer post natal depression and have difficulty bonding, we
have no idea what effects are caused on a susceptible adoptive mum who struggles to bond with the baby shes longed for. Imo 

[killingeve]

Hi Tyler, Lookout and Maggie

I agree with much of what you've posted above and I think more should of been made of this at JB's trial ie June's mental illness '59 and '82 and SC's reunion with her birth mother only weeks before the tragedy at WHF.  I do also wonder about June's mental state between '59 and '82    I don't see all of this just being a coincidence.

[Jane]

Hi Tyler, Lookout and Maggie

I agree with much of what you've posted above and I think more should of been made of this at JB's trial ie June's mental illness '59 and '82 and SC's reunion with her birth mother only weeks before the tragedy at WHF.  I do also wonder about June's mental state between '59 and '82    I don't see all of this just being a coincidence.

NaNu, I believe Dr F claimed that June failed to conceive because of the removal of an ovary/ovarian cyst. This on it's own doesn't prevent conception. A friend was found to need a cyst removed from an ovary and during the operation it was discovered that she was pregnant. Not only did the pregnacy develop to healthy term, she went on to have three more babies. Could the cyst, like my mother's diseased bone, have been the explanation given for not having babies. I find it hard to believe that the decision to adopt was the reason for June's first breakdown, but I would believe that a refusal of the request to adopt may have been.

[maggie]

Hi April, it is true that a benign ovarian cyst would not cause an inabilty to have babies. It could in some cases cause the loss of one ovary but would leave another. If June had some malignancy in the cyst or maybe cysts then it is a completely different story. We dont know the real story of June's problems imo  I am a bit of an expert on this subject

[Jane]

Hi April, it is true that a benign ovarian cyst would not cause an inabilty to have babies. It could in some cases cause the loss of one ovary but would leave another. If June had some malignancy in the cyst or maybe cysts then it is a completely different story. We dont know the real story of June's problems imo

Maggie, HI. I was really just picking up on Dr F's words. IMO, it was a sweeping statement and sounds as if he made no corelation between the removal of the cyst/ovary and her mental health. Perhaps he was trying to get away from Freud's belief that the uterus was the seat of hysteria.