The Relationship Between Adoptive Mother/June and Adopted Daughter/Sheila

[killingeve]

Good morning April,,the fact of the matter was that Junes' doctor at the time had told her that she was unable to ever conceive,and June took the news very badly,so bad in fact,that she had to go into a private psychiatric clinic suffering from depression. It took months before June was anywhere near recovered,,only for her to relapse again after adopting Jeremy.
June and Neville hadn't experienced any parenting skills,,and because the children were adopted,it was still at the back of Junes' thoughts that she'd been a failure not to have had her own children,,that so much so,these thoughts took over her life and she had many sessions with the psychiatrist.
I think that Junes' wish to have children came from the fact that her sister had had her children to make up a family,,so she herself saw something that she too wanted,,and when it wasn't to be,that's when Junes' troubles started.
Obviously I don't know the full reason for Junes' news of not being able to conceive,unless the ovaries were polycystic or that she'd had surgery,,oophorectomy,removal of both.

Hi Lookout

I wasn't aware that June had a relapse after adopting JB?  Well not until '82.  Is that what you mean?

[Steve_uk]

Hi Alias

I would probably agree with you if it wasn't for the fact that Dr F's wit stat states that June suffered severe depressions as a result of her decision to adopt which was so severe she required in-patient psychiatric treatment.  As far as I'm aware there's no evidence of June having any mental illness prior to '59?

Ok this is a bit heavy and just my take on it but this is my opinion re June and perhaps other adoptions from the so-called baby-scoop era... Why were babies given up for adoption circa 1960's?  In the main I believe it was due to the societal stigma attached to illegitimacy/shame and all that surrounds it eg sex outside marriage, sin, deviating from the social norms of the day, going against the good Lord blah, blah.  In my adoptive family this was never an issue as my parents were fairly easy going, liberal minded, my Mum agnostic and my Dad an atheist.  If you hold strong religious beliefs, as June did, what happens to all this potential stigma/shame?  Does it just disappear with the adoption court order which legally gives the adopted baby/child the same rights as a biological child and in the eyes of the law makes the baby/child legitimate, or does it manifest in unhealthy ways?  Imo I believe with June it could be the latter.  This I believe is borne out by the following:

June's mental illness '59 - Difficulty accepting illegitimacy due to her strong religious beliefs? - see link below:

http://www.originsnsw.com/mentalhealth/id5.html

"Mc Whinnie also refers to her study about the conditions of religious affiliation for prospective adopters. Her study again shows that other factors are important here, and it should not be assumed that because the adopters are members of a church they would make sympathetic adopters. In fact it would seem important to assess particularly carefully the attitudes of those who hold very rigid religious beliefs since these, if unduly puritanical, might lead them to finding difficulty in accepting illegitimacy and the child born to unmarried parents",

June's mental illness '82 - Difficulty in accepting SC's divorce and SC and JB having sexual relationships outside of marraige?  All of this was of course enitrely normal for the era and no doubt had June have had birth children she would have found the same with them.  Yet I can't help but think that June may have thought that SC and JB had bad blood/wild genes, whereas in reality they were just doing what any other young person did in that era. 

I'm beginning to feel a tad embarrassed as my posts are so damn long 

It's difficult to get to the nub of this even with a textbook analysis in front of us that churchgoers do not necessarily make the best adopters. Had June first and foremost desired an heir to the farm she would surely have adopted a son first and likewise with Nevill one might have thought had this been the driving force he would have put his foot down on this issue. It seems to me they both drifted into the adoption issue for whatever reason-the social stigma of being childless or coming back to that cold,empty farmhouse at the end of the day with nothing but shop to talk about. That fateful decision to send both children away to boarding school whilst done with the best of intentions compounded their feeling of alienation and bewilderment with neither children cementing lifelong friendships with their peers. We are told Sheila did odd jobs for Ann Eaton at Oak Farm and this would be at June's behest,though the interesting thing to me is that Sheila actually went,reinforcing my idea that she was an easily-led,tractable girl who had no malicious intent and bore no grudges. Yet we are told by Jeremy that Sheila had done some nasty things to him in the past which are not specified in his conversation with Julie,and which I find difficult to believe of Sheila. Sheila became the 1 in 100 people who develop schizophrenia but this was not caused by June,though it may have been exacerbated by their relationship. Yet Sheila again did not appear to seek any kind of revenge on her mother,she did not rub it in when meeting her birth mother but asked Ann Eaton to photograph her so as to spare June's feelings,suggesting to me that Sheila did not want to rock the boat.

I think Sheila saw through her mother by the end of her life,was still obedient and did not regard her as any kind of threat. I agree with Dr Ferguson's statement that Sheila would not have committed suicide because she had too much to live for.

[Jane]

It's difficult to get to the nub of this even with a textbook analysis in front of us that churchgoers do not necessarily make the best adopters. Had June first and foremost desired an heir to the farm she would surely have adopted a son first and likewise with Nevill one might have thought had this been the driving force he would have put his foot down on this issue. It seems to me they both drifted into the adoption issue for whatever reason-the social stigma of being childless or coming back to that cold,empty farmhouse at the end of the day with nothing but shop to talk about. That fateful decision to send both children away to boarding school whilst done with the best of intentions compounded their feeling of alienation and bewilderment with neither children cementing lifelong friendships with their peers. We are told Sheila did odd jobs for Ann Eaton at Oak Farm and this would be at June's behest,though the interesting thing to me is that Sheila actually went,reinforcing my idea that she was an easily-led,tractable girl who had no malicious intent and bore no grudges. Yet we are told by Jeremy that Sheila had done some nasty things to him in the past which are not specified in his conversation with Julie,and which I find difficult to believe of Sheila. Sheila became the 1 in 100 people who develop schizophrenia but this was not caused by June,though it may have been exacerbated by their relationship. Yet Sheila again did not appear to seek any kind of revenge on her mother,she did not rub it in when meeting her birth mother but asked Ann Eaton to photograph her so as to spare June's feelings,suggesting to me that Sheila did not want to rock the boat.

I think Sheila saw through her mother by the end of her life,was still obedient and did not regard her as any kind of threat. I agree with Dr Ferguson's statement that Sheila would not have committed suicide because she had too much to live for.

It was Dr F's view that Sheila had too much to live for to commit suicide, but he had his last conversation with her a full 18 weeks prior to her death, during which time her hopes for reconciliation with Colin came to nothing and her hopes for a relationship with her biological mother amounted to little more than ships which pass in the night. Both of these may have dashed her hopes of finally breaking free from the emotional confines of her adoptive parents, especially her mother to whom it sounds as if she was still responding to as if she was still a child.

[Steve_uk]

It was Dr F's view that Sheila had too much to live for to commit suicide, but he had his last conversation with her a full 18 weeks prior to her death, during which time her hopes for reconciliation with Colin came to nothing and her hopes for a relationship with her biological mother amounted to little more than ships which pass in the night. Both of these may have dashed her hopes of finally breaking free from the emotional confines of her adoptive parents, especially her mother to whom it sounds as if she was still responding to as if she was still a child.

It's difficult to analyse just what was going through Sheila's mind those last few weeks but we do know from her conversation with Helen Grimster that she had considered suicide,though concomitant with that goes the remark that she had a better relationship with Colin because of the divorce. With all the paraphernalia on one of the beds in Sheila's room it looks to me as though she liked to make herself up and look pretty,and of course Jeremy would have seen the layout of the upstairs sleeping arrangements as the last thing he would want is the twins sleeping in Sheila's bedroom. As far as Sheila's paternal relationships are concerned I don't believe she was concerned any more about June's opinion of anything,and the cynics might say that if she really disliked her parents all she had to do was to play for time knowing that she would be well-provided for.

[maggie]

It was Dr F's view that Sheila had too much to live for to commit suicide, but he had his last conversation with her a full 18 weeks prior to her death, during which time her hopes for reconciliation with Colin came to nothing and her hopes for a relationship with her biological mother amounted to little more than ships which pass in the night. Both of these may have dashed her hopes of finally breaking free from the emotional confines of her adoptive parents, especially her mother to whom it sounds as if she was still responding to as if she was still a child.

April, I find Dr F's view that Sheila had too much to live for really strange because as a psychiatrist he surely was aware that schizophrenics can kill themselves on a whim if psychotic.  A friend of mine went home from a good day out, greeted her parents in a completely normal way and said she was going for a bath.  They found her unconscious and almost drowned n the bath 20 minutes later.  Absolutely no reason for her to kill herself.

[lookout]

April, I find Dr F's view that Sheila had too much to live for really strange because as a psychiatrist he surely was aware that schizophrenics can kill themselves on a whim if psychotic.  A friend of mine went home from a good day out, greeted her parents in a completely normal way and said she was going for a bath.  They found her unconscious and almost drowned n the bath 20 minutes later.  Absolutely no reason for her to kill herself.

Hi Maggie,,sadly quite a few suicides end that way where the person usually gives the opposite indication beforehand,rather than being morose,,thus allaying any suspicion that their death is imminent.

[Jane]

It's difficult to analyse just what was going through Sheila's mind those last few weeks but we do know from her conversation with Helen Grimster that she had considered suicide,though concomitant with that goes the remark that she had a better relationship with Colin because of the divorce. With all the paraphernalia on one of the beds in Sheila's room it looks to me as though she liked to make herself up and look pretty,and of course Jeremy would have seen the layout of the upstairs sleeping arrangements as the last thing he would want is the twins sleeping in Sheila's bedroom. As far as Sheila's paternal relationships are concerned I don't believe she was concerned any more about June's opinion of anything,and the cynics might say that if she really disliked her parents all she had to do was to play for time knowing that she would be well-provided for.

You overly empower Jeremy. How do you think he was going to alter their sleeping arrangements when it wasn't even his house and I'm not certain how it would tie in with  the paraphernalia on the bed other than she liked to spread her things around her. In a house of that size there would have been no need for them all to be in one room. Like you I have never seen a cynical or vindictive Sheila and certainly not a farsighted one.

[maggie]

Hi Maggie,,sadly quite a few suicides end that way where the person usually gives the opposite indication beforehand,rather than being morose,,thus allaying any suspicion that their death is imminent.

Exactly so why would Dr F say she had too much to live for, it seems to me an irrational statement when dealing with someone suffering with psychosis.
 It has nothing to do with having too much or too little to live for it's about the condition of a psychotic persons mind at the time. at the time.

[Jane]

April, I find Dr F's view that Sheila had too much to live for really strange because as a psychiatrist he surely was aware that schizophrenics can kill themselves on a whim if psychotic.  A friend of mine went home from a good day out, greeted her parents in a completely normal way and said she was going for a bath.  They found her unconscious and almost drowned n the bath 20 minutes later.  Absolutely no reason for her to kill herself.

Maggie, he didn't even have the good grace to add the rider that he hadn't seen or spoken with her for 18 weeks. Nor did he give details about the cock up with her meds.

[lookout]

Exactly so why would Dr F say she had too much to live for, it seems to me an irrational statement when dealing with someone suffering with psychosis.
 It has nothing to do with having too much or too little to live for it's about the condition of a psychotic persons mind at the time. at the time.

Because,,Maggie,,he knew nothing about the illness. I mean,,they know very little now,years later. They can't even " read minds ",if you get my meaning.

[maggie]

Because,,Maggie,,he knew nothing about the illness. I mean,,they know very little now,years later. They can't even " read minds ",if you get my meaning.

I know they don't know much about it even now but surely there were enough examples of psychotic suicide or attempted suicide for a psychiatrist to know in 1985 that there was always a danger of Sheila attempting suicide. Hard to believe.  

[lookout]

I know they don't know much about it even now but surely there were enough examples of psychotic suicide or attempted suicide for a psychiatrist to know in 1985 that there was always a danger of Sheila attempting suicide. Hard to believe.

It just wasn't known about really in 1985,Maggie,,or suspicions would certainly have been aroused about the WHF tragedy with what we know today.

[killingeve]

It's difficult to get to the nub of this even with a textbook analysis in front of us that churchgoers do not necessarily make the best adopters. Had June first and foremost desired an heir to the farm she would surely have adopted a son first and likewise with Nevill one might have thought had this been the driving force he would have put his foot down on this issue. It seems to me they both drifted into the adoption issue for whatever reason-the social stigma of being childless or coming back to that cold,empty farmhouse at the end of the day with nothing but shop to talk about. That fateful decision to send both children away to boarding school whilst done with the best of intentions compounded their feeling of alienation and bewilderment with neither children cementing lifelong friendships with their peers. We are told Sheila did odd jobs for Ann Eaton at Oak Farm and this would be at June's behest,though the interesting thing to me is that Sheila actually went,reinforcing my idea that she was an easily-led,tractable girl who had no malicious intent and bore no grudges. Yet we are told by Jeremy that Sheila had done some nasty things to him in the past which are not specified in his conversation with Julie,and which I find difficult to believe of Sheila. Sheila became the 1 in 100 people who develop schizophrenia but this was not caused by June,though it may have been exacerbated by their relationship. Yet Sheila again did not appear to seek any kind of revenge on her mother,she did not rub it in when meeting her birth mother but asked Ann Eaton to photograph her so as to spare June's feelings,suggesting to me that Sheila did not want to rock the boat.

I think Sheila saw through her mother by the end of her life,was still obedient and did not regard her as any kind of threat. I agree with Dr Ferguson's statement that Sheila would not have committed suicide because she had too much to live for.

Hi Steve

I think June's request to AE was for her to teach SC to cook and find her some chores.  SC may have welcomed a break from WHF/June and found the atmosphere at Oak Farm/Eatons easier and/or it might have been to earn some pocket money.  In any event I don't really see any reason why SC would object?  It's the sort of things girls like doing at a certain age along with spending time with an older cousin.  The interesting thing is why couldn't June teach SC to cook and find her some chores.  SC spent some 40/52 weeks away at boarding school so surely June would have welcomed some time to spend with SC?

If any "nasty things" took place it sounds like typical infantile sibling quarrels.  CC states in his wit stat "Sheila was very highly strung and during arguments she would become very violent"  Also "She would aslo be violent towards me and smash up my prize possessions".

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=153.0;attach=124

We do not know what caused SC's schizophrenia: genetics, environment or combi.  Rufus May, clinical psychologist and schizophrenic, understands his psychotic experiences as a reaction to experiences of emotional loss and social isolation and based on my initial post and everything else I've read about SC I think she may have felt the same.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rufus_May

I have recently posted about the Stefan Kiszko MoJ.  Stefan suffered terribly in prison and developed schizophrenia.  Could this have been brought on solely by his ordeal?  I think it's highly likely.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Lesley_Molseed

As far as I'm aware most adoptees from the so called baby scoop era/'closed' adoptions are discreet about reunions with birth parents.  AE said she assumed SC asked her to take the photo to spare June's feelings.  Imo it would be a case of SC simply feeling uncomfortable broaching the subject of adoption/birth parents with June as this is the way 'closed' adoptions were socially engineered.  Anyway I understand from a reliable source that June was eventually aware of the reunion.

Dr F states SC would not have committed suicide as she enjoyed life too much.  As April has said much changed in the last few weeks of SC's life, not least meeting her birth mother.  Also there's much evidence that adoptees are at greater risk of suicide than their non-adopted peers.  Did Dr F take this into account?

http://www.virtualmedicalcentre.com/news/exploring-links-between-past-adoptions-and-suicide/13426

[Steve_uk]

You overly empower Jeremy. How do you think he was going to alter their sleeping arrangements when it wasn't even his house and I'm not certain how it would tie in with  the paraphernalia on the bed other than she liked to spread her things around her. In a house of that size there would have been no need for them all to be in one room. Like you I have never seen a cynical or vindictive Sheila and certainly not a farsighted one.

I was getting at the cosmetics taking up room on the bed which might preclude either Nicholas or Daniel sleeping there on a rare occasion one of them was ill or had a nightmare or some other reason why they might not be in their beds lying like sitting ducks for Jeremy to kill them. Whilst doing some research for a new thread I had in mind I came across this one which might give a little more insight as to June's persona vis a vis her previous bouts of mental illness.http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2238.30.html