Author Topic: How to combat "bias" in chosen, trial judges - Mike Tesko's law...  (Read 4529 times)

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jim ignatowski

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If you are a police officer I accept you will have up to date information about current arrangements for the CPS at court.  Do you go to the CCC?
Hi NGB
I've only been to CCC on one occasion and that was many decades ago
jim

[edited to fix quote]
« Last Edit: May 06, 2013, 03:09:PM by ngb1066 »

Offline mike tesko

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The more I think about it, therre should only be two trial judges, one in favour of guilt, the other in favour of innocence, and the jury should be the judges of fact, as argued by both judges...

Mike Tesko's Law - it makes sense for a trial, to be fair...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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The more I think about it, therre should only be two trial judges, one in favour of guilt, the other in favour of innocence, and the jury should be the judges of fact, as argued by both judges...

Mike Tesko's Law - it makes sense for a trial, to be fair...

Not bias...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Furthermore, I advocate that all witness statements should be recorded, so that it can be seen what questions were being asked, and answers given, at each step of the way, to counter the practice ofd police officers putting words into the mouths of witnesses...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

mertol22

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Ive always held mike as British law as insane outdated and in need of change , why cant a judge come from the dirt and earned their place like coming from a council estate, why cant they take a wage of £15000 a year , judges are useless and live in another world to me like them or hate them i believe North Korean justice is harsh swift and the way to administer real justice.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2013, 11:48:PM by mertol22 »

jim ignatowski

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Ive always held mike as British law as insane outdated and in need of change , why cant a judge come from the dirt and earned their place like coming from a council estate, why cant they take a wage of £15000 a year , judges are useless and live in another world to me like them or hate them i believe North Korean justice is harsh swift and the way to administer real justice.
hi mertol
And what do you suppose would have happened to a certain mr bamber if his trial had taken place in Korea ?
Oh, the irony
Jim
« Last Edit: May 06, 2013, 11:59:PM by jim ignatowski »

Offline petey

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Ive always held mike as British law as insane outdated and in need of change , why cant a judge come from the dirt and earned their place like coming from a council estate, why cant they take a wage of £15000 a year , judges are useless and live in another world to me like them or hate them i believe North Korean justice is harsh swift and the way to administer real justice.

What a quite ridiculous statement.

On what experience of judges and the legal system are you basing your insight? Personal or working experience?

Are you aware of the years and years of training and dedication it takes to become a judge in England, Do you think that people should pursue this career path, often making numerous sacrifices along the way to reach their goal, then be 'rewarded' with a salary of £15,000?! What kind of world do you live in?!

Offline killingeve

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Ive always held mike as British law as insane outdated and in need of change , why cant a judge come from the dirt and earned their place like coming from a council estate, why cant they take a wage of £15000 a year , judges are useless and live in another world to me like them or hate them i believe North Korean justice is harsh swift and the way to administer real justice.

Hi Mertol

Perhaps there are lots of misconceptions about judges  :-\  The following book is good:

http://www.amazon.com/Sitting-Judgment-Working-Lives-Judges/dp/1849462399/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1367906240&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=sitting+in+judgement+penny+darbyshire

Offline Jo

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Ive always held mike as British law as insane outdated and in need of change , why cant a judge come from the dirt and earned their place like coming from a council estate, why cant they take a wage of £15000 a year , judges are useless and live in another world to me like them or hate them i believe North Korean justice is harsh swift and the way to administer real justice.

I see where you're coming from, I think thats what we have jury members for.
The locals round here do 'administer' their own justice if and when they deem it necessary.

Offline Jane

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I see where you're coming from, I think thats what we have jury members for.
The locals round here do 'administer' their own justice if and when they deem it necessary.


The making of rules and administering of justice is not a straightforward as it may seem. Several years ago I did a course entitled "Crime, Justice and Society" during which we were broken up into groups and each group was given a list of crimes which we were asked to judge. After a set time we reconvened to deliver our findings. I was elected as spokesperson for my group and was first to take the stage. With much embarrassment, I had to confess that we hadn't been able to reach any decision. There was an audible sigh of relief. It seemed than none of the other groups had come to a mutual conclusion, either. We were a very eclectic group comprising journalists, magistrates and probation officers and those of us who were interested bystanders. One group member, who said very little, turned out to be a VERY high ranking police officer who was interviewed a few weeks later when it appeared our national security was thought to be under threat. I'm of the opinion that our judicial system hasn't moved any further forward from where it was when I attended that course in 1991.

Offline killingeve

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The making of rules and administering of justice is not a straightforward as it may seem. Several years ago I did a course entitled "Crime, Justice and Society" during which we were broken up into groups and each group was given a list of crimes which we were asked to judge. After a set time we reconvened to deliver our findings. I was elected as spokesperson for my group and was first to take the stage. With much embarrassment, I had to confess that we hadn't been able to reach any decision. There was an audible sigh of relief. It seemed than none of the other groups had come to a mutual conclusion, either. We were a very eclectic group comprising journalists, magistrates and probation officers and those of us who were interested bystanders. One group member, who said very little, turned out to be a VERY high ranking police officer who was interviewed a few weeks later when it appeared our national security was thought to be under threat. I'm of the opinion that our judicial system hasn't moved any further forward from where it was when I attended that course in 1991.

Morning April

I would judge a crime by the impact it has on others eg victims  :)

Offline susan

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Morning april

I think I would judge a crime on the evidence infront of me and my own gut feeling and the actions of witnesses but of course you would not have that in your experiment.

Offline Jane

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Morning april

I think I would judge a crime on the evidence infront of me and my own gut feeling and the actions of witnesses but of course you would not have that in your experiment.
Morning April

I would judge a crime by the impact it has on others eg victims  :)


Ladies, good afternoon :) Excellent solutions from you both BUT the were 8-10 people in each group and trying to convince all of them to go with ANY course of action was not possible. A bit like this forum, really, eh girls :)

Offline susan

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Hello april

very difficult to get a group of people to agree.  I have given this some thought and suspect I would be a nighmare on a Jury especially if my other half was on it as well a unanimous decision would never be reached ;D ;D ;D ;D

Offline mike tesko

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Basically, what I am saying, is that the system of trial by jury needs to be changed so that trials are much more fairer, because at the moment there is a great deal of bias depending upon which trial judge you get - I can clearly remember Michael Mansfield, QC, commenting on two of the three appeal court judges who heard my appeal, he said we were up against it, because two of the judges who sat in judgement at my appeal were pro police, who would not accept any allegation of dishonesty and deceipt on the part of the police. He told me this and other things before we even set foot into the court of appeal, so nobody can ever hope to convince me that fiddling of case judgements doesn,t go on, because it does, and it did...

This bias could be eradicated at the stroke of a pen, if for example, two judges sat on the bench during trials, where one judge sided with the prosecutions arguments against the accused, and sought to interpret all the available evidence in favour of guilt, whilst the other judge sided with defence arguments and sought to interpret all the available evidence in favour of an acquital. At the end of a case, both judges would present a biased summing up to the jury, where one favours a conviction, whilst the other favours an acquital...

Trials should be fair, not biased...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...