Jeremy Bamber: the Prelude, the Tragedy and the Aftermath

[maggie]

I'm glad that is the case for you, David.

It isn't odd. It's empathy.

I know it doesn't resonate with all adoptees but that doesn't mean it doesn't have something to say.  If things are fine, that's wonderful and absolutely the way it should be.  I think maybe it wouldn't hurt for adoptive parents to read it before they adopt because it covers all areas.. adoptive parents, natural mother and adoptive children and as parents we need to know the right answers to various questions and understand the complexities. but it's up to the individual . 
My children both read a few pages and said it didn't speak to them which is fine so I read it and found it fascinating, so that may say something about m  e.  :)Problems can begin when adoptees meet their natural mothers or a very close and loved relative dies but I feel I may sound as if I'm preaching and I really do't mean to. 

[Steve_uk]

i don't agree completey with that Steve. There is the ld question of Nature and Nurture and it is true that nature is very strong in all of us, however if a baby who bonds well with their replacement mother and grows up in a very secure and loving home they can grow very like their mother.  They can be perfectly happy and at ease in that family unit, their problems come in different areas which can cause feelings of unexplained anxiety and stress.
An adoptive process and bonding is a two way process... the mother has to want and love the baby whoever that baby is, she must give every ounce of herself to the child and always put them first and never, ever even think they don't come first, they don't 'fit in', they should be thankful  etc.  It is a life commitment which makes a mother completely vulnerable to another human being but I believe that is the only way.  It is in fact good parenting but being aware every day how lucky you are to have your beautiful child.

Don't think the Bamber's understood the needs of their children at all, the fact they sent them to boarding school at such young ages speaks volumes.  No one would ever have made me send my children away at 8 years of age or any other time, I would have killed to keep them.

On that last point I'm sure there were excellent fee paying schools in the vicinity of White House Farm, which does make me wonder about the Bambers' motives in selecting schools they knew very little about irrespective of distance.

As for adoption, Colin in his book writes of the Bambers seeing their children as dolls rather than individuals with human emotions, even though they may have thought in their own way they were doing their best and all would turn out right in the end(in CAL's book there's an incident where June doesn't intervene in a garden row because the Adoption Agency might find out). In my own case when I reminisce the relative whom I most resembled in looks and temperament was my paternal grandfather, whom I barely recollect, but when I heard stories later in life I could empathize. Fortunately I had a strong, loving mother who made up for my rather strange birth father, but then again when I was very small you don't realize the sacrifices and the strain it takes on adults to earn a living to provide. Quite often parents like June who realized too late that they may have made a hash of it (which is what the heartfelt letter written by her was all about) try to compensate with their grandchildren, which tragically worked against Jeremy as he wasn't emotionally confident enough to deal with the love and praise lavished by his parents on the twins.

[maggie]

On that last point I'm sure there were excellent fee paying schools in the vicinity of White House Farm, which does make me wonder about the Bambers' motives in selecting schools they knew very little about irrespective of distance.

As for adoption, Colin in his book writes of the Bambers seeing their children as dolls rather than individuals with human emotions, even though they may have thought in their own way they were doing their best and all would turn out right in the end(in CAL's book there's an incident where June doesn't intervene in a garden row because the Adoption Agency might find out). In my own case when I reminisce the relative whom I most resembled in looks and temperament was my paternal grandfather, whom I barely recollect, but when I heard stories later in life I could empathize. Fortunately I had a strong, loving mother who made up for my rather strange birth father, but then again when I was very small you don't realize the sacrifices and the strain it takes on adults to earn a living to provide. Quite often parents like June who realized too late that they may have made a hash of it (which is what the heartfelt letter written by her was all about) try to compensate with their grandchildren, which tragically worked against Jeremy as he wasn't emotionally confident enough to deal with the love and praise lavished by his parents on the twins.

I guess that was the problem, you have to immerse yourself with your children, nowadays adoptive parents are taught how to introduce adoption to children when they are really young.  The best way can be to give them photos in a little album which are relevant o their history and talk to them about it before they understand what it means and they just grow up knowing they are adopted.  It seems to work and is much better than having to one day sit down with your children and tell them that they are adopted.  That must be horrendously confusing and bewildering to a child.   In their confusion they must feel rejected, second best and out of control, it's as if they have been living a lie all their lives....  awful.

[Jane]

On that last point I'm sure there were excellent fee paying schools in the vicinity of White House Farm, which does make me wonder about the Bambers' motives in selecting schools they knew very little about irrespective of distance.

As for adoption, Colin in his book writes of the Bambers seeing their children as dolls rather than individuals with human emotions, even though they may have thought in their own way they were doing their best and all would turn out right in the end(in CAL's book there's an incident where June doesn't intervene in a garden row because the Adoption Agency might find out). In my own case when I reminisce the relative whom I most resembled in looks and temperament was my paternal grandfather, whom I barely recollect, but when I heard stories later in life I could empathize. Fortunately I had a strong, loving mother who made up for my rather strange birth father, but then again when I was very small you don't realize the sacrifices and the strain it takes on adults to earn a living to provide. Quite often parents like June who realized too late that they may have made a hash of it (which is what the heartfelt letter written by her was all about) try to compensate with their grandchildren, which tragically worked against Jeremy as he wasn't emotionally confident enough to deal with the love and praise lavished by his parents on the twins.

There was certainly a good choice of more local boarding schools for boys but a dearth of those for girls, my own being one of those many which closed.

Interesting that Colin says he thought the Bambers saw their children as dolls. I was encouraged to write  down my childhood experiences and in so doing I refer to myself as "The doll thing" because that is how I perceived myself as being.

I have the feeling that many parents find grandparenting MUCH easier than parenting and are far more relaxed with it.

[David1819]

I'm glad that is the case for you, David.

It isn't odd. It's empathy.

How can she have empathy if she has not experienced it herself? sympathy may be a more suitable term.

There are some people out there who are adopted and don't even know they are. Its all psychological

[Jane]

How can she have empathy if she has not experienced it herself? sympathy may be a more suitable term.

There are some people out there who are adopted and don't even know they are. Its all psychological

Quite obviously counselling isn't one of your many talents. There is a chasm of difference between sympathy and empathy. I won't have experienced a fraction of the problems bought to me but I need empathy to support them. Empathy is the ability to stand outside of oneself and allow another the space to have their own feelings.

I agree, strange as it may be, that there are still those who don't know that they're adopted. Which isn't to say that they feel they fit into their world. Unless they have the tools to express it, how can we know? Our psychology is what makes us who we are. How fitting then that you describe it as being "all psychology".

[Steve_uk]

How can she have empathy if she has not experienced it herself? sympathy may be a more suitable term.

There are some people out there who are adopted and don't even know they are. Its all psychological

But given that we have 50% DNA each from our parents it would be logical to think we had something in common with them.

[maggie]

But given that we have 50% DNA each from our parents it would be logical to think we had something in common with them.

Fact is Steve that I have many things in common with both my daughters and they have many things in common with each other, so it doesn't really follow.  I believe as I said the trick is to be involved with your children, whether natural or adopted.

[Steve_uk]

Fact is Steve that I have many things in common with both my daughters and they have many things in common with each other, so it doesn't really follow.  I believe as I said the trick is to be involved with your children, whether natural or adopted.

Well I agree that there is a nature versus nurture debate as you can get on a parent's wavelength if they are constantly putting themselves out for you. Unfortunately with June and Jeremy this just wasn't the case. Adopted children also miss out on their natural grandparents which can be a real shame.

[lookout]

Well I agree that there is a nature versus nurture debate as you can get on a parent's wavelength if they are constantly putting themselves out for you. Unfortunately with June and Jeremy this just wasn't the case. Adopted children also miss out on their natural grandparents which can be a real shame.

Steve,I never knew both sets of my g/parents. They either died before I was born ( to which I  know mum's mum did as she herself was only 10 when her mother died ) or they died during my very former years. Nobody spoke about them,or if so,it was a touch of the Les Dawson's with miming it. So I missed out with grannies and granddads.

[lookout]

The only survivor I have who would know mum's side is in a nursing home on the Isle of Man and he doesn't know if it's Christmas Day or Pancake Tuesday.

[Steve_uk]

I think the lower rates of crime in the Mediterranean countries can be traced back to the concept of the extended family.

[lookout]

 It can be traced back to this country too the majority of the time. Some places in the Mediterranean have such laxed laws that allow the criminal element to base themselves there before scarpering onwards to richer pickings. It's not only peculiar to extended families either.

[maggie]

Well I agree that there is a nature versus nurture debate as you can get on a parent's wavelength if they are constantly putting themselves out for you. Unfortunately with June and Jeremy this just wasn't the case. Adopted children also miss out on their natural grandparents which can be a real shame.

With respect Steve I cannot agree with you.

I have a perfectly normal loving and healthy relationship with my children, far more so than many natural parents and they adored my parents and my parents were fantastic grandparents who loved them completely.

You are making sweeping statements about adoptive relationships, I would not deny what you suggest may happen but I would bet the problems are much deeper than just not having anything in common with members of your family. 

Of course some adoptive children do not gel with their parents and I would guess that imo would be the parents fault in baby adoptions for not providing the necessary bonding and nconditional love which is necessary in all mother/father/baby relationships. 

In a well bonded adoptive or natural family where the child is at the centre of the family any problems due to adoption would come from outside the family as they grow and develop not within the family. in any family setting if the gel of love is strong most things can be overcome.

IMO in a happy family the stresses and strains and differences are more about changes in morals etc between the generations rather than anything else and are completely normal in any family situation.

The particular problems in the Bamber family seemed to stem from the fact that the relationship between Sheila and Jeremy and their parents appears to have been highly dysfunctional.  The lack of bonding and unconditional love and understanding allowed other emotions such as anger, hate and desperation to grow in the void.

[Steve_uk]

With respect Steve I cannot agree with you.

I have a perfectly normal loving and healthy relationship with my children, far more so than many natural parents and they adored my parents and my parents were fantastic grandparents who loved them completely.

You are making sweeping statements about adoptive relationships, I would not deny what you suggest may happen but I would bet the problems are much deeper than just not having anything in common with members of your family. 

Of course some adoptive children do not gel with their parents and I would guess that imo would be the parents fault in baby adoptions for not providing the necessary bonding and nconditional love which is necessary in all mother/father/baby relationships. 

In a well bonded adoptive or natural family where the child is at the centre of the family any problems due to adoption would come from outside the family as they grow and develop not within the family. in any family setting if the gel of love is strong most things can be overcome.

IMO in a happy family the stresses and strains and differences are more about changes in morals etc between the generations rather than anything else and are completely normal in any family situation.

The particular problems in the Bamber family seemed to stem from the fact that the relationship between Sheila and Jeremy and their parents appears to have been highly dysfunctional.  The lack of bonding and unconditional love and understanding allowed other emotions such as anger, hate and desperation to grow in the void.

Well I think this is what I wanted to say.