"I didn't mean to be horrible to Jeremy.."

[Steve_uk]

Steve, what has any of this to do with Sheila's inner turmoil. It matters little how much June loved her children. What is more important is how much they felt themselves to be loved BY her.

I think Sheila's illness and its symptoms of talking about religion at length turned people off,and I'm not sure how far Sheila was aware of the effect this had on other people. Sheila on medication was vacant and not fully cognizant of her environment;the Sheila off medication would still not have reached for a gun and shot 25 rounds,as all the forensic evidence points that she did not do so.

[Jane]

If you're told the circumstances that Colin was on the doorstep his comments are only a natural reaction,but are as valid as Jeremy claiming on Pages Lane that the raid team were responsible for the deaths. Sheila didn't mind taking a back seat in the upbringing of her children-in fact it was probably rather the reverse as it gave her more time to lie in bed and make herself look presentable for when she did go out. She might have been hard up but she must have known that she had expectations in the future as far as her parents' estate was concerned.

I have no objection to these points being raised but there seems to be very little balance in this thread of late. How about Jeremy's comment to Doris Foakes that "I'm not sharing any of my money with Sheila"-just how was he going to manage that? Why was it that on only the second occasion in eight months that the whole family was together under one roof,when at the latter occasion in December 1984 there are two people who claim that Jeremy was intent on their destruction.

Steve, I'm inclined to think that Colin knew more of Sheila's mental state and her potential than do you, who chose to ignore those facts about her which are either unpleasant to you OR do not portray her in the light in which you choose to see her. I see in this particular piece we have her as happy to take a back seat in their care because it gives her longer to tittivate herself for going out and partying.. This is the woman whose is no schemer but has suddenly cottoned on to the fact that there's money to be gained from the olds. But isn't this the same woman who puts her children before all else?

[Steve_uk]

I don't believe she was angry either or that she was a schemer. Steve is considering Sheila's motives as part of some rational thought process with his constant use of words like 'revenge', 'anger' and 'schemer'. Psychosis  holds no rational thought processes and as such those words have no place when discussing her motives - whatever such motives were, they would make no sense to the rest of us.

You have to ask yourself what Sheila had previously done under psychosis,which was not pleasant admittedly,but which did not involve violence towards others,as with Michael Stone,for example.

[Lugg]

But Sheila had been living apart from Colin for months by this stage and they both led separate lives,though always wanting the best for the twins. In all the other cases I have read about mothers who murder their children the adults seem to be frightened that the children are going to be harmed in some way. Sheila knew what a good father Colin was and also knew she could see them whenever she wished.

You can't argue with facts Steve. The facts are (1) that Colin had told Sheila that very night that their relationship was over. (2) Sheila hoped they would get back together. Those facts cannot be denied. Another fact if you will receive it is that she referred to her children one time as if the devil had possessed them.

Marked in red: Maybe her fear was that now Colin had another love in his life that they may get married and that Colin maywant to take them away? That is a very real fear with single mothers as well?

[Steve_uk]

Steve, I'm inclined to think that Colin knew more of Sheila's mental state and her potential than do you, who chose to ignore those facts about her which are either unpleasant to you OR do not portray her in the light in which you choose to see her. I see in this particular piece we have her as happy to take a back seat in their care because it gives her longer to tittivate herself for going out and partying.. This is the woman whose is no schemer but has suddenly cottoned on to the fact that there's money to be gained from the olds. But isn't this the same woman who puts her children before all else?

But Sheila did put her children before her social life:this is well documented in Claire Powell's book. If she was no longer together with Colin for whatever reason why shouldn't she date other men? I'm sure Colin had come to realize that Sheila was difficult to live with and that they were better off apart. But all this does not make Sheila a murderer,sorry.

[Lugg]

But Sheila did put her children before her social life:this is well documented in Claire Powell's book. If she was no longer together with Colin for whatever reason why shouldn't she date other men? I'm sure Colin had come to realize that Sheila was difficult to live with and that they were better off apart. But all this does not make Sheila a murderer,sorry.

No. But the facts that I stated would make her a potential murderer.

[Steve_uk]

You can't argue with facts Steve. The facts are (1) that Colin had told Sheila that very night that their relationship was over. (2) Sheila hoped they would get back together. Those facts cannot be denied. Another fact if you will receive it is that she referred to her children one time as if the devil had possessed them.

Marked in red: Maybe her fear was that now Colin had another love in his life that they may get married and that Colin maywant to take them away? That is a very real fear with single mothers as well?

The incident you refer to about Sheila seeing the Devil in her twins was in her first stay at St. Andrews' in September 1982. Though nobody would say Sheila was fully compos mentis by the end of her second stay in hospital in March 1985 she no longer talked of the twins in that way,but did have a religious fervour,which was picked up by Jeremy when he led her into the master bedroom that Wednesday morning like a lamb to the slaughter and shot her quickly under the chin unawares.

Of course Colin not wanting a reconciliation was a blow to Sheila,but she had had time to accept this by the August as a fait accompli. It doesn't make Sheila a schemer just because she knows that some day she will inherit from her parents,but it does give someone a sense of security and more of a reason to live.

[Lugg]

The incident you refer to about Sheila seeing the Devil in her twins was in her first stay at St. Andrews' in September 1982. Though nobody would say Sheila was fully compos mentis by the end of her second stay in hospital in March 1985 she no longer talked of the twins in that way,but did have a religious fervour,which was picked up by Jeremy when he led her into the master bedroom that Wednesday morning like a lamb to the slaughter and shot her quickly under the chin unawares.

Of course Colin not wanting a reconciliation was a blow to Sheila,but she had had time to accept this by the August as a fait accompli. It doesn't make Sheila a schemer just because she knows that some day she will inherit from her parents,but it does give someone a sense of security and more of a reason to live.

You are completely sure of that as a fact are you Steve. Can I ask you how you know this to be a fact? Also she didn't have time to accept that Colin wanted to end the relationship. As he told her that day he drove her to the farm. Not once did I say Sheila was aq schemer. I believe this to be a desparate unplanned act on her part.

[Jane]

The incident you refer to about Sheila seeing the Devil in her twins was in her first stay at St. Andrews' in September 1982. Though nobody would say Sheila was fully compos mentis by the end of her second stay in hospital in March 1985 she no longer talked of the twins in that way,but did have a religious fervour,which was picked up by Jeremy when he led her into the master bedroom that Wednesday morning like a lamb to the slaughter and shot her quickly under the chin unawares.

Of course Colin not wanting a reconciliation was a blow to Sheila,but she had had time to accept this by the August as a fait accompli. It doesn't make Sheila a schemer just because she knows that some day she will inherit from her parents,but it does give someone a sense of security and more of a reason to live.

Given that if she came out of hospital in March with hopes of reconcilation and didn't see Colin with his new love until the party at the beginning of August, she must have been very blase to accept it as a fait accompli. Also, suicide, unless prompted by lack of money, in my experience has NEVER been allayed by thoughts of inheriting it.

[Jane]

You are completely sure of that as a fact are you Steve. Can I ask you how you know this to be a fact? Also she didn't have time to accept that Colin wanted to end the relationship. As he told her that day he drove her to the farm. Not once did I say Sheila was aq schemer. I believe this to be a desparate unplanned act on her part.

Steve, Lugg is the third person, within the last hor, to remind you that nobody here has suggested that Sheila was a schemer. WHY do you still persist in saying otherwise? Are we ever likely to see an occasion when you admit that you may be wrong?

[Steve_uk]

You are completely sure of that as a fact are you Steve. Can I ask you how you know this to be a fact? Also she didn't have time to accept that Colin wanted to end the relationship. As he told her that day he drove her to the farm. Not once did I say Sheila was aq schemer. I believe this to be a desparate unplanned act on her part.

There wasn't time for Sheila to have done the murders,as a very much alive Nevill makes a call at 3:26am(it may have been as late as 3:36am but we'll be lenient). Nevill reports no deaths at that stage to Jeremy,neither would it be typical of a former RAF pilot to leave his wife and grandsons to rush downstairs to the telephone(it being serious enough at this stage to telephone Jeremy but not the Police). So Sheila has 22 minutes to shoot five people dead,reload three times with her nightie holding no pockets to hold bullets,grapple with Nevill in the kitchen after shooting him on the landing and in the hallway,wash herself ritualistically and proceed upstairs to shoot herself twice before the Police arrive at 3:48am.

[coleen]

How do any of us know what was in the minds of Colin and Sheila you are all guessing and that proves nothing. I can't see how poring over intimate details of these people help prove Jeremy is innocent or guilty. If the remarks are in order to prove Sheila committed all the murders I think you fail to convince me. Lots of mothers are horrible to their children and lots of women want a certain man to stay with them and they don't plan a mass murder. I need to look at the forensics involved as supposition does not work for me. 

[susan]

steve  how do you know the murders were committed in the time frame you are suggesting.  The police did not enter the farm until about 7.30 a.m and would not have been aware what was happening in there.  If they were so confident everyone was dead why did they not enter much sooner.

[susan]

Hi coleen  when you find the forensic evidence Jeremy Bamber was convicted on show me the reports as I have never been able to find them.  Thanks.  If you have read earlier posts today you will see lots of Mothers murder their children.

[Steve_uk]

steve  how do you know the murders were committed in the time frame you are suggesting.  The police did not enter the farm until about 7.30 a.m and would not have been aware what was happening in there.  If they were so confident everyone was dead why did they not enter much sooner.

There was no sound of running water audible from without,there was nobody crying out for help..it's pretty obvious to me that Jeremy high on cocaine had shot them all before his second call to Julie at around 3:15am.