Did Sheila Suffer An Attachment Disorder Resulting In Affectionless Psychopathy?

[Caroline R]

There were very light scratches on his hands because,you see,a glove had come off in the fight which Julie could only have known had Jeremy been there;as for Sheila I suggest to you that had Ralph(Nevill) not been shot at this stage which we surmise from the telephone call to Jeremy(let's go along with the Jeremy supporters' charade for a moment) he could have wrested control of the gun from Sheila who was 5" 7ins without the gun hitting the ceiling light. It's far more likely that in the struggle for life and death that it was Jeremy who overcame his father,a 61 year old man who had been ill, and who shortly afterwards finished him off with the remaining four shots.

Considering he had been harvesting it wouldn't be unusual to have a few scratches but where did you read that and what or who was the source?

[Steve_uk]

Considering he had been harvesting it wouldn't be unusual to have a few scratches but where did you read that and what or who was the source?

Well the source was the 450 page book Blood Relations by Roger Wilkes. It's in there somewhere that he showed these scratches at a distance to either David Boutflour or Anthony Pargeter I can't remember offhand. I did post somewhere that he was a farmer and this didn't prove anything but they could have been sustained in the fight with Ralph(Nevill) when the glove came off,which would substantiate Julie's statement.

[Caroline R]

Well the source was the 450 page book Blood Relations by Roger Wilkes. It's in there somewhere that he showed these scratches at a distance to either David Boutflour or Anthony Pargeter I can't remember offhand. I did post somewhere that he was a farmer and this didn't prove anything but they could have been sustained in the fight with Ralph(Nevill) when the glove came off,which would substantiate Julie's statement.

Steve, I cleaned the kitched today - managed to crush my finger and damage the nail, I have several scratches from various sources but I didn't kill anyone.

[Caroline R]

Hi Steve

Yes your perception is funny and doesn't necessarily represent reality. 

Plse can you confirm who was paying Sheila's bills and whether or not she had any discretionary income. 

JB may have been disappointed in not being able to pursue a career in diving in the same way that Sheila may have been disappointed that her modelling career didn't take off.  Plse can you identify Sheila's paid modelling assignments. 

Both SC and JB were packed off to boarding school.  I wld point out that it was Sheila who was expelled twice eventually being moved to an alternative school.

Hi egap, I'm sure it's all documented in Roger Wilkes's book 

[Steve_uk]

Hi Steve

Yes your perception is funny and doesn't necessarily represent reality. 

Plse can you confirm who was paying Sheila's bills and whether or not she had any discretionary income. 

JB may have been disappointed in not being able to pursue a career in diving in the same way that Sheila may have been disappointed that her modelling career didn't take off.  Plse can you identify Sheila's paid modelling assignments. 

Both SC and JB were packed off to boarding school.  I wld point out that it was Sheila who was expelled twice eventually being moved to an alternative school.

Again you're misinformed. Sheila was expelled on the last day of school with a group of other girls,so though technically correct it is misleading as you write it. I had assumed at Moira House Sheila's first school in Eastbourne that she was unhappy and so her parents arranged for her to be moved to Old House School in Norfolk. Sheila did some modelling in Tokyo so there is your paid modelling assignment,she also did some nude modelling work in a back garden which she did not understand the implications of when taking up the assignment and immediately asked for the photographs back,which she received. As for Sheila not having any outside income,it was Robert Boutflour's suggestion that she be given shares in the caravan park business,and this proposal was turned down by Jeremy,who was bitter that a woman struggling with mental illness and trying her best to cope with the difficult job of motherhood,in her case two children,was having her bills paid by June,whilst he had to buy furniture for the rented cottage in Goldhanger and be subjected to being told he didn't work hard enough,and it was this resentment that fermented in his mind which enabled him to shoot her along with her children so cold-bloodedly and express no remorse for the victims at any time,whether you consider the man innocent or guilty.

[Roch]

I'm 5'3", 8st 7llbs, size 8

 

[guest154]

Darn! Roch got there first!

[Jane]

Again you're misinformed. Sheila was expelled on the last day of school with a group of other girls,so though technically correct it is misleading as you write it. I had assumed at Moira House Sheila's first school in Eastbourne that she was unhappy and so her parents arranged for her to be moved to Old House School in Norfolk. Sheila did some modelling in Tokyo so there is your paid modelling assignment,she also did some nude modelling work in a back garden which she did not understand the implications of when taking up the assignment and immediately asked for the photographs back,which she received. As for Sheila not having any outside income,it was Robert Boutflour's suggestion that she be given shares in the caravan park business,and this proposal was turned down by Jeremy,who was bitter that a woman struggling with mental illness and trying her best to cope with the difficult job of motherhood,in her case two children,was having her bills paid by June,whilst he had to buy furniture for the rented cottage in Goldhanger and be subjected to being told he didn't work hard enough,and it was this resentment that fermented in his mind which enabled him to shoot her along with her children so cold-bloodedly and express no remorse for the victims at any time,whether you consider the man innocent or guilty.

It's not just that I don't agree with what you say, I get the impression that you just make it up as you go along in order to give provenance to what you say.

[susan]

Morning april  How are you this fine sunny day. steve-uk is a natural story teller and once he starts he gets carried away and invents as he goes.  He would be good at writing books providing they are not based on true crimes.  That is his downfall.  I sometimes wonder if he is a unniversity student on hols filling in his days, if so he will be off in October, so no more stories for you april.

[Jane]

Morning april  How are you this fine sunny day. steve-uk is a natural story teller and once he starts he gets carried away and invents as he goes.  He would be good at writing books providing they are not based on true crimes.  That is his downfall.  I sometimes wonder if he is a unniversity student on hols filling in his days, if so he will be off in October, so no more stories for you april.

'Morning Susan, I'm really well, thankyou, as I hope are you.

I, too, had wondered the same thing, but unless he was doing a creative(?!!!!!) writing course, the writing style he produces here wouldn't be acceptable. It would be good though, wouldn't it, if he could find something in which to channel his particular form of creativity.

[Steve_uk]

Well make your mind up girls:either I'm a Kenneth Williams character afflicted by periodic bouts of melancholia or I'm a hard-pressed university student trying to flog the odd journalistic item,or using this forum as experimentation for a PhD in creative writing which will be bestowed upon me by Jeanette Winterson any time soon..

Sheila was denied shares by Jeremy in the Osea Road Caravan Site,which reading between the lines was a lucrative business,and has become more so over the years,as Londoners sought a rural escape from the stresses and strains of city life. I just don't see Sheila as a schemer in the way Jeremy was;she was a straightforward,natural girl who was struggling with mental illness and trying to make it(though failing) in the competitive and pressurized world of modelling. I have a great deal of sympathy for her as she is attempting to juggle the day to day responsibilities which motherhood brings with the side-effects of Haloperidol which slowed her system down,and therefore it's unsurprising to me that the twins were sometimes late for school and had to dress themselves,though I feel that this neglect is not deliberate,which was the same conclusion Camden Social Services came to. Unfortunately when June bought Sheila the flat in Maida Vale it meant that Sheila had changed to the jurisdiction of Westminster Council and I don't think they had a record of the twins' history.

There is no way that "Jeremy called the shots" as someone has put it in one of the above posts and this represents a total misunderstanding of the situation as prevailed before the shootings. It was Jeremy who was tied to working at the farm due to the clause in Ralph's(Nevill's)will which specified that the trustees had to be sure that Jeremy was a fit and proper farmer to be entrusted with the land,and it was for this reason and this reason alone that Jeremy ostensibly settled down to agricultural life in that past year. Those of you who dismiss Julie Mugford's testimony as a pack of lies might be interested in an anecdote in Roger Wilkes' book. A friend of Jeremy's at the Frog and Beans,Colchester,computer salesman Charles Marsden recalls a conversation he had with Jeremy in December 1984 in which Jeremy says words to the effect that "if the farm burnt down over Christmas everything would be mine". This was a previous occasion when his whole family would be together,similar to the week in August window of opportunity,and it shows how Jeremy's mind was working,as well as tying in with Julie's statement. Against this in fairness we have to balance Sheila's statement that she saw the Devil in her children but there is not the similar comparison with Jeremy that she would want to harm Nevill in any way,and there is also the coordination issue of Sheila being able to discharge and reload a rifle which was stiff,as the Police discovered on the morning of the murders,possible corroborated by some of the case shells not being in the designated area and suggesting that the murder weapon had jammed at some time during the executions.

[Jane]

Well make your mind up girls:either I'm a Kenneth Williams character afflicted by periodic bouts of melancholia or I'm a hard-pressed university student trying to flog the odd journalistic item,or using this forum as experimentation for a PhD in creative writing which will be bestowed upon me by Jeanette Winterson any time soon..

Sheila was denied shares by Jeremy in the Osea Road Caravan Site,which reading between the lines was a lucrative business,and has become more so over the years,as Londoners sought a rural escape from the stresses and strains of city life. I just don't see Sheila as a schemer in the way Jeremy was;she was a straightforward,natural girl who was struggling with mental illness and trying to make it(though failing) in the competitive and pressurized world of modelling. I have a great deal of sympathy for her as she is attempting to juggle the day to day responsibilities which motherhood brings with the side-effects of Haloperidol which slowed her system down,and therefore it's unsurprising to me that the twins were sometimes late for school and had to dress themselves,though I feel that this neglect is not deliberate,which was the same conclusion Camden Social Services came to. Unfortunately when June bought Sheila the flat in Maida Vale it meant that Sheila had changed to the jurisdiction of Westminster Council and I don't think they had a record of the twins' history.

There is no way that "Jeremy called the shots" as someone has put it in one of the above posts and this represents a total misunderstanding of the situation as prevailed before the shootings. It was Jeremy who was tied to working at the farm due to the clause in Ralph's(Nevill's)will which specified that the trustees had to be sure that Jeremy was a fit and proper farmer to be entrusted with the land,and it was for this reason and this reason alone that Jeremy ostensibly settled down to agricultural life in that past year. Those of you who dismiss Julie Mugford's testimony as a pack of lies might be interested in an anecdote in Roger Wilkes' book. A friend of Jeremy's at the Frog and Beans,Colchester,computer salesman Charles Marsden recalls a conversation he had with Jeremy in December 1984 in which Jeremy says words to the effect that "if the farm burnt down over Christmas everything would be mine". This was a previous occasion when his whole family would be together,similar to the week in August window of opportunity,and it shows how Jeremy's mind was working,as well as tying in with Julie's statement. Against this in fairness we have to balance Sheila's statement that she saw the Devil in her children but there is not the similar comparison with Jeremy that she would want to harm Nevill in any way,and there is also the coordination issue of Sheila being able to discharge and reload a rifle which was stiff,as the Police discovered on the morning of the murders,possible corroborated by some of the case shells not being in the designated area and suggesting that the murder weapon had jammed at some time during the executions.

Steve, it may surprise you to know that I largely agree with what you have said about Sheila's day to day life. Her chronic condition would have meant that coping wasn always going to be difficult and something I suspect she would never have managed without input(interference?) from others and, like you, I have enormous sympathy for her..........however, in that paragraph you tell us that Jeremy denied her shares in a lucrative business and in the next, you tell us that Jeremy didn't call the shots. Which is it to be?

You have some interesting things to say regarding the terms and conditions of Nevill's will. Why would it be necessary for a board of trustees to ascertain Jeremy's fitness as a farmer whilst Nevill was still alive?  To my knowledge the terms of a will can't be evoked before death.

I'm always wary, and suspicious, of anecdotes taken from books. Under what circumstances, and WHY, did Jeremy utter those words? What was the conversation which preceded and surrounded them? What was the agenda of his so called "friend" when he told an author that Jeremy had said those words? They sound to me as if they were said by somebody who wanted to impress the company he was with, which tells me that the person concerned feels insecure and given what we, and that includes you, Steve, have said of his time at school, is a reasonable assessment. I think it possible that Jeremy felt he had to buy friendship, male and female, in order to be popular because like many adopted children, it's likely he felt isolated and being called a "bastard" at school won't have helped. I'm fully aware that he probably earned, and worked hard at maintaining the reputation he had but I doubt that he would have wanted anybody to know what he may have believed to be the "real" him beneath the veneer. Interesting I think, that his good looks, his apparent charm, his apparent wealth, all the reasons women liked him, are the very reasons men probably didn't. It's my experience that men aren't very good at friendship, I think they're inclined to see each other as rivals, which is why I was interested to know what the "friend's" agenda might have been. Repeatin those particular words, with their obvious potential to damage, out of context, seems to me to be a somewhat unfriendly way to treat a friend.

[lookout]

I'm not surprised the rifle jammed because of the frenzied way in which it was used,,,in a very " spur of the moment " temper/frenzy,,as opposed to something which was pre-planned.
Sheila would have been struggling with the rifle as well as her mental illness,,hence the broken bit ( that we haven't seen ) and any scratches to furnishings. I wouldn't have said that Sheila was steady at the best of times.
Nope,,,I can't visualise Jeremy being involved.

[maggie]

Great insightful post April....I do have to agree with you yet again!! As I've said before few of us have much idea about what made and makes Jeremy Bamber tick. I do think however, your suggestions could be closer to the truth. Certainly Sheila must have struggled really hard trying to look after the twins...goodness knows single parenting is hard enough without all the handicaps she had to deal with. I don't think anyone has ever suggested that Sheila ever, in any way intentionally neglected or abused her children.
The truth of people's lives is usually closer to the mundane than the sensational. That goes right across the board in my experience and whatever happened that night was much more likely to have occured due to a series of events and circumstances rather than some cold, cunning plan, carried out by a psychopath who told everyone he met apparently the various ways he had considered he might kill his family.

[Bridget]

I'm not surprised the rifle jammed because of the frenzied way in which it was used,,,in a very " spur of the moment " temper/frenzy,,as opposed to something which was pre-planned.
Sheila would have been struggling with the rifle as well as her mental illness,,hence the broken bit ( that we haven't seen ) and any scratches to furnishings. I wouldn't have said that Sheila was steady at the best of times.
Nope,,,I can't visualise Jeremy being involved.

Yes we have, there's a picture of it on the kitchen floor in the archives somewhere.