Author Topic: Did Sheila Suffer An Attachment Disorder Resulting In Affectionless Psychopathy?  (Read 48800 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Steve_uk

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 21102
Well some of these anecdotes had been given to Roger Wilkes on the condition of anonymity,so I'm afraid people will have to make their own minds up again. It's interesting in this context that Charles Marsden did not waive that right to anonymity,so I'm assuming that he's confident in his own mind of what Jeremy told him(Blood Relations Chapter 18):

The detectives were intrigued by the tale told by another of Jeremy Bamber's friends,the sales manager for a computer firm,called Charles Marsden. Marsden was also the boyfriend of Liz Rimington. He described how he'd become part of Jeremy's set at the Frog and Beans wine bar in Colchester. He explained that in a crowd that included women, Jeremy would splash out with money to the extent that he could be called "flash". "He was impressed by money",Marsden added. "He was impressed by people who spend a lot and the things that money could buy,such as expensive cars". Although he worked for a modest wage on his father's farm,Jeremy had boasted that one day he would be a wealthy man. Marsden took this to mean that one day Jeremy expected to inherit his parents' money.

In December 1984 Jeremy had announced that his entire family were getting together to celebrate Christmas. This was unusual. During a drinking session at a wine bar in Maldon Jeremy had confided to Charles Marsden that if the farmhouse were to burn down over Christmas everything would be his."I thought at the time this was a strange thing to say",Marsden reported,"but didn't particularly take any notice".

At teatime on the day following the White House Farm massacre,Jeremy Bamber had appeared at Charles Marsden's office in Colchester. Marsden knew nothing of what had happened,and Jeremy poured out the story that Marsden later read in the newspapers. The two men drove to a little pub outside Colchester and talked for about half an hour."I thought it strange that Jeremy had come to see me with this news",Marsden admitted,"but I thought he was probably in shock". What struck Charles Marsden most forcibly was that in speaking of Sheila-the sister he said had murdered his entire family and then shot herself-Jeremy showed neither emotion nor anger towards her.

I won't broach the subject of Jeremy's one-night stands and the incident with Charles on the bed,but I'm afraid the above is damning evidence which the Jeremy supporters have to deal with. The point about Ralph's(Nevill's)will was that there were trustees who owned the land and Nevill had stipulated that it was they who had to be satisfied that Jeremy was shaping up to be a good farmer in order for him to inherit. But this effort proved too much for Jeremy.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2012, 11:32:AM by Steve_uk »

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48676
Yes we have, there's a picture of it on the kitchen floor in the archives somewhere.

Oh,,I didn't see it Bridget,,,and I've looked through the archives a couple of times too. Must admit at the time,I wasn't looking for the damaged rifle.

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48676
Hardly surprising,as a cat wouldn't find its kittens in that kitchen. ( my excuse,anyway.)

Offline Bridget

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5065
Hardly surprising,as a cat wouldn't find its kittens in that kitchen. ( my excuse,anyway.)

Lol, it is a little untidy, I agree :)
....just cos I eat worms...

Offline maggie

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13651
Steve, I just don't see the damning evidence...it's all hearsay, somewhere else you could find a totally different statement about Jeremy. People are many faceted as are  the conceptions  they may have of someone  due to different experiences.
You stated yourself that Jeremy could be in shock so you cannot possibly judge Jeremy's attitude at that time to any part of the event. 
« Last Edit: August 19, 2012, 11:46:AM by maggie »

Offline Jane

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 33781
Steve, "Blood Relations" isn't the Bible and Wilkes isn't God!!!

Offline grahameb

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 11830
Well make your mind up girls:either I'm a Kenneth Williams character afflicted by periodic bouts of melancholia or I'm a hard-pressed university student trying to flog the odd journalistic item,or using this forum as experimentation for a PhD in creative writing which will be bestowed upon me by Jeanette Winterson any time soon..

Sheila was denied shares by Jeremy in the Osea Road Caravan Site,which reading between the lines was a lucrative business,and has become more so over the years,as Londoners sought a rural escape from the stresses and strains of city life. I just don't see Sheila as a schemer in the way Jeremy was;she was a straightforward,natural girl who was struggling with mental illness and trying to make it(though failing) in the competitive and pressurized world of modelling. I have a great deal of sympathy for her as she is attempting to juggle the day to day responsibilities which motherhood brings with the side-effects of Haloperidol which slowed her system down,and therefore it's unsurprising to me that the twins were sometimes late for school and had to dress themselves,though I feel that this neglect is not deliberate,which was the same conclusion Camden Social Services came to. Unfortunately when June bought Sheila the flat in Maida Vale it meant that Sheila had changed to the jurisdiction of Westminster Council and I don't think they had a record of the twins' history.

There is no way that "Jeremy called the shots" as someone has put it in one of the above posts and this represents a total misunderstanding of the situation as prevailed before the shootings. It was Jeremy who was tied to working at the farm due to the clause in Ralph's(Nevill's)will which specified that the trustees had to be sure that Jeremy was a fit and proper farmer to be entrusted with the land,and it was for this reason and this reason alone that Jeremy ostensibly settled down to agricultural life in that past year. Those of you who dismiss Julie Mugford's testimony as a pack of lies might be interested in an anecdote in Roger Wilkes' book. A friend of Jeremy's at the Frog and Beans,Colchester,computer salesman Charles Marsden recalls a conversation he had with Jeremy in December 1984 in which Jeremy says words to the effect that "if the farm burnt down over Christmas everything would be mine". This was a previous occasion when his whole family would be together,similar to the week in August window of opportunity,and it shows how Jeremy's mind was working,as well as tying in with Julie's statement. Against this in fairness we have to balance Sheila's statement that she saw the Devil in her children but there is not the similar comparison with Jeremy that she would want to harm Nevill in any way,and there is also the coordination issue of Sheila being able to discharge and reload a rifle which was stiff,as the Police discovered on the morning of the murders,possible corroborated by some of the case shells not being in the designated area and suggesting that the murder weapon had jammed at some time during the executions.
French restaurant was it? :)

Offline grahameb

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 11830
Steve, "Blood Relations" isn't the Bible and Wilkes isn't God!!!
You remind me of something my friend and mentor said years ago about books. He said that before we read a particular book you will do well to research the person why wrote it beforehand.

Offline Steve_uk

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 21102
Steve, I just don't see the damning evidence...it's all hearsay, somewhere else you could find a totally different statement about Jeremy. People are many faceted as are  the conceptions  they may have of someone  due to different experiences.
You stated yourself that Jeremy could be in shock so you cannot possibly judge Jeremy's attitude at that time to any part of the event.

Maggie how much "hearsay" do you need? Charles Marsden,Julie Mugford, Colin Caffell,David Balfour,Ann Eaton,the farm hand, Dorothy Foakes,Barbara Wilson,James Richards..on the other side you have the guy who attested that Jeremy played a decent game of snooker..

Offline maggie

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13651
Steve, "Blood Relations" isn't the Bible and Wilkes isn't God!!!
Hi april, this is one reason I haven't read the books because I'm sure it's difficult to avoid any sort of suggestion infiltrating your brain however hard you try to avoid it. It is safer to stick to facts in my opinion. Also, I'm sure some of them would drive me crazy, I'm a bit picky about my reading material....I'm afraid.  Just noticed Ajross has disappeared...he read all the books and disappeared in a puff of snoke....definitely no good for you.

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48676
You remind me of something my friend and mentor said years ago about books. He said that before we read a particular book you will do well to research the person why wrote it beforehand.


Very true,Grahame,,as most authors have got,,or have had issues of some sort themselves.

Offline maggie

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13651
Maggie how much "hearsay" do you need? Charles Marsden,Julie Mugford, Colin Caffell,David Balfour,Ann Eaton,the farm hand, Dorothy Foakes,Barbara Wilson,James Richards..on the other side you have the guy who attested that Jeremy played a decent game of snooker..
Steve, for a start I think you'd find Barbara Wilson on both lists, you also list close interested parties ie. extended family members and Julie Mugford £25,000 incentive...etc. I could give you plenty but have no time for games at present.  When I have time I will write down some names unless someone else has some time to waste n the meantime.  ;D

Offline grahameb

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 11830
Steve, for a start I think you'd find Barbara Wilson on both lists, you also list close interested parties ie. extended family members and Julie Mugford £25,000 incentive...etc. I could give you plenty but have no time for games at present.  When I have time I will write down some names unless someone else has some time to waste n the meantime.  ;D
I believe that there were quite a number of character witnesses who were not called to the stand? Bad defence lawyers.

Offline lebaleb

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 884
But Sheila was a danger to herself if anyone,not to others. Had she ever attacked anyone ever whilst previously in a psychotic state? I would have been more inclined to admit that Sheila might have suffered a psychotic episode that Wednesday morning had she had no Haloperidol in her system,but the autopsy report showed that she had. All indications were that she was calm on the Tuesday evening,and suffering if anything the side-effects of a high dosage of Haloperidol,the vacant stare reported from the shopkeeper in Tiptree,and the conversation she had with Pamela on the telephone. The custody issue again is a matter of dispute;Colin had joint custody of the twins and would have won any court battle hands down,as grandparents have no rights whatsoever over natural parents.Surely Ralph as a magistrate would have known this?

I have re-read the part in Colin's book where Jeremy discusses the telephone call,and Jeremy stated that at the time of the call Jeremy says that he had the impression that Ralph(Nevill) may already have been wounded. In this case it's my opinion that with the welfare of the twins in his mind and Nevill having been able to reach the telephone he would have dialled the three figure number 999 rather than the seven figure number to Jeremy's cottage at Goldhanger,that is if Nevill had that number in his head at all..

Drugs for treating Schizophrenia and other psychotic disorders must be closely monitored and fine tuned. The fact is that Sheila's last dose of Haloperidol at 100mg, was almost one month earlier. Not a high dosage as you state. The original dose was set at 200mg per fortnight. So although traces of the drug were found I doubt they would have been effective.
Freddie states that he was fearful of his own safety during the episode at his apartment. CC's mother discribes Sheila's behaviour as 'Hyper-active'.
As for the adoption discussion, we know for a fact that June was concerned that the twins would end up being adopted because of Sheil's behaviour [CC's mothers statement] so it is perfectly plausable that the discussion did take place as Jeremy testified.

Offline Roch

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17586
Drugs for treating Schizophrenia and other psychotic disorders must be closely monitored and fine tuned. The fact is that Sheila's last dose of Haloperidol at 100mg, was almost one month earlier. Not a high dosage as you state. The original dose was set at 200mg per fortnight. So although traces of the drug were found I doubt they would have been effective.
Freddie states that he was fearful of his own safety during the episode at his apartment. CC's mother discribes Sheila's behaviour as 'Hyper-active'.
As for the adoption discussion, we know for a fact that June was concerned that the twins would end up being adopted because of Sheil's behaviour [CC's mothers statement] so it is perfectly plausable that the discussion did take place as Jeremy testified.

There is a prosecution witness who has stated that fostering was discussed by immediate family.  Even if this was only referring to some kind of temporary assistance, what you have to try and take in to account is how such discussions might have been perceived by Sheila, in her mind, given the condition of her mental health.  It is Sheila's perception that is all important here, in my opinion.