Author Topic: Jeremy's Alibi...  (Read 65387 times)

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Caroline R

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Re: Jeremy's Alibi...
« Reply #360 on: August 17, 2012, 06:08:PM »
Well I hadn't heard of the alleged abuse,which would explain her wanting to get away from her family and thereby sticking with Jeremy long after she should have ended the relationship.

Even with the full knowledge that he killed his entire family - including two children? Would you ever envisage staying with someone like that? Had I been in her position and I received the 'to night's the night' phone call I would have called him straight back and kept calling and when I realised what had happened and that they really were all dead - that's when I would have told the police. But to be honest, it never would have gotten that far because no matter how much you might like someone, the fact that they are constantly talking of killing their family almost every time you see them, would put the mockers on the relationship (somewhat). I would have run a mile AFTER making sure I had mentioned it to at least one of the people involved!

Offline Jane

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Re: Jeremy's Alibi...
« Reply #361 on: August 17, 2012, 06:16:PM »
Even with the full knowledge that he killed his entire family - including two children? Would you ever envisage staying with someone like that? Had I been in her position and I received the 'to night's the night' phone call I would have called him straight back and kept calling and when I realised what had happened and that they really were all dead - that's when I would have told the police. But to be honest, it never would have gotten that far because no matter how much you might like someone, the fact that they are constantly talking of killing their family almost every time you see them, would put the mockers on the relationship (somewhat). I would have run a mile AFTER making sure I had mentioned it to at least one of the people involved!

Caroline, I get the feeling that Steve's experiences of relationships can all be found within the pages of badly written novels.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Jeremy's Alibi...
« Reply #362 on: August 17, 2012, 06:18:PM »
Even with the full knowledge that he killed his entire family - including two children? Would you ever envisage staying with someone like that? Had I been in her position and I received the 'to night's the night' phone call I would have called him straight back and kept calling and when I realised what had happened and that they really were all dead - that's when I would have told the police. But to be honest, it never would have gotten that far because no matter how much you might like someone, the fact that they are constantly talking of killing their family almost every time you see them, would put the mockers on the relationship (somewhat). I would have run a mile AFTER making sure I had mentioned it to at least one of the people involved!

Well she was a young student in love,not yet 21 and people do make those mistakes at that age. Julie has atoned for her undoubted mistakes as her whole life since the murders testifies.

Offline lookout

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Re: Jeremy's Alibi...
« Reply #363 on: August 17, 2012, 06:23:PM »
Well she was a young student in love,not yet 21 and people do make those mistakes at that age. Julie has atoned for her undoubted mistakes as her whole life since the murders testifies.

Steve,,then why is JM frightened of Jeremy being released if " she knows that he didn't murder anyone."?
Or,,looking at it another way. If she " knows for absolute certainty that he committed murder ",,then what the heck is she doing in Canada,and not in the cell next to him as an accessory.?

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Jeremy's Alibi...
« Reply #364 on: August 17, 2012, 06:57:PM »
Steve,,then why is JM frightened of Jeremy being released if " she knows that he didn't murder anyone."?
Or,,looking at it another way. If she " knows for absolute certainty that he committed murder ",,then what the heck is she doing in Canada,and not in the cell next to him as an accessory.?

Because without her there may not have been a case. Had Jeremy dumped her before the murders and not telephoned her three times before,during and after the murders in a pathetic attempt to rope her in as an accessory I would have more sympathy with your view.

Offline grahameb

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Re: Jeremy's Alibi...
« Reply #365 on: August 17, 2012, 07:08:PM »
Because without her there may not have been a case. Had Jeremy dumped her before the murders and not telephoned her three times before,during and after the murders in a pathetic attempt to rope her in as an accessory I would have more sympathy with your view.
So is there any evidence that he tried to rope her in as an accessory? I personally wonder if Jeremy is guilty why the police did not charge her as an accessory after the fact? Also if he was guilty of those murders why dump JM just after them? Surely even he would reason that the first thing she would do was to go to the police? Wny of course she did didn't she? But surely it would have been better to keep her on his side? I really can't work out if according to the police he was an intelligent schemer. Or if as many of the anti's say he was a fool and that is what tripped him up?

Offline Jane

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Re: Jeremy's Alibi...
« Reply #366 on: August 17, 2012, 07:13:PM »
So is there any evidence that he tried to rope her in as an accessory? I personally wonder if Jeremy is guilty why the police did not charge her as an accessory after the fact? Also if he was guilty of those murders why dump JM just after them? Surely even he would reason that the first thing she would do was to go to the police? Wny of course she did didn't she? But surely it would have been better to keep her on his side? I really can't work out if according to the police he was an intelligent schemer. Or if as many of the anti's say he was a fool and that is what tripped him up?

Surely we only have Julie's word for what Jeremy supposedly said to her during those phonecalls?

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Jeremy's Alibi...
« Reply #367 on: August 17, 2012, 07:22:PM »
So is there any evidence that he tried to rope her in as an accessory? I personally wonder if Jeremy is guilty why the police did not charge her as an accessory after the fact? Also if he was guilty of those murders why dump JM just after them? Surely even he would reason that the first thing she would do was to go to the police? Wny of course she did didn't she? But surely it would have been better to keep her on his side? I really can't work out if according to the police he was an intelligent schemer. Or if as many of the anti's say he was a fool and that is what tripped him up?

Grahame Jeremy had endured seven years of rigid conformity to rules and stiff discipline at Gresham's,and the holidays would not have been much better with June as a mother and the weight of expectation on his shoulders to continue working on the farm. For the first time in his life Jeremy had everything he wanted,but there was Julie,an appendage of his past,and at that stage he may have wanted to play the field. In many ways he was just too open and honest with Julie,being the product of a public school and having very little knowledge psychologically of the opposite sex. Julie asked him if she loved him and he replied "I don't know"-he was evidently not ready to settle down with her as can be evidenced by his reaction to the "engagement " toast of Brett Collins after the funeral. He didn't hang up on Virginia at the Maida Vale flat but openly conducted the conversation in front of Julie. Maybe he's just the personality who doesn't understand what a person's reactions will be to any of his given scenarios.

Caroline R

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Re: Jeremy's Alibi...
« Reply #368 on: August 17, 2012, 08:53:PM »
Well she was a young student in love,not yet 21 and people do make those mistakes at that age. Julie has atoned for her undoubted mistakes as her whole life since the murders testifies.

(shaking my head in disbelief!!)

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Jeremy's Alibi...
« Reply #369 on: August 17, 2012, 08:56:PM »
Surely we only have Julie's word for what Jeremy supposedly said to her during those phonecalls?

The point was:why make the telephone calls at all?

Caroline R

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Re: Jeremy's Alibi...
« Reply #370 on: August 17, 2012, 10:53:PM »
The point was:why make the telephone calls at all?

Why shouldn't he have made the calls? Even stranger (to me) is the fact that after receiving a call to confirm that something sinister had occured, Julie went back to sleep - even though for the last year Jeremy had spoken of his plans to kill the family and had said earlier that 'it's tonight or never'.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Jeremy's Alibi...
« Reply #371 on: August 17, 2012, 10:59:PM »
Why shouldn't he have made the calls? Even stranger (to me) is the fact that after receiving a call to confirm that something sinister had occured, Julie went back to sleep - even though for the last year Jeremy had spoken of his plans to kill the family and had said earlier that 'it's tonight or never'.

They were made to tie Julie in as an accomplice. Now the Jeremy supporters can't have it both ways:either Jeremy telephoned her to let her know he was going to act at White House Farm(telephoning her before he telephoned the Police by the way,yet hurrying the Police along at every point)in which case he was the murderer,or there was some other innocuous reason to wake Julie during the night.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2012, 10:59:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Jeremy's Alibi...
« Reply #372 on: August 18, 2012, 06:37:AM »
They were made to tie Julie in as an accomplice. Now the Jeremy supporters can't have it both ways:either Jeremy telephoned her to let her know he was going to act at White House Farm(telephoning her before he telephoned the Police by the way,yet hurrying the Police along at every point)in which case he was the murderer,or there was some other innocuous reason to wake Julie during the night.

I don't understand this - since, once Jeremy rings the police and repeats what his father/dad/ Ralph told him, police send occupants of CA07 to whf, and Jeremy has no way of knowing that the police would not get into the premises immediately and find everyone dead? If that had been done, either police would have been satisfied that everyone had just been killed minutes before, or they would have come to the conclusion that everyone had been dead for hours beforehand which would then have exposed Jeremy's call to the police as a cock and bull story...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Jeremy's Alibi...
« Reply #373 on: August 18, 2012, 08:50:AM »
I don't understand this - since, once Jeremy rings the police and repeats what his father/dad/ Ralph told him, police send occupants of CA07 to whf, and Jeremy has no way of knowing that the police would not get into the premises immediately and find everyone dead? If that had been done, either police would have been satisfied that everyone had just been killed minutes before, or they would have come to the conclusion that everyone had been dead for hours beforehand which would then have exposed Jeremy's call to the police as a cock and bull story...

Well it's unlikely that the occupants of that patrol car are going to ring the doorbell or shoot "yoo-hoo" through the letterbox isn't it? The other thing you have to explain is why does Jeremy telephone Julie three times-once at 10pm(times are approximate),the second time at 3-30am and the third time around 5-30am? I know the Jeremy supporters hate to discuss them as they see Julie as a thorn in their side,but at this stage it seems Julie was very much a part of Jeremy's life,if not plans. Of course you don't want to acknowledge that Jeremy imparted anything to Julie which smelled of complicity either during the telephone calls or later at Goldhanger because that would be accepting that Jeremy himself had a hand in the murders.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Jeremy's Alibi...
« Reply #374 on: August 18, 2012, 09:23:AM »
Well it's unlikely that the occupants of that patrol car are going to ring the doorbell or shoot "yoo-hoo" through the letterbox isn't it? The other thing you have to explain is why does Jeremy telephone Julie three times-once at 10pm(times are approximate),the second time at 3-30am and the third time around 5-30am? I know the Jeremy supporters hate to discuss them as they see Julie as a thorn in their side,but at this stage it seems Julie was very much a part of Jeremy's life,if not plans. Of course you don't want to acknowledge that Jeremy imparted anything to Julie which smelled of complicity either during the telephone calls or later at Goldhanger because that would be accepting that Jeremy himself had a hand in the murders.

Phone calls Jeremy made to Muggy, are irrelevant if police shot Sheila with the rifle that PC Bird photographed at the bedroom window (23) and the police moved the rifle onto Sheilah's body and stage managed it afterwards, in keeping with images shown in 27, 28, 32 and 33 - it all means nothing at all, no matter what you say he said, or what she said he said, or whatever anybody says he said...

The FACTS speak for themselves, there is no photographic evidence in existence to show that the rifle was on Sheila's body, before PC Bird took picture 23. Do you realize what that means? It means that the photoghraphs which were shown to the jury, which were rammed down their throats as evidence to show how the raid team had found Sheila's body on the floor with the rifle upon it, undisturbed, untouched by human hand, yes these were the images that the jury were deceived into accepting which represented how the police had found the body of Sheila, and that Jeremy stage managed her body to fool police into thinking or accepting she took her own life, when all along it was the police who tried to fool themselves into thinking she took her own life, they stage managed her body on the floor, put the rifle on the body, and whilst all this was going off, Sheila got shot under the chin. You and them don't like to hear the truth about what took place, but it did, and the game is up, I am afraid - Jeremy Bambers convictions are unsafe and he should be released from prison immediately and those who conspired to pervert the course of justice should all be arrested, given a fair trial and if convicted sent to prison very the maximum period possible...

Any telephone calls Jeremy made to Muggy, and what he may have said, or did say, has no bearing whatsoever on what the police did and have done - its all just a smoke screen to try and divert everyone's attention away from what the police did and what they have done...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...