Sheila attempted to commit suicide (but failed), and was shot by the police...

[Jane]

After reading last nights posts a poster  stated cops don't move evidence or withhold it.  A cop has just been jailed in the Scottish Courts today for withholding evidence which resulted in two  innocent men being sent to prison they served 10 years but were released after Appeal.  The cop was I think a Detective and this was his first murder case and he wanted to solve it quickly and he did that alright. The cop got 5 years not enough in my eyes he knew both men were innocent but still wanted them convicted.  Disgrace.

I can remember that "When you want to know the time, ask a policeman." I suspect that these days the answer can't be relied on in the same way. What happened to going into the force to uphold and maintain the rights of the general public?

[susan]

Hi lookout  yes I thought it was sammy yes I think three of the cops involved are still on the force not sure missed the end of the story as usual.  An investigation will take place.

[susan]

Hi april1  Policemen were the pillars of Society along with Bankers they don't command much respect now in general.

[lookout]

Hi lookout  yes I thought it was sammy yes I think three of the cops involved are still on the force not sure missed the end of the story as usual.  An investigation will take place.

Yes,,Susan,an investigation behind closed doors. It'll be the last anyone hears about it.

[susan]

Hi lookout I am thinking because of the noise that has been created over this an other MOJ they may have to be honest about the investigation and will not get off with behind closed doors anymore.

[Jane]

Hi lookout I am thinking because of the noise that has been created over this an other MOJ they may have to be honest about the investigation and will not get off with behind closed doors anymore.
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Susan, hi. Does that mean that if enough noise is made about possible police involvement in Jeremy's MOJ that something will, at last, be done?

[mike tesko]

Yet why press a heated rifle butt into the back of a 61 year old man? That in my opinion is more likely to be the action of a man than a woman.

I suppose you'll next be suggesting that it was Jeremy who made the burn marks on the children, too?

Not to be forgotten or overlooked, of course is that Sheila thought she was once Joan of arc, and we all know what happened to her don't we? Sheila was fascinated with death, with fire and burning, and hellish beliefs, and this to my way of thinking is consistent with Sheila heating up the end of the guns barrel and burning Ralph with it on the back of his neck...

[mike tesko]

I suppose you'll next be suggesting that it was Jeremy who made the burn marks on the children, too?

Not to be forgotten or overlooked, of course is that Sheila thought she was once Joan of arc, and we all know what happened to her don't we? Sheila was fascinated with death, with fire and burning, and hellish beliefs, and this to my way of thinking is consistent with Sheila heating up the end of the guns barrel and burning Ralph with it on the back of his neck...

In any event, the end of the guns barrel may simply have been resting against the hot aga, which in turn made it hot - not that she or anybody else deliberately set out to heat up the end of the guns barrel?  Marks made on back of neck are not consistent with a silencer having been fitted to the guns barrel at the time these were made...

[mike tesko]

Blood which later ran from the corners of Sheila mouth had pooled inside as a result of the fatal shot under the chin which took a trajectory into her mouth, up through the roof of her mouth and into her brain. It ran from either side of her mouth when her head was moved this way and then that, and the run of blood that ended up in her left eye socket came about because at some time after she was shot and killed by bullet PV/19, her head lolled backward. I think this backward motion took place before blood which had pooled in her mouth started to run out either side...

The distribution of blood into her left eye socket, and from the corners of her mouth do not run in the same direction, and I think this supports the argument for someone having lifted up her head and rested it as it was later photographed at a point when her head rolled from side to side...

[susan]

Morning april1  Unfortunately the case against Jeremy is so riddled with lies and deception and happened so long ago the only people who may start listening is some MP with influence or if Simon MacKay can get some evidence released to prove Jeremy's innocence.  It seems to be a "closed shop" as far as the Judicial System is concerned.  The case in Scotland is small time compared with Jeremy's case plus Scotland is so less populated voices can be heard louder although they still have MOJ which are being fought with vigour such as Willie Gauge and Luke Mitchell.  I think the biggest obstacle regarding Jeremy is the 27 years evidence has been destroyed but I am sure he will gain his freedom.

[Moe Cassani]

Morning april1  Unfortunately the case against Jeremy is so riddled with lies and deception and happened so long ago the only people who may start listening is some MP with influence or if Simon MacKay can get some evidence released to prove Jeremy's innocence.  It seems to be a "closed shop" as far as the Judicial System is concerned.  The case in Scotland is small time compared with Jeremy's case plus Scotland is so less populated voices can be heard louder although they still have MOJ which are being fought with vigour such as Willie Gauge and Luke Mitchell.  I think the biggest obstacle regarding Jeremy is the 27 years evidence has been destroyed but I am sure he will gain his freedom.

Hi Susan,
That is very interesting. Can you tell me more about the lies and deception. I am trying to learn more about the case. 

[mike tesko]

The first shot was exploratory, the second shot specific - Sheila tried to kill herself, police finished the job off. Different guns used to fire the two original bullets PV/20 and PV19...

[Steve_uk]

The first shot was exploratory, the second shot specific - Sheila tried to kill herself, police finished the job off. Different guns used to fire the two original bullets PV/20 and PV19...

Of course the Jeremy supporters have to say that the Police moved the body,as evidence from forensic pathologist Dr. Martyn Ismail in 2002 suggests that Sheila was shot with her head propped up against the bedside cabinet,yet from the position of the back of the nightdress compared to the front someone had pulled her legs.(Point 518)

"518. To decide whether we considered that the interests of justice required that we heard Mr Ismail's evidence, we first had regard to the evidence that it was said that he could give. From the blood staining he concluded that following the second and fatal shot Sheila Caffell was lying almost flat on her back with her head propped against a bedside cabinet. For her then to slide to be found in the position depicted in the photographs would have required the downward force to be greater than the friction of her body against the floor. In his opinion this simply was not possible as there would only be the weight of the head providing the downward force. Therefore he concluded that an additional force would have been necessary. It could not have come from Sheila Caffell since the second shot would have been instantly fatal and thus she must have been moved by someone else, for example with her legs being pulled. He also considered that the weight and the friction between her skin and her nightdress was likely to have been less than the weight and friction between the nightdress and the carpet. Therefore, he would expect movement of the body within the nightdress rather than the body and clothing sliding together across the carpet. He pointed out that the photographs demonstrated this effect at the back of the nightdress with the nightdress staying rucked up in its original position. However the front of the nightdress had not demonstrated this effect. Accordingly Mr Ismail concluded that the nightdress had been pulled down after Sheila Caffell slid into her final position. Since on the evidence, she was dead by this stage, Mr Ismail concluded that some one else had arranged her nightdress. "

Was this another attempt by Jeremy to check that his sister was dead? Why did he not volunteer to intercede between Sheila and the family upon arrival at the farm,another indication that he knew all the occupants inside were dead..

[Steve_uk]

I suppose you'll next be suggesting that it was Jeremy who made the burn marks on the children, too?

Not to be forgotten or overlooked, of course is that Sheila thought she was once Joan of arc, and we all know what happened to her don't we? Sheila was fascinated with death, with fire and burning, and hellish beliefs, and this to my way of thinking is consistent with Sheila heating up the end of the guns barrel and burning Ralph with it on the back of his neck...

I didn't know there were burn marks on the twins-is this gruesome facetiousness on your part or verifiable truth?

[Steve_uk]

The first shot was exploratory, the second shot specific - Sheila tried to kill herself, police finished the job off. Different guns used to fire the two original bullets PV/20 and PV19...

Is there any evidence that two guns were used-I fell into this trap but going back to the original ballistics report it does state that all the bullets could have been fired by the .22 anschutz rifle.