Sheila attempted to commit suicide (but failed), and was shot by the police...

[curiousessex]

How come the photograph ex cop Jones took of the downstairs toilet at whf never found it way into the wrongly named MASTER COPY ALBUM containing all of 223 pictures, as presented by PC Bird? How could such a photographs be missing from such an album, and the police be treating it as a master copy album when it and another 357 photographs had also been omitted?

It's a fucking joke...

They acted and behaved like common criminals, the lot of them...

Mike

Rather than rant, why not just force their hand........... make arrangements to hand over to Jeremy's legal team or have published the alleged photograph of Sheila on the bed with a single gun shot wound to the neck.

Why have a go at Jones for not revealing an alleged photograph when it would appear you are doing the very same thing but with a different alleged photograph?

[Steve_uk]

Didn't Anthony Pargeter win a libel case suggesting that his rifle had been at White House Farm at the time of the killings? Are you saying there wasn't a silencer used at all in the crime as this contradicts Andrew Hunter's book draft? Are you suggesting that a speck of Sheila's blood had been placed in one of the silencers by one of the relatives?

[Martin]

Mike

Rather than rant, why not just force their hand........... make arrangements to hand over to Jeremy's legal team or have published the alleged photograph of Sheila on the bed with a single gun shot wound to the neck.

Why have a go at Jones for not revealing an alleged photograph when it would appear you are doing the very same thing but with a different alleged photograph?

Curiousessex, why don't you try to justify Jones's conduct rather than try to distract attention from it?

[mike tesko]

Mike I think it seemed apparent that jones didnt like Jeremys public school background. The fact he was a 'posh' boy seemed to annoy jones.imho

yes, Jonesy boy took an immediate dislike to Jeremy. But Jones woild do well to remember that on the day before Boutflour finds the Bamber silencer in the gun cupboard where it was normally kept, that both he and DCI "Taff" jones, had gone along to Jeremys cottage to speak to him about the state of the rifle on the evening before the shootings? They wanted to know if the silencer was fitted to the barrel of the anshulz rifle at that time?  This demonstrates that ex cop Jones knew about the existence of at least one silencer on the day before relatives found the other Bamber silencer in its gun cupboard? This is self- evident because on 7th August some 3 days before Boutflour took possession of the Bamber silencer from the gun cupboard, ex copper Jones had already taken possession of SBJ/1, the other silencer (belinging to the Pargeter gun) and what also seems to be so obvious is that during  the early stages police got themselves into a bit of a muddle regarding the existence of two identical looking silencers? So much so, that when on the afternoon of 12th August DS Jones learned from Robert Boutflour that a silencer had been found at the scene, he reportedly remarks, "what silencer"?

[mike tesko]

yes, Jonesy boy took an immediate dislike to Jeremy. But Jones woild do well to remember that on the day before Boutflour finds the Bamber silencer in the gun cupboard where it was normally kept, that both he and DCI "Taff" jones, had gone along to Jeremys cottage to speak to him about the state of the rifle on the evening before the shootings? They wanted to know if the silencer was fitted to the barrel of the anshulz rifle at that time?  This demonstrates that ex cop Jones knew about the existence of at least one silencer on the day before relatives found the other Bamber silencer in its gun cupboard? This is self- evident because on 7th August some 3 days before Boutflour took possession of the Bamber silencer from the gun cupboard, ex copper Jones had already taken possession of SBJ/1, the other silencer (belinging to the Pargeter gun) and what also seems to be so obvious is that during  the early stages police got themselves into a bit of a muddle regarding the existence of two identical looking silencers? So much so, that when on the afternoon of 12th August DS Jones learned from Robert Boutflour that a silencer had been found at the scene, he reportedly remarks, "what silencer"?

So, off he goes later that same evening to collect this other (Bamber) silencer, he already having seized and taken control of the first (Pargeter) silencer at the scene on 7th August...

[mike tesko]

So, off he goes later that same evening to collect this other (Bamber) silencer, he already having seized and taken control of the first (Pargeter) silencer at the scene on 7th August...

This is where problems started to mount up for the police regarding the silencer evidence. Since, as of the evening 12th August 1985, Essex police had now got two identical looking parker hale silencers under thier control and possession, the Pargeter one, and the Bamber one...

[mike tesko]

This is where problems started to mount up for the police regarding the silencer evidence. Since, as of the evening 12th August 1985, Essex police had now got two identical looking parker hale silencers under thier control and possession, the Pargeter one, and the Bamber one...

One of the silencers (Pargeters) was retained by DI Cook. The other (Bamber) was kept by DCI "Taff" Jones...

[lookout]

Did we ever see a pic of the damaged rifle.? I don't recollect having seen it,,yet by all accounts,,there was a piece out of it,,and doubtless would have been as efficient if it had had a bashing,I don't know. Depends what it was bashed against and whether the barrel was damaged as well.

To my mind,,a male wouldn't have have had the need to use a gun to bash anyone with. It was a female who needed a hand-held weapon in which to enforce a further show of strength.

[Steve_uk]

Did we ever see a pic of the damaged rifle.? I don't recollect having seen it,,yet by all accounts,,there was a piece out of it,,and doubtless would have been as efficient if it had had a bashing,I don't know. Depends what it was bashed against and whether the barrel was damaged as well.

To my mind,,a male wouldn't have have had the need to use a gun to bash anyone with. It was a female who needed a hand-held weapon in which to enforce a further show of strength.

Yet why press a heated rifle butt into the back of a 61 year old man? That in my opinion is more likely to be the action of a man than a woman.

[susan]

steve uk how do we know it was a heated rifle that inflicted the burn marks on Ralph's neck/back.  It has been suggested that it was a cigarette or cigar.  Had Jeremy committed the murders he would not have hung around marking Ralph's back it was more likely to have been carried out by somebody residing the farm.

[mertol22]

I was under the view these type of marks/burns were a trademark of the mob.

[tonyb]

If anyone knows this crook, please let him know we know about the four exhibits he took possession of from the scene, on morning of 7th August 1985 (whilst bodies of victims were still in  situ and being abused by officers carrying out a training exercise) under the identifying marks of SBJ/1 (silencer), SBJ/2, SBJ/3 and SBJ/4...

Out of order mate...

So you must think that its ok for a crooked cop to falsify a bit of evidence here and there? Jones is basically a crooked bastard, and a lying cunt, and he has got away with falsifying evidence for nigh on 27 years, and it is now time to set the record straight. If I have got anything at all to do with it, he ain't going to be getting away with it for much longer...

Out of order Mike?
I've got used to the occasional rant but I don't think this particular obscenity should be on your forum

[Jane]

Mike I think it seemed apparent that jones didnt like Jeremys public school background. The fact he was a 'posh' boy seemed to annoy jones.imho

I think it's more than possible that Jones displayed the type of venom towards Jeremy, that Mike is now displaying towards him, but for different reasons.

[susan]

After reading last nights posts a poster  stated cops don't move evidence or withhold it.  A cop has just been jailed in the Scottish Courts today for withholding evidence which resulted in two  innocent men being sent to prison they served 10 years but were released after Appeal.  The cop was I think a Detective and this was his first murder case and he wanted to solve it quickly and he did that alright. The cop got 5 years not enough in my eyes he knew both men were innocent but still wanted them convicted.  Disgrace.

[lookout]

After reading last nights posts a poster  stated cops don't move evidence or withhold it.  A cop has just been jailed in the Scottish Courts today for withholding evidence which resulted in two  innocent men being sent to prison they served 10 years but were released after Appeal.  The cop was I think a Detective and this was his first murder case and he wanted to solve it quickly and he did that alright. The cop got 5 years not enough in my eyes he knew both men were innocent but still wanted them convicted.  Disgrace.

Hi Susan,,it was that Sammy who'd said that. I suggest it takes off its rose-coloured specs for starters and step into the real world of corruption. There are also those who are suspended/dismissed that we don't know about.