Sheila attempted to commit suicide (but failed), and was shot by the police...

[lookout]

I agree, even if they killed her accidentally they would not need to cover it up.....

Boheme,,,if the police can sit on evidence for 16 years, of a chap who I know,who served 18 years until 2010,,,then they can do anything. I don't go along with the question " why didn't they say anything ".

[Jane]

I keep asking this question - why did they need to cover anything up? Given the supposed situation it wouldn't have mattered if she'd died in a hail of police bullets. In your scenario, why, having found her collapsed on the bed, would they feel the need to place the gun in such a position to make it appear like suicide? And again, if they accidentally shot her whilst positioning the gun, they could simply have said that it went off when they were trying to take it from her.

Absolutely Bridget. But at some point I think that eyes were taken off balls and discipline and order started to disintegrate. This was not a typical casebook scenario, there was no precedent. This one must have been horror heaped on horror, so if a junior member of the team finds his hands are shaking when he places the gun in Sheila's hand, pointing towards the already inflicted neckwound, it should come as no surprise. Did he vomit as a result? who is there to spill beans?

Under ANY other circumstances, reports would have had to be made, questions would have to be answered. How would they explain how a "body" got up and walked? They went for damage limitation.They had gone in expecting to find 4 murders and 1 suicide, and but for a blip, that's what they still had and nobody need be any the wiser. By closing ranks, they may have saved the career of a terrified rooky, they most certainly had saved themselves a serious reprimand or even demotion. They believed that as there was nobody to witness what had happened, they were safe, and they were..............for 33 days.

[Roch]

they were safe, and they were..............for 33 days.

I don't think they were safe from much earlier than 33 days because the machinations and pressure started from the off.

[Bridget]

Absolutely Bridget. But at some point I think that eyes were taken off balls and discipline and order started to disintegrate. This was not a typical casebook scenario, there was no precedent. This one must have been horror heaped on horror, so if a junior member of the team finds his hands are shaking when he places the gun in Sheila's hand, pointing towards the already inflicted neckwound, it should come as no surprise. Did he vomit as a result? who is there to spill beans?

Under ANY other circumstances, reports would have had to be made, questions would have to be answered. How would they explain how a "body" got up and walked? They went for damage limitation.They had gone in expecting to find 4 murders and 1 suicide, and but for a blip, that's what they still had and nobody need be any the wiser. By closing ranks, they may have saved the career of a terrified rooky, they most certainly had saved themselves a serious reprimand or even demotion. They believed that as there was nobody to witness what had happened, they were safe, and they were..............for 33 days.

Given the fact that she had a lacerated jugular vein and fractured vertebrea in her neck, the fact that none of her blood was found anywhere other than in the main bedroom, the fact that there was no blood on her which could be attributed to having been standing up, let alone running around, and the fact that she had no one else's blood on her including Ralph's (etc.) I don't accept that she was ever in the kitchen.

That said, if I go along with your assertion that she was, they were a firearms team, not doctors. If she miraculously revived and appeared upstairs, so what? Why would anyone think "oh dear - I'm going to look a bit of a prick here - I'd better just stage this so it looks like she killed herself here.."? How would that even help them seeing as she was supposed to be in the kitchen?

The assertion that they all closed ranks to save the career of some rooky just doesn't add up. To get to that position you would have to have an officer who for reasons I cannot fathom thought that the fact that Sheila had moved was so detrimental to his career he had to stage a suicide in a different room. Then he has to accidentally kill her. Then, rather than just taking the easy route and saying she resisted when they tried to take the gun from her and it went off, they all decide to stage the body in a manner which is apparently completely obviously staged, and risk all of their careers by lying about it for 27 years, sure in the knowledge none of the raid team, SOCO, doctors or scientists would ever break ranks and blab, even though an innocent man was framed and there was a £1,000,000 reward.

Nope, not buying that.

[lebaleb]

I have to agree with you Bridget on the cover up. I could see someone pulling down her nightgown to make her decent and moving the bible after they accidentally pushed it [a door has been suggested]. However, she could have been in the kitchen before she shot herself and had Ralph's blood on her. Blood is very easily washed off, I've cut myself shaving enough times to know. The pile of cushions with someone's blood in the center and the towel on the pool of Ralph's blood need expanation.

[tonyb]

Sorry about spelling mistakes - well, police state categorically that no-one moved or touched anything until after PC Bird took his crime scene pictures, but they have lied...

look at the pictures PC Bird took, and we can all see the police have lied, and that in fact they did n=move things around whilst PC Bird was taking his pictures...

You do not tell lies of this nature unless you are trying to cover something up...

"Oh, look, we shot and killed Sheila, but it doesn't matter because she was already pronounced as being dead by the police surgeon at 8:44am"...

If you get my drift?

Classic Mike,Classic. 

[mike tesko]

How can you kill someone who has already been pronounced as being dead at 8;44am by a police surgeon?

[mike tesko]

One of the difficulties of trying to prove Sheila committed suicide, is that she didn't...

[jim ignatowski]

One of the difficulties of trying to prove Sheila committed suicide, is that she didn't...

At last Mike, we can agree upon something lol

[mike tesko]

At last Mike, we can agree upon something lol

But..

She did attempt to take her own life...

[mike tesko]

Jeremy ended up being convicted of these murders that he did not commit, because he wrongly relied on Sheila having committed suicide when she did not, and because the trial judge took the ability of the jury to conclude that she may have died at the hands of a third party, away from them?

[mike tesko]

Jeremy ended up being convicted of these murders that he did not commit, because he wrongly relied on Sheila having committed suicide when she did not, and because the trial judge took the ability of the jury to conclude that she may have died at the hands of a third party away from them?

This was done based on the judge trying to put the jury in its place over the possible involvement of a hitman hired by Bamber to carry out the murders, not that the police had not been responsible for shooting Sheila in the bedroom? If all the evidence which is now known had been available to Bamber and the court there would have been a compelling case that police directly or indirectly killed Sheila upstairs in the bedroom, and stage managed her body...

[Steve_uk]

This was done based on the judge trying to put the jury in its place over the possible involvement of a hitman hired by Bamber to carry out the murders, not that the police had not been responsible for shooting Sheila in the bedroom? If all the evidence which is now known had been available to Bamber and the court there would have been a compelling case that police directly or indirectly killed Sheila upstairs in the bedroom, and stage managed her body...

The problem with this scenario is that DCI Taff Jones who was in charge of the investigation at the outset was content with the "four murders and a suicide" theory which had been cleverly put to all and sundry by the ubiquitous Jeremy who always seems to be sniffing around somewhere or other. It was the junior ranks from which the discontent arose about how events were being interpreted and they found their mouthpiece in DS Stan Jones,which is when the interest began to be focused on Jeremy.

[mike tesko]

The problem with this scenario is that DCI Taff Jones who was in charge of the investigation at the outset was content with the "four murders and a suicide" theory which had been cleverly put to all and sundry by the ubiquitous Jeremy who always seems to be sniffing around somewhere or other. It was the junior ranks from which the discontent arose about how events were being interpreted and they found their mouthpiece in DS Stan Jones,which is when the interest began to be focused on Jeremy.

There is no problem, DS"Stan" Jones was / is a criminal - he found and took possession of a silencer at the scene bearing the original exhibit reference SBJ/1. Lets get the facts right about this bent ex copper. He left Jeremys cottage at about 11am or soon afterwards or whenever and he went back to the scene at whf and took possession of four exhibits which were documented in the property registers when the case was being investivated as four murders and a suicide (SC/688/85). One of these exhibits was the original silencer, and another was a photograph of the downstairs toilet showing Anthony Pargeters .22 bolt action rifle in there. Once the nature of the investigation changed a month later,  these four exhibits that DS Jones had seized disappeared and were not listed in the hastely rewritten property registers. Suddenly exbibits SBJ/1, SBJ/2, SBJ/3 and SBJ/4 vanished from the system, it was as if DS Jones had never found or seized them from the scene at all on the morning of the shootings...

This had to be done so that the silencer found in the gun cupboard by the relatives later on could be integrated into the equation. Jones is / was a criminal who was and is responsible for inciting other crooks to conspire to get Bamber convicted of the murders. I wonder why he never made a witness statement about him taking possession of those four exhibits (SBJ/1, SBJ/2, SBJ/3 and SBJ/4)?

[mike tesko]

There is no problem, DS"Stan" Jones was / is a criminal - he found and took possession of a silencer at the scene bearing the original exhibit reference SBJ/1. Lets get the facts right about this bent ex copper. He left Jeremys cottage at about 11am or soon afterwards or whenever and he went back to the scene at whf and took possession of four exhibits which were documented in the property registers when the case was being investivated as four murders and a suicide (SC/688/85). One of these exhibits was the original silencer, and another was a photograph of the downstairs toilet showing Anthony Pargeters .22 bolt action rifle in there. Once the nature of the investigation changed a month later,  these four exhibits that DS Jones had seized disappeared and were not listed in the hastely rewritten property registers. Suddenly exbibits SBJ/1, SBJ/2, SBJ/3 and SBJ/4 vanished from the system, it was as if DS Jones had never found or seized them from the scene at all on the morning of the shootings...

This had to be done so that the silencer found in the gun cupboard by the relatives later on could be integrated into the equation. Jones is / was a criminal who was and is responsible for inciting other crooks to conspire to get Bamber convicted of the murders. I wonder why he never made a witness statement about him taking possession of those four exhibits (SBJ/1, SBJ/2, SBJ/3 and SBJ/4)?

Ex cop Jones, is a criminal, a lying no good son of a bitch, he deserves to be locked up in jail and the key thrown away...

Rewind the clock to the evening of 12th August 1985, he goes and supposedly collects the other silencer from Peter Eaton - hang on a minute, at that moment ex cop Jones knew there were in fact two silencers which had found their way into his possession (1) which he took possession of at the scene on 7th August 1985, under the identifying mark of SBJ/1, and (2) this second silencer which was handed to him by Peter Eaton on evening of 12th August 1985. Two silencers which had by that stage passed through ex crooked cop Jones' hands at an early stage of the original investigation...