Why is the gun cupboard empty

[snow66!]

Why would Sheila, if she'd just murdered her entire family, prior to committing suicide, bother to hide evidence of what she'd done? That makes even less sense!

lWell, it was claimed it may have been ritualistic rather than hiding evidence I believe,Jane!

[Jane]

lWell, it was claimed it may have been ritualistic rather than hiding evidence I believe,Jane!

Was it? I know changing clothes, washing, can be ritualistic -although given the numerous descriptions of Sheila during her last fortnight, personal hygiene didn't come high up the list- but I've yet to hear that placing silencers at the back of gun cupboards fits the same bill.

[Rob_]

No no, what i've said there is just nonsense! It obviously wouldn't matter whose blood was on, or inside the silencer except Sheila's!
If it was found beside Sheila that is!

the two shots to Sheila are contact shots Snow and there is no evidence the silencer was on the rifle when she was shot. So whether JB is guilty or innocent Sheila's blood should no have even been in the silencer.

If Bamber leaves the silencer beside Sheila in a area of high blood flow he is home and dry in my view. If he leaves it in the cupboard he gives it a dam good clean first! and to make sure he does not let anyone have the keys to the house!         

[Hardy Boy]

Not sure about JB being in a hurry, HB? Not if he heated something up to burn Nevill!
Thinking about it, it seems a bit absurd to use the silencer at all and then hide it, after all, any human blood found on it would mean that it had been used, wouldn't it?
Nevill, June, Sheila the boys, it wouldn't matter!
Did JB really think that telling the police that the gun was left out without the silencer would suffice?
Very peculliar indeed!

Theres no evidence anything was heated up to burn Neville’s back at all,  again your working on hindsight and not what Bamber had to deal with.   In the heat of the moment or at the time,  Bamber, had to remove what he thought was making suicide look implausible and the priority would be removing what made the rifle look too long for Sheila to commit suicide, he hadn’t time to do a forensic audit as well.  Telling the Police he left the Rifle out minus the silencer was a simple explanation for him, nothing is a guarantee in murder and that’s why murderers get caught.

[Hardy Boy]

the two shots to Sheila are contact shots Snow and there is no evidence the silencer was on the rifle when she was shot. So whether JB is guilty or innocent Sheila's blood should no have even been in the silencer.

If Bamber leaves the silencer beside Sheila in a area of high blood flow he is home and dry in my view. If he leaves it in the cupboard he gives it a dam good clean first! and to make sure he does not let anyone have the keys to the house!         

This isn’t about being “home and dry”, it’s about rushed decisions, in the heat of the moment and  not forensic perfection.  Panic doesn’t allow perfect decisions and Leaving the silencer out would draw attention,  putting it away nearly worked for him, and the minute trace blood found fits rushed judgement.

The Keys were allowed to be given to Anne for cleaning purposes, this was vital for Bamber, it would mean evidence gathering was done with, and the investigation within WHF was finished and  Bamber would have hated cleaning up after murdering his entire family.

[Jane]

This isn’t about being “home and dry”, it’s about rushed decisions, in the heat of the moment and  not forensic perfection.  Panic doesn’t allow perfect decisions and Leaving the silencer out would draw attention,  putting it away nearly worked for him, and the minute trace blood found fits rushed judgement.

The Keys were allowed to be given to Anne for cleaning purposes, this was vital for Bamber, it would mean evidence gathering was done with, and the investigation within WHF was finished and  Bamber would have hated cleaning up after murdering his entire family.

And, naturally, he'd want cleaning "done and dusted" sooner than possible. Once it was done, all trace of the murderer would be eliminated for good.

[snow66!]

the two shots to Sheila are contact shots Snow and there is no evidence the silencer was on the rifle when she was shot. So whether JB is guilty or innocent Sheila's blood should no have even been in the silencer.

If Bamber leaves the silencer beside Sheila in a area of high blood flow he is home and dry in my view. If he leaves it in the cupboard he gives it a dam good clean first! and to make sure he does not let anyone have the keys to the house!         

Yes, thats true, Rob!
JB could have left the silencer in the pool of blood beside the Bible, then it would have been no surprise if Sheila's blood got inside the silencer!

[Hardy Boy]

And, naturally, he'd want cleaning "done and dusted" sooner than possible. Once it was done, all trace of the murderer would be eliminated for good.

Bamber was told the Police examination of WHF was completed, as far as he was concerned it was job done.  Stan specifically says the keys were handed at 9.00pm to Anne Eaton on the 9th as Police investigation having been completed.

[Hardy Boy]

Yes, thats true, Rob!
JB could have left the silencer in the pool of blood beside the Bible, then it would have been no surprise if Sheila's blood got inside the silencer!

Again, that might have caused problems for him, because blood doesn’t conveniently pool under an object already lying on the floor,  it flows around it, leaving voids, edges, or patterns that would draw attention,  and it wouldn’t necessarily flow inside the silencer, why take that risk when removing it from the scene was a better option for him?

[Hardy Boy]

When? By who? Why? Either DB is lying or somebody emptied the cupboard.

The gun cupboard was emptied by the family and D Bird took photos of the empty gun cupboard on the 23rd of September at 2pm he took measurements inside the cupboard as well. 


At 2pm  on Monday 23 September 1985: again I went to White House Farm when I took photographs of the interior of the gun cupboard under
The  stairs in the  downstairs office, which are included in the: photographic album reference Ai24/85, the maximum height of the
interior of the  cupboard is 49" and the depth 29".

[Rob_]

Again, that might have caused problems for him, because blood doesn’t conveniently pool under an object already lying on the floor,  it flows around it, leaving voids, edges, or patterns that would draw attention,  and it wouldn’t necessarily flow inside the silencer, why take that risk when removing it from the scene was a better option for him?

Take a risk! and putting it in the cupboard is not taking a risk! It was only a case of when it would be found not if.

It would take Bamber only a few seconds to watch the direction of blood flow and place the silencer in a suitable place.

He would have known the silencer was too long when on the rifle for Sheila to shoot herself, he was a competent shooter.

If guilty he would have never let anyone else have the keys to the house. 

[Jane]

Take a risk! and putting it in the cupboard is not taking a risk! It was only a case of when it would be found not if.

It would take Bamber only a few seconds to watch the direction of blood flow and place the silencer in a suitable place.

He would have known the silencer was too long when on the rifle for Sheila to shoot herself, he was a competent shooter.

If guilty he would have never let anyone else have the keys to the house.

I'd have agreed had it been placed where it could be seen as soon as the door opened, but it was put "at the thin end of the wedge". It could have been weeks before it was found. Why would Sheila have bothered?

[Rob_]

And, naturally, he'd want cleaning "done and dusted" sooner than possible. Once it was done, all trace of the murderer would be eliminated for good.

Not if he knew there were loose ends in the house that needed tidying up, the silencer and hidden phone for example.

Bamber could never be sure he was safe, someone could come forward days or weeks latter saying they saw a cyclist on the sea wall in the middle of the night or something like that on hearing of the tragedy.

[Rob_]

I'd have agreed had it been placed where it could be seen as soon as the door opened, but it was put "at the thin end of the wedge". It could have been weeks before it was found. Why would Sheila have bothered?

Sheila never touched the silencer that night Jane, I would have thought Bamber would have got a spare silencer a chucked it in the sea if he was going to use one?

After all he is going to shoot five people, it's no ordinary crime he would have expected the police to be highly suspicious.

All it would need was a broken cobweb around one of the windows and the police would be sniffing all over the place.

[Hardy Boy]

Take a risk! and putting it in the cupboard is not taking a risk! It was only a case of when it would be found not if.

It would take Bamber only a few seconds to watch the direction of blood flow and place the silencer in a suitable place.

He would have known the silencer was too long when on the rifle for Sheila to shoot herself, he was a competent shooter.

If guilty he would have never let anyone else have the keys to the house.

  Of course the silencer would be located at some stage, but being found later doesn’t automatically make it suspicious,  being found at the scene matters to Bamber because it becomes part of the crime scene.  I suppose killers in a panic routinely stop to observe blood-flow patterns before making decisions to placements of the Silencer.

Being a competent shooter doesn’t mean he’d practised staging suicides,   this wasn’t something he’d ever done before.  So firearm experience doesn’t automatically mean your rehearsed in decisions of this nature.