CAL - Twins being shot once each with shots 10 & 11.

[ILB]

D'eath says -

'The sea wall encircled the camp, the bit around was tarmacked so that people could walk or ride a bike along with ease. It was always busy during weekends and school holidays. Families would go to their vans and spend the entire holidays there. Fathers would either travel back and forth to work or stay from Friday night to Sunday night there. Children would be up late; barbeques were a group affair where several families would get together and party sometimes till the early hours.

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This is about the caravan site and the 'tarmaked' Sea Wall 'encircling' it.

Bamber's route was 5 miles away.

She doesn't mention the sea wall past osea

She is on about Bambers route from gold hanger to d arcy sea wall

[ILB]

Perhaps it is time to ask De ath herself what she thinks.

[Steve_uk]

CAL says -

'After showering, he changed into new clothes from his old bedroom, pushing the others into a bag for disposal later'.

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The showering, clothes washing & changing could have been done at WHF or Goldhanger.

I believe he did these at Goldhanger.

Once the clothes were washed & hanging up, that was sufficient in 1985.

But what does that mean exactly, "pushing the others into a bag for disposal later"? He has a problem in that he can't do a washing cycle (like David Bain), if he buries them along the cycle route they may be found. He could burn them in the Aga, I suppose. Or he hung the clothes back up in the wardrobe at Bourtree Cottage, with blood specks invisible to the naked eye, though would have to dispose of any overalls he wore, so yet another problem.

[ILB]

The only way to access Bamber's route was -

Via Pages Lane.

Via Fish Street.

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No reason why anyone would choose to go to these two very remote entrances at 2am. 

To access an even more remote area which had no lighting, shops or amenities.

You know accept there was five fields between the wall and the rear of his property.

Eventually! Thank you

[ILB]

But what does that mean exactly, "pushing the others into a bag for disposal later"? He has a problem in that he can't do a washing cycle (like David Bain), if he buries them along the cycle route they may be found. He could burn them in the Aga, I suppose. Or he hung the clothes back up in the wardrobe at Bourtree Cottage, with blood specks invisible to the naked eye, though would have to dispose of any overalls he wore, so yet another problem.

The washing probably sat in the washer at bourtree post it's cycle when he was giving his statement.

When the officers went he probably stuck it back through the washer and then hung it out the next day. No reason for the police to be suspicious at all at that point. It was murder suicide.

Julie makes no mention of him using the washer, but I suppose she would have no reason to do so. He may have just simply mixed his murder clothes with his normal clobber and washed it. Also if he did tell her that Matthew had done it she would have no reason to believe he had been at the murder scene anyway.

[Steve_uk]

I would drive.

I wouldn't want to mess around on a bike.

I would want to be in and out and back to my cottage.

The longer I'm out and about the bigger risk I have of getting nicked.

It's that simple.

People in rural areas do tend to be nosier, curtains twitching, listening for car engines revving (as Dorothy Foakes heard upon him leaving White House Farm). Under cover of darkness it's far likelier he cycled or walked.

[ILB]

People in rural areas do tend to be nosier, curtains twitching, listening for car engines revving (as Dorothy Foakes heard upon him leaving White House Farm). Under cover of darkness it's far likelier he cycled or walked.

Yeah she heard him at 9.30pm, she was still awake.

The person who said they saw his car at around midnight after leaving the pub probably did. He probably didn't set off till 2am.

[ILB]

If someone was woken up to a car revving on his street at that time they would think the car is being nicked if anything.

But he wouldn't rev it, turn on the key, into first, handbrake off, gone.

But no one will jump out of slumber to a car engine turning over.

A knackered loud van like my tipper, perhaps yes

[ILB]

It's just too much pissing around cycling.

1 hour ten round trip via the sea wall. Too long

Too risky.

Can make a round car trip journey at a fast pace in 12 minutes.

[Jane]

She doesn't mention the sea wall past osea

She is on about Bambers route from gold hanger to d arcy sea wall

How else would she get from Osea to Goldhanger in order to reach D'Arcy from Goldhanger?

[Steve_uk]

In the opposite direction!

I'm not entirely certain how au fait you are with the local geography as you seemed not to know where Vaulty was in relation to Goldhanger. It, too, like Osea Leisure, is in the opposite direction. JB, en route to WHF, by whatever means, would have no need to go to it, near it, or by it. Ergo, however "heavily populated" Barbara D'Ath claimed the sea wall to be between Osea and Goldhanger is of no moment. JB's seawall route went, in the opposite direction, between Goldhanger and Tollesbury.

I never regarded Barbara De'Ath as a competent witness. More a raconteuse if anything.

[Jane]

But what does that mean exactly, "pushing the others into a bag for disposal later"? He has a problem in that he can't do a washing cycle (like David Bain), if he buries them along the cycle route they may be found. He could burn them in the Aga, I suppose. Or he hung the clothes back up in the wardrobe at Bourtree Cottage, with blood specks invisible to the naked eye, though would have to dispose of any overalls he wore, so yet another problem.

The last thing he could do would be to burn them in the Aga. A) the aperture wasn't large enough. B) the flame would have been extinguished. Nothing to stop him taking them home and putting them in his own washing machine, though. A perfectly normal thing to do after a day's wear at harvest time.

[Steve_uk]

The washing probably sat in the washer at bourtree post it's cycle when he was giving his statement.

When the officers went he probably stuck it back through the washer and then hung it out the next day. No reason for the police to be suspicious at all at that point. It was murder suicide.

Julie makes no mention of him using the washer, but I suppose she would have no reason to do so. He may have just simply mixed his murder clothes with his normal clobber and washed it. Also if he did tell her that Matthew had done it she would have no reason to believe he had been at the murder scene anyway.

Risky to have murder garb lying in situ, with Stan Jones poking around listening behind doors and a curious Ann Eaton and others crowded into a small space.

[Jane]

I never regarded Barbara De'Ath as a competent witness. More a raconteuse if anything.

With an axe to grind?

[Adam]

I don't believe 20 minutes of cycling from one property to another is 'too much pissing about'.

Millions of people do this every day. Day and night. Through choice 

To get to work or other places. Often for much longer than 20 minutes and in more dangerous circumstances. In busy high speed traffic.

Cycling had the big advantage that he would not pass any properties.