Disturbing new Evidence - police show Jeremy photo' of mothers body in kitchen

[mike tesko]

yes but before that ralph said " sheilas gone crazy" and has got the gun.

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Ralph could have said, "She has gone crazy", and "She has got the gun", which sounds very similar to "Sheila has gone crazy" and "Sheila has got the gun" - Jeremy covers this point in one of the police interviews that I am due to post later on this evening...

What this is leading up to, is the possibility that Sheila and June may have at one stage or another during the incident both had possession of a gun each, or of the same gun, and there is a very good chance that June Bamber loaded additional bullets into one of the guns ammunition magazines, and the police failed to take hand swabs to prove that she did, or as the case may be, to establish that she did not?

Now...

"Sheila's gone crazy" - "She has gone crazy"?

"Sheila has got the gun" and "She has got the gun"?

Sheila's gone crazy" and "He has gone crazy"?

"She has gone crazy" and "He has gone crazy"?

Now, what I suggest you readers do, is read the police interviews of Jeremy that I will be posting this evening, and bear these points in mind, since, it is still possible that Ralph Told Jeremy, that "She has gone crazy" and "She has got the gun" rather than "Sheila has gone crazy" and "Sheila has got the gun", and that this could at that stage been a reference to June going crazy, and June having the gun?...

Alternatively...

Could Ralph have simply said, "He has gone crazy" and "He has got the gun?






That seems to me to be a very important point...

[mike tesko]

well yes its strange that he made a statement saying it was june, is the statement on here or are you uploading it mike?

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I will be posting the relevant statement to facilitate debate tomorrow...

[shonapugs]

I think that, out of what little evidence that is left, we can be sure that June was shot in her bed, sat up, looked round for Ralph (IMO) then made it as far as the door before finally being shot between her eyes.

[mike tesko]

I will admit I am very new to this forum and this case and the thought of the mother doing it did cross my mind as we all know that some fundamentalist believers in religion are capable of doing awful things under the pretense of god, The reasons I thought this was June's firm religious beliefs and the bible next to Shelia, but I really don't see this one being like that. The wounds speak for themselves in my humble opinion.

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So, why did PC Collins make a statement weeks later saying that he reported seeing a dead female in the kitchen through the kitchen window, and at that time he thought the body was that of June Bamber?

[andrea]

i think this may confuse things even more now mike.

[Roch]

Is this not just one of two possibilities?:

1] When looking through the window Collins genuinely mistook the flopped forward hair of Nevill for June.

2] He's trying to play down Sheila being found downstairs, by using the above.

[mike tesko]

I think that, out of what little evidence that is left, we can be sure that June was shot in her bed, sat up, looked round for Ralph (IMO) then made it as far as the door before finally being shot between her eyes.

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I am not so sure, its as simple as that?

There are conflicting accounts about how many times June was shot whilst she was in bed?

Some say she was shot twice there, other accounts say as many as five times?

Now...

Lets say she was shot twice in bed, or on the bed, these could have been shots fired at her after she fell back onto the bed, as a result of being wounded, when she was out of the bed - so, I don't think you can definitely say that June was in bed when the shooting started, for these reasons...

[andrea]

Is this not just one of two possibilities?:

1] When looking through the window Collins genuinely mistook the flopped forward hair of Nevill for June.

2] He's trying to play down Sheila being found downstairs, by using the above.

point 2 roch, hmm interesting

[mike tesko]

Is this not just one of two possibilities?:

1] When looking through the window Collins genuinely mistook the flopped forward hair of Nevill for June.

2] He's trying to play down Sheila being found downstairs, by using the above.

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These are good points...

However, I take issue with (1) because from the vantage point of the kitchen window, PC Collins could not possible have seen the body of Ralph Bamber sat on the wooden chair behind or in front of the internal kitchen door, because the angle is too acute, so for this reason I discount that explanation...


As for (2), I can buy into this explanation...

[andrea]

mike was it collins along with delgado that questioned the position of sheilas body and the bible?

[Alias]

I have always had a hard time accepting that the angle from the kitchen window was too acute. To me it looks like you could easily see the whole Aga cooker and a little more to the left of it. I may be wrong of course - just looks like that from looking at photos and floor-plans.

[mike tesko]

Perhaps, Hartley could be persuaded to arrange for photographs to be taken, showing the actual view from the vantage point of the kitchen window, looking into the direction of the internal door, and vice versa, so that we can put this matter to bed so to speak?

I'd even volunteer to pose in the photographs myself if the relatives would invite me...

I did meet them very briefly a few years ago when I turned up at a Shareholders meeting, but I was prevented from actually being present, and had to wait in the car park at Osea road Camp site, - but the relatives got their gardener to make me a nice cup of tea whilst I waited patiently outside for my friend and colleague...

Can't see any prospects of me being invited for tea to whf, though...

[Roch]

Is this not just one of two possibilities?:

1] When looking through the window Collins genuinely mistook the flopped forward hair of Nevill for June.

2] He's trying to play down Sheila being found downstairs, by using the above.

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These are good points...

However, I take issue with (1) because from the vantage point of the kitchen window, PC Collins could not possible have seen the body of Ralph Bamber sat on the wooden chair behind or in front of the internal kitchen door, because the angle is too acute, so for this reason I discount that explanation...


As for (2), I can buy into this explanation...

Kaldin got a few of us to look through our kitchen windows to see what could be seen. Acute angle left is how I looked. I had a problem with reflection on the window pane but I could make out the kitchen wall, where it met the very end of the kitchen bench. 

[Alias]

Perhaps, Hartley could be persuaded to arrange for photographs to be taken, showing the actual view from the vantage point of the kitchen window, looking into the direction of the internal door, and vice versa, so that we can put this matter to bed so to speak?

I'd even volunteer to pose in the photographs myself if the relatives would invite me...I did meet them very briefly a few years ago when I turned up at a Shareholders meeting, but I was prevented from actually being present, and had to wait in the car park at Osea road Camp site, - but the relatives got their gardener to make me a nice cup of tea whilst I waited patiently outside for my friend and colleague...

Can't see any prospects of me being invited for tea to whf, though...

LOL

[mike tesko]

I have always had a hard time accepting that the angle from the kitchen window was too acute. To me it looks like you could easily see the whole Aga cooker and a little more to the left of it. I may be wrong of course - just looks like that from looking at photos and floor-plans.

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If you ever saw the TV documentary, "Killing mum and dad" you would have seen the angle I am talking about which was covered very well by the cameraman...

Impossible to have been able to see anybody sat on a wooden chair behind that internal door from the vantage point of the kitchen window (outside)?