Author Topic: False Alibi.  (Read 19029 times)

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Offline Faithlilly

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Re: False Alibi.
« Reply #30 on: July 02, 2022, 04:02:PM »

Three people not one, saw the same youth in the exact same heavier outerwear. Khaki green army style coat. The exact same hairstyle, perfectly described as being similar to the actor who played 'Shaggy' in the 2002 adaption of Scooby Doo, and the same as the Gallagher brother from the band Oasis. It was LM, and all three identified the youth as being him. Further bollocks of attempting to say this was two separate people, utter nonsense. It was the same person, there was not twins walking about anywhere in those quiet areas together.


Khaki green army style coat? Andrina Bryson described the coat her sighting was wearing as ‘a green, fishing style jacket with lots of pockets and matching trousers. The jacket had a high collar and was waist length’ The parka that was allegedly bought to replace the burned parka had two, almost invisible pockets at the front and a hood not a collar. Generally parkas are mid thigh length not waist length. This was true of Luke’s ‘replacement’ parka too. Nowhere in her states does Andrina describe her sighting’s jacket as an army style coat. Of course the German army style shirt, also bought after the 4th of July raid, was also in the frame as being the murder garb but that was very much not disposed of. Of course it’s worth pointing out at the juncture that Andrina, during her court testimony, made it absolutely clear that the jacket of her sighting ‘WAS NOT A PARKA’ but simply the nearest to it of the pictures she was shown.

A similar conjuring trick was also wrought on the Lorraine Fleming/Rosemary Walsh sighting. No army style coats there either. Lorraine’s sighting in her first statement was wearing a dark jacket, hip length and might have been waterproof. In her second she added that the jacket was dark green. Nowhere did she describe a military type jacket. Rosemary, her sister-in-law’s description was similar.

The exact same hairstyle? Andrina’s sighting had ‘sandy brown hair, sticking up in a clump at the back and very thick’. Lorraine’s sighting had ‘ dark hair which was straight and straggly looking and may have been wet or gelled’. In her second statement she added that the youth’s hair was ‘the same as Liam Gallagher and just over collar length.’ Rosemary described the youth’s hair as ‘sticking closely to his head’. Perhaps the Shaggy description was added for colour in court but it certainly wasn’t in either of the woman’s police statements.

What is strange about the Walsh/Fleming sighting is that although the road would have busy at the time (busy enough for at least 6 people to see someone who we know was Luke) and made worse no doubt by the roadworks on the Newbattle Road, not one other person saw the individual described by Lorraine and Rosemary at the point that they saw him or indeed on that stretch of the road before the gate at all.

There was only one boy similar to Luke on the Newbattle Road that night. It was Luke, the sister-in-laws simply misremembered where.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2022, 09:40:AM by Faithlilly »

Offline Faithlilly

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Re: False Alibi.
« Reply #31 on: July 02, 2022, 04:40:PM »

All this LM had no time! Dam right he didn't, he had absolutely no time to be faffing about. He had certain things that he had NO choice but to do. The first being contacting that girls house to make it appear as if no meeting had taken place. Next he needed cleaned and out of those clothes as a matter of urgency. He was the only person this girl was to be with. Seen again by F&W. LM needed back on that road, to be seen to be waiting, in different clothing. And again, he had NO time to be hanging around for any lengthy period of time. He needed to arrange disposal of evidence and he needed that alibi story in place. He is seen and he is off. Not seen again until touching 7:30pm.


Timescale of the 30th June 2003 after Jodi’s murder.

17.15 Prosecution believe Jodi was murder around this time.

17.40-45. Sighting by Fleming/Walsh.

17.55-18.00 Luke seen wearing a bomber jacket by boys he knows.

18.00 Marion O’Sullivan and Derek Hamilton see an individual they described as ‘ " wearing a green bomber jacket and dark jeans”. In court they don’t identify Luke but it’s clear that it was Luke, due to the clothing. This also illustrates the fallibility of eyewitness testimony.

18.05 Luke seen wearing bomber jacket by Carol Heatlie.

18.15-18.30 Seen again by earlier witnesses who knew Luke.

18.30 Luke headed towards the Abbey.

19.00 At the Abbey with David High and friends.

“ Tulloch and Mitchell shared a good mutual friend in David High. They were not bosom buddies but Tulloch revealed Luke was happy to pass cannabis around.

He said: 'That night I got a phone call from David High, who was pals with Luke.

'We went up to meet him at the college at about 7pm and we just mucked about.”

So contrary to the picture you are attempting to paint it is possible that Luke stood on the Newbattle Road for at least 35 minutes until 18.30 and met his friends at 19.00 at the Abbey.

« Last Edit: July 03, 2022, 09:42:AM by Faithlilly »

Offline Faithlilly

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Re: False Alibi.
« Reply #32 on: July 02, 2022, 05:16:PM »

They chose to have that fire, it takes time to burn stuff down. LM could NOT afford to speed anything up, he could NOT risk phoning that girls house back, speeding up any alert. SL and again, complete and utter bollocks, the police were never going to suddenly arrive at his door. He knew that should discovery have happened, it would be a time consuming task of identity. Without a doubt there was a risk that this girls parents may have contacted him, for any reason. Keeping himself away from home, and in the company of others for further alibi. Away from the fire.

More cock and bull, that he arrived home early, that feigned surprise from his mother and another imaginary conversation. Joking about this girl getting caught up "gabbing". LM did NOT arrive home until 10pm, Jodi's curfew time.

Logic is applying the why around LM hanging up on that first call, what was happening around LM at that point in time? A noisy moped driving up and down that path, attempting that call whilst the bike was in the distance near the top end, but they drove back down again. LM could not afford the noise of that bike to be heard in that call. And we see LM waiting around 6mins until those boys are safely back home. Or/and it was just a little too early for putting a later meeting time in place. One thing is for sure, LM truly believed that call had not been enough for it to be logged. His claim of walking out to meet Jodi for six changed to calling her to let her know he was out earlier - Winging it constantly.

The only ones to hand an alibi on a plate to the police in the early hours of July the 1st. Pre concocted prior to being in the company of the police. A series of lies for the time only the killer knew lies were needed for. Before they had even begun to ascertain when Jodi Jones had left her home.

If Luke could not afford to speed things up why call Jodi’s house at all? Jodi had left home almost an hour before yet hadn’t got to her destination. That in itself would have alerted most parents to there being something wrong. Luke couldn’t have known that Judith wouldn’t have taken action as soon as hearing that her daughter wasn’t with him. Wouldn’t you? Further if the arrangement had been ‘to muck about up her’ it would have been even more worrying that Jodi hadn’t reached her destination, it being so near.

Of course we must never forget that Luke wouldn’t have known if Judith had been looking over Jodi’s shoulder when she texted Luke with the arrangements to meet him or if Jodi had deleted the texts that could have blown his carefully laid plans clean out of the water. Now that was risky.

As to the bike theory, it simply makes no sense. How would Jodi’s parents know where Luke was by the sound of a motorbike? Don’t they have motorbikes in Newbattle?

As to walking out to meet Jodi for six and calling her to let her know he was out….why is that suspicious? He was out earlier than expected so why wouldn’t he call her and let her know? Of course if the initial reported time of 17.30 for Jodi leaving the house is true then everything falls into place.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2022, 09:44:AM by Faithlilly »

Offline Faithlilly

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Re: False Alibi.
« Reply #33 on: July 04, 2022, 12:01:AM »
Another anomaly in a case full of anomalies. Of course it was strange that Jodi’s mum didn’t react in panic when Luke called her house at 17.40, a whole fifty minutes after Jodi had left the house and, as far as her mother knew, was meeting Luke in Easthouses.

What’s more puzzling is that in that 17.40 phone call Allan Ovens told Luke that Jodi had just left or had just left to meet him. Ovens had come in after Jodi had come home from school and had heard the door slamming as she left at, we are told, 16.50, yet a full 50 minutes later he was on the phone telling Luke that Jodi had ‘just left’. How do we square that circle?

Of course if Jodi had left at 17.30 as was first publicised then it makes perfect sense but that wasn’t the story told in court.

Offline Parky41

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Re: False Alibi.
« Reply #34 on: July 04, 2022, 08:40:PM »
Not interested in some continous tit for tat Faith. I am interested in highlighting the actual truth around reason as to why LM became prime suspect, remained as such and subsequently convicted. Deflecting on to others does neither excuse nor explain their actions.


There was no 10 mins there was 35-40 mins that evaporated into air. Leaving around 13mins with not the slightest hint that anything was rushed. Their memory was crystal clear in the copious amounts of description around LM. And without a doubt it was put together the evening beforehand. Cover more later perhaps. But of the following and time and worry:

We have of course covered part of this, that chalk and cheese situation, and we can do so again. CM had told the police that she was trying to get a hold of her son that evening, worried something may have happened to him. He had been walking up an isolated path as darkness fell, on his own but with the benefit of having the family business guard dog and his phone with him. Such was her claimed worry for his safety, that she did not attempt to phone Judith's, the place he was heading to, just him, with no reply to a phone he had in his possession when leaving home.

We go back to just before 7pm and he has called his mother. They claim it was him asking if Jodi had been to the house yet? His mother aware of more that Jodi's here. That this girl had not by that point arrived at the other side of that isolated path. Some 90 mins after her son had left home to go meet with her. CM made no claim of being busy, pre-occupied with anything that made her lose track of time. They further claim that Luke arrived home around 9pm and again asked if Jodi had been to the house. Telling him (claimed) not to worry, she would simply have got caught up "gabbing" somewhere. So we are now well over three hours later. He had not of course arrived home at this time, another conversation fabricated. He arrived home around 10pm, he had not been surpisingly early home from his curfew time, but he had left the boys and should have been home, if going straight there.

So back to the favourite bleat of Judith not worrying about her daughter, and you answer yourself once more. It is early evening, there is absolutely no knowledge of a girl walking any isolated path, this "up here" could have been several places, LM could simply be late, wrong place, anything. But they had been pre-occupied, telling the court that they had lost track of time, that it certainly had not seemed around 3/4 of an hour since Jodi had left. No further call, and believing that the meeting without a doubt had taken place. Spending the evening together, and when late home, the first person to be contacted was LM, showing that her mother fully believed that is who her daughter had spent her evening with. So it is more than plausible, they certainly had given an account of being pre-occupied/busy. But it was in mind in the aftermath, for she did ask LM why he had not called her back, to let her know that Jodi failed to turn up at all, his reply "I thought you had grounded her"

As with LM in his innocence (cough) Is on that road by his account, in what would have transpired to be around 90mins. Idling and twiddling his thumbs, going nowhere near that path. Of a young girl, his girlfriend, not appearing on the other side. Not worried, not concerned, shrugs one shoulders and phones his friends instead. They are late and he phones them back instantly, chasing them up. That is the difference.

I may start another thread around that whopper of a lie, that other favourite piece of blatant disinformation. "they all agreed the dog found Jodi then changed their minds" Where you scream "No one gives a dam what Luke said ------------" Desperately trying to erase his evidence. But they do give a dam, those accounts that screamed at the police - special knowledge from LM.

Offline Faithlilly

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Re: False Alibi.
« Reply #35 on: July 05, 2022, 12:04:AM »
Not interested in some continous tit for tat Faith. I am interested in highlighting the actual truth around reason as to why LM became prime suspect, remained as such and subsequently convicted. Deflecting on to others does neither excuse nor explain their actions.


There was no 10 mins there was 35-40 mins that evaporated into air. Leaving around 13mins with not the slightest hint that anything was rushed. Their memory was crystal clear in the copious amounts of description around LM. And without a doubt it was put together the evening beforehand. Cover more later perhaps. But of the following and time and worry:

We have of course covered part of this, that chalk and cheese situation, and we can do so again. CM had told the police that she was trying to get a hold of her son that evening, worried something may have happened to him. He had been walking up an isolated path as darkness fell, on his own but with the benefit of having the family business guard dog and his phone with him. Such was her claimed worry for his safety, that she did not attempt to phone Judith's, the place he was heading to, just him, with no reply to a phone he had in his possession when leaving home.

We go back to just before 7pm and he has called his mother. They claim it was him asking if Jodi had been to the house yet? His mother aware of more that Jodi's here. That this girl had not by that point arrived at the other side of that isolated path. Some 90 mins after her son had left home to go meet with her. CM made no claim of being busy, pre-occupied with anything that made her lose track of time. They further claim that Luke arrived home around 9pm and again asked if Jodi had been to the house. Telling him (claimed) not to worry, she would simply have got caught up "gabbing" somewhere. So we are now well over three hours later. He had not of course arrived home at this time, another conversation fabricated. He arrived home around 10pm, he had not been surpisingly early home from his curfew time, but he had left the boys and should have been home, if going straight there.

So back to the favourite bleat of Judith not worrying about her daughter, and you answer yourself once more. It is early evening, there is absolutely no knowledge of a girl walking any isolated path, this "up here" could have been several places, LM could simply be late, wrong place, anything. But they had been pre-occupied, telling the court that they had lost track of time, that it certainly had not seemed around 3/4 of an hour since Jodi had left. No further call, and believing that the meeting without a doubt had taken place. Spending the evening together, and when late home, the first person to be contacted was LM, showing that her mother fully believed that is who her daughter had spent her evening with. So it is more than plausible, they certainly had given an account of being pre-occupied/busy. But it was in mind in the aftermath, for she did ask LM why he had not called her back, to let her know that Jodi failed to turn up at all, his reply "I thought you had grounded her"

As with LM in his innocence (cough) Is on that road by his account, in what would have transpired to be around 90mins. Idling and twiddling his thumbs, going nowhere near that path. Of a young girl, his girlfriend, not appearing on the other side. Not worried, not concerned, shrugs one shoulders and phones his friends instead. They are late and he phones them back instantly, chasing them up. That is the difference.

I may start another thread around that whopper of a lie, that other favourite piece of blatant disinformation. "they all agreed the dog found Jodi then changed their minds" Where you scream "No one gives a dam what Luke said ------------" Desperately trying to erase his evidence. But they do give a dam, those accounts that screamed at the police - special knowledge from LM.

Not tit for tat, just trying to take the heat and the hate out of the discussion. Of course it’s easy to manipulate facts to support a particular narrative but those same facts, when looked at through a more neutral, less jaded eye can also tell a wholly different story.


There is no logical reason why the police, just over an hour after the finding of the body would have Luke in their sights…nothing, nothing, nothing but incompetence and bias. And so it continued, this incompetence from the police officers trampling all over the murder site, mercilessly destroying that precious evidence beneath their clumsy feet, to the forensic scientist, never enquiring whether there was another way in, disinterest that can never be good in an individual in their role, to poor Jodi’s body, rolled in plastic and discarded in that cold drizzling rain as if she was the alabaster mannequin that Luke had first thought her to be. If only their focus had been on preserving the crime scene rather than targeting a poor bereaved child then things could all have been so different…Jodi may even have received justice, of a sort.

The evening before? Rather opaque…care to explain?

Corrine didn’t call Judith’s phone? Had they met? Did Corrine even know Judith’s number? My mother certainly didn’t have any of my boyfriend’s mother’s numbers. As to Luke not replying to his phone there could have been multiple reasons. Back then the coverage that each phone company commanded was patchy, perhaps that was the cause? Or his ringer was off or a dozen different but plausible reasons for that riddle. On a connected point the fact that Luke phoned the speaking clock was used to suggest that he was out of his house at that time but phones in 2003 had a digital clock display so why wouldn’t he just have looked at that? Much less incriminating. So another riddle goes unexplained.

Why would Corrine be worried about Jodi? The girl had already stood her son up once so perhaps she thought that this had happened again? Jodi was not Corrine’s daughter, she was Judith’s and according to the official narrative her mother wasn’t much worried that she hadn’t met Luke almost an hour after she had left her house.

« Last Edit: July 05, 2022, 12:48:PM by Faithlilly »

Offline Davie2

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Re: False Alibi.
« Reply #36 on: July 05, 2022, 04:37:PM »
There is no logical reason why the police, just over an hour after the finding of the body would have Luke in their sights…nothing, nothing, nothing but incompetence and bias. And so it continued, this incompetence from the police officers trampling all over the murder site, mercilessly destroying that precious evidence beneath their clumsy feet, to the forensic scientist, never enquiring whether there was another way in, disinterest that can never be good in an individual in their role, to poor Jodi’s body, rolled in plastic and discarded in that cold drizzling rain as if she was the alabaster mannequin that Luke had first thought her to be. If only their focus had been on preserving the crime scene rather than targeting a poor bereaved child then things could all have been so different…Jodi may even have received justice, of a sort.

This has been done to death, you people have an awful habit of repeating this same stuff over & over again (tit for tat) it is pointless, it has got you no-where in the past & it will get you no-where in the future. You can add your sensationalized words, it matters not one iota.


Let's see these (whatever) statements of the Mitchell's, that they have in their possession, according to SF they don't care about consequences these days. How is his book coming along? LOL.

Offline Faithlilly

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Re: False Alibi.
« Reply #37 on: July 06, 2022, 12:09:AM »
This has been done to death, you people have an awful habit of repeating this same stuff over & over again (tit for tat) it is pointless, it has got you no-where in the past & it will get you no-where in the future. You can add your sensationalized words, it matters not one iota.


Let's see these (whatever) statements of the Mitchell's, that they have in their possession, according to SF they don't care about consequences these days. How is his book coming along? LOL.

Every miscarriage of justice began with a campaign. The law has always had to be dragged kicking and screaming to do the right thing. Luke’s case is no different.

BTW if the discussion is so pointless then why respond? Surely there’s better ways that you could be spending your time?

Offline Davie2

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Re: False Alibi.
« Reply #38 on: July 06, 2022, 12:40:AM »
to do the right thing

The law did do the right thing. A murderer off our streets, a stone-cold psychopathic killer off our streets.

Offline Faithlilly

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Re: False Alibi.
« Reply #39 on: July 06, 2022, 09:37:AM »
The law did do the right thing. A murderer off our streets, a stone-cold psychopathic killer off our streets.

Behave !

I sometimes wonder if Dobbie ever thinks about the damage he’s wrought on both Luke and Jodi’s families. Neither have received justice.

Offline Davie2

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Re: False Alibi.
« Reply #40 on: July 06, 2022, 04:10:PM »


I sometimes wonder if Lean ever thinks about the damage she’s wrought on both Luke and Jodi’s families. Poor Shane & Philip, the other, gets accused of murder, from trolls.

Offline Faithlilly

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Re: False Alibi.
« Reply #41 on: July 06, 2022, 08:11:PM »
I sometimes wonder if Lean ever thinks about the damage she’s wrought on both Luke and Jodi’s families. Poor Shane & Philip, the other, gets accused of murder, from trolls.

I wonder if Janine and Steven Kelly ever berate themselves for changing their statements and by doing so destroying a young boy’s life?

Offline Davie2

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Re: False Alibi.
« Reply #42 on: July 06, 2022, 10:38:PM »
I wonder if Janine and Steven Kelly ever berate themselves for changing their statements and by doing so destroying a young boy’s life?


That's like wondering if Corrine regrets getting disowned by her eldest son, for trying to fit him up.

Offline Faithlilly

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Re: False Alibi.
« Reply #43 on: July 07, 2022, 12:04:AM »

That's like wondering if Corrine regrets getting disowned by her eldest son, for trying to fit him up.

Except that didn’t happen.

Offline Playfair1

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Re: False Alibi.
« Reply #44 on: July 07, 2022, 12:47:PM »

That's like wondering if Corrine regrets getting disowned by her eldest son, for trying to fit him up.

What nonsense , you have no idea of Shane's relationship with his mother or brother , just making it up as you go.  Shane chooses not to partake in public , his choice it has no relevance .  Shane never stated Luke was out , I know you wish he had stated that but his evidence was HE DID NOT KNOW.

Just like the moped boys did not know why they were at the murder spot at the time of the murder, or why they took 5 days to come forward ( why did their own family , Jodi family not let the cops know it was them surely they could have put 2 and 2 together.  Or why they change their appearance in the days after the murder or why they cancelled on Jodi mentally unstable brother the very night of Jodi murder , or why they got rid of evidence ie the moped the day after the murder. None of these questions seem more relevant to you whilst your thinking about that maybe you could tell me what Jodi brother alibi for the day of the murder was , I can help he attended his follow up mental health appointment on the day of the murder but wait that's not right on the very day of Jodi murder his mother cancelled this follow up appointment so he could partake in more drug taking , coincidence   

Their is a need for this investigation and these people known to Jodi who lived with Jodi and who had serious problems to be properly looked at and properly eliminated