Author Topic: False Alibi.  (Read 19032 times)

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Offline Parky41

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False Alibi.
« on: June 21, 2022, 08:42:PM »
Even with the limited amount available to source on this case, the blatant manipulation and lies from Mitchell's enablers - Nothing puts LM anywhere other than RDW taken the life of his girlfriend.

SM arrived home, he "popped" his head into the lounge, there was no TV on, no music playing (LM claimed to be blasting those tunes out) and not a snifter of any cooking - The time was approx: 4:45pm and that house was empty.

SM left home again just after 5:30pm, he drove to the junction, looked left and right and there was NO LM, no brother hanging around that entrance.

CM claimed that she had left work, drove down Suttislea Road, onto Mansfield Road, into The Beeches and onto Newbattle Road. Arriving home by 5:05pm.

LM told the same tale, that his mother had arrived home at her usual time, by 5:05pm. Dinner was not ready, further prep and cooking to be completed. They claimed to sit down to eat no earlier than ten minutes after her arrival home.

SM was coached by his mother, the memory she had sharp in her mind was that she came home, in that house by 5:05pm, so much so she told her son Shane that his memory was, he came downstairs and spoke with her at 5:05pm. That he saw LM doing all sorts in the kitchen. Told Shane that he returned to his room, waited on her and Luke finishing dinner off, that she shouted him around 10mins later when it was plated up.

That they all ate in different places, Shane upstairs, Luke in front of the TV and CM soaking up the weather in the back garden, claiming she had been cooped up all day (bollocks).

That Shane left home just after 5:30pm as above, that he did not see Luke as he was still home (after being coached). LM said he went out back around 5:40pm, spoke with his mother, joked conveniently around the clothes he was wearing. Left home after this to walk out to meet with Jodi coming down for 6pm.

Winging it as best they could is what the Mitchells were doing, attempting to place LM home, and seeing him home away from being in Easthouses and that gate by F&W, away from RDW.

CCTV footage was checked for ANYONE in the vicinity. CM had not drove down Mansfield Road, she drove along the Byran's Road, into Abbeygrange, and Main Street in Newtongrange for supplies. Then home, pulling into Newbattle Abbey Crescent no earlier than 5:15pm. Still to park up in the drive, dog and shopping, into that house, the kitchen, it was no earlier than 5:17pm.

The phone logs were obtained and two calls had been logged, the first one that LM hung up on instantly. LM had to have been out that door by 5:30pm. - It was a pile of s***e. Made up, LM was NOT home.

Did anyone mention they were all going at neck break speed? Running about daft, desperately getting that dinner together, wolfing it down, running out back to speak with mother, sprinting down to the estate entrance - No they didn't. It was all very relaxed, neatly laid out. It was BOLLOCKS.

Three people not one, saw the same youth in the exact same heavier outerwear. Khaki green army style coat. The exact same hairstyle, perfectly described as being similar to the actor who played 'Shaggy' in the 2002 adaption of Scooby Doo, and the same as the Gallagher brother from the band Oasis. It was LM, and all three identified the youth as being him. Further bollocks of attempting to say this was two separate people, utter nonsense. It was the same person, there was not twins walking about anywhere in those quiet areas together.

LM and his incessant lies, continuously acting out of self interest. Had met with his girlfriend just after she left home that day. Went into that strip of woodland that they frequented together. Further bollocks of LM having no drugs in his system, LM was NOT drugs tested, he had been smoking the whole evening, almost to the point of climbing over that wall.

All this LM had no time! Dam right he didn't, he had absolutely no time to be faffing about. He had certain things that he had NO choice but to do. The first being contacting that girls house to make it appear as if no meeting had taken place. Next he needed cleaned and out of those clothes as a matter of urgency. He was the only person this girl was to be with. Seen again by F&W. LM needed back on that road, to be seen to be waiting, in different clothing. And again, he had NO time to be hanging around for any lengthy period of time. He needed to arrange disposal of evidence and he needed that alibi story in place. He is seen and he is off. Not seen again until touching 7:30pm.

They chose to have that fire, it takes time to burn stuff down. LM could NOT afford to speed anything up, he could NOT risk phoning that girls house back, speeding up any alert. SL and again, complete and utter bollocks, the police were never going to suddenly arrive at his door. He knew that should discovery have happened, it would be a time consuming task of identity. Without a doubt there was a risk that this girls parents may have contacted him, for any reason. Keeping himself away from home, and in the company of others for further alibi. Away from the fire.

More cock and bull, that he arrived home early, that feigned surprise from his mother and another imaginary conversation. Joking about this girl getting caught up "gabbing". LM did NOT arrive home until 10pm, Jodi's curfew time.

Logic is applying the why around LM hanging up on that first call, what was happening around LM at that point in time? A noisy moped driving up and down that path, attempting that call whilst the bike was in the distance near the top end, but they drove back down again. LM could not afford the noise of that bike to be heard in that call. And we see LM waiting around 6mins until those boys are safely back home. Or/and it was just a little too early for putting a later meeting time in place. One thing is for sure, LM truly believed that call had not been enough for it to be logged. His claim of walking out to meet Jodi for six changed to calling her to let her know he was out earlier - Winging it constantly.

The only ones to hand an alibi on a plate to the police in the early hours of July the 1st. Pre concocted prior to being in the company of the police. A series of lies for the time only the killer knew lies were needed for. Before they had even begun to ascertain when Jodi Jones had left her home.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: False Alibi.
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2022, 09:18:PM »
Wasn't there also something about burning the pies in the oven?

Offline nugnug

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Re: False Alibi.
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2022, 11:25:PM »
well it would  depend on what time jodi left home her family gave 3 diffrent times and  have never explianed  why.

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Re: False Alibi.
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2022, 04:11:PM »
Even with the limited amount available to source on this case, the blatant manipulation and lies from Mitchell's enablers - Nothing puts LM anywhere other than RDW taken the life of his girlfriend.

SM arrived home, he "popped" his head into the lounge, there was no TV on, no music playing (LM claimed to be blasting those tunes out) and not a snifter of any cooking - The time was approx: 4:45pm and that house was empty.

SM left home again just after 5:30pm, he drove to the junction, looked left and right and there was NO LM, no brother hanging around that entrance.

CM claimed that she had left work, drove down Suttislea Road, onto Mansfield Road, into The Beeches and onto Newbattle Road. Arriving home by 5:05pm.

LM told the same tale, that his mother had arrived home at her usual time, by 5:05pm. Dinner was not ready, further prep and cooking to be completed. They claimed to sit down to eat no earlier than ten minutes after her arrival home.

SM was coached by his mother, the memory she had sharp in her mind was that she came home, in that house by 5:05pm, so much so she told her son Shane that his memory was, he came downstairs and spoke with her at 5:05pm. That he saw LM doing all sorts in the kitchen. Told Shane that he returned to his room, waited on her and Luke finishing dinner off, that she shouted him around 10mins later when it was plated up.

That they all ate in different places, Shane upstairs, Luke in front of the TV and CM soaking up the weather in the back garden, claiming she had been cooped up all day (bollocks).

That Shane left home just after 5:30pm as above, that he did not see Luke as he was still home (after being coached). LM said he went out back around 5:40pm, spoke with his mother, joked conveniently around the clothes he was wearing. Left home after this to walk out to meet with Jodi coming down for 6pm.

Winging it as best they could is what the Mitchells were doing, attempting to place LM home, and seeing him home away from being in Easthouses and that gate by F&W, away from RDW.

CCTV footage was checked for ANYONE in the vicinity. CM had not drove down Mansfield Road, she drove along the Byran's Road, into Abbeygrange, and Main Street in Newtongrange for supplies. Then home, pulling into Newbattle Abbey Crescent no earlier than 5:15pm. Still to park up in the drive, dog and shopping, into that house, the kitchen, it was no earlier than 5:17pm.

The phone logs were obtained and two calls had been logged, the first one that LM hung up on instantly. LM had to have been out that door by 5:30pm. - It was a pile of s***e. Made up, LM was NOT home.

Did anyone mention they were all going at neck break speed? Running about daft, desperately getting that dinner together, wolfing it down, running out back to speak with mother, sprinting down to the estate entrance - No they didn't. It was all very relaxed, neatly laid out. It was BOLLOCKS.

Three people not one, saw the same youth in the exact same heavier outerwear. Khaki green army style coat. The exact same hairstyle, perfectly described as being similar to the actor who played 'Shaggy' in the 2002 adaption of Scooby Doo, and the same as the Gallagher brother from the band Oasis. It was LM, and all three identified the youth as being him. Further bollocks of attempting to say this was two separate people, utter nonsense. It was the same person, there was not twins walking about anywhere in those quiet areas together.

LM and his incessant lies, continuously acting out of self interest. Had met with his girlfriend just after she left home that day. Went into that strip of woodland that they frequented together. Further bollocks of LM having no drugs in his system, LM was NOT drugs tested, he had been smoking the whole evening, almost to the point of climbing over that wall.

All this LM had no time! Dam right he didn't, he had absolutely no time to be faffing about. He had certain things that he had NO choice but to do. The first being contacting that girls house to make it appear as if no meeting had taken place. Next he needed cleaned and out of those clothes as a matter of urgency. He was the only person this girl was to be with. Seen again by F&W. LM needed back on that road, to be seen to be waiting, in different clothing. And again, he had NO time to be hanging around for any lengthy period of time. He needed to arrange disposal of evidence and he needed that alibi story in place. He is seen and he is off. Not seen again until touching 7:30pm.

They chose to have that fire, it takes time to burn stuff down. LM could NOT afford to speed anything up, he could NOT risk phoning that girls house back, speeding up any alert. SL and again, complete and utter bollocks, the police were never going to suddenly arrive at his door. He knew that should discovery have happened, it would be a time consuming task of identity. Without a doubt there was a risk that this girls parents may have contacted him, for any reason. Keeping himself away from home, and in the company of others for further alibi. Away from the fire.

More cock and bull, that he arrived home early, that feigned surprise from his mother and another imaginary conversation. Joking about this girl getting caught up "gabbing". LM did NOT arrive home until 10pm, Jodi's curfew time.

Logic is applying the why around LM hanging up on that first call, what was happening around LM at that point in time? A noisy moped driving up and down that path, attempting that call whilst the bike was in the distance near the top end, but they drove back down again. LM could not afford the noise of that bike to be heard in that call. And we see LM waiting around 6mins until those boys are safely back home. Or/and it was just a little too early for putting a later meeting time in place. One thing is for sure, LM truly believed that call had not been enough for it to be logged. His claim of walking out to meet Jodi for six changed to calling her to let her know he was out earlier - Winging it constantly.

The only ones to hand an alibi on a plate to the police in the early hours of July the 1st. Pre concocted prior to being in the company of the police. A series of lies for the time only the killer knew lies were needed for. Before they had even begun to ascertain when Jodi Jones had left her home.

why wereall the charge agianst corine and  shane dropped could itbe somthing to do with police knowing the albi was true.

Offline Fairplay1

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Re: False Alibi.
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2022, 12:20:PM »
Even with the limited amount available to source on this case, the blatant manipulation and lies from Mitchell's enablers - Nothing puts LM anywhere other than RDW taken the life of his girlfriend.

SM arrived home, he "popped" his head into the lounge, there was no TV on, no music playing (LM claimed to be blasting those tunes out) and not a snifter of any cooking - The time was approx: 4:45pm and that house was empty.

SM left home again just after 5:30pm, he drove to the junction, looked left and right and there was NO LM, no brother hanging around that entrance.

CM claimed that she had left work, drove down Suttislea Road, onto Mansfield Road, into The Beeches and onto Newbattle Road. Arriving home by 5:05pm.

LM told the same tale, that his mother had arrived home at her usual time, by 5:05pm. Dinner was not ready, further prep and cooking to be completed. They claimed to sit down to eat no earlier than ten minutes after her arrival home.

SM was coached by his mother, the memory she had sharp in her mind was that she came home, in that house by 5:05pm, so much so she told her son Shane that his memory was, he came downstairs and spoke with her at 5:05pm. That he saw LM doing all sorts in the kitchen. Told Shane that he returned to his room, waited on her and Luke finishing dinner off, that she shouted him around 10mins later when it was plated up.

That they all ate in different places, Shane upstairs, Luke in front of the TV and CM soaking up the weather in the back garden, claiming she had been cooped up all day (bollocks).

That Shane left home just after 5:30pm as above, that he did not see Luke as he was still home (after being coached). LM said he went out back around 5:40pm, spoke with his mother, joked conveniently around the clothes he was wearing. Left home after this to walk out to meet with Jodi coming down for 6pm.

Winging it as best they could is what the Mitchells were doing, attempting to place LM home, and seeing him home away from being in Easthouses and that gate by F&W, away from RDW.

CCTV footage was checked for ANYONE in the vicinity. CM had not drove down Mansfield Road, she drove along the Byran's Road, into Abbeygrange, and Main Street in Newtongrange for supplies. Then home, pulling into Newbattle Abbey Crescent no earlier than 5:15pm. Still to park up in the drive, dog and shopping, into that house, the kitchen, it was no earlier than 5:17pm.

The phone logs were obtained and two calls had been logged, the first one that LM hung up on instantly. LM had to have been out that door by 5:30pm. - It was a pile of s***e. Made up, LM was NOT home.

Did anyone mention they were all going at neck break speed? Running about daft, desperately getting that dinner together, wolfing it down, running out back to speak with mother, sprinting down to the estate entrance - No they didn't. It was all very relaxed, neatly laid out. It was BOLLOCKS.

Three people not one, saw the same youth in the exact same heavier outerwear. Khaki green army style coat. The exact same hairstyle, perfectly described as being similar to the actor who played 'Shaggy' in the 2002 adaption of Scooby Doo, and the same as the Gallagher brother from the band Oasis. It was LM, and all three identified the youth as being him. Further bollocks of attempting to say this was two separate people, utter nonsense. It was the same person, there was not twins walking about anywhere in those quiet areas together.

LM and his incessant lies, continuously acting out of self interest. Had met with his girlfriend just after she left home that day. Went into that strip of woodland that they frequented together. Further bollocks of LM having no drugs in his system, LM was NOT drugs tested, he had been smoking the whole evening, almost to the point of climbing over that wall.

All this LM had no time! Dam right he didn't, he had absolutely no time to be faffing about. He had certain things that he had NO choice but to do. The first being contacting that girls house to make it appear as if no meeting had taken place. Next he needed cleaned and out of those clothes as a matter of urgency. He was the only person this girl was to be with. Seen again by F&W. LM needed back on that road, to be seen to be waiting, in different clothing. And again, he had NO time to be hanging around for any lengthy period of time. He needed to arrange disposal of evidence and he needed that alibi story in place. He is seen and he is off. Not seen again until touching 7:30pm.

They chose to have that fire, it takes time to burn stuff down. LM could NOT afford to speed anything up, he could NOT risk phoning that girls house back, speeding up any alert. SL and again, complete and utter bollocks, the police were never going to suddenly arrive at his door. He knew that should discovery have happened, it would be a time consuming task of identity. Without a doubt there was a risk that this girls parents may have contacted him, for any reason. Keeping himself away from home, and in the company of others for further alibi. Away from the fire.

More cock and bull, that he arrived home early, that feigned surprise from his mother and another imaginary conversation. Joking about this girl getting caught up "gabbing". LM did NOT arrive home until 10pm, Jodi's curfew time.

Logic is applying the why around LM hanging up on that first call, what was happening around LM at that point in time? A noisy moped driving up and down that path, attempting that call whilst the bike was in the distance near the top end, but they drove back down again. LM could not afford the noise of that bike to be heard in that call. And we see LM waiting around 6mins until those boys are safely back home. Or/and it was just a little too early for putting a later meeting time in place. One thing is for sure, LM truly believed that call had not been enough for it to be logged. His claim of walking out to meet Jodi for six changed to calling her to let her know he was out earlier - Winging it constantly.

The only ones to hand an alibi on a plate to the police in the early hours of July the 1st. Pre concocted prior to being in the company of the police. A series of lies for the time only the killer knew lies were needed for. Before they had even begun to ascertain when Jodi Jones had left her home.




Firstly well done for typing a long comment that does not include Dr Sandra Lean bashing or defamation of character , well done

guest29835

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Re: False Alibi.
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2022, 11:28:AM »
Even with the limited amount available to source on this case, the blatant manipulation and lies from Mitchell's enablers - Nothing puts LM anywhere other than RDW taken the life of his girlfriend.

SM arrived home, he "popped" his head into the lounge, there was no TV on, no music playing (LM claimed to be blasting those tunes out) and not a snifter of any cooking - The time was approx: 4:45pm and that house was empty.

SM left home again just after 5:30pm, he drove to the junction, looked left and right and there was NO LM, no brother hanging around that entrance.

CM claimed that she had left work, drove down Suttislea Road, onto Mansfield Road, into The Beeches and onto Newbattle Road. Arriving home by 5:05pm.

LM told the same tale, that his mother had arrived home at her usual time, by 5:05pm. Dinner was not ready, further prep and cooking to be completed. They claimed to sit down to eat no earlier than ten minutes after her arrival home.

SM was coached by his mother, the memory she had sharp in her mind was that she came home, in that house by 5:05pm, so much so she told her son Shane that his memory was, he came downstairs and spoke with her at 5:05pm. That he saw LM doing all sorts in the kitchen. Told Shane that he returned to his room, waited on her and Luke finishing dinner off, that she shouted him around 10mins later when it was plated up.

That they all ate in different places, Shane upstairs, Luke in front of the TV and CM soaking up the weather in the back garden, claiming she had been cooped up all day (bollocks).

That Shane left home just after 5:30pm as above, that he did not see Luke as he was still home (after being coached). LM said he went out back around 5:40pm, spoke with his mother, joked conveniently around the clothes he was wearing. Left home after this to walk out to meet with Jodi coming down for 6pm.

Winging it as best they could is what the Mitchells were doing, attempting to place LM home, and seeing him home away from being in Easthouses and that gate by F&W, away from RDW.

CCTV footage was checked for ANYONE in the vicinity. CM had not drove down Mansfield Road, she drove along the Byran's Road, into Abbeygrange, and Main Street in Newtongrange for supplies. Then home, pulling into Newbattle Abbey Crescent no earlier than 5:15pm. Still to park up in the drive, dog and shopping, into that house, the kitchen, it was no earlier than 5:17pm.

The phone logs were obtained and two calls had been logged, the first one that LM hung up on instantly. LM had to have been out that door by 5:30pm. - It was a pile of s***e. Made up, LM was NOT home.

Did anyone mention they were all going at neck break speed? Running about daft, desperately getting that dinner together, wolfing it down, running out back to speak with mother, sprinting down to the estate entrance - No they didn't. It was all very relaxed, neatly laid out. It was BOLLOCKS.

Three people not one, saw the same youth in the exact same heavier outerwear. Khaki green army style coat. The exact same hairstyle, perfectly described as being similar to the actor who played 'Shaggy' in the 2002 adaption of Scooby Doo, and the same as the Gallagher brother from the band Oasis. It was LM, and all three identified the youth as being him. Further bollocks of attempting to say this was two separate people, utter nonsense. It was the same person, there was not twins walking about anywhere in those quiet areas together.

LM and his incessant lies, continuously acting out of self interest. Had met with his girlfriend just after she left home that day. Went into that strip of woodland that they frequented together. Further bollocks of LM having no drugs in his system, LM was NOT drugs tested, he had been smoking the whole evening, almost to the point of climbing over that wall.

All this LM had no time! Dam right he didn't, he had absolutely no time to be faffing about. He had certain things that he had NO choice but to do. The first being contacting that girls house to make it appear as if no meeting had taken place. Next he needed cleaned and out of those clothes as a matter of urgency. He was the only person this girl was to be with. Seen again by F&W. LM needed back on that road, to be seen to be waiting, in different clothing. And again, he had NO time to be hanging around for any lengthy period of time. He needed to arrange disposal of evidence and he needed that alibi story in place. He is seen and he is off. Not seen again until touching 7:30pm.

They chose to have that fire, it takes time to burn stuff down. LM could NOT afford to speed anything up, he could NOT risk phoning that girls house back, speeding up any alert. SL and again, complete and utter bollocks, the police were never going to suddenly arrive at his door. He knew that should discovery have happened, it would be a time consuming task of identity. Without a doubt there was a risk that this girls parents may have contacted him, for any reason. Keeping himself away from home, and in the company of others for further alibi. Away from the fire.

More cock and bull, that he arrived home early, that feigned surprise from his mother and another imaginary conversation. Joking about this girl getting caught up "gabbing". LM did NOT arrive home until 10pm, Jodi's curfew time.

Logic is applying the why around LM hanging up on that first call, what was happening around LM at that point in time? A noisy moped driving up and down that path, attempting that call whilst the bike was in the distance near the top end, but they drove back down again. LM could not afford the noise of that bike to be heard in that call. And we see LM waiting around 6mins until those boys are safely back home. Or/and it was just a little too early for putting a later meeting time in place. One thing is for sure, LM truly believed that call had not been enough for it to be logged. His claim of walking out to meet Jodi for six changed to calling her to let her know he was out earlier - Winging it constantly.

The only ones to hand an alibi on a plate to the police in the early hours of July the 1st. Pre concocted prior to being in the company of the police. A series of lies for the time only the killer knew lies were needed for. Before they had even begun to ascertain when Jodi Jones had left her home.

Let's assume Luke was the killer.  My first question is: When and where did he change out of bloodied clothes?  I ask because I have read through your post and you seem to be assuming that his clothes would have been incriminating just on sight - you must think they would have been bloodied - but you don't say precisely when and where he changed out of them.

Perhaps you could clarify?

Offline Parky41

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Re: False Alibi.
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2022, 11:49:PM »
Let's assume Luke was the killer.  My first question is: When and where did he change out of bloodied clothes?  I ask because I have read through your post and you seem to be assuming that his clothes would have been incriminating just on sight - you must think they would have been bloodied - but you don't say precisely when and where he changed out of them.

Perhaps you could clarify?

Not simply about being bloodied (without a doubt they were contaminated), he was seen in them also.

Ok lets leave it all aside and just go with time. Around 5:40pm he is seen by F&W and not seen again until touching 6pm (changed). SL likes to go with unconfirmed times and works from 13mins so let's do that.

At a brisk pace it takes around 6 mins from RDP to the Mitchell home. Let's go with 7. At haste, running for a good part of it, we can easily half that time, but keep it at that for the return back out to Newbattle Road. We are working with LM having to go home to change, not clean (at home). Let's give him a good four minutes to change clothing, more than enough time at haste. So we only have around 2mins left for LM to clean. How long does one assume this should take, again at haste? One could have a full shower in that time when in a hurry, LM did not need this.

Very little of LM was exposed to the elements, very little to clean anything off his actual person. Without a doubt LM took to the cover of the woodland leading into Newbattle Abbey Cres. He had to cross the river Esk, no choice and LM was not daft. He is in the cover of that woodland, still at risk of being seen. It is used by dog walkers, walkers and joggers. LM grew up there, he knew that woodland intimately, every nook and cranny, every short cut. He had the perfect source at hand to clean any blood from his person and the soles of those boots. So there would be no blood showing upon his exit, should he be seen and nothing being trailed upon his feet. And again he had no time to be faffing about, the quickest and most accessible means to clean any blood from his person was that river.

A neat 13mins from a boy who did not have time on his side. We have to add further sense here. LM of course did not have that return journey back to RDP but we keep that time the same, I do not believe that LM tore through the estate after exiting those woods, at haste yes, briskly, but not running. And not wearing that coat, logic would have him plank it or carry it. Not risk being seen in it again.

That is the bare minimum, that is given him four minutes to change clothing, allowing time to access them. But we simply do not know if LM had to go home, do we? Only LM will know that. We do not know if his mother took him back onto the main road. We simply do not know, but in reality he had another 4mins on top of that 13, which quite a lot can be achieved in, if one is at haste to carry tasks out.

He didn't give himself 13/15/17mins he simply did what he had to do as quickly as he could.

guest29835

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Re: False Alibi.
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2022, 04:27:PM »
Not simply about being bloodied (without a doubt they were contaminated), he was seen in them also.

Ok lets leave it all aside and just go with time. Around 5:40pm he is seen by F&W and not seen again until touching 6pm (changed). SL likes to go with unconfirmed times and works from 13mins so let's do that.

At a brisk pace it takes around 6 mins from RDP to the Mitchell home. Let's go with 7. At haste, running for a good part of it, we can easily half that time, but keep it at that for the return back out to Newbattle Road. We are working with LM having to go home to change, not clean (at home). Let's give him a good four minutes to change clothing, more than enough time at haste. So we only have around 2mins left for LM to clean. How long does one assume this should take, again at haste? One could have a full shower in that time when in a hurry, LM did not need this.

Very little of LM was exposed to the elements, very little to clean anything off his actual person. Without a doubt LM took to the cover of the woodland leading into Newbattle Abbey Cres. He had to cross the river Esk, no choice and LM was not daft. He is in the cover of that woodland, still at risk of being seen. It is used by dog walkers, walkers and joggers. LM grew up there, he knew that woodland intimately, every nook and cranny, every short cut. He had the perfect source at hand to clean any blood from his person and the soles of those boots. So there would be no blood showing upon his exit, should he be seen and nothing being trailed upon his feet. And again he had no time to be faffing about, the quickest and most accessible means to clean any blood from his person was that river.

A neat 13mins from a boy who did not have time on his side. We have to add further sense here. LM of course did not have that return journey back to RDP but we keep that time the same, I do not believe that LM tore through the estate after exiting those woods, at haste yes, briskly, but not running. And not wearing that coat, logic would have him plank it or carry it. Not risk being seen in it again.

That is the bare minimum, that is given him four minutes to change clothing, allowing time to access them. But we simply do not know if LM had to go home, do we? Only LM will know that. We do not know if his mother took him back onto the main road. We simply do not know, but in reality he had another 4mins on top of that 13, which quite a lot can be achieved in, if one is at haste to carry tasks out.

He didn't give himself 13/15/17mins he simply did what he had to do as quickly as he could.

What you are telling us is:

(i). Luke killed Jodi somewhere along the path and left her behind the wall, near the 'V' gap.
(ii). After the act, Luke used the South Esk to wash blood off his face, hands and shoes (if any). 
(iii). Luke then returned into Newbattle and went home on foot.
(iv). While returning home, Luke may still have had blood on his clothes, but nobody noticed.   
(v). On returning home, Luke changed out of his contaminated clothes.  He may or may not have showered at this point.
(vi). At no point did Luke enter Easthouses.

Have I got you right?  I just want to be clear on what you are saying.

If he was washing his face in a river, he wouldn't have been able to see himself.  I suppose he could have been carrying a pocket mirror, or even relied on his own reflection in the water.  A mirror seems unlikely unless this was planned in very fine detail.  There's a risk of making himself visibly dirty, which would raise suspicion if someone were to see him.  The close-up eye witness account of Luke waiting at the gate at (I think) the Newbattle end does not, to my mind, tally with the idea of him trekking through woodland then using a river to clean himself up.  It is a neat explanation, though.

Do you think it is possible he washed in the brook that runs along and near some of the path, rather than the South Esk?  I just wonder about two things: to what extent the South Esk is overlooked and also the need for him quickly to remove signs of blood rather than walk through the woodland first.  However, I note that the brook is southerly from the path, so maybe that is your explanation for using the South Esk, in that he wanted to stay behind the wall and under cover of woodland?

Overall, I am still not comfortable with this due to the pathologist's opinion about the quantity of blood that is likely to have been on her attacker.  I can't quite square this with the eye witness accounts and the need for Luke to return home unseen, on foot, without assistance from a confederate.  Your theory is good but depends on either Luke chancing it or receiving assistance from somebody (which then requires two individuals to chance it).

I will need to mull it over.  Perhaps, in the meantime, you could answer my questions above, please?

Offline Parky41

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Re: False Alibi.
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2022, 06:44:PM »
What you are telling us is:

(i). Luke killed Jodi somewhere along the path and left her behind the wall, near the 'V' gap.
(ii). After the act, Luke used the South Esk to wash blood off his face, hands and shoes (if any). 
(iii). Luke then returned into Newbattle and went home on foot.
(iv). While returning home, Luke may still have had blood on his clothes, but nobody noticed.   
(v). On returning home, Luke changed out of his contaminated clothes.  He may or may not have showered at this point.
(vi). At no point did Luke enter Easthouses.

Have I got you right?  I just want to be clear on what you are saying.

If he was washing his face in a river, he wouldn't have been able to see himself.  I suppose he could have been carrying a pocket mirror, or even relied on his own reflection in the water.  A mirror seems unlikely unless this was planned in very fine detail.  There's a risk of making himself visibly dirty, which would raise suspicion if someone were to see him.  The close-up eye witness account of Luke waiting at the gate at (I think) the Newbattle end does not, to my mind, tally with the idea of him trekking through woodland then using a river to clean himself up.  It is a neat explanation, though.

Do you think it is possible he washed in the brook that runs along and near some of the path, rather than the South Esk?  I just wonder about two things: to what extent the South Esk is overlooked and also the need for him quickly to remove signs of blood rather than walk through the woodland first.  However, I note that the brook is southerly from the path, so maybe that is your explanation for using the South Esk, in that he wanted to stay behind the wall and under cover of woodland?

Overall, I am still not comfortable with this due to the pathologist's opinion about the quantity of blood that is likely to have been on her attacker.  I can't quite square this with the eye witness accounts and the need for Luke to return home unseen, on foot, without assistance from a confederate.  Your theory is good but depends on either Luke chancing it or receiving assistance from somebody (which then requires two individuals to chance it).

I will need to mull it over.  Perhaps, in the meantime, you could answer my questions above, please?

Ok, firstly the attack did not happen on the path, it happened and was contained to a small area within that woodland strip. Namely NW and W of the V break, within there. The burn you mention (Ochre) runs through that area. Why would LM go up to the V break to enter RDP? and risk having nowhere to keep himself out of sight, should anyone have come along there is nowhere to go. Absolutely no evidence of any killer escaping via that path, east, south or north. Every piece of forensic evidence contained NW and W.

Off the lane in Easthouse's the wall is completely broken away, an area that this couple used to enter that strip of woodland. An area that LM had walked down with others, through the strip of woodland to that V break, over and on to that path. LM denied he had ever been in there before, he denied all knowledge of those breaks in the wall. Initials also found where he had carved their name into a tree. The winging it, and admitting to then only going so far down once confronted with those intitials. So yes, he had been in Easthouse's, walking down through that woodland strip with Jodi into an area off the beaten track -----------

The burn (Ochre,as above), running through the area where the attack happened. No idea to suitablilty of substance for washing, his hair had appeared wet/gelled in the F&W sighting. If someone had walked past LM, directly beside him, then perhaps they would have picked up far more detail, sometimes people simply expect too much, red against khaki? How much, how little? We simply do not know, only LM would have been aware of what was strikingly visible upon those clothes. He did not cross that road hoping to be seen, crossing it without a doubt whilst no cars were in sight, one appeared and he stops in his track. Before he had the chance to make it into further cover. It is a car driving past and it is not a stand alone sighting. Kicking himself? saying 'dam', I should have taken that coat off before crossing that road, who knows?

So your question around time and what had to have happened in that time frame. The clean of anything upon his actual person, the change of clothing. I allowed for LM to go home, we do not know to what level this murder may have been premeditated, only LM will know this. If at all he had to go home at this point. But he has ample means, unlike the RDW it is a denser area next to his housing scheme. An area he would know intimately, that is simply a given. Not just from walking his dog, but a young  lad growing up right next to it. He is not going to be keeping to the beaten track, he is attempting to not be seen. And knowledge to whether he had or not been seen. Again this winging it, to see what would transpire. Such as stating he had arrived home at 9pm that evening and stayed home, he was seen arriving home around 10pm. Winging it.

So the burn and the river with many places along it's length in those woods, that LM knew intimately. What kind of example can be given here? How's about he has already taken that coat off upon entering those woods, perhaps directly after being seen by F&W, we do not know. But he had the most natural source ever around him, to get blood off his person, hopefully before he is seen. My goodness, how long to dunk your head completely under water, really give it a good old rubbing/clean/rinse, repeating this process 4/5/6 times in succession? How dirty does one think he is going to be after this? With blood, with anything? This is not a burn, it is a clean flowing source of water. Seen? Risk of being seen? Choice, blood or washing, or washed?

So he gets the whack of this off him, he has no coat on, he makes his way as discretely as is feasible to his home. He is armed with knowledge, he has not passed anyone, no cars passed whilst going into his garden. A neighbour may have seen him, he doesn't know, he simply has to wing it as with the rest.

Choices? he has met with that girl, he has killed her, he can only do as much as is possible in a very short period of time. He has natural source and cover surrounding him. He is intelligent and without a doubt forensically aware. No calling mother to get into any car, he is going to be claiming to be home, why would he have phoned her? Contaminating a car, contaminating his home - When he does not have to.

So assuming he is the killer, and I certainly believe he is, without a doubt factually guilty and proved in law to be so. Has murdered and carried out those horrific post mortem injuries. This is not normal, this is not someone who is going to be panicking, upset, this is cold and to them clear thinking, doing what they had to do in an attempt to cover it up. It was never going to be easy, those wheels in motion unable to be derailed.

It does not sit rational in mind at all, does it? Not simply that this happened, we then have to enter into that alibi, the rational behind a person aiding another? So many things that are abhorant to mind. I have absolutely no idea what tale he told to his mother that day, there is no point in guessing.

You mention about risk, being seen, arriving to the house, bloodied? Small windows of time, fortunate? To the opposite end of the scale. Once that call was logged from 5:32pm, attempting to place LM where he claimed to be, works at around 75mins of not being seen. Not even by his own brother exiting that estate. To a couple of minutes max working his way from a density of that woodland into his house? He puts himself on that road for a very short period of time, and he is seen several times. That is reality here.

Did LM walk up RDP to get to Easthouses? Not seen, or walk up through RDW, we simply do not know. Then we move to LK who cycled up that path, not seen. Risk, choice, luck and on it goes. Ubelievable, impossible? - He was found guilty for a reason, many reasons around that circumstantial evidnence.

guest29835

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Re: False Alibi.
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2022, 02:40:PM »
I am grateful to you.  I need to absorb what you say - and think.  Let me come back to you.

Thanks also for the Scotticism - burn not brook!  I've always liked Scotland and the poetic language.

guest29835

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Re: False Alibi.
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2022, 06:09:PM »
Parky41,

Here are my thoughts.

First, you say that the attack did not take place on the path.  I'm not disputing this in itself, but isn't it true that Jodi was struck on the head?  If Jodi was behind the wall in an intimate situation with somebody she knew, would she need to be struck on the head by her attacker?  The injury implies to me that she was assaulted on the path by somebody not known to her, or if known to her, somebody she would not have trusted.  The attacker then dragged her body through the V, killed her out of sight and left the body.

Would you agree that if the killer was unknown to her, or someone she did not trust, the attack probably began on the path?

I note what you say about Luke changing his story about his own knowledge of the location, but personally I would not place much stall in that.  He is being questioned by hostile police officers, he is nervous, and in a situation where he knows he could be a suspect.  An innocent person could lie or dissemble in that situation.

One sighting I think is by a driver at the Easthouses end.  Clearly we must accept that if Luke was seen with Jodi, that is incriminating because it contradicts his basic account of what did and did not occur.  But I can't see how that witness can be considered reliable. Furthermore, you have to ask: would Luke have allowed himself to be seen with Jodi, if this was premeditated?  I think if the witness was correct in her sighting, then the murder was likely not premeditated.

I also find it strange that Luke would allow himself to be seen at the Newbattle end after supposedly committing a gruesome murder.  You say he was careful when returning to the house, yet he was openly stood by a gate, and no mention is given by witnesses of him having blood on him.  I accept that blood will not always be obvious, but he would not have had a change of clothes with him if he was seen with Jodi at Easthouses. 

The only possibility is that he was wearing underclothing and disposed of contaminated outer clothing, but then what was the parka for?  And if the enterprise was premeditated to that degree, why did he allow himself to be seen with Jodi in broad daylight at Easthouses?

The whole fuss about the alibi seems to me a bit out-of-proportion.  If his brother was engrossed with pornography, it is possible he simply didn't notice somebody entering the house, or if he was aware of it, he was unconcerned and by the time he was asked to account for things, he had forgotten.

In all, I see scope for doubt in this case, but I think a visit to the location and the surrounding area is necessary to fully understand what could have occurred.  It may be, as you say, that Luke could have moved through Newbattle without being noticed.  After all, nobody was purposefully looking for him at this point, and anybody who did see him could well forget or be unsure.  Innocent or guilty, clearly nobody stopped to speak to him, or we would know, and even if somebody had seen him, they would not necessarily see blood.  However, don't the two witnesses at the Newbattle end somewhat undermine the prosecution case?

Offline Faithlilly

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Re: False Alibi.
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2022, 11:53:PM »
Parky41,

Here are my thoughts.

First, you say that the attack did not take place on the path.  I'm not disputing this in itself, but isn't it true that Jodi was struck on the head?  If Jodi was behind the wall in an intimate situation with somebody she knew, would she need to be struck on the head by her attacker?  The injury implies to me that she was assaulted on the path by somebody not known to her, or if known to her, somebody she would not have trusted.  The attacker then dragged her body through the V, killed her out of sight and left the body.

Would you agree that if the killer was unknown to her, or someone she did not trust, the attack probably began on the path?

I note what you say about Luke changing his story about his own knowledge of the location, but personally I would not place much stall in that.  He is being questioned by hostile police officers, he is nervous, and in a situation where he knows he could be a suspect.  An innocent person could lie or dissemble in that situation.

One sighting I think is by a driver at the Easthouses end.  Clearly we must accept that if Luke was seen with Jodi, that is incriminating because it contradicts his basic account of what did and did not occur.  But I can't see how that witness can be considered reliable. Furthermore, you have to ask: would Luke have allowed himself to be seen with Jodi, if this was premeditated?  I think if the witness was correct in her sighting, then the murder was likely not premeditated.

I also find it strange that Luke would allow himself to be seen at the Newbattle end after supposedly committing a gruesome murder.  You say he was careful when returning to the house, yet he was openly stood by a gate, and no mention is given by witnesses of him having blood on him.  I accept that blood will not always be obvious, but he would not have had a change of clothes with him if he was seen with Jodi at Easthouses. 

The only possibility is that he was wearing underclothing and disposed of contaminated outer clothing, but then what was the parka for?  And if the enterprise was premeditated to that degree, why did he allow himself to be seen with Jodi in broad daylight at Easthouses?

The whole fuss about the alibi seems to me a bit out-of-proportion.  If his brother was engrossed with pornography, it is possible he simply didn't notice somebody entering the house, or if he was aware of it, he was unconcerned and by the time he was asked to account for things, he had forgotten.

In all, I see scope for doubt in this case, but I think a visit to the location and the surrounding area is necessary to fully understand what could have occurred.  It may be, as you say, that Luke could have moved through Newbattle without being noticed.  After all, nobody was purposefully looking for him at this point, and anybody who did see him could well forget or be unsure.  Innocent or guilty, clearly nobody stopped to speak to him, or we would know, and even if somebody had seen him, they would not necessarily see blood.  However, don't the two witnesses at the Newbattle end somewhat undermine the prosecution case?

If you I’d start your research with the area around Luke’s old home 203 Newbattle Abbey Cresent on Google maps.  You’ll notice that the Mitchell’s house is impossible to approach stealthily as it is surrounded by other houses. To get home Luke would, for almost all his journey from his exit from the heavy foliage of the woods to his house, be open to prying eyes from both neighbours in their multiple houses, people who would possibly know him,  to those coming home from work, shopping, alighting from buses etc etc etc at that busy time of day….yet not one person saw him. Is that feasible? Would he risk it?

Offline Playfair1

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Re: False Alibi.
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2022, 10:09:AM »
Parky - your interpretation and fictional litte yarn is just your own opinion non of it can be backed up with the evidence in your words it is just a pile of opinionated bollocks but I understand why you continue with this narrative it's difficult to back down now , the ego will not allow you to consider your wrong but in my opinion your not only wrong your bias has no limits , many many real check able experts state your wrong and sadly the experts wins hand down over a anonymous internet commenter every time.

So let's start with the 3 people who you say gave the same discriptions , so easy to dismantle but when I dismantle it will be backed up with evidence to support unlike your interpretation  which is twisted to suit your narrative.

Bryson statement originally never stated that the highly manipulative move of showing a picture which in the experts words from the BBC documentary was deemed inconsistent , time anomalies, discriptions of the two people esp Jodi, she was a hairdresser she knows the difference with dark and auburn hair , females pick up on these details , that is why in the official court documents the appeal judge stated this was not a reliable identification and further support by stating in the appeal that this can be challenged. Then their is the failure to identify the boy in court after knowing exactly who she was to pick out , his picture was all over the tabloid and her husband would have kept her right with who Luke was. Fact is she said no at trial , she realised how serious this is and could not follow through, her witness statements were saturated in flaws and inconsistencies and that is why the appeal doc states it can be challenged.

And then their is the description of the magical changing shape of the fishing coat, that he supposedly wore all the time that made him look like a monk ( the devil is always in the detail , thanks mr teacher for that , does that sound like hip length jacket Bryson described , Bryson catagorically refused the jacket discriptions outlined by the police. Too many factual, backed up with evidence inconsistencies , again this is the reason on appeal the judges accepted this can be challenged.

Then we have the sisters who were driving by and witnessed the boy who she described as having hair like oasis front man , now was that the same as Bryson who stated the 20 year old average built adult male had his hair up in a clump , I can factually tell you Liam from oasis never wore his hair like that, so your opinion that the 3 witnesses gave the same discriptions is wrong and based on nothing more than your own opinion.

Furthermore, the sisters who seen the youth casually standing at the gate just after he allegedly brutally murdered Jodi , according to you they confirmed the magic jacket as the same as Bryson not so the evidence they gave did not describe the same hip jacket , for one what happened to the bulging pocket and again no reference to the monk description , so many inconsistencies to name with these witnesses. Another thing about the sisters statement they said he had hair like oasis that covered his face but then at court she stated she would never forget those eyes , when challenged by Findlay she suddenly remembers that just as she was passing in the car with what must have been a fleeting glance he just flicked his hair this is how she got out of that lie , but let's go further she was able to see those eyes but no mention of the magic jacket dripping with blood , but she was close enough to see those eyes- catch a grip.

Donald Findlay wiped the floor with these two desperados , he annihilated them , bringing one to tears as he easily unraveled their testimony , their witness statement is nothing like Bryson and was proved unreliable when challenged about the paper with the picture not yet printed, this was a takedown of a couple of gossips desperate to be part of a huge trial , they were factually proved to be unreliable. And you use this as supporting your opinion , too many inconsistencies which is again backed up with that real stuff called evidence something you stay well clear of is evidence to back your opinion up.

So thankyou for that  journey into parkys world of fantasy and fictional fable , you are not an expert and have zero credibility , the only expertise you exhibit is in fictional short stories,opinions conjured up to support your own narrative for me I rely on facts and real evidence not a random who makes it up as he goes and ventures as far away as he can from truth and fact.  Maybe you should start listening to the many experts who's abilities and achievements can be easily checked and verified ,who stand openly, publicly in support of this case being unsafe , catagorically they deem this a complete miscarriage. With all due respect whilst your imagination has no bounds, I would much rather base my opinion on the facts,evidence and the countless experts for now.


Offline Faithlilly

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Re: False Alibi.
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2022, 11:31:AM »

He did not cross that road hoping to be seen, crossing it without a doubt whilst no cars were in sight, one appeared and he stops in his track. Before he had the chance to make it into further cover. It is a car driving past and it is not a stand alone sighting. Kicking himself? saying 'dam', I should have taken that coat off before crossing that road, who knows?

The devil really is in the detail.

If Luke had exited RDP in his murder mantle why, after crossing the road, did he not immediately access the security of the woodland? Why walk/run all the way up to the gate where he was allegedly seen by Walsh and Fleming? Why take the risk of being seen on that road when he could have accessed the woodland almost immediately either via the low stone wall or the insecure boundary which enclosed the woodland?

The photo below is of the road as you leave the Newbattle end of RDP and shows the distance Luke would have had to traverse to get to the gate where he was allegedly seen by Walsh and Fleming (the gate is several hundred yards beyond the brick wall on the left).
« Last Edit: June 28, 2022, 11:41:AM by Faithlilly »

guest29835

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Re: False Alibi.
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2022, 01:57:PM »
If you I’d start your research with the area around Luke’s old home 203 Newbattle Abbey Cresent on Google maps.  You’ll notice that the Mitchell’s house is impossible to approach stealthily as it is surrounded by other houses. To get home Luke would, for almost all his journey from his exit from the heavy foliage of the woods to his house, be open to prying eyes from both neighbours in their multiple houses, people who would possibly know him,  to those coming home from work, shopping, alighting from buses etc etc etc at that busy time of day….yet not one person saw him. Is that feasible? Would he risk it?

Yes, I do appreciate this.  Even without a site visit, it is clear from a Google street map view that his route would have been overlooked. 

But I also think Parky41 has a point. 

Luke had grown up in this area.  It was very much his domain.  He would have known all the shortcuts so as to minimise sightings, and even who could be expected to be around at what times, who the nosy neighbours were, and so forth.  People would not have been specifically looking for him at this point and would not have paid detailed attention to him.  The ability to clean himself up in the South Esk (or even the Mary Burn, had he taken a lengthy detour), provides a neat reconciliation of certain problems.  Nevertheless, he would not have been able to clean blood off his clothing at this point and I do think the two prosecution witnesses at the Newbattle gate ironically present a problem for the prosecution case.  Wouldn't they have noticed spots and marks on his clothing?

So the issue I am still left with is clothing and blood.  That is at the core of doubt in this case, in my view.  The defence pathologist is very clear about this - the quantity of blood would be impossible to hide on her attacker.  This means the attacker (whoever that may have been) must have chanced it and just wasn't seen on exiting the woodland, or was seen but nothing untoward was noticed about him, or he planned this and perhaps wore underclothing and disposed of the contaminated clothing for retrieval later, or he was naked during the attack.

The fact she was hit over the head also gives me unease, as it implies that the attack began on the path, which suggests the attacker was a stranger or somebody she did not trust.  However, this is not strictly a point of doubt because of course it is possible Luke followed an atypical modus operandi and hit her over the head either on the path or behind the wall.