Telecoms in 1985

[Rob_]

Oh dear! That was not at all what I meant, Rob. Why would I, when I was one of those who left school with nothing. I was in my 40's before I embarked on a degree. It's more than possible that JB, in his early 20s, hadn't reached his full potential. Even so, intellect, and what's called "common sense" don't necessarily go hand in hand.

I am glad you got a degree Jane, but some people seem to assume JB is not bright because he did not do well at school, I was just trying to say this may not be the case.

[killingeve]

I am glad you got a degree Jane, but some people seem to assume JB is not bright because he did not do well at school, I was just trying to say this may not be the case.

What is you're definition of not doing well at school? 

[guest29835]

If the answer phone was off QC the phone would ring but no call would be registered? I did read somewhere that the police removed a answerphone but don't quote me.

I've just realised that the answerphone theory doesn't stand up.  Before I explain why, I will address your comment.  You're overlooking that if Jeremy is guilty, he has obtained a second answerphone and rigged that up and switched it on prior to leaving for White House Farm.  On the other hand, if Jeremy is innocent, the answer function on the phone has simply been switched off, meaning that the phone would ring on in the normal manner without the interruption of an automated message.

Now I will explain why the answerphone theory doesn't hold together.  The reason is that in order for it to work, Jeremy would need to obtain a second phone that would be used that night then hid from the police, but as I have already explained, Jeremy could not have planned to stage a call as he had no way of knowing that Nevill would be in the kitchen and there was no phone in the bedroom, so he had no means to explain how Nevill could reach a phone. 

A pro-guilt person could reply to this by saying that Jeremy could have planned to stage a pre-incident call from Nevill as part of an alibi, but if you think about this within the parameters of a prosecution scenario, that can't work and this would be intuitive and obvious to Jeremy, if he were guilty.  The bottom line is, he has to kill Nevill in bed or wherever Nevill is sleeping.  Anything else represents the plan going awry.

I am swinging back and forth on this case, but I am very doubtful that Jeremy could have carried out this plan.  If he did, then I'm still struggling to see how he did it.

[lookout]

Oh dear! That was not at all what I meant, Rob. Why would I, when I was one of those who left school with nothing. I was in my 40's before I embarked on a degree. It's more than possible that JB, in his early 20s, hadn't reached his full potential. Even so, intellect, and what's called "common sense" don't necessarily go hand in hand.

I agree Jane, you can have all the degrees going but if you lack common sense, you're completely screwed.

[guest29835]

What is you're definition of not doing well at school?

Jeremy attended a prestigious public school, had O-levels and attempted a maths A-level.  He's not a genius, but I would say he is of above-average intelligence.  As I have commented before, if he were going through the system today, he'd probably end up at a university somewhere or maybe take a degree at Cirencester.

[Jane]

I am glad you got a degree Jane, but some people seem to assume JB is not bright because he did not do well at school, I was just trying to say this may not be the case.

We are told that JB wasn't happy at school. The reasons for such can be varied. The first that comes to mind is that he may have been aware he was being pushed in a direction he wasn't suited to. He may have felt he didn't fit. It may have been entirely the wrong place for his capabilities. Other than shooting, he seems to have taken an interest in drama, if not treading the boards, back-stage work.

[Jane]

Jeremy attended a prestigious public school, had O-levels and attempted a maths A-level.  He's not a genius, but I would say he is of above-average intelligence.  As I have commented before, if he were going through the system today, he'd probably end up at a university somewhere or maybe take a degree at Cirencester.

As the potential 'Master' of a large farming business, I'd have expected him to go to ag. college. Because he didn't go to Cirencester, like his father and uncle, I've assumed he didn't pass -or take- the entrance exam, but there was always Writtle, as near as NEETC. Maybe he simply didn't want to go down the farming road.

[killingeve]

Jeremy attended a prestigious public school, had O-levels and attempted a maths A-level.  He's not a genius, but I would say he is of above-average intelligence.  As I have commented before, if he were going through the system today, he'd probably end up at a university somewhere or maybe take a degree at Cirencester.

But there's a world of difference between having good grade O levels and poor grade O levels.  The UK government currently strives for every pupil to achieve 5 GCSE's at grades A - C.  What grades did Bamber achieve?  I believe he attempted 2 or 3 A levels at a local college and dropped out after the first year? 

What's your definition of a genius and above-average intelligence?  How have you arrived at placing Bamber in the above-average cateorgory?

[Rob_]

Jeremy attended a prestigious public school, had O-levels and attempted a maths A-level.  He's not a genius, but I would say he is of above-average intelligence.  As I have commented before, if he were going through the system today, he'd probably end up at a university somewhere or maybe take a degree at Cirencester.

In my day only one person in ten did a degree QC, and for our grand parents it was much harder still as they had to matriculate which was really tough.

You don't have to be a genius to get a degree, almost anyone can I would say.

[guest29835]

In my day only one person in ten did a degree QC, and for our grand parents it was much harder still as they had to matriculate which was really tough.

You don't have to be a genius to get a degree, almost anyone can I would say.

I know.  I wasn't suggesting that you have to be intelligent at all to achieve a degree.  That wasn't really my point.

[Munksa]

We are talking about five murders including two children, not nicking a bit of petrol from the local garage, I don't understand these sorts of comments?

You don't have to understand...it matters not.

If someone wants something desperately and they have the motive ( early inheritance)  means ( weapon and story) opportunity (Chance) then they will take the risk. All crimes involve risk big or small. I am not just talking about Jeremy Bamber.

One might say but Bamber was going to get his share anyways. But when? If JB did not like farming and he was forced to because he had no choice I can actually understand his frustration! Work related suicide is highest among men. It really can be a living hell and affect you greatly mentally and the  stress. Bamber had no qualification to hold a professional job and choose his own career path, he was a son of a rich farmer but not a rich man himself! He earned a living working as farmer, no doubt hard manual work and bit on the side pouring drinks at the bar.

His parents were only 61, even if they lived up to his grandma Mabel's age that's quite a waiting. June's sis Pamela only died last year at the 100!

If his motive was money  ( early inheritance) then  there is nothing to be surprised about. Havnt you heard the saying Money is the root of all evil? Or rather love of money.

[Jane]

But there's a world of difference between having good grade O levels and poor grade O levels.  The UK government currently strives for every pupil to achieve 5 GCSE's at grades A - C.  What grades did Bamber achieve?  I believed he attempted 2 or 3 A levels at a local college and dropped out after the first year? 

What's your definition of a genius and above-average intelligence?  How have you arrived at placing Bamber in the above-average cateorgory?

My understanding is that he simply wasn't interested in academic learning. Seems he'd rather have been out there exploring the big, wide world. That being so, I can perfectly well see why he wouldn't have wanted to be trapped in a tractor ploughing fields in Essex.

[guest29835]

As the potential 'Master' of a large farming business, I'd have expected him to go to ag. college. Because he didn't go to Cirencester, like his father and uncle, I've assumed he didn't pass -or take- the entrance exam, but there was always Writtle, as near as NEETC. Maybe he simply didn't want to go down the farming road.

He passed the selection exam for the upper school at Gresham's, where he showed some ability in maths and geography.  Later, he was admitted into the Sixth Form at Gresham's to take A-levels.  He performed indifferently and switched to a local FE college, where he continued with a maths A-level. 

I think we're over-labouring a simple point.  I don't say he was a potential candidate for MENSA, I merely make the observation that he was and is manifestly of above-average intelligence.  He's not a stupid person, let us put it that way.  I believe he was intellectually capable of executing a murder plan of this kind.  Whether he actually did so is another matter.

[Jane]

You don't have to understand...it matters not.

If someone wants something desperately and they have the motive ( early inheritance)  means ( weapon and story) opportunity (Chance) then they will take the risk. All crimes involve risk big or small. I am not just talking about Jeremy Bamber.

One might say but Bamber was going to get his share anyways. But when? If JB did not like farming and he was forced to because he had no choice I can actually understand his frustration! Work related suicide is highest among men. It really can be a living hell and affect you greatly mentally and the  stress. Bamber had no qualification to hold a professional job and choose his own career path, he was a son of a rich farmer but not a rich man himself! He earned a living working as farmer, no doubt hard manual work and bit on the side pouring drinks at the bar.

His parents were only 61, even if they lived up to his grandma Mabel's age that's quite a waiting. June's sis Pamela only died only last year at the 100!

If his motive was money  ( early inheritance) then  there is nothing to be surprised about. Havnt you heard the saying Money is the root of all evil? Or rather love of money.

That can't really be added to, Munksa.  It says it all.

[lookout]

Where, or how did this myth begin that JB wasn't interested in farming ?