Why Nevill didn't call the Police

[smiffy]

Keira

In response to your request about telephone calls.

On 1st June I can remember the sequence and content of a couple of telephone calls I had with an individual having realised that was the day I had spoken with them i.e. 1st June.

Further, my good lady tragically lost her middle daughter about 18 months ago. I can still remember the sequence of telephone calls relating to the events unfolding, our journeys made and the telephone calls made after she passed.
I certainly remembered them all very clearly the following day.

Most certainly one will remember a sequence of events when trauma is involved.  The very idea that Jeremy could not remember who he telephoned first is just ridiculous. I suspect he was caught out in a momentary loss of control but that is all it takes to unearth the truth.

Anyone looking at this series of events would realise that Jeremy could not have telephoned Julie Mugford before telephoning the police but that seems to be what took place.  As you state curiousessex, he could only have done so if he was not asleep and if he had a special knowledge of events.

How could he possibly telephone Julie and tell her there was trouble at the farm shortly after 3am if the alleged telephone call from Nevill only took place after 3.20am?

spreading misinformation as usual eh JERRY....

[mike tesko]

It was the police who moved the time of the call from Jeremy to JM, not Jeremy - this becomes clear in his interviews when the police are trying to trick Jeremy into saying something different to what he has already said? Jeremy's response, was to say that the true account was what he said when he was first spoken to by the police about it - by the time of his interviews he was on medication and would have been feeling drowsy etc...

[part due]

It is claimed that there were two calls to the Police. The first from Nevill at 3.26 and the second, by JB at 3.36.

The call from JB to the Police lasted 10-11 minutes according to JB. Even if this call was shorter, the timings do not work.

The drive from JB's cottage to WHF has been timed by Mike at 7 minutes.(Car was already moving too, no starting up, pulling out the drive.)

By JB's own website and all statements, he arrived at WHF at 3.48.

He wasn't dressed when he took the call.

Call at 3.36, +7 minutes to drive, 3.43..... allows 5 minutes for Call to Police, Call to Julie, Dress.....

Impossible I'm afraid.

If the call to Police only took 1 Minute then it might be possible, but we know that it was longer.

Maybe this claim will now be dropped from the official website?

The call to JM by JB was supposed to be before JB Called the police...so sorry "vidvic"....your version and flawed reasoning can be thrown into the rubbish bin straight away.

Wrong, because in the recent interview with Bamber he says he called the Police after his father called? so not in the Bin after all..

[part due]

Do you still believe this? That the call to JM by JB was supposed to be before JB called the Police?

It's a difficult one to pin down.

The simple fact is that no matter which way you swing it, JB was on the phone to the police between 3:26 and 3:37 (give or take a minute either way).

So the call from JB to JM must have been either before 3:26 or after 3:37.

Based on the arrival of JB at the scene of the murders at around 3:48, it would seem unlikely that he would have had the time to call JM after his call to the police and then and drive slowly to the whf.

It would therefore seem most likely that JB's call took place before he called the police at 3:26.

Don't you think that the Police would have said something to Bamber about the call from the father if true while outside the Farm or up until the inquest where it was still thought it was suede? Cause they would if true.

[Roch]

Do you still believe this? That the call to JM by JB was supposed to be before JB called the Police?

It's a difficult one to pin down.

The simple fact is that no matter which way you swing it, JB was on the phone to the police between 3:26 and 3:37 (give or take a minute either way).

So the call from JB to JM must have been either before 3:26 or after 3:37.

Based on the arrival of JB at the scene of the murders at around 3:48, it would seem unlikely that he would have had the time to call JM after his call to the police and then and drive slowly to the whf.

It would therefore seem most likely that JB's call took place before he called the police at 3:26.

Don't you think that the Police would have said something to Bamber about the call from the father if true while outside the Farm or up until the inquest where it was still thought it was suede? Cause they would if true.

Very interesting point

[shonapugs]

Do you mean interesting in a good way, or a completely incomprehensible way?

[Roch]

Do you mean interesting in a good way, or a completely incomprehensible way?

Hi pugsy... I mean it makes sense what he's posted.  You'd think the cops would have discussed it with Jeremy outside the farmhouse.

[smiffy]

It is claimed that there were two calls to the Police. The first from Nevill at 3.26 and the second, by JB at 3.36.

The call from JB to the Police lasted 10-11 minutes according to JB. Even if this call was shorter, the timings do not work.

The drive from JB's cottage to WHF has been timed by Mike at 7 minutes.(Car was already moving too, no starting up, pulling out the drive.)

By JB's own website and all statements, he arrived at WHF at 3.48.

He wasn't dressed when he took the call.

Call at 3.36, +7 minutes to drive, 3.43..... allows 5 minutes for Call to Police, Call to Julie, Dress.....

Impossible I'm afraid.

If the call to Police only took 1 Minute then it might be possible, but we know that it was longer.

Maybe this claim will now be dropped from the official website?

The call to JM by JB was supposed to be before JB Called the police...so sorry "vidvic"....your version and flawed reasoning can be thrown into the rubbish bin straight away.

Wrong, because in the recent interview with Bamber he says he called the Police after his father called? so not in the Bin after all..

the sequence is simple....so you obviously misunderstood me "part due"

neville phones JB.
JB phones JM.
JB phones police.

certainly ..early on there seems to be no doubt the police accepted JB's reporting of a phone call from his father...it may even be the case that they too had received a call from Neville...which would support JB's report of trouble so make it even less likely to question its credibility and reliablity.

[vidvic]

It is claimed that there were two calls to the Police. The first from Nevill at 3.26 and the second, by JB at 3.36.

The call from JB to the Police lasted 10-11 minutes according to JB. Even if this call was shorter, the timings do not work.

The drive from JB's cottage to WHF has been timed by Mike at 7 minutes.(Car was already moving too, no starting up, pulling out the drive.)

By JB's own website and all statements, he arrived at WHF at 3.48.

He wasn't dressed when he took the call.

Call at 3.36, +7 minutes to drive, 3.43..... allows 5 minutes for Call to Police, Call to Julie, Dress.....

Impossible I'm afraid.

If the call to Police only took 1 Minute then it might be possible, but we know that it was longer.

Maybe this claim will now be dropped from the official website?

The call to JM by JB was supposed to be before JB Called the police...so sorry "vidvic"....your version and flawed reasoning can be thrown into the rubbish bin straight away.

Wrong, because in the recent interview with Bamber he says he called the Police after his father called? so not in the Bin after all..

the sequence is simple....so you obviously misunderstood me "part due"

neville phones JB.
JB phones JM.
JB phones police.

certainly ..early on there seems to be no doubt the police accepted JB's reporting of a phone call from his father...it may even be the case that they too had received a call from Neville...which would support JB's report of trouble so make it even less likely to question its credibility and reliablity.

JB himself, does not agree with your sequence of events.

[vidvic]

It was the police who moved the time of the call from Jeremy to JM, not Jeremy - this becomes clear in his interviews when the police are trying to trick Jeremy into saying something different to what he has already said? Jeremy's response, was to say that the true account was what he said when he was first spoken to by the police about it - by the time of his interviews he was on medication and would have been feeling drowsy etc...

That is not true Mike. JB changed the sequence and the police said, are you sure? Because previously it was the other way around.

[vidvic]

If there was itemised billing then one side or the other would have waved it from the rooftops at trial. I believe the exchange in deepest Essex was ancient and not able to record anymore than units used.

That is most certainly a distinct and probable possibility. So why would Mike be telling porkies?

It has been suggested that trunk calls (i.e. long distance rather than local) may have been recorded as well as international calls. I suspect operator connected calls would also have been itemised.  I do not know whether the technology was available at the time for locally dialled calls to be specifically identified and timed.  Whatever the position Mike's views expressed here do not amount to "porkies", they are his understanding of the position.

Ah Chelmsford telephone exchange.....
vidvic uses flowery language (hmm wonder why) to promote his belief in the relevant telephone exchange being very old and out of date for the time of the murder...  nothing more than wishful thinking...how old eh vidvic in your imagination?
a little research   and it cannot have been too old...for the old telephone exchange building in chelmsford went out of use in 1974....
so that immediately implies  that in 1985 the replacement exchanges equipment cannot have been much older than from 1974.  System X digital exchanges were being introduced in the early 80's and chelmsford is very likely to have gone to system x prior to 1985 due to its importance to BT.

Itemised billing....there are two components that are relevant... key is recording equipment to obtain the data...the paperwork side only comes later...   One came before the other...so was in place before the other.
Where the right equipment was installed the ability to log calls was already present even if no itemised bills were being sent out to customers.

err.....what about the one in Maldon?? It's a Maldon number.....

[smiffy]

It is claimed that there were two calls to the Police. The first from Nevill at 3.26 and the second, by JB at 3.36.

The call from JB to the Police lasted 10-11 minutes according to JB. Even if this call was shorter, the timings do not work.

The drive from JB's cottage to WHF has been timed by Mike at 7 minutes.(Car was already moving too, no starting up, pulling out the drive.)

By JB's own website and all statements, he arrived at WHF at 3.48.

He wasn't dressed when he took the call.

Call at 3.36, +7 minutes to drive, 3.43..... allows 5 minutes for Call to Police, Call to Julie, Dress.....

Impossible I'm afraid.

If the call to Police only took 1 Minute then it might be possible, but we know that it was longer.

Maybe this claim will now be dropped from the official website?

The call to JM by JB was supposed to be before JB Called the police...so sorry "vidvic"....your version and flawed reasoning can be thrown into the rubbish bin straight away.

Wrong, because in the recent interview with Bamber he says he called the Police after his father called? so not in the Bin after all..

the sequence is simple....so you obviously misunderstood me "part due"

neville phones JB.
JB phones JM.
JB phones police.

certainly ..early on there seems to be no doubt the police accepted JB's reporting of a phone call from his father...it may even be the case that they too had received a call from Neville...which would support JB's report of trouble so make it even less likely to question its credibility and reliablity.

JB himself, does not agree with your sequence of events.

are you referring to a very early claim by JB to the police in which JB was under stress and possibly confused or did not want to admit he was scared by the call and did not want to come across to the police as a coward so may have possibly said he phoned JM after calling the police.

hmm  a killer planning a cover up /alibi type thing based on phone calls ...they would KNOW what order to make the calls and what times they were  and have the sequence well remembered in anticipation of possible police questioning.... 
JB's being unsure in a stressful situation seems to indicate his focus was not on the time he did things.

Neville's call to JB would have posed a dilemma for JB as to what to do in response to his fathers call.
does he go himself to whf as it seems his father didnt want the police involved......risky...or does he call the police contrary to what his fathers message would imply his father wanted ......
In my view he phoned JM to seek opinion on the issue but JM's lack of concern (cold and uncaring) meant he got no help from her as he never got to raise this difficult question with her.

[curiousessex]

It is claimed that there were two calls to the Police. The first from Nevill at 3.26 and the second, by JB at 3.36.

The call from JB to the Police lasted 10-11 minutes according to JB. Even if this call was shorter, the timings do not work.

The drive from JB's cottage to WHF has been timed by Mike at 7 minutes.(Car was already moving too, no starting up, pulling out the drive.)

By JB's own website and all statements, he arrived at WHF at 3.48.

He wasn't dressed when he took the call.

Call at 3.36, +7 minutes to drive, 3.43..... allows 5 minutes for Call to Police, Call to Julie, Dress.....

Impossible I'm afraid.

If the call to Police only took 1 Minute then it might be possible, but we know that it was longer.

Maybe this claim will now be dropped from the official website?

The call to JM by JB was supposed to be before JB Called the police...so sorry "vidvic"....your version and flawed reasoning can be thrown into the rubbish bin straight away.

Wrong, because in the recent interview with Bamber he says he called the Police after his father called? so not in the Bin after all..

the sequence is simple....so you obviously misunderstood me "part due"

neville phones JB.
JB phones JM.
JB phones police.

certainly ..early on there seems to be no doubt the police accepted JB's reporting of a phone call from his father...it may even be the case that they too had received a call from Neville...which would support JB's report of trouble so make it even less likely to question its credibility and reliablity.

JB himself, does not agree with your sequence of events.

are you referring to a very early claim by JB to the police in which JB was under stress and possibly confused or did not want to admit he was scared by the call and did not want to come across to the police as a coward so may have possibly said he phoned JM after calling the police.

hmm  a killer planning a cover up /alibi type thing based on phone calls ...they would KNOW what order to make the calls and what times they were  and have the sequence well remembered in anticipation of possible police questioning.... 
JB's being unsure in a stressful situation seems to indicate his focus was not on the time he did things.

Neville's call to JB would have posed a dilemma for JB as to what to do in response to his fathers call.
does he go himself to whf as it seems his father didnt want the police involved......risky...or does he call the police contrary to what his fathers message would imply his father wanted ......
In my view he phoned JM to seek opinion on the issue but JM's lack of concern (cold and uncaring) meant he got no help from her as he never got to raise this difficult question with her.

Smiffy

In your opinion........... IF Jeremy did not receive a telephone call from Nevill do you think Jeremy would be guilty as charged?

[vidvic]

"does he go himself to whf as it seems his father didnt want the police involved"

but I thought you said Nevill called the Police too?

When Jeremy was questioned about the order of the calls to the Police & Mugford, he initially said he called JM BEFORE the Police, then later he said he called her AFTER the Police. When Police picked up the change they pointed it out and he kept referring back to his first statement where he said BEFORE the Police. At trial and in later statements he changed it back to AFTER and last year, in the Mirror interview he said AFTER.

If it was AFTER the Police this was around 3.30 and if Nevill called the Police it was after 3.36. Three witnesses say the call to JM was around 3.00am.

[Jerry]

Such a simple thing to remember and he got it wrong.  Doesn't that tell a story all of its own?

And then he tried to cover his mistake by telling the police to refer to his initial statement. Well practised liars usually slip up on the simplest of questions.