Author Topic: Why Nevill didn't call the Police  (Read 41099 times)

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Offline vidvic

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Why Nevill didn't call the Police
« on: June 28, 2011, 01:54:AM »
It is claimed that there were two calls to the Police. The first from Nevill at 3.26 and the second, by JB at 3.36.

The call from JB to the Police lasted 10-11 minutes according to JB. Even if this call was shorter, the timings do not work.

The drive from JB's cottage to WHF has been timed by Mike at 7 minutes.(Car was already moving too, no starting up, pulling out the drive.)

By JB's own website and all statements, he arrived at WHF at 3.48.

He wasn't dressed when he took the call.

Call at 3.36, +7 minutes to drive, 3.43..... allows 5 minutes for Call to Police, Call to Julie, Dress.....

Impossible I'm afraid.

If the call to Police only took 1 Minute then it might be possible, but we know that it was longer.

Maybe this claim will now be dropped from the official website?

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Offline vidvic

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Re: Why Nevill didn't call the Police
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2011, 02:15:AM »
I would also add, that this claim has comeabout because of the now notorious 'logs'.

This subject was covered in the original trial and it was agreed by both sides that these logs related to one call from JB to Police at 3.26.

It is surely dangerous to devise entire theories around these logs which were being compiled third hand back at Chelmsford.

Did the Police not admit that on first glimpse through the kitchen window, with his pushed forward grey hair, that they originally thought Nevill to be a woman? Are we honestly expected to believe that SC was originally lying on the Kitchen floor and unseen by anyone, got up, went upstairs to shoot herself for the second time? Or was shot by the Police? And all this from logs, which as I've demonstrated above, are giving you very misleading info.
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Offline mike tesko

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Re: Why Nevill didn't call the Police
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2011, 04:15:AM »
It is claimed that there were two calls to the Police. The first from Nevill at 3.26 and the second, by JB at 3.36.

The call from JB to the Police lasted 10-11 minutes according to JB. Even if this call was shorter, the timings do not work.

The drive from JB's cottage to WHF has been timed by Mike at 7 minutes.(Car was already moving too, no starting up, pulling out the drive.)

By JB's own website and all statements, he arrived at WHF at 3.48.

He wasn't dressed when he took the call.

Call at 3.36, +7 minutes to drive, 3.43..... allows 5 minutes for Call to Police, Call to Julie, Dress.....

Impossible I'm afraid.

If the call to Police only took 1 Minute then it might be possible, but we know that it was longer.

Maybe this claim will now be dropped from the official website?
... I would invite everyone to consider the following - (1) Jeremy makes his call to the police at around 3.36am, (2) call lasts around 10/11 minutes, terminating at around 3.45/3.46am, (3) Jeremy's timed arrival at the scene is/was 3.52am, but it remains possible that it could have been as late as 3.53am because of overlap. Based on these timings, it would have been possible for Jeremy to have made the 7 minute journey from his cottage at 9 Head street, Goldhanger to WHF...
« Last Edit: June 28, 2011, 04:31:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline smiffy

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Re: Why Nevill didn't call the Police
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2011, 07:44:AM »
It is claimed that there were two calls to the Police. The first from Nevill at 3.26 and the second, by JB at 3.36.

The call from JB to the Police lasted 10-11 minutes according to JB. Even if this call was shorter, the timings do not work.

The drive from JB's cottage to WHF has been timed by Mike at 7 minutes.(Car was already moving too, no starting up, pulling out the drive.)

By JB's own website and all statements, he arrived at WHF at 3.48.

He wasn't dressed when he took the call.

Call at 3.36, +7 minutes to drive, 3.43..... allows 5 minutes for Call to Police, Call to Julie, Dress.....

Impossible I'm afraid.

If the call to Police only took 1 Minute then it might be possible, but we know that it was longer.

Maybe this claim will now be dropped from the official website?


The call to JM by JB was supposed to be before JB Called the police...so sorry "vidvic"....your version and flawed reasoning can be thrown into the rubbish bin straight away.

Offline Roch

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Re: Why Nevill didn't call the Police
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2011, 08:41:AM »
The original version of Police Sergeant Woodcocks, witness statement, contained no fewer than 13 pages at its inception, which became transformed into 10 pages, by the time significant information, and evidence, which related to the first moments that armed police, entered the kitchen at whf, and discovered two bodies there - the body of one dead male, and the body of one dead female...
(Mike Tesko).

I think what we are being asked to believe is that the body of a male was mistaken as the body of a female, from looking through the window (hair flopped etc). 

That this female body was jotted down in rough somewhere along the chain of communication...and then added on to the body of the male 'found on entry' in error.  (Nobody using radio communications has asked any clarification / confirmation questions, which seems odd given the brevity of the situation). 

And not only that... but also in this chain of communication somebody, somewhere has took it upon themselves to describe one of these bodies as a suicide when contacting SOCO Neil Davidson.

Furthermore, there exisits a non-disclosed report about a shooting incident in the kitchen.

Then, photographs of photographs of Sheila Caffell have been examined by professors... and they have given a time of death not superior to two hours prior to photography.




Offline Roch

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Re: Why Nevill didn't call the Police
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2011, 08:49:AM »
As for the phonecalls I am really unsure.  But if the message passed over from Jeremy is referring to Jeremy's alleged phonecall from Nevill to himself...  It cannot have been recorded as verbatim by police.  Because Nevill would not describe Sheila as his 'daughter' to Jeremy.... 

He would however, describe Sheila as his 'daughter' if he was communicating with a stranger.


Offline vidvic

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Re: Why Nevill didn't call the Police
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2011, 09:16:AM »
It is claimed that there were two calls to the Police. The first from Nevill at 3.26 and the second, by JB at 3.36.

The call from JB to the Police lasted 10-11 minutes according to JB. Even if this call was shorter, the timings do not work.

The drive from JB's cottage to WHF has been timed by Mike at 7 minutes.(Car was already moving too, no starting up, pulling out the drive.)

By JB's own website and all statements, he arrived at WHF at 3.48.

He wasn't dressed when he took the call.

Call at 3.36, +7 minutes to drive, 3.43..... allows 5 minutes for Call to Police, Call to Julie, Dress.....

Impossible I'm afraid.

If the call to Police only took 1 Minute then it might be possible, but we know that it was longer.

Maybe this claim will now be dropped from the official website?


The call to JM by JB was supposed to be before JB Called the police...so sorry "vidvic"....your version and flawed reasoning can be thrown into the rubbish bin straight away.

Really smiffy? You might want to tell the defence team at trial and at appeal, as they have worked very hard to show the phone call was AFTER he called the police.
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Offline vidvic

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Re: Why Nevill didn't call the Police
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2011, 09:23:AM »
It is claimed that there were two calls to the Police. The first from Nevill at 3.26 and the second, by JB at 3.36.

The call from JB to the Police lasted 10-11 minutes according to JB. Even if this call was shorter, the timings do not work.

The drive from JB's cottage to WHF has been timed by Mike at 7 minutes.(Car was already moving too, no starting up, pulling out the drive.)

By JB's own website and all statements, he arrived at WHF at 3.48.

He wasn't dressed when he took the call.

Call at 3.36, +7 minutes to drive, 3.43..... allows 5 minutes for Call to Police, Call to Julie, Dress.....

Impossible I'm afraid.

If the call to Police only took 1 Minute then it might be possible, but we know that it was longer.

Maybe this claim will now be dropped from the official website?
... I would invite everyone to consider the following - (1) Jeremy makes his call to the police at around 3.36am, (2) call lasts around 10/11 minutes, terminating at around 3.45/3.46am, (3) Jeremy's timed arrival at the scene is/was 3.52am, but it remains possible that it could have been as late as 3.53am because of overlap. Based on these timings, it would have been possible for Jeremy to have made the 7 minute journey from his cottage at 9 Head street, Goldhanger to WHF...

Hi Mike,

10/11 minutes from 3.36 IS NOT 3.45/3.46, it is 3.46/3.47. 7 Minutes to drive equals 3.54 and that's without getting dressed. JB's own website makes great play of him being with Police from 3.48. It's simply NOT possible!
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Offline Roch

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Re: Why Nevill didn't call the Police
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2011, 09:38:AM »
It is claimed that there were two calls to the Police. The first from Nevill at 3.26 and the second, by JB at 3.36.

The call from JB to the Police lasted 10-11 minutes according to JB. Even if this call was shorter, the timings do not work.

The drive from JB's cottage to WHF has been timed by Mike at 7 minutes.(Car was already moving too, no starting up, pulling out the drive.)

By JB's own website and all statements, he arrived at WHF at 3.48.

He wasn't dressed when he took the call.

Call at 3.36, +7 minutes to drive, 3.43..... allows 5 minutes for Call to Police, Call to Julie, Dress.....

Impossible I'm afraid.

If the call to Police only took 1 Minute then it might be possible, but we know that it was longer.

Maybe this claim will now be dropped from the official website?
... I would invite everyone to consider the following - (1) Jeremy makes his call to the police at around 3.36am, (2) call lasts around 10/11 minutes, terminating at around 3.45/3.46am, (3) Jeremy's timed arrival at the scene is/was 3.52am, but it remains possible that it could have been as late as 3.53am because of overlap. Based on these timings, it would have been possible for Jeremy to have made the 7 minute journey from his cottage at 9 Head street, Goldhanger to WHF...

Hi Mike,

10/11 minutes from 3.36 IS NOT 3.45/3.46, it is 3.46/3.47. 7 Minutes to drive equals 3.54 and that's without getting dressed. JB's own website makes great play of him being with Police from 3.48. It's simply NOT possible!

Vidvic... Are the points you are trying to state: 

Only one call from Jeremy at 3.26 which is recorded on Bonnet's other log at 3.36?  And that this 3.26 call from Jeremy would fit in with him being with police at 3.48?  No call from Nevill.   Then the defence are only left with an allegation that Nevill called Jeremy.  A claim which is all the weaker for him not having phoned the police?
« Last Edit: June 28, 2011, 09:42:AM by Rochford »

Offline vidvic

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Re: Why Nevill didn't call the Police
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2011, 09:50:AM »
It is claimed that there were two calls to the Police. The first from Nevill at 3.26 and the second, by JB at 3.36.

The call from JB to the Police lasted 10-11 minutes according to JB. Even if this call was shorter, the timings do not work.

The drive from JB's cottage to WHF has been timed by Mike at 7 minutes.(Car was already moving too, no starting up, pulling out the drive.)

By JB's own website and all statements, he arrived at WHF at 3.48.

He wasn't dressed when he took the call.

Call at 3.36, +7 minutes to drive, 3.43..... allows 5 minutes for Call to Police, Call to Julie, Dress.....

Impossible I'm afraid.

If the call to Police only took 1 Minute then it might be possible, but we know that it was longer.

Maybe this claim will now be dropped from the official website?
... I would invite everyone to consider the following - (1) Jeremy makes his call to the police at around 3.36am, (2) call lasts around 10/11 minutes, terminating at around 3.45/3.46am, (3) Jeremy's timed arrival at the scene is/was 3.52am, but it remains possible that it could have been as late as 3.53am because of overlap. Based on these timings, it would have been possible for Jeremy to have made the 7 minute journey from his cottage at 9 Head street, Goldhanger to WHF...

Hi Mike,

10/11 minutes from 3.36 IS NOT 3.45/3.46, it is 3.46/3.47. 7 Minutes to drive equals 3.54 and that's without getting dressed. JB's own website makes great play of him being with Police from 3.48. It's simply NOT possible!

Vidvic... Are the points you are trying to state: 

Only one call from Jeremy at 3.26 which is recorded on Bonnet's other log at 3.36?  And that this 3.26 call from Jeremy would fit in with him being with police at 3.48?  No call from Nevill.   Then the defence are only left with an allegation that Nevill called Jeremy.  A claim which is all the weaker for him not having phoned the police?

Hi Rochford,

Yes, only a call from Jeremy to the Police at 3.26 gave him time to get to the farm.

My secondary point is that this theory of a Nevill to Police call, only came from reading logs, claimed as 'new evidence' which not only were entered into evidence at the original trail but were discussed as well. They have now resurfaced after 26 years and given a new twist, which on further inspection don't stack up.

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Hartley

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Re: Why Nevill didn't call the Police
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2011, 10:29:AM »
... I would invite everyone to consider the following - (1) Jeremy makes his call to the police at around 3.36am, (2) call lasts around 10/11 minutes, terminating at around 3.45/3.46am, (3) Jeremy's timed arrival at the scene is/was 3.52am, but it remains possible that it could have been as late as 3.53am because of overlap. Based on these timings, it would have been possible for Jeremy to have made the 7 minute journey from his cottage at 9 Head street, Goldhanger to WHF...

Not at the speed he was witnessed to be travelling at by the occupants of police unit CA07.

In addition you are not taking into account the time required to find his keys, put two jumpers on and walk to the car, let's be generous and say that he was in a speedy mood and that only took three minutes, you are now trying to suggest that he then got to whf in four minutes whilst also being able to be overtaken by the police?

One must also consider whether the police unit CA07 would have been capable of travelling from Witham to whf in the same time, clearly they could not.

clifford

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Re: Why Nevill didn't call the Police
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2011, 10:44:AM »
... I would invite everyone to consider the following - (1) Jeremy makes his call to the police at around 3.36am, (2) call lasts around 10/11 minutes, terminating at around 3.45/3.46am, (3) Jeremy's timed arrival at the scene is/was 3.52am, but it remains possible that it could have been as late as 3.53am because of overlap. Based on these timings, it would have been possible for Jeremy to have made the 7 minute journey from his cottage at 9 Head street, Goldhanger to WHF...

Not at the speed he was witnessed to be travelling at by the occupants of police unit CA07.

In addition you are not taking into account the time required to find his keys, put two jumpers on and walk to the car, let's be generous and say that he was in a speedy mood and that only took three minutes, you are now trying to suggest that he then got to whf in four minutes whilst also being able to be overtaken by the police?

One must also consider whether the police unit CA07 would have been capable of travelling from Witham to whf in the same time, clearly they could not.
As for the reason of the speed of JB when the police overtook him, is it not reasonable that JB would have slowed down to "allow" the police to pass him.
I assume the police had blue lights flashing

Offline smiffy

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Re: Why Nevill didn't call the Police
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2011, 11:00:AM »
good point CLIFF

hmm those phone  logs...

The only good explanation for Sheila's age being given differently on one log to the other is if two calls were made and one of the different callers gave the wrong age.
If copying the age from one log to another its not something your going to get wrong now is it?

she cant be both 26 and 27...so one of the callers got it slightly wrong!

Hartley

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Re: Why Nevill didn't call the Police
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2011, 11:12:AM »
... I would invite everyone to consider the following - (1) Jeremy makes his call to the police at around 3.36am, (2) call lasts around 10/11 minutes, terminating at around 3.45/3.46am, (3) Jeremy's timed arrival at the scene is/was 3.52am, but it remains possible that it could have been as late as 3.53am because of overlap. Based on these timings, it would have been possible for Jeremy to have made the 7 minute journey from his cottage at 9 Head street, Goldhanger to WHF...

Not at the speed he was witnessed to be travelling at by the occupants of police unit CA07.

In addition you are not taking into account the time required to find his keys, put two jumpers on and walk to the car, let's be generous and say that he was in a speedy mood and that only took three minutes, you are now trying to suggest that he then got to whf in four minutes whilst also being able to be overtaken by the police?

One must also consider whether the police unit CA07 would have been capable of travelling from Witham to whf in the same time, clearly they could not.
As for the reason of the speed of JB when the police overtook him, is it not reasonable that JB would have slowed down to "allow" the police to pass him.
I assume the police had blue lights flashing

Yes it's possible he slowed down (I don't think we should assume anything, we don't know if the police had their blues on), however he still arrived a few minutes after police unit CA07 did, so he wasn't driving like Nigel Mansell, which he would have had to have done to make the journey in the time Mike suggests. I'm sorry but this theory is a dead end, it's just another twist to try and fit in a call from Ralph to the police.

Let us also not forget that Ralph could only have made the alleged call after Jeremy's call to the police, otherwise he would surely have mentioned it to Jeremy and as Jeremy has stated that he tried to call back but alleges that the phone was engaged.
Couple that with the advanced rigor mortis present in Ralphs body at the time of entry by the firearms unit, the theory and timings as put across in this instance do not add up.

I would suggest that a better theory would be to look at the apparent lack of rigor mortis in Sheila's body at the time she was photographed by Bird.

Offline smiffy

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Re: Why Nevill didn't call the Police
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2011, 11:20:AM »
... I would invite everyone to consider the following - (1) Jeremy makes his call to the police at around 3.36am, (2) call lasts around 10/11 minutes, terminating at around 3.45/3.46am, (3) Jeremy's timed arrival at the scene is/was 3.52am, but it remains possible that it could have been as late as 3.53am because of overlap. Based on these timings, it would have been possible for Jeremy to have made the 7 minute journey from his cottage at 9 Head street, Goldhanger to WHF...

Not at the speed he was witnessed to be travelling at by the occupants of police unit CA07.

In addition you are not taking into account the time required to find his keys, put two jumpers on and walk to the car, let's be generous and say that he was in a speedy mood and that only took three minutes, you are now trying to suggest that he then got to whf in four minutes whilst also being able to be overtaken by the police?

One must also consider whether the police unit CA07 would have been capable of travelling from Witham to whf in the same time, clearly they could not.


The 3 minutes to get to the car is rather ridiculous,,,
remember   the call from Ralph to JB was a while before JB decided to call the police...JB had plenty of time to get dressed , collect his car keys etc so could well have been ready to go as soon as the call to the police was ended.
Less than a minute seems far more credible.

This 10 or 11 minutes in which JB is allegedly in contact with the police on the phone...do we have phone logs from the police stating this time or is it just an estimate that may be  far longer than the time the real call duration actually was? From JB's perspective...I dont believe he was observing a clock at the time..and any waiting on the phone at a time of high anxiety would seem a lot longer than it really was.