Author Topic: Why Nevill didn't call the Police  (Read 41042 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online ngb1066

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6670
Re: Why Nevill didn't call the Police
« Reply #195 on: June 29, 2011, 06:41:PM »


If there was itemised billing then one side or the other would have waved it from the rooftops at trial. I believe the exchange in deepest Essex was ancient and not able to record anymore than units used.

That is most certainly a distinct and probable possibility. So why would Mike be telling porkies?

It has been suggested that trunk calls (i.e. long distance rather than local) may have been recorded as well as international calls. I suspect operator connected calls would also have been itemised.  I do not know whether the technology was available at the time for locally dialled calls to be specifically identified and timed.  Whatever the position Mike's views expressed here do not amount to "porkies", they are his understanding of the position.




Online ngb1066

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6670
Re: Why Nevill didn't call the Police
« Reply #196 on: June 29, 2011, 06:50:PM »
I know and agree. Hence my repeated requests for Mike to post Jeremy's original WITNESS statement, as made on 7 / 8 the August 1985 which will include Jeremy's version of the time of the alleged call from Nevill.

It is my belief this will be the time Jeremy either received the alleged call from Nevill if innocent or the time Jermey wanted everyone to believe.

There remains a possibility that Jeremy's original WITNESS statement may corroborate with Ann Eaton's hand written notes.


Jeremy's original witness statements.

He either doesn't have them or they are not helpful to Jeremy.  You choose?

Mike says he has them but will not post them because of some personal details which Jeremy mentioned about Colin Caffel.............??

Mikes had no problems with posting any other personal details.

Well it does seem that way.

I also seem to recall at some point Mike mentioned in a post that he had be told not to post them. I will need to check on that one.

Maybe requests should be repeated to try and get Mike to post Jeremy's original witness statement.

The thing is, and I respect that it's the case, but Mikes sole purpose is to utilise the documents and forum to publicise his view that JB is innocent. If there are documents which conflict with any aspect of his theories then he simply isn't going to post them.

Is that not at odds with the PII argument that is openly discussed on the forum.

Surely it would be better to lead by example within the context of the forum.

The truth isn't his goal, his goal is to try and persuade people that JB is innocent by any means, otherwise he would disclose the lot and let people paw over them and come to their own conclusions.

Mike has explained why he has not posted certain material within his possession, even though I suspect that in many cases he would have been perfectly prepared to do so.  We have seen evidence on this forum (apart from anything else through letters from Jeremy which Mike has posted) that Jeremy Bambers team are concentrating upon their further submissions to the CCRC and do not want anything to detract from that.  Mike has therefore deferred to the requests made by Jeremy that he should not continue to post documents in his possession. That should certainly not be held against Mike or treated as evidence that Mike is trying to filter the material published here so that it only points in the direction of Jeremy's innocence.  Mike has allowed very free debate here and has advanced his own opinions within that context.

NGB1066

May I ask why, in your opinion, anything on this forum may detract from what is happening with the CCRC?

The final submissions to the CCRC are being prepared and I suspect that Jeremy Bamber's advisors do not want there to be a "dry run" on this forum of some of the key aspects of those submissions in isolation or without the full material in support.  I can understand their caution about this, however frustrating this may be for forum members.  Mike has been urged to be cautious about what he publishes here and whether or not he agrees with that he has acceeded to the requests made by Jeremy Bamber and his team. 


Hartley

  • Guest
Re: Why Nevill didn't call the Police
« Reply #197 on: June 29, 2011, 06:51:PM »
Actually Mike said he had itemised bills for whf farm for previous months, so that would indeed be telling fibs if it turned out not to be the case.

Online ngb1066

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6670
Re: Why Nevill didn't call the Police
« Reply #198 on: June 29, 2011, 06:55:PM »
Actually Mike said he had itemised bills for whf farm for previous months, so that would indeed be telling fibs if it turned out not to be the case.

If Mike says he has itemised bills then I believe he does have them.  The key issue however is the extent of the information which is itemised on the bills and I am not sure that Mike has gone into detail on that.

   

Offline curiousessex

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1418
  • ROCH INDEX 70
Re: Why Nevill didn't call the Police
« Reply #199 on: June 29, 2011, 06:56:PM »
I know and agree. Hence my repeated requests for Mike to post Jeremy's original WITNESS statement, as made on 7 / 8 the August 1985 which will include Jeremy's version of the time of the alleged call from Nevill.

It is my belief this will be the time Jeremy either received the alleged call from Nevill if innocent or the time Jermey wanted everyone to believe.

There remains a possibility that Jeremy's original WITNESS statement may corroborate with Ann Eaton's hand written notes.


Jeremy's original witness statements.

He either doesn't have them or they are not helpful to Jeremy.  You choose?

Mike says he has them but will not post them because of some personal details which Jeremy mentioned about Colin Caffel.............??

Mikes had no problems with posting any other personal details.

Well it does seem that way.

I also seem to recall at some point Mike mentioned in a post that he had be told not to post them. I will need to check on that one.

Maybe requests should be repeated to try and get Mike to post Jeremy's original witness statement.

The thing is, and I respect that it's the case, but Mikes sole purpose is to utilise the documents and forum to publicise his view that JB is innocent. If there are documents which conflict with any aspect of his theories then he simply isn't going to post them.

Is that not at odds with the PII argument that is openly discussed on the forum.

Surely it would be better to lead by example within the context of the forum.

The truth isn't his goal, his goal is to try and persuade people that JB is innocent by any means, otherwise he would disclose the lot and let people paw over them and come to their own conclusions.

Mike has explained why he has not posted certain material within his possession, even though I suspect that in many cases he would have been perfectly prepared to do so.  We have seen evidence on this forum (apart from anything else through letters from Jeremy which Mike has posted) that Jeremy Bambers team are concentrating upon their further submissions to the CCRC and do not want anything to detract from that.  Mike has therefore deferred to the requests made by Jeremy that he should not continue to post documents in his possession. That should certainly not be held against Mike or treated as evidence that Mike is trying to filter the material published here so that it only points in the direction of Jeremy's innocence.  Mike has allowed very free debate here and has advanced his own opinions within that context.

NGB1066

May I ask why, in your opinion, anything on this forum may detract from what is happening with the CCRC?

The final submissions to the CCRC are being prepared and I suspect that Jeremy Bamber's advisors do not want there to be a "dry run" on this forum of some of the key aspects of those submissions in isolation or without the full material in support.  I can understand their caution about this, however frustrating this may be for forum members.  Mike has been urged to be cautious about what he publishes here and whether or not he agrees with that he has acceeded to the requests made by Jeremy Bamber and his team.

Do you really think what is discussed on here affects the CCRC?

I thought they are supposed to be professionally independent.

Jerry

  • Guest
Re: Why Nevill didn't call the Police
« Reply #200 on: June 29, 2011, 06:58:PM »
If there were any clues in the paperwork or the photos the members here would find it long before the CCRC could ever do so. That I believe is the fear.

simong

  • Guest
Re: Why Nevill didn't call the Police
« Reply #201 on: June 29, 2011, 07:05:PM »
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,549.0.html

This is the thread where Mike specifically says there are Local itemised bills going back to 1984.

Online ngb1066

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6670
Re: Why Nevill didn't call the Police
« Reply #202 on: June 29, 2011, 07:05:PM »
I know and agree. Hence my repeated requests for Mike to post Jeremy's original WITNESS statement, as made on 7 / 8 the August 1985 which will include Jeremy's version of the time of the alleged call from Nevill.

It is my belief this will be the time Jeremy either received the alleged call from Nevill if innocent or the time Jermey wanted everyone to believe.

There remains a possibility that Jeremy's original WITNESS statement may corroborate with Ann Eaton's hand written notes.


Jeremy's original witness statements.

He either doesn't have them or they are not helpful to Jeremy.  You choose?

Mike says he has them but will not post them because of some personal details which Jeremy mentioned about Colin Caffel.............??

Mikes had no problems with posting any other personal details.

Well it does seem that way.

I also seem to recall at some point Mike mentioned in a post that he had be told not to post them. I will need to check on that one.

Maybe requests should be repeated to try and get Mike to post Jeremy's original witness statement.

The thing is, and I respect that it's the case, but Mikes sole purpose is to utilise the documents and forum to publicise his view that JB is innocent. If there are documents which conflict with any aspect of his theories then he simply isn't going to post them.

Is that not at odds with the PII argument that is openly discussed on the forum.

Surely it would be better to lead by example within the context of the forum.

The truth isn't his goal, his goal is to try and persuade people that JB is innocent by any means, otherwise he would disclose the lot and let people paw over them and come to their own conclusions.

Mike has explained why he has not posted certain material within his possession, even though I suspect that in many cases he would have been perfectly prepared to do so.  We have seen evidence on this forum (apart from anything else through letters from Jeremy which Mike has posted) that Jeremy Bambers team are concentrating upon their further submissions to the CCRC and do not want anything to detract from that.  Mike has therefore deferred to the requests made by Jeremy that he should not continue to post documents in his possession. That should certainly not be held against Mike or treated as evidence that Mike is trying to filter the material published here so that it only points in the direction of Jeremy's innocence.  Mike has allowed very free debate here and has advanced his own opinions within that context.

NGB1066

May I ask why, in your opinion, anything on this forum may detract from what is happening with the CCRC?

The final submissions to the CCRC are being prepared and I suspect that Jeremy Bamber's advisors do not want there to be a "dry run" on this forum of some of the key aspects of those submissions in isolation or without the full material in support.  I can understand their caution about this, however frustrating this may be for forum members.  Mike has been urged to be cautious about what he publishes here and whether or not he agrees with that he has acceeded to the requests made by Jeremy Bamber and his team.

Do you really think what is discussed on here affects the CCRC?

I thought they are supposed to be professionally independent.

What is discussed on this forum should not affect the CCRC and yes, the CCRC is supposed to be professionally independent.  However the CCRC have not covered themselves in glory generally and in particular in relation to this case.  I sense that they feel under a considerable amount of scrutiny and are aware of the bulid up of public concern.  Against that background the PR campaigning on behalf of Jeremy Bamber is increasingly significant in my view.  What is discussed on this forum, particularly if it amounts to arguments not presented fully and without the benefit of the supporting evidence, could have an affect on the public campaign and to that extent could in indirect impact on the CCRC.


Jerry

  • Guest
Re: Why Nevill didn't call the Police
« Reply #203 on: June 29, 2011, 07:15:PM »

chochokeira

  • Guest
Re: Why Nevill didn't call the Police
« Reply #204 on: June 29, 2011, 07:17:PM »
I know and agree. Hence my repeated requests for Mike to post Jeremy's original WITNESS statement, as made on 7 / 8 the August 1985 which will include Jeremy's version of the time of the alleged call from Nevill.

It is my belief this will be the time Jeremy either received the alleged call from Nevill if innocent or the time Jermey wanted everyone to believe.

There remains a possibility that Jeremy's original WITNESS statement may corroborate with Ann Eaton's hand written notes.


Jeremy's original witness statements.

He either doesn't have them or they are not helpful to Jeremy.  You choose?

Mike says he has them but will not post them because of some personal details which Jeremy mentioned about Colin Caffel.............??

Mikes had no problems with posting any other personal details.

Well it does seem that way.

I also seem to recall at some point Mike mentioned in a post that he had be told not to post them. I will need to check on that one.

Maybe requests should be repeated to try and get Mike to post Jeremy's original witness statement.

The thing is, and I respect that it's the case, but Mikes sole purpose is to utilise the documents and forum to publicise his view that JB is innocent. If there are documents which conflict with any aspect of his theories then he simply isn't going to post them.

 

This is mere speculation, Harters.

Offline curiousessex

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1418
  • ROCH INDEX 70
Re: Why Nevill didn't call the Police
« Reply #205 on: June 30, 2011, 10:40:AM »
Do you still believe this? That the call to JM by JB was supposed to be before JB called the Police?

It's a difficult one to pin down.

The simple fact is that no matter which way you swing it, JB was on the phone to the police between 3:26 and 3:37 (give or take a minute either way).

So the call from JB to JM must have been either before 3:26 or after 3:37.

Based on the arrival of JB at the scene of the murders at around 3:48, it would seem unlikely that he would have had the time to call JM after his call to the police and then and drive slowly to the whf.

It would therefore seem most likely that JB's call took place before he called the police at 3:26.

In order to accomodate the theory that the 3.26 log relates to Nevill calling the police and that this was the reason for Jeremy getting the engaged tone when he rang Nevill back. Jeremy admits he tried to call Nevill back straight away after the line went dead. Jeremy distinctly remebers getting the engaged tone.

In this theory scenario Jeremy would therefore put the telephone call as received from Nevill to himself at just before 3.26 am.

Yes but that can't possibly be the case, as that would put JB's call to the police at 3:36 which would not give him time to arrive at whf at 3:48 bearing in mind the length of his call to the police.

If Nevill called the police (which I don't believe happened) then Nevills call must have been before 3:26 minus a few minutes for JB to look up the local police number in the yellow pages, and possibly minus the time it took him to call JM.

I know and agree. Hence my repeated requests for Mike to post Jeremy's original WITNESS statement, as made on 7 / 8 the August 1985 which will include Jeremy's version of the time of the alleged call from Nevill.

It is my belief this will be the time Jeremy either received the alleged call from Nevill if innocent or the time Jermey wanted everyone to believe.

There remains a possibility that Jeremy's original WITNESS statement may corroborate with Ann Eaton's hand written notes.


I have found some details included in Roger Wilkes' book 'Blood Relations' which directly reference Jeremy's original statement on 8th August 1985.

For clarity, should anyone wish to check the following extract is detailed on page 136 -

' Stan Jones reminded Jeremy Bamber that he had been asked by several police officers about his actions that night, and that he had said he phoned the police before calling Julie. So what was the correct order?

'I don't remember,' said Jeremy, 'but my first statement was done at the time and must be correct.'

'[In his statement on 8 August, Jeremy Bamber claimed that he called Chelmsford Police 'immediately' after getting the engaged tone. He timed his father's call at about 3.10 a.m. According to his first statement, it was 'about 3.25 when he telephoned Julie to tell her something seemed to be wrong.] '
« Last Edit: June 30, 2011, 10:46:AM by curiousessex »

Offline smiffy

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2000
Re: Why Nevill didn't call the Police
« Reply #206 on: June 30, 2011, 05:45:PM »
Do you still believe this? That the call to JM by JB was supposed to be before JB called the Police?

It's a difficult one to pin down.

The simple fact is that no matter which way you swing it, JB was on the phone to the police between 3:26 and 3:37 (give or take a minute either way).

So the call from JB to JM must have been either before 3:26 or after 3:37.

Based on the arrival of JB at the scene of the murders at around 3:48, it would seem unlikely that he would have had the time to call JM after his call to the police and then and drive slowly to the whf.

It would therefore seem most likely that JB's call took place before he called the police at 3:26.

In order to accomodate the theory that the 3.26 log relates to Nevill calling the police and that this was the reason for Jeremy getting the engaged tone when he rang Nevill back. Jeremy admits he tried to call Nevill back straight away after the line went dead. Jeremy distinctly remebers getting the engaged tone.

In this theory scenario Jeremy would therefore put the telephone call as received from Nevill to himself at just before 3.26 am.

Yes but that can't possibly be the case, as that would put JB's call to the police at 3:36 which would not give him time to arrive at whf at 3:48 bearing in mind the length of his call to the police.

If Nevill called the police (which I don't believe happened) then Nevills call must have been before 3:26 minus a few minutes for JB to look up the local police number in the yellow pages, and possibly minus the time it took him to call JM.

I know and agree. Hence my repeated requests for Mike to post Jeremy's original WITNESS statement, as made on 7 / 8 the August 1985 which will include Jeremy's version of the time of the alleged call from Nevill.

It is my belief this will be the time Jeremy either received the alleged call from Nevill if innocent or the time Jermey wanted everyone to believe.

There remains a possibility that Jeremy's original WITNESS statement may corroborate with Ann Eaton's hand written notes.


I have found some details included in Roger Wilkes' book 'Blood Relations' which directly reference Jeremy's original statement on 8th August 1985.

For clarity, should anyone wish to check the following extract is detailed on page 136 -

' Stan Jones reminded Jeremy Bamber that he had been asked by several police officers about his actions that night, and that he had said he phoned the police before calling Julie. So what was the correct order?

'I don't remember,' said Jeremy, 'but my first statement was done at the time and must be correct.'

'[In his statement on 8 August, Jeremy Bamber claimed that he called Chelmsford Police 'immediately' after getting the engaged tone. He timed his father's call at about 3.10 a.m. According to his first statement, it was 'about 3.25 when he telephoned Julie to tell her something seemed to be wrong.] '

ah  the 8th august statement...
is this info taken from the handwritten version that must be part of the "suicide investigation"...or is it from a typed version....
obviously this was not taped.....and do we know if what JB said was taken down verbatim....or is it from police officers notebooks etc
in other words  how do we know this claimed summary was correct at all?


similarly with the stan jones nonsense..... Lets remind people ..police are allowed to lie and use all sorts of dirty tricks in interviews to get the answers they desire....and the way EP behaved in this investigation...little trust should be put into anything they claim people may have said or not.


Anne Eaton gave very conflicting accounts about the so called silencer finding and transportation...WHY WASNT THE GESTAPO ROLLED OUT...?  etc etc etc

Offline curiousessex

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1418
  • ROCH INDEX 70
Re: Why Nevill didn't call the Police
« Reply #207 on: June 30, 2011, 05:56:PM »
Do you still believe this? That the call to JM by JB was supposed to be before JB called the Police?

It's a difficult one to pin down.

The simple fact is that no matter which way you swing it, JB was on the phone to the police between 3:26 and 3:37 (give or take a minute either way).

So the call from JB to JM must have been either before 3:26 or after 3:37.

Based on the arrival of JB at the scene of the murders at around 3:48, it would seem unlikely that he would have had the time to call JM after his call to the police and then and drive slowly to the whf.

It would therefore seem most likely that JB's call took place before he called the police at 3:26.

In order to accomodate the theory that the 3.26 log relates to Nevill calling the police and that this was the reason for Jeremy getting the engaged tone when he rang Nevill back. Jeremy admits he tried to call Nevill back straight away after the line went dead. Jeremy distinctly remebers getting the engaged tone.

In this theory scenario Jeremy would therefore put the telephone call as received from Nevill to himself at just before 3.26 am.

Yes but that can't possibly be the case, as that would put JB's call to the police at 3:36 which would not give him time to arrive at whf at 3:48 bearing in mind the length of his call to the police.

If Nevill called the police (which I don't believe happened) then Nevills call must have been before 3:26 minus a few minutes for JB to look up the local police number in the yellow pages, and possibly minus the time it took him to call JM.

I know and agree. Hence my repeated requests for Mike to post Jeremy's original WITNESS statement, as made on 7 / 8 the August 1985 which will include Jeremy's version of the time of the alleged call from Nevill.

It is my belief this will be the time Jeremy either received the alleged call from Nevill if innocent or the time Jermey wanted everyone to believe.

There remains a possibility that Jeremy's original WITNESS statement may corroborate with Ann Eaton's hand written notes.


I have found some details included in Roger Wilkes' book 'Blood Relations' which directly reference Jeremy's original statement on 8th August 1985.

For clarity, should anyone wish to check the following extract is detailed on page 136 -

' Stan Jones reminded Jeremy Bamber that he had been asked by several police officers about his actions that night, and that he had said he phoned the police before calling Julie. So what was the correct order?

'I don't remember,' said Jeremy, 'but my first statement was done at the time and must be correct.'

'[In his statement on 8 August, Jeremy Bamber claimed that he called Chelmsford Police 'immediately' after getting the engaged tone. He timed his father's call at about 3.10 a.m. According to his first statement, it was 'about 3.25 when he telephoned Julie to tell her something seemed to be wrong.] '

ah  the 8th august statement...
is this info taken from the handwritten version that must be part of the "suicide investigation"...or is it from a typed version....
obviously this was not taped.....and do we know if what JB said was taken down verbatim....or is it from police officers notebooks etc
in other words  how do we know this claimed summary was correct at all?


similarly with the stan jones nonsense..... Lets remind people ..police are allowed to lie and use all sorts of dirty tricks in interviews to get the answers they desire....and the way EP behaved in this investigation...little trust should be put into anything they claim people may have said or not.


Anne Eaton gave very conflicting accounts about the so called silencer finding and transportation...WHY WASNT THE GESTAPO ROLLED OUT...?  etc etc etc

Smiffy

The source is revealed in the post.

In answer to your question...........I do not know but I suspect it is taken from the equivalent of the Julie Mugford witness statement as taken on 8th August 1985 as has been posted by Mike on the forum. I believe this can be seen in the Jeremy's original statment thread.

I guess you should really be asking Mike as he has confirmed on the forum that he has a copy of Jeremy's original statement. Mike has detailed that he has been told not to post a copy of Jeremy's original statement.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2011, 06:29:PM by curiousessex »

chochokeira

  • Guest
Re: Why Nevill didn't call the Police
« Reply #208 on: June 30, 2011, 11:51:PM »
Do you still believe this? That the call to JM by JB was supposed to be before JB called the Police?

It's a difficult one to pin down.

The simple fact is that no matter which way you swing it, JB was on the phone to the police between 3:26 and 3:37 (give or take a minute either way).

So the call from JB to JM must have been either before 3:26 or after 3:37.

Based on the arrival of JB at the scene of the murders at around 3:48, it would seem unlikely that he would have had the time to call JM after his call to the police and then and drive slowly to the whf.

It would therefore seem most likely that JB's call took place before he called the police at 3:26.

In order to accomodate the theory that the 3.26 log relates to Nevill calling the police and that this was the reason for Jeremy getting the engaged tone when he rang Nevill back. Jeremy admits he tried to call Nevill back straight away after the line went dead. Jeremy distinctly remebers getting the engaged tone.

In this theory scenario Jeremy would therefore put the telephone call as received from Nevill to himself at just before 3.26 am.

Yes but that can't possibly be the case, as that would put JB's call to the police at 3:36 which would not give him time to arrive at whf at 3:48 bearing in mind the length of his call to the police.

If Nevill called the police (which I don't believe happened) then Nevills call must have been before 3:26 minus a few minutes for JB to look up the local police number in the yellow pages, and possibly minus the time it took him to call JM.

I know and agree. Hence my repeated requests for Mike to post Jeremy's original WITNESS statement, as made on 7 / 8 the August 1985 which will include Jeremy's version of the time of the alleged call from Nevill.

It is my belief this will be the time Jeremy either received the alleged call from Nevill if innocent or the time Jermey wanted everyone to believe.

There remains a possibility that Jeremy's original WITNESS statement may corroborate with Ann Eaton's hand written notes.


I have found some details included in Roger Wilkes' book 'Blood Relations' which directly reference Jeremy's original statement on 8th August 1985.

For clarity, should anyone wish to check the following extract is detailed on page 136 -

' Stan Jones reminded Jeremy Bamber that he had been asked by several police officers about his actions that night, and that he had said he phoned the police before calling Julie. So what was the correct order?

'I don't remember,' said Jeremy, 'but my first statement was done at the time and must be correct.'

'[In his statement on 8 August, Jeremy Bamber claimed that he called Chelmsford Police 'immediately' after getting the engaged tone. He timed his father's call at about 3.10 a.m. According to his first statement, it was 'about 3.25 when he telephoned Julie to tell her something seemed to be wrong.] '


CE, without looking at your telephone or mobile records, can you:

Recall two telephone calls you made or received on 1st June?

Or the nearest day to 1st June if there were not two calls then?

Can you recall the times you made or received these calls?

Can you be certain of the order with which these calls were made/ taken?

I certainly can't recall any of the above.

I accept that 7-8th August were important days in Jeremy Bamber's life, however, it was also the start of a traumatic period when there would have been a great deal happening.

Remember too that Jeremy had been prescribed and was taking tranquilisers at that time, I believe these in themselves can have a damaging impact on memory. They wiped out the memory and the capacity to rationalise of a friend of mine.

hartley

  • Guest
Re: Why Nevill didn't call the Police
« Reply #209 on: July 01, 2011, 12:07:AM »
I can, does that count?

I think when a major incident occurs you know exactly where you were and what you did, I don't recall what I did this time last week or month or year, but I recall the entire day almost minute by minute when the bombs went off in London on 7/7, I think that's just the way it works.