Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?

[Caroline]

He alerted Jeremy to get him to the farm - he needed to kill him too - or no money for Anthony ...

Anthony knew where the spare key was kept and knew the farm as well as Jeremy did - Anthony grew up there ...

Anthony would have been as capable of entering and leaving the property as Jeremy was.

He might have been seen 3 times :

1) movement in the window
2) gun in the window (WPC Jeaves statement)
3) hunched up man seen leaving area by Police - Police statement at press conference ...

And he had no opportunity to kill them why they were all present - in the daytime there was too many other people potentially visiting or working at the farm - it had to be night time and it had to be that weekend while Sheila was visiting - it was his only opportunity ...

Why exactly is it far fetched ?

Just because you have a pre conceived notion of Anthony or have never considered this possibility before does not make it far fetched ...

Anthony losing his parents at an early age might have given him serious mental problems.

He liked shooting animals.

He maybe resented the adopted Jeremy and Sheila inheriting what he felt was his rightful inheritance ...

He ended up with a substatial part of the money ...

Why is it far fetched ?

On what logical basis ?

Please post an official reference to a hunched man leaving the farm. I'm sick of people posting this - are we to believe that in a seige situation, the cops just let someone walk away? Please!

[guest2181]

The strength of a discussion forum (and indeed a Jury) is the combined knowledge and experience of it's members ....

I can contribute an in depth knowledge of the mind set of middle class people from Essex in 1985 ...

Based on my knowledge i would have assumed that after receiving the phone call that Jeremy would have turned up at the farm house alone ...

It was apparently only his sister having a bit of a turn and Jeremy was needed at the farm to help his father calm her down ...

You have to understand that the Bambers DEFINITELY would have gone to great lengths not to involve the authorities in this type of incidence and would have wanted to resolve it themselves ...

Sheila had never been violent before so why should this incident be a problem ?

It was a very good bet that he would respond to the call and do so on his own without phoning the Police ...

If Neville had wanted the Police there then he would have called them himself - right ?

So what went wrong ?

I believe something in the tone of Nevilles voice spooked Jeremy ...

That is why he called the Police ...

And that is why Anthony had to put plan B into practice ...

He probably had not even considered a plan B until plan A had gone wrong ...

How could AP be certain that he could set the scene to make it look like Sheila was responsible? In your scenario it's already planned by getting Nevill to tell Jeremy.

What were the other occupants of the house doing? Surely the children would have woken? 

[sherlock]

Please post an official reference to a hunched man leaving the farm. I'm sick of people posting this - are we to believe that in a seige situation, the cops just let someone walk away? Please!

A press conference was given by Essex Police in september 1985.
All the major press were there.
The Police asked for information about the hunched up man that they saw leaving  the area.
I will post a link soon ...

[sherlock]

How could AP be certain that he could set the scene to make it look like Sheila was responsible? In your scenario it's already planned by getting Nevill to tell Jeremy.

What were the other occupants of the house doing? Surely the children would have woken? 

If Sheila did not do it then someone made it look like her - why not Anthony ?
The phone call would have set the scene - the gun on Sheilas chest would have confirmed it ...

I assume the other occupants of the house would have been asleep ...
If the shooting started in the bedroom then that accounts for June ..
Maybe Sheila woke up maybe not ...
It seems clear that whoever did the shooting that the noise did not in fact wake the 2 children up ..

[guest2181]

If Sheila did not do it then someone made it look like her - why not Anthony ?
The phone call would have set the scene - the gun on Sheilas chest would have confirmed it ...

I assume the other occupants of the house would have been asleep ...
If the shooting started in the bedroom then that accounts for June ..
Maybe Sheila woke up maybe not ...
It seems clear that whoever did the shooting that the noise did not in fact wake the 2 children up ..

That doesn't make sense. How could AP have known that he could frame Sheila when he's getting Nevill to call JB. How did he know that Sheila wouldn't put up a fight? It is not just about a rifle on her chest.

For the twins to still be asleep, then they are likely to have been the first victims, which doesn't fit your scenario.

I understand your point about not limiting the potential culprits to Sheila or JB, which ultimately meant that the prosecution only needed to show that Sheila wasn't responsible in order to prove that JB therefore must have been. It's been discussed many times in the past.

For me, your AP scenario is far fetched and doesn't have any supporting evidence.

[Adam]

AP killing everyone, then staging the frame Sheila. Joker.

[Caroline]

A press conference was given by Essex Police in september 1985.
All the major press were there.
The Police asked for information about the hunched up man that they saw leaving  the area.
I will post a link soon ...

Post proof. How's Sweeny doing? 

[lookout]

I found it odd that AP had appeared at WHF out of the blue. I don't know when his last visit was prior to the weekend before the tragedy,but he seemed to have timed it well being the weekend before Sheila and the twins were there.
I'm not saying he shouldn't have visited,as after all, June and Neville were like his adoptive parents too.Maybe some animosity/jealousy there too when Jeremy and Sheila were adopted,there was bound to have been and children don't forget.

[Caroline]

Didn't he successfully sue The Sport newspaper for these very same allegations?

[sherlock]

Didn't he successfully sue The Sport newspaper for these very same allegations?

Yes he did.
He received £40,000 damages and £60,000 legal costs.
In 1991 £40,000 could have bought you a house in many parts of the UK.

What the Sport alleged was that his gun was at the property on the night of the murders and that it might have actually been used in the murders.

The matter was not tested in Court - the Sport took the commercial decision not to contest it.
The choice they faced was to pay the £100,000 to end the matter or pay £500,000 in costs to contest it.
If they won Anthony would not have had the £500,000 to pay them.

They obviously believed what they printed - they had informed the public of this real possibility - but they decided not to waste £500,000 with the lawyers.

[sherlock]

I found it odd that AP had appeared at WHF out of the blue. I don't know when his last visit was prior to the weekend before the tragedy,but he seemed to have timed it well being the weekend before Sheila and the twins were there.
I'm not saying he shouldn't have visited,as after all, June and Neville were like his adoptive parents too.Maybe some animosity/jealousy there too when Jeremy and Sheila were adopted,there was bound to have been and children don't forget.

According to his statement the first thing he did when he arrived at the farm was to enquire where his gun was and to go straight to it and set the sights to be accurate - as well as have a good look at the Bambers new rifle ...

He was obviously very keen on guns ...

Strange he didn't want to see and say hello to Neville, Jeremy, Sheila or the twins before sorting the two guns out ...

Sort of shows his priorities and what was foremost in his mind in my opinion ...

It seems fair to assume his main motive for his visit was possibly related to the gun/s ...

[Caroline]

According to his statement the first thing he did when he arrived at the farm was to enquire where his gun was and to go straight to it and set the sights to be accurate - as well as have a good look at the Bambers new rifle ...

He was obviously very keen on guns ...

Strange he didn't want to see and say hello to Neville, Jeremy, Sheila or the twins before sorting the two guns out ...

Sort of shows his priorities and what was foremost in his mind in my opinion ...

It seems fair to assume his main motive for his visit was possibly related to the gun/s ...

Sheila and the twins were not at the farm when AP was there and Nevill and Jeremy weren't around. Don't twist things to suit - also, where is the evidence of the hunched man?

 

[sherlock]

Sheila and the twins were not at the farm when AP was there and Nevill and Jeremy weren't around. Don't twist things to suit - also, where is the evidence of the hunched man?

God points Caroline - you are right ...

But the first thing on Anthony's mind was still to go to his gun and fix the sights and have a good look at the Bamber's new gun - agreed ?

I will soon be posting further relating to the hunched man - before i do i am gathering enough evidence to show you that should settle the point once and for all ...

If i show you i am right about the hunched man will it make you curious ?

Added to the possible sighting of a gun in one window (by a WPC firearms instructor) and possible movement in another it would sort of raise a question mark wouldn't you say ?

Anyway i am gathering the evidence on this point now ...

[lookout]

According to his statement the first thing he did when he arrived at the farm was to enquire where his gun was and to go straight to it and set the sights to be accurate - as well as have a good look at the Bambers new rifle ...

He was obviously very keen on guns ...

Strange he didn't want to see and say hello to Neville, Jeremy, Sheila or the twins before sorting the two guns out ...

Sort of shows his priorities and what was foremost in his mind in my opinion ...

It seems fair to assume his main motive for his visit was possibly related to the gun/s ...

AP's rifle,etc was licensed at WHF,hence it had been kept there,but didn't he come unstuck when he'd denied his rifle being there, that he hadn't wanted it be known that it was at his own home address,so where did he think it would have been ? If he'd taken it home he'd have been in hot water with the law as the rule was that it stayed at the address it was licensed at,namely WHF.

[Caroline]

God points Caroline - you are right ...

But the first thing on Anthony's mind was still to go to his gun and fix the sights and have a good look at the Bamber's new gun - agreed ?

I will soon be posting further relating to the hunched man - before i do i am gathering enough evidence to show you that should settle the point once and for all ...

If i show you i am right about the hunched man will it make you curious ?

Added to the possible sighting of a gun in one window (by a WPC firearms instructor) and possible movement in another it would sort of raise a question mark wouldn't you say ?

Anyway i am gathering the evidence on this point now ...

You don't need to write a prologue - just post some 'official' evidence that there was a hunched man seen leaving WHF on the night of the murders. Then we can all either accept there was one or kick it to the curb.

I don't see anything remotely suspicious in AP going to look for his rifle.