Question Re 'Firearms Team Are In Conversation'

[No-Bits]

And I am telling you that you only have Adam's account that Jeremy said this and none of the other raid team are saying that they were informed by Adam's that loaded weapons were inside the farm house. Or maybe Adam's did not find it important enough to inform his team??? Dear! lol

Again, not an argument that I am making.

Why has Jeremy told the police that he left a loaded rifle in the house and that there were several other loaded accessible firearms present? When neither turned out to be true, with Jeremy even changing his story on the loaded Anshutz.

[Patti]

And the fact remains that Adams fetched more men in because of the size of the farm house and does not mention that more men were called in because he had been informed that Jeremy had told him the weapons in the house were loaded. 

[No-Bits]

And the fact remains that Adams fetched more men in because of the size of the farm house and does not mention that more men were called in because he had been informed that Jeremy had told him the weapons in the house were loaded. 

But I don't care about that, he could have fetched more men because they had the wrong hats on for all I care.

Why has Jeremy told the police that there were loaded weapons inside, including a loaded rifle which he had left out?

[Patti]

Again, not an argument that I am making.

Why has Jeremy told the police that he left a loaded rifle in the house and that there were several other loaded accessible firearms present? When neither turned out to be true, with Jeremy even changing his story on the loaded Anshutz.

We don't know that Jeremy did say that, neither of us were there. Just because it was put in Adam's statement does not mean that it was actually said. If it was said I feel sure that Adam's would have informed his men and he didn't....that is a fact.

It is a valid point that Ralf has made and its brilliant to debate it, but we don't always come up with the same interpretation.  If you look back on what Bew's, Mayall and what Jones said it is different and this is a point that really needs to be looked at....because none of them say Jeremy told them the weapons inside the house were loaded do they? Only Adam's is saying this. 

[No-Bits]

We don't know that Jeremy did say that, neither of us were there. Just because it was put in Adam's statement does not mean that it was actually said. If it was said I feel sure that Adam's would have informed his men and he didn't....that is a fact.

It is a valid point that Ralf has made and its brilliant to debate it, but we don't always come up with the same interpretation.  If you look back on what Bew's, Mayall and what Jones said it is different and this is a point that really needs to be looked at....because none of them say Jeremy told them the weapons inside the house were loaded do they? Only Adam's is saying this. 

Well of course none of them said that JB told them about loaded weapons, that's because JB didn't tell them. JB told Adams, and Adams has recorded that JB told him that he left out a loaded rifle and and that other loaded weapons were present.

Why did JB say that to Adams, when neither were true? Or are you suggesting that Adams was lying?

[No-Bits]

Are you suggesting that there isn't even the remotest of possibilities that Jeremy was attempting to escalate the danger and delay the police from entering?

I cannot otherwise explain why JB would tell Adams that he had left out a loaded rifle and that that there were numerous other loaded firearms in the house, when neither were true.

[Patti]

Well of course none of them said that JB told them about loaded weapons, that's because JB didn't tell them. JB told Adams, and Adams has recorded that JB told him that he left out a loaded rifle and and that other loaded weapons were present.

Why did JB say that to Adams, when neither were true? Or are you suggesting that Adams was lying?

And Adams forgot to tell his men....how unthoughtful of him in his briefing.?? 

I'm not saying he is lying, I am saying that certain emphasis on the wordings have been left out....Why would Jeremy tell only Adam's  and not the rest of the people he talked to at the time?

I'll go with what the majority have said in their statements.....and that Adams sent for more men because of the size of the farmhouse and that he didn't base this on what he was allegedly been told by Jeremy. 

[No-Bits]

Nothing suggests that the information regarding loaded weapons was not circulated, quite the opposite.

Why has Jeremy sought to hinder the police by giving them false information?

Why on Earth would he do that?

[Caroline R]

Nothing suggests that the information regarding loaded weapons was not circulated, quite the opposite.

Why has Jeremy sought to hinder the police by giving them false information?

Why on Earth would he do that?

You are assuming it's false information, how do you know guns weren't often left out loaded? There were certainly guns left out because the relatives commented on it and Peter Eaton felt the need to 'put a gun back'. AS I have said, perhaps he didn't remember taking out the magazine or maybe he left it loaded.

[Patti]

Nothing suggests that the information regarding loaded weapons was not circulated, quite the opposite.

Why has Jeremy sought to hinder the police by giving them false information?

Why on Earth would he do that?

Equally there is nothing to suggest it was circulated either.  One has to consider that during the briefing they were told about Sheila and rifle 18 this is reported on all the raid teams statements and yet none of them say anything about other loaded weapons.  Based on that I assume Adam's did not think to mention it to his men....

Why has Jeremy hindered anything? He was not to know what the police would do in this sort of situation, nor could he have known how long it would take for them to enter the farmhouse.  The delay in entering is very clear with Adam's requesting more men because of the size of the farmhouse....and that is a fact....

I feel I am going round in circles over this......we shall have to agree to disagree, but enjoyed the argument, but at the end of the day....a jury would believe me over you.....lol 

[Caroline R]

Equally there is nothing to suggest it was circulated either.  One has to consider that during the briefing they were told about Sheila and rifle 18 this is reported on all the raid teams statements and yet none of them say anything about other loaded weapons.  Based on that I assume Adam's did not think to mention it to his men....

Why has Jeremy hindered anything? He was not to know what the police would do in this sort of situation, nor could he have known how long it would take for them to enter the farmhouse.  The delay in entering is very clear with Adam's requesting more men because of the size of the farmhouse....and that is a fact....

I feel I am going round in circles over this......we shall have to agree to disagree, but enjoyed the argument, but at the end of the day....a jury would believe me over you.....lol 

Which is the whole crux of the argument - he couldn't have known what would happen once the police were at the scene!!

[No-Bits]

Equally there is nothing to suggest it was circulated either.  One has to consider that during the briefing they were told about Sheila and rifle 18 this is reported on all the raid teams statements and yet none of them say anything about other loaded weapons.  Based on that I assume Adam's did not think to mention it to his men....

Why has Jeremy hindered anything? He was not to know what the police would do in this sort of situation, nor could he have known how long it would take for them to enter the farmhouse.  The delay in entering is very clear with Adam's requesting more men because of the size of the farmhouse....and that is a fact....

I feel I am going round in circles over this......we shall have to agree to disagree, but enjoyed the argument, but at the end of the day....a jury would believe me over you.....lol 

So you are suggesting that after being told about loaded firearms present in the house, Adams simply kept the information to himself?

And you say this because it isn't mentioned in composite statements put together to submit the case to the CPS.

Either that or you you are telling us that Adams has lied?

Why has Jeremy given the police false information regarding the presence of loaded firearms?

[Patti]

Which is the whole crux of the argument - he couldn't have known what would happen once the police were at the scene!!

Hi Caroline

I doubt the police themselves knew let alone Jeremy. I find it odd that what Adam's said in his 7th August statement about what Jeremy had told him. It beyond me why he fails to tell his team that there were loaded weapons inside the house.  Part of me does not believe Jeremy said this to Adam's...I base that on what the majority have said in there statements regarding the weapons.   

[Caroline R]

Hi Caroline

I doubt the police themselves knew let alone Jeremy. I find it odd that what Adam's said in his 7th August statement about what Jeremy had told him. It beyond me why he fails to tell his team that there were loaded weapons inside the house.  Part of me does not believe Jeremy said this to Adam's...I base that on what the majority have said in there statements regarding the weapons.   

Pick up any two statements in respect to the same thing Patti and there are always discrepancies, be they written by the same person or two people standing together!! I'd have thought that Adams would have made it clear to his team that they might be dealing with someone who had access to multiple loaded weapons. As we have both argued, there is no way he could have controlled what the police did once they became involved - he had no idea that the house wouldn't be stormed as soon as police arrived or that a firearms division would be called.

[No-Bits]

What other possible reasons are there for Jeremy wanting the police to believe that the house contained several loaded and accessible firearms, when that was clearly untrue?