Could Someone other than Jeremy or Sheila have comitted the murders at WHF?

[Sparkfilms]

For Horseydave,

Her name begins with an R...RL now, was RP.

I saw her over Christmas - she lives quite close to the Boutflours now, who incidently, are planning to move abroad - I believe their farm at Wix is up for sale.

I have to admit, everyone from the area has a theory on things, and R is certainly no exception, she has always maintained, that whatever occured at WHF could have a connection to drugs in some way.

The area was known to me through local football - as I played against Heybridge Swifts, Maldon Town, Salcott and Tollesbury. Oh, and cricket too - there used to be a couple of quick bowlers at Tolleshunt D'arcy - Ken Farnsworth for one. I used to open the batting and he bowled me out first ball of the match once - on my walk back to the pavillion I got stung by a wasp - not the best of days.

Tollesbury and the surrounding area is a lovely part of Essex.

It would be very interesting to take a walk around the area one day.

[mike tesko]

Get a life you lot - You are all guilty of discrediting this site. NO 8mm/9mm bullets found. NO den found, and if you really do think that they all got together and planned the whole thing, read his fathers will.

I imagine that if i asked you all to describe JB you'd all have the idea that he was a "simple farmers son, he worked on the farm, toiled all day, joined in the village fete, attended church, oh what a charming boy" !!!!!!!!

WRONG WRONG WRONG

And IF he hadnt been locked up and he was out today, he wouldnt of given you the time of day - He was "above his station", he thought himself far too important to talk to the likes of us, he was a playboy, he drove around like a nutter, he took drugs, showed no respect for the farm as a working farm, and if, as did happen on more than one occasion when i was there, if it was his turn to check on the heifers, or drive the combine, one of us would always get a late night phonecall saying he was stuck in London (ie too busy partying to give a toss about the farm)

I don't know who you're addressing but I hope it's not me. 

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I have witness statements confirming that an 8mm bullet case was found in an outbuilding at the scene, also that police found a den in a small copse close to where campers were staying at the time of the shootings. Why would the police falsify evidence of this nature?

[horseydave]

Mike , Youre post earlier said "8mm Bullet found in farm outbuilding," !!!

you now say " a bullet case !!!

Quite a difference - and if you care to walk over any farm land, along headlands of any field you will find hundreds of cases, "Are all these startling new evidence"?

As I have said to you on more than one occasion, "what credibility do you expect if you post such chaff"

There is one point you seem to fail to grasp - Any appeal (IF granted,highly unlikely) will only look at evidence the earlier court had in front of it, You can come up with as many far fetched dreams as you want, it will not be looked at, and it annoys me that you feel you want to insult us by writing it.

The appeal court has been asked to look at certain points, they have done, and they have given a clear and precise indication to where and how they are thinking.

Even if someone who flew the plane, dropped the packages and collected the cash from Bury St Edmunds made a statement saying they murdered the family, the court would not listen as this is new evidence and not a concern of the appeal court.

The scratch 'evidence' does not hold up, Shelia going walk a bout doesnt hold up, I admit to holding great hope in the phone logs, but thats simply been dismissed, as the police will not "be seen as" admitting to further mistakes.

If you wish to debate it sensibly, I will with you, but please no more silly theories - lets just contain ourselves to the facts.

[mb1]

Mike , Youre post earlier said "8mm Bullet found in farm outbuilding," !!!

you now say " a bullet case !!!

Quite a difference - and if you care to walk over any farm land, along headlands of any field you will find hundreds of cases, "Are all these startling new evidence"?

As I have said to you on more than one occasion, "what credibility do you expect if you post such chaff"

There is one point you seem to fail to grasp - Any appeal (IF granted,highly unlikely) will only look at evidence the earlier court had in front of it, You can come up with as many far fetched dreams as you want, it will not be looked at, and it annoys me that you feel you want to insult us by writing it.

The appeal court has been asked to look at certain points, they have done, and they have given a clear and precise indication to where and how they are thinking.

Even if someone who flew the plane, dropped the packages and collected the cash from Bury St Edmunds made a statement saying they murdered the family, the court would not listen as this is new evidence and not a concern of the appeal court.

The scratch 'evidence' does not hold up, Shelia going walk a bout doesnt hold up, I admit to holding great hope in the phone logs, but thats simply been dismissed, as the police will not "be seen as" admitting to further mistakes.

If you wish to debate it sensibly, I will with you, but please no more silly theories - lets just contain ourselves to the facts.

If the pilot's statement could be evidenced - the plane, the strip, fuel docket etc etc - then it would force a re-trial... But does JB want that?

[Kaldin]

Mike , Youre post earlier said "8mm Bullet found in farm outbuilding," !!!

you now say " a bullet case !!!

Quite a difference - and if you care to walk over any farm land, along headlands of any field you will find hundreds of cases, "Are all these startling new evidence"?

As I have said to you on more than one occasion, "what credibility do you expect if you post such chaff"

There is one point you seem to fail to grasp - Any appeal (IF granted,highly unlikely) will only look at evidence the earlier court had in front of it, You can come up with as many far fetched dreams as you want, it will not be looked at, and it annoys me that you feel you want to insult us by writing it.

The appeal court has been asked to look at certain points, they have done, and they have given a clear and precise indication to where and how they are thinking.

Even if someone who flew the plane, dropped the packages and collected the cash from Bury St Edmunds made a statement saying they murdered the family, the court would not listen as this is new evidence and not a concern of the appeal court.

The scratch 'evidence' does not hold up, Shelia going walk a bout doesnt hold up, I admit to holding great hope in the phone logs, but thats simply been dismissed, as the police will not "be seen as" admitting to further mistakes.

If you wish to debate it sensibly, I will with you, but please no more silly theories - lets just contain ourselves to the facts.

I don't think that's right is it? The point of an appeal is precisely to consider new evidence - ie, things which were not available to the jury at the original trial.

[ceedeells]

Yes, it's quite possible someone other than his sister did it. But it certainly wasn't Jeremy. I'm certain of that.

But there is no evidence to support a third party being involved.

What are you basing your stance that you are certain JB didn't carry out the murders? I agree that there are a number discrepancies in the case, but nothing which is concrete evidence proving his innocence.

[mike tesko]

Mike , Youre post earlier said "8mm Bullet found in farm outbuilding," !!!

you now say " a bullet case !!!

Quite a difference - and if you care to walk over any farm land, along headlands of any field you will find hundreds of cases, "Are all these startling new evidence"?

As I have said to you on more than one occasion, "what credibility do you expect if you post such chaff"

There is one point you seem to fail to grasp - Any appeal (IF granted,highly unlikely) will only look at evidence the earlier court had in front of it, You can come up with as many far fetched dreams as you want, it will not be looked at, and it annoys me that you feel you want to insult us by writing it.

The appeal court has been asked to look at certain points, they have done, and they have given a clear and precise indication to where and how they are thinking.

Even if someone who flew the plane, dropped the packages and collected the cash from Bury St Edmunds made a statement saying they murdered the family, the court would not listen as this is new evidence and not a concern of the appeal court.

The scratch 'evidence' does not hold up, Shelia going walk a bout doesnt hold up, I admit to holding great hope in the phone logs, but thats simply been dismissed, as the police will not "be seen as" admitting to further mistakes.

If you wish to debate it sensibly, I will with you, but please no more silly theories - lets just contain ourselves to the facts.

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There is simply no need for any of us to insult each other...

If you think for one minute that I can't be as nasty as you appear to be, then my old friend you could be mistaken, but I choose not to be nasty, because I sense a frustration in some of your comments, which I can recognize, as simply being a desire to get to the truth...

Your goal is the same as mine...

We just have a different approach...

You can make all the accusations you like, but when appropriate I will reserve the right to respond by any way I choose...

Bullet, or bullet case, found in an outbuilding, was considered at one stage to be important enough to warrant further investigation...

My question would be, regarding the discovery of this bullet / bullet case, what type of weapon could fire such a bullet, and what size bullet entry wounds would such a bullet be capable of making if it was fired at close quarters, say within a couple of inches from its target, or even in a contact position?

Lets also get some thing clear before we go any further, because I own this site, and because I can if I go any further, that because I own this site I could simply ban you and we would not hear anything further from you unless you register under a different name, and if you did that I would still be able to tell that you had registered any new user name from the same IP address, but I have not decided to ban you, and I would not do so, because everyone is entitled to express their views here on this site, with a view to us all arriving at the inevitable truth...

You may not yet realize it, but your views are important, irrespective of whether or not you are in favor of Jeremy's guilt, or innocence...

So, I invite you to keep posting, you can say what you like, and if I can respond, I will do, if I can't I wont...

[mb1]

Well said.

It would be a shame if Horseydave abandoned the forum completely as he is very good at giving a sense of place and time, and somewhere amongst that may be a key, if not the key.

[mike tesko]

Is it possible that someone other than Jeremy or Sheila could be responsible for the murders that took place at White House Farm? Or is it certain that it can only be either one or the other? I think that there is another person who had motive for the killings, and could have possibly carried them out. I am not going to say that individual's name, obviously, and i am only speculating here. But to me, the person in question is highly suspicious, for a number of reasons.

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Relatively speaking, I think I can guess who you mean...

[Elizabeth]

Relatively speaking, i am sure you have guessed correct, Mike 

Anyway, as Jeremy has said in the letter to you that he does not want people discussing "new theories"/and or speculating without proof (as it may have an affect on the outcome of the CCRC's decision) i will not bring up or discuss this topic again. 

[mike tesko]

Is it possible that someone other than Jeremy or Sheila could be responsible for the murders that took place at White House Farm? Or is it certain that it can only be either one or the other? I think that there is another person who had motive for the killings, and could have possibly carried them out. I am not going to say that individual's name, obviously, and i am only speculating here. But to me, the person in question is highly suspicious, for a number of reasons.

If Neville phoned Jeremy then Sheila did it. If Neville didn't phone Jeremy, then Jeremy did it, or he got someone else to do it. I deduce from that that it must have been either Sheila or Jeremy.

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This is something that I started to look at in 2003, onwards...

I came to the conclusion, that it depended if Jeremy's recollection of what his father said when he called him, was accurate, or slightly, or significantly mis-interpreted?

"Sheila has got the gun"...

"She has got the gun"...

"He has got the gun"...

"Your sister has got the gun"...

Did Jeremy mis-hear what he was being told by Ralph, when Ralph made the call at about 3:25am?

"Sheila's" and , "She has", and "He has", sound phonetically the same...

If Jeremy made a genuine mistake, in this manner, as described, how would this reflect upon the case?

[TheBrilliantMistake]

if there is a posiibility of a third person being responsible, then yeah why not .

Hmmmmm, this is most interesting. So if Jeremy had been killed too, who would profit from that?

If the aim was to get Jeremy to the house and set him up, who would profit from that? Several people I suppose, but to speculate could be libellous.

There is a sticking point in this theory though. If there was a third party and they wanted to get Jeremy over to the house for whatever reason, would they have made Neville say that Sheila had a gun? They couldn't know how Jeremy would react to that - I would think it would have made him too scared to go over on his own, and they couldn't discount the possibility of him calling the police. Would they not have come up with something which would be more likely to get him over there?

There's another issue with this:

From what we now know, there was a real struggle from Neville, and he was already shot at this point but continued to fight. IF he fought so hard with the killer at this point, it's hard to believe he'd be threatened into making a phone call at gunpoint. It doesn't disprove the 3rd party, but heart of hearts... I can't buy into it.

[shonapugs]

If anyone has read my previous posts, they'll realise that I have only a tentative grasp of the tons of evidence out there, but I did join this forum with an open mind. To me, the original phone call is key. If it was Horsey's drug-based assassination, there would have been no phone call. If it was JB working on hiw own, he could have taken all night to stage the scene more carefully as 4 murders and a suicide, and left it all to be found the next morning by a member of staff. Again, no need for a phone call. But there WAS a recorded call to the police. So unless it was a genuine call from Ralph about Sheila, which I now doubt, could it have been a pre-planned, well-timed alibi to get the police to WHF before Jeremy could have been there in person?     In my opinion..............

[curiousessex]

Could Someone other than Jeremy or Sheila have comitted the murders at WHF?

In my opinion and for the following reasons...... NO

Information in Police Telephone logs referencing Sheila with a gun. i.e. (i) Jeremy's telephone call to the Police (ii) Nevill's alledged telephone call to the Police (iii) Nevill's alledged telephone call to Jeremy

The court did not beleive a third party was involved. The Police did not beleive a third party was involved. Jeremy does not beleive a third party was involved. Jeremy has made a number of statements referring to Sheila being the killer. If I am not mistake, there have been details published in the media where Jeremy expresses regrets in not understanding Sheila's illness well enough at the time and not being able to do anything to help her. 

[mike tesko]

Could Someone other than Jeremy or Sheila have comitted the murders at WHF?

In my opinion and for the following reasons...... NO

Information in Police Telephone logs referencing Sheila with a gun. i.e. (i) Jeremy's telephone call to the Police (ii) Nevill's alledged telephone call to the Police (iii) Nevill's alledged telephone call to Jeremy

The court did not beleive a third party was involved. The Police did not beleive a third party was involved. Jeremy does not beleive a third party was involved. Jeremy has made a number of statements referring to Sheila being the killer. If I am not mistake, there have been details published in the media where Jeremy expresses regrets in not understanding Sheila's illness well enough at the time and not being able to do anything to help her.

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Good points...