Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Nigel on March 09, 2018, 01:07:PM
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Trying to get position of The Moon in the Sky 3.15am to 7.30am in relation to North of WHF
Anyone help?
Thanks
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Moon phase: 4.44am
https://www.mooncalc.org/#/51.7704,0.7936,13/2018.03.11/05:43/1/0
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go to 3min 30 sec
https://youtu.be/yPRd912xv9M
"Trick Of The Light"
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North / South....scroll right for Compass.
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Could the location of the Moon have caused a refection on Window 'Upper right' back of Farm House? aka "Trick of The Light'.
On plan above this is bottom left room 'Box Room'.
If if could not then there was movement in Farm House at approximately 4.44am
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Is there a budding Sir Patrick Moore out there?
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Exact location White House farm arrowed:
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Could the location of the Moon have caused a refection on Window 'Upper right' back of Farm House? aka "Trick of The Light'.
On plan above this is bottom left room 'Parent's Bedroom'.
If if could not then there was movement in Farm House at approximately 4.44am
The sighting of the figure standing, and then moving about at the window occurred at approximately 4.00am - 4.02am...
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go to 3min 30 sec
https://youtu.be/yPRd912xv9M
"Trick Of The Light"
Bews refers to the first floor window top right as they were looking at the window, which was Sheila Caffell's bedroom, whereas Jeremy told me the figure he saw, and which he thought PC Myall and PS Bews were looking at was the figure at and in his parents bedroom window, which would have been top left of the building as viewed by Bews, Myall, and Jeremy!
This is very interesting since it implies or suggests that someone moved from behind the window in Sheila Caffell's bedroom, to the window of the parents bedroom, at a time when Jeremy was outside with the police! Only the upstairs landing separates Sheila's bedroom from the parents bedroom! It is also interesting that blood from one or more of the victims was found on the landing carpet outside Sheila's bedroom!
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Bews refers to the first floor window top right as they were looking at the window, which was Sheila Caffell's bedroom, whereas Jeremy told me the figure he saw, and which he thought PC Myall and PS Bews were looking at was the figure at and in his parents bedroom window, which would have been top left of the building as viewed by Bews, Myall, and Jeremy!
This is very interesting since it implies or suggests that someone moved from behind the window in Sheila Caffell's bedroom, to the window of the parents bedroom, at a time when Jeremy was outside with the police! Only the upstairs landing separates Sheila's bedroom from the parents bedroom! It is also interesting that blood from one or more of the victims was found on the landing carpet outside Sheila's bedroom!
What also becomes clear, is that it was PC Myall who first drew attention to movement at one of the first floor windows, but that PC Myall himself has never drawn attention to what he thought he had seen, or indeed, which first floor window he had seen the original movement! We only have Bews account, and he conveniently shifts the incident to Sheila Caffell's bedroom window, whilst Jeremy is observing the figure at his parents bedroom window, standing there at first to the right hand edge, and then walking across the full opening of his parents bedroom window (from right to left as viewed by him) as though whoever it was had gone around his parents bed towards the door which led into the box room window, where much later on, WPC Jeapes' spotted the rifle leaning there!
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What also becomes clear, is that it was PC Myall who first drew attention to movement at one of the first floor windows, but that PC Myall himself has never drawn attention to what he thought he had seen, or indeed, which first floor window he had seen the original movement! We only have Bews account, and he conveniently shifts the incident to Sheila Caffell's bedroom window, whilst Jeremy is observing the figure at his parents bedroom window, standing there at first to the right hand edge, and then walking across the full opening of his parents bedroom window (from right to left as viewed by him) as though whoever it was had gone around his parents bed towards the door which led into the box room window, where much later on, WPC Jeapes' spotted the rifle leaning there!
For all anybody knows, a trick of light could have given an impression that there was movement at Sheila Caffell's bedroom window (that night), but there is no evidence that what PC Myall and Jeremy saw (movement of a figure) was movement at Sheila Caffell's bedroom window! Jeremy is adamant that the figure they were observing was the person at his parents bedroom window, he thought that the other two officers were observing the same figure at the same window, when we now discover, as I say, that Bews displaces the 'trick of light' explanation against the wrong first floor window!
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The sighting of the figure standing, and then moving about at the window occurred at approximately 4.00am - 4.02am...
04.01am exact location
https://www.mooncalc.org/#/51.8564,0.7885,15/1985.08.07/04:01/1/2
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Bews refers to the first floor window top right as they were looking at the window, which was Sheila Caffell's bedroom, whereas Jeremy told me the figure he saw, and which he thought PC Myall and PS Bews were looking at was the figure at and in his parents bedroom window, which would have been top left of the building as viewed by Bews, Myall, and Jeremy!
This is very interesting since it implies or suggests that someone moved from behind the window in Sheila Caffell's bedroom, to the window of the parents bedroom, at a time when Jeremy was outside with the police! Only the upstairs landing separates Sheila's bedroom from the parents bedroom! It is also interesting that blood from one or more of the victims was found on the landing carpet outside Sheila's bedroom!
Assuming top right is correct, then it would tally with floor plan, see above left hand side.
He did say "back of house" in video ie not Front.
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It's really astonishing that after all this time, I never understood why PS Bews was saying what he was saying about the 'trick of light' at one of the first floor windows, when Jeremy's version of what they saw was so clear and precise, but now thanks to Nigel's prompting, I know exactly what has happened now - Bews was talking about a 'trick of light' at the wrong first floor window (Sheila Caffell's bedroom window, top right as viewed by himself), whereas Jeremy (and perhaps PC Myall) were looking and observing the movement of the figure at the first floor window (the parents bedroom)...
Nobody picked up on this at trial, or since...
Until now!
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ie behind red rectangle
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In which case I don't see how it could be a "Trick Of The Light" or The Moon's refection on the window pane, as The Moon was on other side of house....see diag PP1.
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Assuming top right is correct, then it would tally with floor plan, see above left hand side.
He did say "back of house" in video ie not Front.
Yeah, Nigel, I'm with you..
And, look here can you see the shadows and reflections of the branches and twigs and leafs on that part of the farmhouse where Sheila Caffell's first floor bedroom is situated? Well, the moon (in whatever phase it was in that night) would probably be casting silhouettes of those / these branches, twigs and leaves upon the outside of Sheila Caffell's bedroom window, in keeping with what Bews says in the footage! Well, there were no such branches, twigs or leaves from trees to cast shadows upon or against the parents bedroom window (no possibility of a trick of light occurring) over on that side of the farmhouse (top left)!
This is a somewhat sensational piece of new evidence since during the trial Bews told the jury about the 'trick of light' on the first floor window (top right), which everyone wrongly assumed was a reference to the figure seen at the parents bedroom window (top left), thereby negating any impact that Jeremy Bambers defence had in trying to convince the jury that there was still somebody very much alive when Bews, Myall and Jeremy himself did a recovery of the farmhouse!
Here is the recce' image proving the points I am making!
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Assuming top right is correct, then it would tally with floor plan, see above left hand side.
He did say "back of house" in video ie not Front.
No, no, no...
Bews has confused himself, the sighting of the silhouetted figure at the first floor parents bedroom window was on that side of the farmhouse, where what we now know to be the front door, with Sheila Caffell's bedroom window top right, and the parents first floor bedroom window, top left!
I think Bews is confused by the fact that initially he, Myall and Jeremy had approached the courtyard side of the farmhouse where the back door is situated, and as it turns out was the door almost everyone used to go to and fro, from the house! Bews treats that side of the farmhouse as the front, and the front side as the back of the house! This can be proven by the fact that on the court yard side of the farmhouse, there isn't a first floor window top right, it's bricked in - the furthest window to the right is the 'box room' window, and Jeremy was and is very specific, he says there was a person standing at one side of his parents bedroom window, which stood there for around a couple of minutes, before dashing from right to left and out of sight which was the signal for what Jeremy believed caused Bews and them to hurry back to the patrol car so that Bews could pass a situation report, requesting the firearms team be delivered!other!
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Yeah, Nigel, I'm with you..
And, look here can you see the shadows and reflections of the branches and twigs and leafs on that part of the farmhouse where Sheila Caffell's first floor bedroom is situated? Well, the moon (in whatever phase it was in that night) would probably be casting silhouettes of those / these branches, twigs and leaves upon the outside of Sheila Caffell's bedroom window, in keeping with what Bews says in the footage! Well, there were no such branches, twigs or leaves from trees to cast shadows upon or against the parents bedroom window (no possibility of a trick of light occurring) over on that side of the farmhouse (top left)!
This is a somewhat sensational piece of new evidence since during the trial Bews told the jury about the 'trick of light' on the first floor window (top right), which everyone wrongly assumed was a reference to the figure seen at the parents bedroom window (top left), thereby negating any impact that Jeremy Bambers defence had in trying to convince the jury that there was still somebody very much alive when Bews, Myall and Jeremy himself did a recovery of the farmhouse!
Here is the recce' image proving the points I am making!
In the video P1, former Sgt. Bews was referring to the 'Box Room' right end window. see P1
As I say, Moon was other side of house, see P1 it could not have been "Trick of The Light" or reflection of moon on Window pane.
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In the video P1, former Sgt. Bews was referring to the 'Parents Bedroom' right end window. see P1
The room Sheila died in.
Fact.
As I say, Moon was other side of house, see P1 it could not have been "Trick of The Light" or reflection of moon on Window pane.
Nigel, you have just proved to everybody, including myself, the mistake the jury made regarding this very significant evidence regarding the purported sighting of a living person inside whf at a time when Jeremy was outside in the company of the police! One other thing which needs addressing here, is that Bews, nor Myall, ever set foot inside the farmhouse, so would not have known which bedroom window, was Sheila Caffell's bedroom window, or the parents bedroom window!
You are absolutely spot on though, that the moon was on the other side of the farmhouse (not the court yard side) and therefore could not have played a 'trick of light' on any window on that side of the farmhouse!
Please rest assured that I am very pleased you raised this matter, because it can now be shown how the jury were misled and confused by what Bews referred to as a 'trick of light' - trust me, Bews, Myall and Jeremy were on the other side of the house when Bews referred to movement at the first floor top right hand side window (Sheila Caffell's bedroom window), he didn't know who's bedroom window that was, and that's where he's made a humongous mistake! This constitutes fresh evidence (the video footage of Bews account) which was not available at the time of the 1986 trial, or the 2002 appeal!
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Nigel, you have just proved to everybody, including myself, the mistake the jury made regarding this very significant evidence regarding the purported sighting of a living person inside whf at a time when Jeremy was outside in the company of the police! One other thing which needs addressing here, is that Bews, nor Myall, ever set foot inside the farmhouse, so would not have known which bedroom window, was Sheila Caffell's bedroom window, or the parents bedroom window!
I got a shiver up my spine reading that.
I hope and pray you are right.
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I got a shiver up my spine reading that.
I hope and pray you are right.
It's quite astonishing that it's taken all of this time for this matter to be cleared up (thanks to your probing)!
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It didn't help matters during the trial, when it was Jeremy's own counsel, Rivlin QC, who suggested to PS Bews who was testifying, that what he and the others had seen, had been 'a trick of light'!
As it turns out, what Bews was referring to, was in all probability a 'trick of light', but he was looking at a different first floor window, he was referring to the bedroom window belonging to Sheila Caffell (top right), but Jeremy was adamant that what he was looking at was a person at his parents bedroom window (top left)! Jeremy was always if the impression that Bews and Myall saw what he saw, and that they were looking at what he was looking at (top left), but at this late stage, it now turns out that Bews saw something else, Bews was looking at something else than to what Jeremy had seen and was looking at! I agree, that with the moon on that side of the farmhouse, that the branches, twigs and leaves might have cast shadows or caused a 'trick of light' upon or against the bedroom window top right from that part of the farmhouse (Sheila's bedroom), until now I could never understand why Bews was saying that / this, and to be honest I think Jeremy also was confused by what Bews has said, but all that's water under the bridge now!
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It didn't help matters during the trial, when it was Jeremy's own counsel, Rivlin QC, who suggested to PS Bews who was testifying, that what he and the others had seen, had been 'a trick of light'!
As it turns out, what Bews was referring to, was in all probability a 'trick of light', but he was looking at a different first floor window, he was referring to the bedroom window belonging to Sheila Caffell (top right), but Jeremy was adamant that what he was looking at was a person at his parents bedroom window (top left)! Jeremy was always if the impression that Bews and Myall saw what he saw, and that they were looking at what he was looking at (top left), but at this late stage, it now turns out that Bews saw something else, Bews was looking at something else than to what Jeremy had seen and was looking at! I agree, that with the moon on that side of the farmhouse, that the branches, twigs and leaves might have cast shadows or caused a 'trick of light' upon or against the bedroom window top right from that part of the farmhouse (Sheila's bedroom), until now I could never understand why Bews was saying that / this, and to be honest I think Jeremy also was confused by what Bews has said, but all that's water under the bridge now!
In addition to the video footage containing this fresh evidence, I should think that Bambers official campaign team, will now target PC Myall for his version of the events!
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At this juncture...
I am mindful of the sighting of an 'unidentified male' made by PC Myall at whf at around 3.45am, as per the very first entry in a police document entitled 'MAJOR INCIDENT PROJECT REGISTER'...
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At this juncture...
I am mindful of the sighting of an 'unidentified male' made by PC Myall at whf at around 3.45am, as per the very first entry in a police document entitled 'MAJOR INCIDENT PROJECT REGISTER'...
It has always troubled me, why only PC Myall refers to having seen this 'unidentified male' at whf so early in the investigation, despite him arriving at whf along with, and in the company of PS Bews, and PS Saxby?
But..
Maybe, Myalls reference to 'that' unidentified male (3.45am) was a reference to the person he had seen at the parents bedroom window (top left),and maybe this is why his evidence has been suppressed for over three decades, did pC Myall identify an unidentified male at the parents bedroom window?
That now must become the focus...
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All the enquiries put into trying to identify this unidentified male, must surely now be disclosed in the interests of justice!
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All the enquiries put into trying to identify this unidentified male, must surely now be disclosed in the interests of justice!
Since..
If the unidentified male to whom PC Myall was / is referring was the person at the parents bedroom window (top left) then, Bambers convictions would have to be quashed, because who else could that male person have been?
Neville Bamber, no less..
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Remember too that a print of an unidentified " male " had also been found on the rifle ?
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Remember too that a print of an unidentified " male " had also been found on the rifle ?
That's interesting...
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Then, there's the hitman scenario?
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As well as, the 'scruffy looking hunched man seen walking away from the farmhouse about an hour after police first arrived at the scene' (obviously, not Jeremy)?
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It has always troubled me, why only PC Myall refers to having seen this 'unidentified male' at whf so early in the investigation, despite him arriving at whf along with, and in the company of PS Bews, and PS Saxby?
But..
Maybe, Myalls reference to 'that' unidentified male (3.45am) was a reference to the person he had seen at the parents bedroom window (top left),and maybe this is why his evidence has been suppressed for over three decades, did pC Myall identify an unidentified male at the parents bedroom window?
That now must become the focus...
Well he must have been pretty smart to between 3.45am and 4.01 am Enter Farm house go into "Parents Room" shoot Sheila and then Exit Farm house.
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Then, there's the hitman scenario?
Mike I doubt if a hitman would use a .22 vermin rifle. More an AK-47 for 5 people,so I think we can rule that out somehow.
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Interestingly,hitmen aren't necessarily used in obtaining heaps of money as was the first thought in this case.
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I think the mention of the 'unidentified male' seen at whf at 0345am by PC Myall (Entry no.001 in The Major Incident Project Register), could easily have been reference to Neville Bamber at the parents bedroom window, as seen by the two policemen and Jeremy during their recce' of the farmhouse. Now, if that be true it has staggering consequences...
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I think the mention of the 'unidentified male' seen at whf at 0345am by PC Myall (Entry no.001 in The Major Incident Project Register), could easily have been reference to Neville Bamber at the parents bedroom window, as seen by the two policemen and Jeremy during their recce' of the farmhouse. Now, if that be true it has staggering consequences...
Some of these consequences, more obvious than others, and some astounding and astonishing in their meaning and purpose!
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Mike, get in the Zone.
You can do much much better digging....
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Some of these consequences, more obvious than others, and some astounding and astonishing in their meaning and purpose!
Here are just some of those consequences, but anyone can feel free to add others as they spring to mind:-
(01) - Neville Bamber did make a distress call to Jeremy Bamber
(02) - Neville Bamber then contacted the police at 3.26am, as per Malcolm Bonnetts 03.26am phone message log
(03) - Jeremy Bamber did try and contact Witham police station but got no response
(04) - Jeremy Bamber phoned Julie Mugford at 03.30am
(05) - Jeremy Bamber phoned the police and spoke to PC West, as per the contents of PC Wests 03.36am police message log form
(06) - Police (the occupants of CA07) Bews, Myall and Saxby were deployed to the incident (03.35am) at whf acting on information imparted to police by Neville Bamber at or during his 03.26am call to the police, and adequately explains why police were sent to the incident before Jeremy himself called police at 03.36am...
(07) - Occupants of CA07 arrived at the scene officially at 03.48hrs
(08) - Jeremy Bamber arrived at the scene 4 minutes later at 03.52hrs
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Here are just some of those consequences, but anyone can feel free to add others as they spring to mind:-
(01) - Neville Bamber did make a distress call to Jeremy Bamber
(02) - Neville Bamber then contacted the police at 3.26am, as per Malcolm Bonnetts 03.26am phone message log
(03) - Jeremy Bamber did try and contact Witham police station but got no response
(04) - Jeremy Bamber phoned Julie Mugford at 03.30am
(05) - Jeremy Bamber phoned the police and spoke to PC West, as per the contents of PC Wests 03.36am police message log form
(06) - Police (the occupants of CA07) Bews, Myall and Saxby were deployed to the incident (03.35am) at whf acting on information imparted to police by Neville Bamber at or during his 03.26am call to the police, and adequately explains why police were sent to the incident before Jeremy himself called police at 03.36am...
(07) - Occupants of CA07 arrived at the scene officially at 03.48hrs
(08) - Jeremy Bamber arrived at the scene 4 minutes later at 03.52hrs
Yes, agreed.
Will you please get into the Zone.
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The video Clip mentioned, where Bews identifies the wrong first floor window at which the figure was seen, by himself, PC Myall and Jeremy Bamber, constitutes fresh evidence which was not available at the time of the original 1986 trial, or the 2002 appeal (https://youtu.be/yPRd912xv9M) evidence which is capable of seriously undermining the prosecutions case at trial, or since...
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The video Clip mentioned, where Bews identifies the wrong first floor window at which the figure was seen, by himself, PC Myall and Jeremy Bamber, constitutes fresh evidence which was not available at the time of the original 1986 trial, or the 2002 appeal (https://youtu.be/yPRd912xv9M) evidence which is capable of seriously undermining the prosecutions case at trial, or since...
BOOM!
Thank you Mike, hope we meet one day.
God Bless you.
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The moon was in a part of the sky to the top right window that Bews is claiming was the window at which movement of a person had been seen, or made! I know Bews doesn't mention this either in his trial testimony, or in the video footage we are now focusing on, but I am going on what Jeremy told me at the time we were very close trying to get these convictions of his overturned! We used to spend hours, days, weeks, months and years going through everything!
I particular remember me asking Jeremy about this 'trick of light' business that Bews introduced with the aid of Mr Rivlin, to deal with the sighting of the silhouetted figure at the parents bedroom window! Jeremy was saying that there was nothing reflecting on the window of his parents bedroom, he told me that the moon was way out and up from the position of his sisters first floor bedroom window, and that there was no way that could have caused any 'trick of light' or reflection upon the outside glass surface of his parents bedroom window! More importantly, Jeremy told me that his parents bedroom appeared to be back lit, probably from a light outside the bedroom door on the landing, as if someone had left the door ajar...
I knew Jeremy was telling me the truth, because he said the figure that he had seen standing to the right hand edge of his parents bedroom window, was silhouetted and that from his vantage point he couldn't quite make out who that person was? When I queried him regarding how long that person was standing there at the right hand edge of that window (as viewed from Jeremy's vantage point), Jeremy told me it was a matter of minutes, 2 - 3 minutes, and then suddenly the person darted across the full opening of his parents bedroom window and out of sight to Jeremys left (inside the bedroom)!
This appeared to act as a trigger for Bews, Jeremy and Myall to race back to Pages Lane where PS Saxby was manning the patrol car (CA07) and PS Bews passed a situation report, requesting that the firearms team be deployed to the incident!!
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The moon was in a part of the sky to the top right window that Bews is claiming was the window at which movement of a person had been seen, or made! I know Bews doesn't mention this either in his trial testimony, or in the video footage we are now focusing on, but I am going on what Jeremy told me at the time we were very close trying to get these convictions of his overturned! We used to spend hours, days, weeks, months and years going through everything!
I particular remember me asking Jeremy about this 'trick of light' business that Bews introduced with the aid of Mr Rivlin, to deal with the sighting of the silhouetted figure at the parents bedroom window! Jeremy was saying that there was nothing reflecting on the window of his parents bedroom, he told me that the moon was way out and up from the position of his sisters first floor bedroom window, and that there was no way that could have caused any 'trick of light' or reflection upon the outside glass surface of his parents bedroom window! More importantly, Jeremy told me that his parents bedroom appeared to be back lit, probably from a light outside the bedroom door on the landing, as if someone had left the door ajar...
I knew Jeremy was telling me the truth, because he said the figure that he had seen standing to the right hand edge of his parents bedroom window, was silhouetted and that from his vantage point he couldn't quite make out who that person was? When I queried him regarding how long that person was standing there at the right hand edge of that window (as viewed from Jeremy's vantage point), Jeremy told me it was a matter of minutes, 2 - 3 minutes, and then suddenly the person darted across the full opening of his parents bedroom window and out of sight to Jeremys left (inside the bedroom)!
This appeared to act as a trigger for Bews, Jeremy and Myall to race back to Pages Lane where PS Saxby was manning the patrol car (CA07) and PS Bews passed a situation report, requesting that the firearms team be deployed to the incident!!
"The moon was in a part of the sky to the top right window"
NOT true The Moon, it was other side of house.....Lower than Window, but experts need to look at this....
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The moon was in a part of the sky to the top right window that Bews is claiming was the window at which movement of a person had been seen, or made! I know Bews doesn't mention this either in his trial testimony, or in the video footage we are now focusing on, but I am going on what Jeremy told me at the time we were very close trying to get these convictions of his overturned! We used to spend hours, days, weeks, months and years going through everything!
I particular remember me asking Jeremy about this 'trick of light' business that Bews introduced with the aid of Mr Rivlin, to deal with the sighting of the silhouetted figure at the parents bedroom window! Jeremy was saying that there was nothing reflecting on the window of his parents bedroom, he told me that the moon was way out and up from the position of his sisters first floor bedroom window, and that there was no way that could have caused any 'trick of light' or reflection upon the outside glass surface of his parents bedroom window! More importantly, Jeremy told me that his parents bedroom appeared to be back lit, probably from a light outside the bedroom door on the landing, as if someone had left the door ajar...
I knew Jeremy was telling me the truth, because he said the figure that he had seen standing to the right hand edge of his parents bedroom window, was silhouetted and that from his vantage point he couldn't quite make out who that person was? When I queried him regarding how long that person was standing there at the right hand edge of that window (as viewed from Jeremy's vantage point), Jeremy told me it was a matter of minutes, 2 - 3 minutes, and then suddenly the person darted across the full opening of his parents bedroom window and out of sight to Jeremys left (inside the bedroom)!
This appeared to act as a trigger for Bews, Jeremy and Myall to race back to Pages Lane where PS Saxby was manning the patrol car (CA07) and PS Bews passed a situation report, requesting that the firearms team be deployed to the incident!!
How utterly astonishingly that neither PS Bews, nor PC Myall, have ever made a witness statement regarding this all important sighting of the person inside the parents bedroom window, at a time when Jeremy was outside in their company? At least, no such witness statements have ever been disclosed to those representing Jeremy Bambers interests (legally)!
Indeed..
No disclosure in any event of the situation report that PS Bews passed immediately after the sighting of that person, which caused Bews to request firearms team back up...
No witness statement from the person who received that situation report from the scene at such a crucial stage in the proceedings!
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"The moon was in a part of the sky to the top right window"
NOT true The Moon, it was other side of house.....Lower than Window, but experts need to look at this....
Jeremy told me he could see the moon in the sky at whatever altitude he was referring to, to the right hand side of the front part of the farmhouse, which caused moonlight to filter through some branches, and twigs to the right hand edge of the farmhouse shown here:-
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For clarity:
go to 3min 30 sec
https://youtu.be/yPRd912xv9M
"Trick Of The Light"
Former Sgt Chris Bews must have been referring to the ''Box Room" window.
See blue arrows
The window is a few feet from where Sheila's body was found.
As previously noted The Moon was on the other side of the house, see Moon location 04.01am below.
Due to its location the light could not have reflected off the Box Room's window and is far away from line of sight (far right from window and importantly behind house).
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Moon is yellow circle at 04.01am on Wednesday 07 August 1985
Please note the North / South Axis in relation to North / South Axis of Second image above (floor plan).
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Jeremy told me he could see the moon in the sky at whatever altitude he was referring to, to the right hand side of the front part of the farmhouse, which caused moonlight to filter through some branches, and twigs to the right hand edge of the farmhouse shown here:-
The Moon light would have entered window "Parent's Bedroom" highlighted and filtered into adjoining "Box Room" where Sheila was seen.
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Importantly please note at 3min 30 secs https://youtu.be/yPRd912xv9M former Sgt Chris Bews moves his hand left to right. In a Clockwise fashion.
He was speaking in relation to the FRONT of the house, picture above.
'Trick of The Light" could not have been "replicated" due to location of The Moon.
Also he says: "Weather is good " "Clear Summer night" so clouds would not effect Moons rays.
2mins 45sec
Therefore there must have been movement in the house.
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It's really astonishing that after all this time, I never understood why PS Bews was saying what he was saying about the 'trick of light' at one of the first floor windows, when Jeremy's version of what they saw was so clear and precise, but now thanks to Nigel's prompting, I know exactly what has happened now - Bews was talking about a 'trick of light' at the wrong first floor window (Sheila Caffell's bedroom window, top right as viewed by himself), whereas Jeremy (and perhaps PC Myall) were looking and observing the movement of the figure at the first floor window (the parents bedroom)...
Nobody picked up on this at trial, or since...
Until now!
Please note this is "Box Room". NOT "Parent's Bedroom".
AT LEFT HAND SIDE OF HOUSE....CLOCKWISE.
Mike, For the sake of clarity, please amend your post.
Thank you.
Nigel
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Very interested in Julia Jeapes statement of 'Box Room'.
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I typed here (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2770.msg92363.html#msg92363) what Ps Bews said in the Guardian Films interview. There's nothing to suggest the "trick of the light" was due to a direct reflection of the moon. In any case, the moon moves very slowly, so its direct reflection wouldn't account for apparent movement. That leaves the possibility that the moon could have made some clouds visible (there are usually some clouds around even when the sky is mostly clear). I don't think cloud movement is a very plausible explanation, but it's hard to show that it's completely implausible. The clouds wouldn't need to be directly between the moon and the farmhouse, just sufficiently illuminated for.their reflection in a window to be seen.
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I typed here (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2770.msg92363.html#msg92363) what Ps Bews said in the Guardian Films interview. There's nothing to suggest the "trick of the light" was due to a direct reflection of the moon. In any case, the moon moves very slowly, so its direct reflection wouldn't account for apparent movement. That leaves the possibility that the moon could have made some clouds visible (there are usually some clouds around even when the sky is mostly clear). I don't think cloud movement is a very plausible explanation, but it's hard to show that it's completely implausible. The clouds wouldn't need to be directly between the moon and the farmhouse, just sufficiently illuminated for.their reflection in a window to be seen.
Thanks
Julia Jeapes and Box Room.
I understand there are two Box rooms. One centre upstairs front of house.
It is the Box Room adjoining Parents Room and Twins room, I am referring to.
Thanks again
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Bews even goes so far as to say, the first floor window at the centre of this controversy didn't have any light coming from it? But, the main bedroom was back lit, and so 'that' window did!
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Mike,
Please can you confirm this was the photograph shown to Jury with regarding to movement in house?
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NOT this one, the 'Red brick side':
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Importantly please note at 3min 30 secs https://youtu.be/yPRd912xv9M former Sgt Chris Bews moves his hand left to right. In a Clockwise fashion.
He was speaking in relation to the FRONT of the house, picture above.
'Trick of The Light" could not have been "replicated" due to location of The Moon.
Also he says: "Weather is good " "Clear Summer night" so clouds would not effect Moons rays.
2mins 45sec
Therefore there must have been movement in the house.
During my in-depth discussions with Jeremy regarding what he thought they were all observing (figure at his parents bedroom window), Jeremy told me on many many occasions that all three of them clearly saw the outline of someone (in silhouetted fashion) stood at one side of his parents bedroom window, as though whoever it was, was looking out from 'that' window, for whatever reason! One of the questions I raised with Jeremy, was whether he and or the police believed that this person had seen them at this time?
Jeremy told me, ' I don't think so'...
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During my in-depth discussions with Jeremy regarding what he thought they were all observing (figure at his parents bedroom window), Jeremy told me on many many occasions that all three of them clearly saw the outline of someone (in silhouetted fashion) stood at one side of his parents bedroom window, as though whoever it was, was looking out from 'that' window, for whatever reason! One of the questions I raised with Jeremy, was whether he and or the police believed that this person had seen them at this time?
Jeremy told me, ' don't think so'...
Sheila saw them, as she looked out of "Box Room" Window into Court yard at 04.01am
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Mike,
Please can you confirm this was the photograph shown to Jury with regarding to movement in house?
No, this was not shown to the jury when Bews testified - as far as I know no photographs were shown to the jury when he was testifying!
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Sheila saw them, as she looked out of "Box Room" Window into Court yard at 04.01am
Jeremy told me in confident terms that the person they saw was at the front of the farmhouse at his parents first floor window (top left)! He told me that they were behind a hedge at one stage, but that they entered the garden at the front of the farmhouse, and that they all crouched down behind some raised flower beds situated in the front garden, when they saw the figure at his parents bedroom window!
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Importantly please note at 3min 30 secs https://youtu.be/yPRd912xv9M former Sgt Chris Bews moves his hand left to right. In a Clockwise fashion.
He was speaking in relation to the FRONT of the house, picture above.
'Trick of The Light" could not have been "replicated" due to location of The Moon.
Also he says: "Weather is good " "Clear Summer night" so clouds would not effect Moons rays.
2mins 45sec
Therefore there must have been movement in the house.
Yes, I believe Jeremy is telling the truth about seeing a living moving person at his parents bedroom window, and I believe that the two police officers also saw that person at the parents bedroom window, and that the use of Bews hand in the video clip, is because he saw the figure at the top left hand first floor window at the front of the farmhouse, but he deliberately made out a false case suggesting that what collectively he, Myall and Jeremy had seen occurred at the top right window (Sheila Caffell's bedroom window)!
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Yes, I believe Jeremy is telling the truth about seeing a living moving person at his parents bedroom window, and I believe that the two police officers also saw that person at the parents bedroom window, and that the use of Bews hand in the video clip, is because he saw the figure at the top left hand first floor window at the front of the farmhouse, but he deliberately made out a false case suggesting that what collectively he, Myall and Jeremy had seen occurred at the top right window (Sheila Caffell's bedroom window)!
"Sheila Caffell's bedroom window"
Which in reality was the Box Room window (court yard/red brick side)
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Yes, I believe Jeremy is telling the truth about seeing a living moving person at his parents bedroom window, and I believe that the two police officers also saw that person at the parents bedroom window, and that the use of Bews hand in the video clip, is because he saw the figure at the top left hand first floor window at the front of the farmhouse, but he deliberately made out a false case suggesting that what collectively he, Myall and Jeremy had seen occurred at the top right window (Sheila Caffell's bedroom window)!
Once the person moved across the full opening of the parents bedroom window, from right to left (as viewed by Bews, Myall and Jeremys vantage point), they darted out of the grounds and rushed back to the police patrol car parked up in Pages Lane manned by PS Saxby, and PS Bews passed a situation report to the control room regarding what they had just been observing! He requested that the firearms team should be deployed to the incident!
The contents of this situation report have been deliberately withheld for over 32 years!
The reason for withholding this must be obvious..
What Bews, Myall and Jeremy saw at his parents bedroom window, was a living person who paused to one side of that window, but then who had walked swiftly across the full opening of the parents bedroom window from right to left in a hurried fashion in the general direction of the doorway connecting the main bedroom door to the box room window!
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"Sheila Caffell's bedroom window"
Which in reality was the Box Room window (court yard/red brick side)
Sheila's bedroom window, is the one top right in the following image, the parents bedroom window is the window, top left in the same image:-
Please note, that the window illustrated in the parents bedroom on the red brick part of the farmhouse, is bricked up, and was bricked in at the time of the incident!
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Sheila's bedroom marked Green arrow.
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Nigel, you have just proved to everybody, including myself, the mistake the jury made regarding this very significant evidence regarding the purported sighting of a living person inside whf at a time when Jeremy was outside in the company of the police! One other thing which needs addressing here, is that Bews, nor Myall, ever set foot inside the farmhouse, so would not have known which bedroom window, was Sheila Caffell's bedroom window, or the parents bedroom window!
You are absolutely spot on though, that the moon was on the other side of the farmhouse (not the court yard side) and therefore could not have played a 'trick of light' on any window on that side of the farmhouse!
Please rest assured that I am very pleased you raised this matter, because it can now be shown how the jury were misled and confused by what Bews referred to as a 'trick of light' - trust me, Bews, Myall and Jeremy were on the other side of the house when Bews referred to movement at the first floor top right hand side window (Sheila Caffell's bedroom window), he didn't know who's bedroom window that was, and that's where he's made a humongous mistake! This constitutes fresh evidence (the video footage of Bews account) which was not available at the time of the 1986 trial, or the 2002 appeal!
How?...
A photograph?
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How?
The jury were deceived because the 'trick of light' alluded to by Bews during his testimony, involved a separate first floor window to that which the silhouetted figure was seen (at Parents bedroom window) by himself, Myalls and Jeremy Bamber. The 'trick of light' explanation may well have applied to Sheila Caffell's bedroom window (top right), but could not be entertained with regard to the parents bedroom window (top left). This 'trick of light' being caused by moonlight shining through branches of a nearby tree casting shadows against Sheila Caffell's bedroom window, apparent movement there caused by the shift in position of an observer in different positions around the perimeter of the farmhouse!
No such 'trick of light' could occur against the parents bedroom window because there were no nearby trees to create the same illusion!
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How?...
A photograph?
The jury were decieved by Bews agreeing that what at first might have appeared to have been the sighting of a living person moving around at a first floor window, turned out to be a trick of light which could only be observed at one of the three first floor windows on that side (front) of the farmhouse, giving a false impression that the window he was referring to, was the actual window where movement of the person had been observed! The 'trick of light' explanation was not applicable to the parents bedroom window, or the top landing window on that side of the farmhouse, only in relation to Sheila Caffell's bedroom window (top right)!
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The jury were decieved by Bews agreeing that what at first might have appeared to have been the sighting of a living person moving around at a first floor window, turned out to be a trick of light which could only be observed at one of the three first floor windows on that side (front) of the farmhouse, giving a false impression that the window he was referring to, was the actual window where movement of the person had been observed! The 'trick of light' explanation was not applicable to the parents bedroom window, or the top landing window on that side of the farmhouse, only in relation to Sheila Caffell's bedroom window (top right)!
Mike,
I am confused on your reply, plain English please.
"The jury were decieved"
Why?
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Mike,
I am confused on your reply, plain English please.
"The jury were decieved"
Why?
The jury were deceived into accepting that the sighting of the silhouetted person seen at the bedroom window was explained as nothing but a 'trick of light', when the sighting of 'that' person at the parents bedroom window was not explained at all! In fact, based on Bews response to a sighting or movement at a first floor window as being nothing but a 'trick of light', the jury did not hear about the actual sighting of the person at the parents bedroom window!
Based on what Bews is saying in the latest video footage, his explaining about the 'trick of light' had got nothing ]to do with the person who was seen at the parents bedroom window (top left), but rather when he testified during the 1986 trial, his reference to a 'trick of light' related to Sheila's bedroom window (top right)
The truth relating to the sighting of the person at the parents bedroom window, therefore, which should have been the focal point of Jeremy Bambers defence, was never brought to the attention of the jury at all!
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That person, was almost certainly Neville Bamber, which if true would have portrayed Jeremy in innocence, it would have served to establish in the minds of the jury that Neville Bamber had made that telephone call to Jeremy alerting him to the fact that Sheila has got the gun, or she has got one of the guns, and that Sheila or she was going crazy! It would also follow, that Neville Bamber had called the police himself at 3.26am, in accordance with the contents of Malcolm Bonnets 3.26am phone log contents (if for example, the male person seen at the parents bedroom window had been and was none other than Neville Bamber himself)! A great deal may rely on the lines of enquiry undertaken by Essex police which they must have carried out to try and identify the 'unidentified male' seen at whf by PC Myall at 03.45hrs! If documentation exists which confirms that this first entry in the 'Major Incident Project Register's relates to PC Myalls account of the person at the main bedroom window, it would go along way towards getting Jeremy free, because in these circumstances PC Myall would be confirming that at least one of the victims was still alive inside the farmhouse at a time when Jeremy was outside in the grounds of the farm with two police officers (one of whom has deliberately sought to deceive the court and the general public at large, by claiming there was a simple explanation for what was thought to have been movement at a first floor window ('a trick of light'), by assigning that window as being Sheila Caffell's bedroom window, and not the parents bedroom window!
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The jury were deceived into accepting that the sighting of the silhouetted person seen at the bedroom window was explained as nothing but a 'trick of light', when the sighting of 'that' person at the parents bedroom window was not explained at all! In fact, based on Bews response to a sighting or movement at a first floor window as being nothing but a 'trick of light', the jury did not hear about the actual sighting of the person at the parents bedroom window!
Based on what Bews is saying in the latest video footage, his explaining about the 'trick of light' had got nothing ]to do with the person who was seen at the parents bedroom window (top left), but rather when he testified during the 1986 trial, his reference to a 'trick of light' related to Sheila's bedroom window (top right)
The truth relating to the sighting of the person at the parents bedroom window, therefore, which should have been the focal point of Jeremy Bambers defence, was never brought to the attention of the jury at all!
"when he (BEWS) testified during the 1986 trial, his reference to a 'trick of light' related to Sheila's bedroom window"
Are you 100% certain of this?
Please take your time before replying.
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"when he (BEWS) testified during the 1986 trial, his reference to a 'trick of light' related to Sheila's bedroom window"
Are you 100% certain of this?
Please take your time before replying.
I have a copy of his trial transcript somewhere, I will have to find it out - but I seem to recollect that it was Rivlin QC who suggested to PS Bews, that the movement at a first floor window was nothing but a 'trick of light'! It may well be that no specific first floor window was identified at all, I will have to check, but going by what Bews is now saying in the video footage he must have been inferring that the apparent movement at a first floor window had been Sheila Caffells bedroom window (top right), why would Bews change the window he had been referring to from the parents bedroom window to Sheila Caffells bedroom window, relying on the 'trick of light' explanation?
What I do know, is that as a result of Rivlin suggesting that the movement at a window may have been a 'trick of light', and he (Bews) agreeing that it was, that it upset Jeremy that the sighting of the person at his parents bedroom window (top left) was never mentioned at all in the presence of the jury, and when Jeremy testified he wasn't asked about 'it'...
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I have a copy of his trial transcript somewhere, I will have to find it out - but I seem to recollect that it was Rivlin QC who suggested to PS Bews, that the movement at a first floor window was nothing but a 'trick of light'! It may well be that no specific first floor window was identified at all, I will have to check, but going by what Bews is now saying in the video footage he must have been inferring that the apparent movement at a first floor window had been Sheila Caffells bedroom window (top right), why would Bews change the window he had been referring to from the parents bedroom window to Sheila Caffells bedroom window, relying on the 'trick of light' explanation?
What I do know, is that as a result of Rivlin suggesting that the movement at a window may have been a 'trick of light', and he (Bews) agreeing that it was, that it upset Jeremy that the sighting of the person at his parents bedroom window (top left) was never mentioned at all in the presence of the jury, and when Jeremy testified he wasn't asked about 'it'...
This is one of those situations where the CCRC will say that Jeremy had this evidence available to him at the time of his trial, and because he did not rely upon it then, it does not constitute fresh evidence - but...
At the time of Jeremy's trial he and everybody else present at his trial were under an impression that what Rivlin was suggesting in so far as the movement at a first floor window was concerned being a 'trick of light' was a reference to the parents bedroom window! However, now that that matter has been clarified by reference to the video footage where PS Bews explains in more detail, it becomes obvious that Bews was not referring to the movement of the figure at the parents bedroom window (top left), but rather he was referring to the purported movement at Sheila Caffells bedroom window (top right)! Seems to me, therefore, that such was the confusion arising out of this matter, that the jury were not properly availed of the specific first floor window that Jeremy sought to rely upon!
The sighting of the figure at the parents bedroom window, therefore, was not properly aired during the trial through no fault of Jeremy's, and the jury never got an opportunity to reject that evidence! Seems to me to be a somewhat perfectly legal entitlement for Jeremy to be a able to rely upon this feature of evidence, since its existence goes to the heart of the prosecutions case, nullifying it, in more ways than one...
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Mike,
From https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPRd912xv9M&feature=youtu.be I thinks its safe to say "arrived at house" means arrived at front of house.
Therefore based on his left to right clockwise hand motion, it can only be ONE of two windows he is referring to, both arrowed in black:
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Transcript from video:
We arrive, the weather's good, we can see the house, we've got a clear view of the house, although there's no artificial light - we're relying on moonlight; it was a clear summer night [pause] erm, we speak with Jeremy Bamber, who says that potentially there's a [pause] a mad woman in the house with a gun. I already had in the back of my mind I was going to call out the firearms unit, 'cause I wasn't going to go and knock on the front door and risk it being answered by a mad woman with a gun. Erm - also, I didn't want to go close to the building because [pause] if you're seen, then obviously you could become a target yourself, so what,
what I asked Jeremy if he'd mind doing is come with me and Steve Myall, one of the Pcs, on a tour of the perimeter of the farmyard to have a look, see what we could get from the house. As we go round, Steve Myall says "Oh, hang on, stop. I think I saw someone move." And we look up and think 'Where?' He said "That window up there." And he's indicating as we're looking at the back of the building, top right, so first floor on the right-hand side, no light coming out of the building, and I couldn't see anything. We, we look at it for a while, and I said "Are you sure you saw something move?" And he said "Well, I think so." I said "Well, let's move back." We became quite satisfied, after a couple of minutes of just moving ourselves slightly, that we could replicate the same sense of movement, and it wasn't anybody moving, it was just a trick of, literally, a trick of the light.
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Because of the fact Sgt Bews said "As we go round" and "we're looking at the back of the building" and gestured left to right anticlockwise.
it can ONLY have been the BOX ROOM window.
A few feet from where Sheila was found dead.
Emphasis on the words "As we", this Emphasises it was at the beginning of the circumvent.
Otherwise would he have said "we had gone round".?
As I say Sgt Bews makes it very much sound that it was at the beginning of the circumvent
Many thanks @reader
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Mike,
From https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPRd912xv9M&feature=youtu.be I thinks its safe to say "arrived at house" means arrived at front of house.
Therefore based on his left to right clockwise hand motion, it can only be ONE of two windows he is referring to, both arrowed in black:
Upon first arrival at the scene, the occupants of CA07 parked up on Pages Lane, close to the farm cottages! Once Jeremy arrived, Bews, Myall and Jeremy went to the side of the farmhouse where the main entrance to the farmhouse was situated! This, Bews and Myall treated as the front of the house! When they talk about the back of the farmhouse, they have got to be on the side of the farmhouse with its front door and one window either side of it at ground floor level, and three windows at first floor level! There is only one bedroom window in the parents bedroom, that is on the side of the farmhouse which Bews refers to as the back of the house! He treats the courtyard door side of the farmhouse, as the front of the house, when in reality it is the back of the house!
Jeremy and the police definitely did not see anyone at the box room window Dow on the first floor! Jeremy says the person they were observing was stood to the right hand side of the parents bedroom window! This means, that the window where the person was stood, and eventually moved off from, was the front of whf, not the back of it - top left!
People should not become confused because Bews did not know what was the front of the farmhouse, as opposed to the back of it, or vice versa!
Remember also, that neither Bews nor Myall, or Saxby, entered the farmhouse at any stage or visited the parents bedroom?
Jeremy is adamant that the person seen was seen at his parents bedroom window, and since there was only one window of the parents bedroom, the person seen moving around in that bedroom, was seen at the top left window in the following image..
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Rather than take my account of the events, people should contact Jeremy personally, the result will be the same, the person that was seen was seen via the parents bedroom window, not the box room window! The parents bedroom only effectively had one window, the second window had been bricked up, on that side of the farmhouse, where the box room is situated! I can't imagine that Jeremy would want anyone moving the sighting of the person at his parents bedroom window on one side of the farmhouse, to the box room window on another side of the farmhouse...
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Rather than take my account of the events, people should contact Jeremy personally, the result will be the same, the person that was seen was seen via the parents bedroom window, not the box room window! The parents bedroom only effectively had one window, the second window had been bricked up, on that side of the farmhouse, where the box room is situated! I can't imagine that Jeremy would want anyone moving the sighting of the person at his parents bedroom window on one side of the farmhouse, to the box room window on another side of the farmhouse...
I have no doubt Jeremy is correct, and saw movement behind the Parents bedroom window...
As the box room (the Room Steve Myall saw movement) is adjoined to the Parents bedroom.
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I'm sorry I don't know how anyone could mistake the 'Front of the house' the Front door with pillars either side is very imposing.
I understand, there is not a rear of house (area behind coal shed would be this, but its non descript), so to speak, it is more accurately described as 'Side(s)' two.
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I have no doubt Jeremy is correct, and saw movement behind the Parents bedroom window...
As the box room (the Room Steve Myall saw movement) is adjoined to the Parents bedroom.
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I'm sorry I don't know how anyone could mistake the 'Front of the house' the Front door with pillars either side is very imposing.
I understand, there is not a rear of house (area behind coal shed would be this, but its non descript), so to speak, it is more accurately described as 'Side(s)' two.
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For clarity I have marked F as Front
From this arial photograph there appears to be a number of ways to access the Farm. based on that I can imagine anyone 'new' to the property may consider 'Side' to be Front...if they had not seen Front.
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Thank you, that clears that up then.
Bathroom (orange curtains) / Twins room (Green curtains) windows
Therefore it must have been 'Box Room' where movement was seen, the room to right of Twins room.
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Have you Page 4?
Thanks
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During my in-depth discussions with Jeremy regarding what he thought they were all observing (figure at his parents bedroom window), Jeremy told me on many many occasions that all three of them clearly saw the outline of someone (in silhouetted fashion) stood at one side of his parents bedroom window, as though whoever it was, was looking out from 'that' window, for whatever reason! One of the questions I raised with Jeremy, was whether he and or the police believed that this person had seen them at this time?
Jeremy told me, ' I don't think so'...
I believe Jeremy was talking about movement in Parent's bedroom, but viewed though Box room window with door open.
Please see black line below:
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The jury were deceived because the 'trick of light' alluded to by Bews during his testimony, involved a separate first floor window to that which the silhouetted figure was seen (at Parents bedroom window) by himself, Myalls and Jeremy Bamber. The 'trick of light' explanation may well have applied to Sheila Caffell's bedroom window (top right), but could not be entertained with regard to the parents bedroom window (top left). This 'trick of light' being caused by moonlight shining through branches of a nearby tree casting shadows against Sheila Caffell's bedroom window, apparent movement there caused by the shift in position of an observer in different positions around the perimeter of the farmhouse!
No such 'trick of light' could occur against the parents bedroom window because there were no nearby trees to create the same illusion!
I am not suggesting Sgt. Chris Bews deliberately tried to deceive, but the bold print below would mislead any Jury on a CRUCIAL point, the BOX ROOM WINDOW.
The window that TWO police officer saw movement, and TWO separate police officers saw a rifle.
FOUR separate Police officers in total!!!! while Jeremy was outside with the Police!.
The room is just feet away from where Sheila's body was found.
It is very very very significant.
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When Jeremy and the police arrived at White House Farm they saw movement in the master bedroom. Below is an extract from PS Bews trial transcript:
Rivlin: "Do you remember at some stage early on, this happened that one of you Police Officers said that you thought you could see a shadow and you all jumped?"
Bews: "Yes, that is when we first went to the house with Mr Bamber. We had gone round what I thought was the back. We had seen the kitchen door with the light on. We then went into a field which is at the side of the farm house and went went round to where what is - - I believe the front door is and above that is a window. As we moved away I thought we saw something else move, a shadow, something like that. We looked up and after looking for a couple of minutes I was satisfied that it was a - - perhaps a part in the glass that just shone the light slightly as you looked at it."
Rivlin: "It could have been a trick of the light?"
Bews: "I think it was a trick of the light"
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Thank you, that clears that up then.
Bathroom (orange curtains) / Twins room (Green curtains) windows
Therefore it must have been 'Box Room' where movement was seen, the room to right of Twins room.
Not the same movement that Jeremy speaks about, since he was at the front of the house with the two police officers when they observed the person standing to the right of his parents bedroom window (as viewed from his vantage point)! Since there was only one window to his parents bedroom, and that window was on the front of the farmhouse, not on the red brick side where the windows of the bathroom Red curtains), the twins room (green curtains) and the box room (the window at which the rifle would later appear in time for WPC Jeapes and PC Brown to see it there at around 7.15am, or thereabouts) are situated!
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I am not suggesting Sgt. Chris Bews deliberately tried to deceive, but the bold print below would mislead any Jury on a CRUCIAL point, the BOX ROOM WINDOW. I agree that the jury may have been deceived by what Bews and Rivlin spoke about during the trial...
The window that TWO police officer saw movement I disagree since two police officers did not see any movement at the box room window, if they did Jeremy would have been aware of this! The movement as far as any first floor window is concerned was noticed once they went around to the front of the farmhouse, something which PS Bews refers to as the back of the farmhouse, albeit correctly identified by reference to the front door of the farmhouse! I am sure thst Jeremy woul have remembered a sighting or movement at the box room window on the red brick part of the house if there had been such movement contemplated there at that window!, and TWO separate police officers saw a rifle. Two police officers (Julia Jeapes and PC Brown did see a rifle at the box room window, but this sighting occuirred over 3 hours after the sighting of the person on the other side of the house at the parents bedroom window!FOUR separate Police officers in total!!!! Different observations not relating to the same first floor window I am afraid... while Jeremy was outside with the Police Yes, Jeremy outside with the police at the time the person was seen standing at his parents bedroom window at about 4.00am to 4.02am, and over 3 hours later when the rifle appeared at the box room window on the red brick part of the farmhouse...!.
The room is just feet away from where Sheila's body was found. It is, but rest assured that no movement was observed at the box room window by the police officers or Jeremy Bamber, the events occurred at different windows at different times...
It is very very very significant. It's always been significant because with a person still being alive inside the farmhouse, in particular, inside the parents bedroom when Jeremy was outside in the company of Bews and Myall it meaans that the prosecutions claaim during trial that Jeremy Bamber was the very last person alive to leave whf that night cannot be true! Since, 'he' clearly cannot have been the last person seen alive inside the farmhouse at all! Additionally, the sudden appearence of the rifle at the box room window for the very first time, placed there by someone at around 7.15am, that morning, could only have been placed there, or put there by someone still alive inside the house...
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When Jeremy and the police arrived at White House Farm they saw movement in the master bedroom. Below is an extract from PS Bews trial transcript:
Rivlin: "Do you remember at some stage early on, this happened that one of you Police Officers said that you thought you could see a shadow and you all jumped?"
Bews: "Yes, that is when we first went to the house with Mr Bamber. We had gone round what I thought was the back. He is referring to the front of the farmhouse, here... We had seen the kitchen door with the light on. He was referring to seeing the kitchen door with the light on at what he opriginally percieved to have been the front of the farmhouse, but which by the time of the trial in 1986 he knew was the rear entrance to the farmhouse.. We then went into a field which is at the side of the farm house (The front of the farmhouse)..and went went round to where what is - - I believe the front door is and above that is a window. (this was where Bews deceived the jury, because there were three windows on the first floor above the front door, for example top left the parents bedroom window,
top middle was the upper landing window, and top right was Sheila Caffells bedroom window).. As we moved away I thought we saw something else move I find this very interesting since the inference is that Bews had in his mind two separate occasions when he knew about some movement or other, one sighting (top left) at the parents bedroom window, and a second sighting or movement at another window! Having seen the latest video account that Bews has given, it is quite obvious to me that the only window he is referring to in his video account it the window top right at the front of the farmhouse, that being Sheila Caffells bedroom window (not the box room window which is situated on the red brick part of the farmhouse...), a shadow, something like that. You would have got a shadow cast onto the glass of the parents bedroom window at the front of the farmhouse, but the same could not be said about Sheila Caffells bedroom window which was prone to have the branches, twigs and leafs casting shadows thereon... We looked up and after looking for a couple of minutes I was satisfied that it was a - - perhaps a part in the glass that just shone the light slightly as you looked at it." He is referring to the glass of Sheila Caffells bedroom window (top right)..
Rivlin: "It could have been a trick of the light?" At which first floor window?
Bews: "I think it was a trick of the light" Not upon the the parents bedroom window (top left)...
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I believe Jeremy was talking about movement in Parent's bedroom, but viewed though Box room window with door open. No, he wasn't, he was talking about a view at the... front of the farmhouse where the front door to the premises is situated!
Please see black line below: There is no evidence that the internal connecting door between the main bedroom which was the parents bedroom, and the box room, which was situated between the parents bedroom and the bedroom where the twins were both sleeping. The only photographic evidence which exists showing a view of that inter connecting doorway, shows that the door in question is hinged on its right, with the opening edge of that door swinging from left to right! The door itself would have proved to be an obstruction, denying anyone seeing into the parents bedroom via the box room window on the red brick part of the farmhouse!
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Mike
Where did they (Bews and Mayall + Jeremy) arrive at WHF please?
? Front
? Left handside (BOX ROOM , TWINS ROOM side of house)
? Rear (coal shed)
? Right handside
Which ONE of the above four?
Thanks
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Mike
Where did they arrive at WHF please?
? Front
? Left handside (BOX ROOM , TWINS ROOM side of house)
? Rear (coal shed)
? Right handside
Which ONE of the above four?
Thanks
The occupants of CA07, (3.48am) and Jeremy (3.52am) arrived at the scene and parked their vehicles in Pages Lane, in close proximity to what are known, or referred to, as the farm cottages!
When Bews, Myall and Jeremy went on a recce of the farmhouse shortly after arriving at the scene, their route to the farmhouse was as follows:-
They turned right off Pages Lane, and followed the farm track around to the court yard side of the premises (lets call it the red brick part of the house) with the bathroom with its red curtains, and the twins bedroom with the green curtains situated on the first floor..
Then, after this they went to the right of the farmhouse (initially) and stood in a field facing towards the front of the farmhouse, but Jeremy told me that at one stage because PC Myall thought he had seen someone at his parents bedroom window (top left), they went into the grounds of the farmhouse and took temporary cover behind some raised flower beds in the front garden! Now I have had many a dispute with members of this forum and elsewhere, where they say there was no such raised flower beds at all in the front garden of the farmhouse at that time! All I can say, is that Jeremy was very specific when he spoke to me about what happened and where some of the observations of the figure at his parents bedroom window had been made from!
Jeremy has always maintained to me that himself and the two police officers were crouching down behind these small walled flower beds when they observed the person at the parents bedroom window!
Some people say that there were no bricked flower beds at all in the front garden of the farmhouse, and that it was a hedge which separated the front garden from the field in front of it! All I can say, is that Jeremy conveyed to me the two separate vantage points of the front part of the farmhouse, as seen by himself and the two police officers that morning, initially they were stood in a field at the front of the farmhouse behind a hedge, and latterly they had made their way into the front garden and took refuge behind these raised flower beds, he told me these raised flower beds were built out of brick!
It was whilst they were all taking cover behind these raised flower beds that Jeremy saw the person, who he described to me as being a silhouetted figure who was standing to the right hand side of his parents bedroom window! I asked him on several occasions if he could say with any degree of certainty whether the person they all saw was male or female, in particular was it any member of his family, or not?
He responded by saying that it was not possible from his vantage paint to say who that person was...
Now, his response was an extraordinary one, since it would have been the easiest thing in the world for him to say that he saw Sheila at his parents bedroom window, on that / this occasion, but instead he gave me what I believe was an honest explanation, he said he 'couldn't tell'...
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The occupants of CA07, (3.48am) and Jeremy (3.52am) arrived at the scene and parked their vehicles in Pages Lane, in close proximity to what are known, or referred to, as the farm cottages!
When Bews, Myall and Jeremy went on a recce of the farmhouse shortly after arriving at the scene, their route to the farmhouse was as follows:-
They turned right off Pages Lane, and followed the farm track around to the court yard side of the premises (lets call it the red brick part of the house) with the bathroom with its red curtains, and the twins bedroom with the green curtains situated on the first floor..
They went to the right of the farmhouse (initially) and stood in a filed facing twowards the front of the farmhouse, but Jeremy told me that at one stage because PC Myall thought he had seen someone at his parents bedroom window (top left), they went into the grounds of the farmhouse and took temporary cover behind some raised flower beds in the front garden! Now I have had many a dispute with members of this forum and elsewhere, where they say there was no such raised flower beds at all in the front garden of the farmhouse at that time! All I can say, is that Jeremy was very specific when he spoke to me about what happened and where some of the observations of the figure at his parents bedroom window had been made from!
Jeremy has always maintained to me that himself and the two police officers were crouching down behind these small walled flower beds when they observed the person at the parents bedroom window!
Some people say that there were no bricked flower beds at all in the front garden of the farmhouse, and that it was a hedge which separated the front garden from the field in front of it!
Thanks for the detailed reply.
So in the video https://youtu.be/yPRd912xv9M , where was Bews located? when he does a left to right, clockwise motion with his hand.
ie THE START of the circumnavigation.
? Front
? Left handside (BOX ROOM , TWINS ROOM side of house)
? Rear (coal shed)
? Right handside
thanks
-
Thanks for the detailed reply.
So in the video https://youtu.be/yPRd912xv9M , where was Bews located? when he does a left to right, clockwise motion with his hand.
ie THE START of the circumnavigation.
? Front
? Left handside (BOX ROOM , TWINS ROOM side of house)
? Rear (coal shed)
? Right handside
thanks
Based upon the account given to me by Jeremy in fine detail, Bews was at the front of the farmhouse, with three windows above the front door, 'top left' window being the parents bedroom window, 'top middle' window being the upper landing window, and 'top right' being Sheila Caffells bedroom window!
I think it is somewhat apparent that when Bews starts talking about the movement that he gestures with his hand the top left hand side of the farmhouse, but then corrects himself and deliberately mentions the window top right, which as we know was Sheila Caffells bedroom window, a window that was prone to have shadows cast upon it by the branches, twigs and leafs of nearby trees, as easily demonstrated by reference to the following image..
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What I do find particularly interesting, concerning your interest in the box room window on the red brick side of the farmhouse, is the fact that...
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Based upon the account given to me by Jeremy in fine detail, Bews was at the front of the farmhouse, with three windows above the front door, top left window being the parents bedroom window, top middle window being the upper landing window, and to right being Sheila Caffells bedroom window!
I think it is somewhat apparent that when Bews starts talking about the movement that he gestures with his hand the top left hand side of the farmhouse, but then corrects himself and deliberately mentions the window top right, which as we know was Sheila Caffells bedroom window, a window that was prone to have shadows cast upon it by the branches, twigs and leafs of nearby trees, as easily demonstrated by reference to the following image..
Thanks Mike,
Well based on the video they hadn't seen 'trick of the light' at FRONT.
'Trick of the Light' occurred side of house, box room, twins room side.
Otherwise surely Bews would have contacted fire arms team and 'stayed put'
At the FRONT. (Front door/pillars)...
Surely?...
nb
Can we discuss Jeremy's account later, thanks
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Thanks Mike,
Well based on the video they hadn't seen 'trick of the light' at FRONT.
'Trick of the Light' occurred side of house, box room, twins room side. To my knowledge, there was never a sighting of anybody, or movement at the box room window, on the red brick part of the premises, and I don't think Jeremy was made aware of such a sighting at that stage, prior to them moving into a field at the front of the farmhouse behind a hedge, and then, as I say upon entering the grounds of the front garden and taking refuge behind raised flower beds in the front garden
Otherwise surely Bews would have contacted fire arms team and 'stayed put' The only definite sighting of the person (whoever it was) was made as far as Jeremy is concerned whilst he and the two police officers were at the front of the farmhouse, initially in a field behind a hedge, and secondly from their vantage point where they were taking refuge behind raised flower beds in the front garden!
Neither Bews nor Myall had personal radios with them when they went on the recce of the premises with Jeremy (these were left in the patrol car with PS Saxby) - hence, why after the observations I am alluding to, Bews, Myall and Jeremy rushed back to the patrol car manned by PS Saxby, and that was when PS Bews passed the situation report, requesting that the firearms team should be called out because of what they had just witnessed...
At the FRONT....
Surely?...
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"To my knowledge, there was never a sighting of anybody, or movement at the box room window, on the red brick part of the premises"
This was 'Trick of The Light' side.
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Can we discuss Jeremy's account later, thanks
Well, Jeremy's account is a fascinating one, obtained from him under the strictest of measures, where he knew that I was no mug, and that it was important to me to hear the truth from him, regarding these and similar matters - I made it plain to Jeremy that if he ever thought of lying to me about anything I asked him about, and that lie flagged up, that I would never be able to help him!
Jeremy knew right from the beginning, that if he told me lies, it wouldn't look good for him!
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"To my knowledge, there was never a sighting of anybody, or movement at the box room window, Nothing of the sort that Jeremy knew anything at all about, for sure, nobody seen at, and no movement at all at, that box room window, on the red bricked part of the premises - I agree...!on the red brick part of the premises"
This was 'Trick of The Light' side. And, what motive do you have in mind, for Bews and Myall suggesting that the box room window on the red bricked part of the premises, being the first floor window where this 'trick of light' took place, or occurred?
Are you trying to imply that Bews and Myall introduced this false explanation because they were aware of the sudden appearance of the rifle at the box room window minutes prior to the raid team entering the premises?
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"To my knowledge, there was never a sighting of anybody, or movement at the box room window, Nothing of the sort that Jeremy knew anything at all about, for sure, nobody seen at, and no movement at all at, that box room window, on the red bricked part of the premises - I agree...!on the red brick part of the premises"
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So which Window of which room was Sgt. Bewes referring to very specifically https://youtu.be/yPRd912xv9M , top far right.?
Baring in mind we have established it was not the FRONT (front door/pillars) of house.
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You see...
Nobody other than WPC Jeapes, and PC Brown refer to that rifle being seen at the box room window on the red bricked part of the farmhouse! That rifle wasn't there, for example, when Bews, Myall and Jeremy approached the premises at around 4.00am to 4.02am...
It had to have been placed there later on, by somebody who was clearly still alive inside the farmhouse!
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"To my knowledge, there was never a sighting of anybody, or movement at the box room window, Nothing of the sort that Jeremy knew anything at all about, for sure, nobody seen at, and no movement at all at, that box room window, on the red bricked part of the premises - I agree...!on the red brick part of the premises"
-------
So which Window of which room was Sgt. Bews referring to very specially, top far right.?
To my mind, he was referring to Sheila Caffells bedroom window at the front of the farmhouse, but it is possible that he deliberately speaks of the window in question, in a confused state because he has in the back of his mind, the sudden appearance of the rifle at the box room window on the red bricked part of the farmhouse! Seems possible to me, that Bews has deliberately sought to imply that anything that anybody thought they had seen at the box room window (on red bricked part of the premises) could simply be dismissed as a 'trick of light', thereby negating the significance of the rifle being palced at that box room window just before the six man raid team entered the farmhouse!
Baring in mind we have established it was not the FRONT (front door/pillars) of house. I don't think we have quite established that / this at this time to be frank...
But..
I am mindful that Bews and Myall might have tried to 'muddy the waters' insofar as any sighting of any kind, by anyone, at the box room window on the red bricked part of the farmhouse...
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But..
I am mindful that Bews and Myall might have tried to 'muddy the waters' insofar as any sighting of any kind, by anyone, at the box room window on the red bricked part of the farmhouse...
Is it possible, that Bews and Myall set out to try and discredit the claims made by Jeapes and Brown that the rifle was ever at the box room window, on the red bricked part of the farmhouse?
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" Bews was at the front of the farmhouse, with three windows above the front door, top left window being the parents bedroom window, top middle window being the upper landing window"
To confirm, this is the area that the three left from to go on their Clockwise (as per Bew's hand motion in video) circumvent of house.?
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" Bews was at the front of the farmhouse, with three windows above the front door, top left window being the parents bedroom window, top middle window being the upper landing window"
To confirm, this is the area that the three left from to go on their circumvent of house.?
No, Bews, Myall and Jeremy approached the farmhouse from the courtyard side of the premises (that part which houses the bathroom (red curtains), the twins room (green curtains) and the box room windows on the first floor of the red bricked part of whf)..
From 'that' side of the premises, 'they went into a field at the front of the farmhouse' (behind a hedge), where before 'them' was the actual 'front door to the house', above which on the first floor, were three windows, (top left) was the parents bedroom window, (top middle) was the upper landing window, and (top right) was Sheila Caffells bedroom window!
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No, Bews, Myall and Jeremy approached the farmhouse from the courtyard side of the premises (that part which houses the bathroom (red curtains), the twins room (green curtains) and the box room windows on the first floor of the red bricked part of whf)..
From 'that' side of the premises, they went into a field at the front of the farmhouse (behind a hedge), where before them was the actual front door to the house, above which on the first floor, were three windows, (top left) was the parents bedroom window, (top middle) was the upper landing window, and (top right) was Sheila Caffells bedroom window!
But the actual clockwise circumvent Started at the FRONT (front door/pillars) of house?
Is this correct?
thanks
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No, Bews, Myall and Jeremy approached the farmhouse from the courtyard side of the premises (that part which houses the bathroom (red curtains), the twins room (green curtains) and the box room windows on the first floor of the red bricked part of whf)..
From 'that' side of the premises, 'they went into a field at the front of the farmhouse' (behind a hedge), where before 'them' was the actual 'front door to the house', above which on the first floor, were three windows, (top left) was the parents bedroom window, (top middle) was the upper landing window, and (top right) was Sheila Caffells bedroom window!
I understand what your trying to suggest, or to imply, that the top right window which Bews is referring to in his video account, was a reference to the box room window, rather that a reference to Sheila Caffells bedroom window - the bottom line, the way I see it, was that Bews doesn't want to talk about the person that was seen at the parents bedroom window, because he realises it would collapse the case that was brought against Jeremy Bamber...
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I understand what your trying to suggest, or to imply, that the top right window which Bews is referring to in his video account, was a reference to the box room window, rather that a reference to Sheila Caffells bedroom window - the bottom line, the way I see it, was that Bews doesn't want to talk about the person that was seen at the parents bedroom window, because he realises it would collapse the case that was brought against Jeremy Bamber...
Mike, I'm trying to establish where the circumvent STARTED.
Thanks!
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But the actual clockwise circumvent Started at the FRONT (front door/pillars) of house? The truth in the matter, is that they did not go around the perimeter of the farmhouse in a clockwork fashion from their starting point on the court yard side of the farmhouse, they effectively started to go anti-clockwise, but only got as far as the front of the farmhouse, with its actual front door, and Sheila's bedroom top right!
Is this correct? No, the gesture Bews introduces where he starts off as though he is talking about a window on the left (top left) but soon rectifies his mistake and deliberately mentions top right window on the first floor is reference to a view of Sheila Caffells bedroom window (top right) at the actual front of the farmhouse! Otherwise, Bews would have been referring to an issue-that nobody was seeking to rely upon, or even knew anything at all about!
thanks
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The sightings of the rifle at the box room window on the red bricked part of the farmhouse, by WPC Julia Jeapes and PC Brown, were not disclosed to Jeremy or his legal team by the time this matter came to light in 1986...
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The sightings of the rifle at the box room window on the red bricked part of the farmhouse, by WPC Julia Jeapes and PC Brown, were not disclosed to Jeremy or his legal team by the time this matter came to light in 1986...
With this in mind, why would Bews and Myall try to discredit any sightings of anything at that very self same box room window?
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What becomes patently clear, however, was that the jury never got to consider the sighting of the person at the parents bedroom window, standing there to the right hand side, and then after a couple of minutes walking away briskly across the full opening of the bedroom window, which the two police officers and Jeremy was observing...
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At the end of the day, the jury never got to hear anything at all about the rifle which Julia Jeapes did see at the box room window at a time prior to when the six man raid team entered the premises! Her evidence (had it been given) would have been supported independently by the testimony of PC Brown who also mentions the position of that gun at that Box room window - how did that rifle manage to find its way into the possession of Sheila Caffell at any stage, thereafter?
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The confusion is Bew's view on what is Front and what is Back and what is Side of the house, it cant be all three.
Which is it?, is the mention of the kitchen the clue?
......
Bews: "Yes, that is when we first went to the house with Mr Bamber. We had gone round what I thought was the back. We had seen the kitchen door with the light on. We then went into a field which is at the side of the farm house and went went round to where what is - - I believe the front door is and above that is a window. As we moved away I thought we saw something else move, a shadow, something like that. We looked up and after looking for a couple of minutes I was satisfied that it was a - - perhaps a part in the glass that just shone the light slightly as you looked at it."
Rivlin: "It could have been a trick of the light?"
Bews: "I think it was a trick of the light"
......
Below is what he said in a documentary by Guardian Films of January 2011.
We arrive, the weather's good, we can see the house, we've got a clear view of the house, although there's no artificial light - we're relying on moonlight; it was a clear summer night [pause] erm, we speak with Jeremy Bamber, who says that potentially there's a [pause] a mad woman in the house with a gun. I already had in the back of my mind I was going to call out the firearms unit, 'cause I wasn't going to go and knock on the front door and risk it being answered by a mad woman with a gun. Erm - also, I didn't want to go close to the building because [pause] if you're seen, then obviously you could become a target yourself, so what, what I asked Jeremy if he'd mind doing is come with me and Steve Myall, one of the Pcs, on a tour of the perimeter of the farmyard to have a look, see what we could get from the house. As we go round, Steve Myall says "Oh, hang on, stop. I think I saw someone move." And we look up and think 'Where?' He said "That window up there." And he's indicating as we're looking at the back of the building, top right, so first floor on the right-hand side, no light coming out of the building, and I couldn't see anything. We, we look at it for a while, and I said "Are you sure you saw something move?" And he said "Well, I think so." I said "Well, let's move back." We became quite satisfied, after a couple of minutes of just moving ourselves slightly, that we could replicate the same sense of movement, and it wasn't anybody moving, it was just a trick of, literally, a trick of the light.
thanks @Reader
Confused, I am!!!
I challenge anyone to understand which room he is referring to......
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It's because he was so full of his own importance that he wasn't really listening/concentrating.
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It's somewhat obvious to me, that the only first floor window where there was any sort of movement that morning was at the parents bedroom window! And, with the cops at the front of the premises, that window on the first floor was top left (not top right)!
As far as I know there was no issue of movement being spotted at any other first floor window!
However, what also becomes clear was that the sighting of the person at the parents bedroom window (top left) was never mentioned or taken into account by the jury! The confusion created by Rivlin and Bews, being the chief cause of this ommission!
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Guilters would want it to be any room except 'Box Room' / room dividing Twins Room.
'Free Jeremy Bamber supporters' would want it to be the 'Box Room' / room dividing Twins Room.
Why?
4 different police officers noticing something in that room, 'Box Room' / room dividing Twins Room.
Sheilla body was found feet away from door way of that Room.
Does not take a genius to realise the 'Box Room' / room dividing Twins is key. I always thought it did, but initially for different reasons.
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The sighting of the person at the first floor parents bedroom window, was almost certainly a reference to Neville Bamber (if we factor in the first entry of the 'Major Incident Project Register' entry 001 03.45hrs an 'unidentified male' seen by PC Myall at whf)..
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The sighting of the person at the first floor parents bedroom window, was almost certainly a reference to Neville Bamber (if we factor in the first entry of the 'Major Incident Project Register' entry 001 03.45hrs an 'unidentified male' seen by PC Myall at whf)..
With Neville Bamber, being that 'unidentified male' that Bews, Myall and Jeremy had seen standing at the parents bedroom window, at some time around 4.00am to 4.02am, it destroys the prosecution's case, for example, that Neville Bamber had not made a telephone call to Jeremy, as claimed by Jeremy, when in fact he had done, and did! Furthermore, Neville had then phoned the police himself at 3.26am, ' Daughter has gone berserk', etc, etc, etc...
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The sighting of the person at the first floor parents bedroom window, was almost certainly a reference to Neville Bamber (if we factor in the first entry of the 'Major Incident Project Register' entry 001 03.45hrs an 'unidentified male' seen by PC Myall at whf)..
Does Jeremy have very vivid dreams, that may appear real, looking back.
I cant even start to imagine what his mind has gone though.
I don't doubt Sheilla was seen moving btw, just not sure which room it was.
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With Neville Bamber, being that 'unidentified male' that Bews, Myall and Jeremy had seen standing at the parents bedroom window, at some time around 4.00am to 4.02am, it destroys the prosecution's case, for example, that Neville Bamber had not made a telephone call to Jeremy, as claimed by Jeremy, when in fact he had done, and did! Furthermore, Neville had then phoned the police himself at 3.26am, ' Daughter has gone berserk', etc, etc, etc...
This has other consequences, since the dripped blood in the vicinity of the parents bedroom window, around the foot of the bed, and on the bedroom carpet below where Sheila Caffell's body ended up eventually, may have been dripped there from the body of Neville Bamber after he attended his badly wounded wife June Bamber who had been shot a total of 7 times during the tragedy, 5 times non fatally! I can envisage Neville attending to his wife and getting her blood upon his person, and him being the person at the parents bedroom window dripping his wife's blood on parts of the carpet in that vicinity and elsewhere, and that June Bambers body never left the bed at all, until senior officers moved it to the main bedroom door during the secretive 'informatives' they performed accompanied by the first team of SOCO from police Headquarters, DC Oakey and DC Henderson...
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Guilters would want it to be any room except 'Box Room' / room dividing Twins Room.
'Free Jeremy Bamber supporters' would want it to be the 'Box Room' / room dividing Twins Room.All I would want it to be, is the actual room that Bews was / is referring to, a problem soon rectified by showing Bews a plan of the premises, and photographs showing front, back and sides, and asking him outright 'tell us in plain English which window you are talking about, on which side of the farmhouse'?
Why?
4 different police officers noticing something in that room, 'Box Room' / room dividing Twins Room. but, to my knowledge News and Myall never took issue with the glass of the box room window having a 'trick of light' feature associated to it?
Sheilla body was found feet away from door way of that Room. it's debates whether or not Sheila's body was found originally only feet away on the parents bedroom floor, considering that her body has been talked about as being present Downstairs in the kitchen, and on top of the bed in the parents bedroom, before it ended up on the bedroom floor!
Does not take a genius to realise the 'Box Room' / room dividing Twins is key. I always thought it did, but initially for different reasons.
The evidence which is of interest involving the box room and it's window, is the fact that the rifle appeared there at the box room window, before it eventually got photographed in the possession of Sheila Caffell's body on the parents bedroom floor! Somewhere in-between these two locations, the rifle was said by various police officers to have been resting at the parents bedroom window, it was resting on the bed in-between the bodies of June Bamber and Sheila Caffell', and so somebody other than Jeremy Bamber had moved and repositioned the rifle during the operation to stage her death scene there on the parents bedroom floor!
If it be true, for example, that the person who staged Sheila's death scene as a suicide 'is her killer', look no further than the police, themselves!!!
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All I would want it to be, is the actual room that Bews was / is referring to, a problem soon rectified by showing Bews a plan of the premises, and photographs showing front, back and sides, and asking him outright 'tell us in plain English which window you are talking about, on which side of the farmhouse'?
Yes it would be good to know which room he meant, very very good.
Whether it is either one of the two box rooms, or Sheilla's room.
I've managed to just about hone it down to these three possible rooms!
Would also be interesting to know which room the 12 jury members thought it was, but I don't think that will ever be possible.
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Seems to me, that Bews, Myall and Saxby, are at the heart of everything wrong in this case! Since, (a) they weren't present at Witham police station to answer Jeremy's call there at about 3.28am / 3.29am, (b) they were deployed to the incident (3.35am) prior to Jeremy contacting PC West at 3.36am and raising the alarm, (c) Bews and Myall saw a person moving around in the bedroom via the parents bedroom window, but chose to remain silent about it, because to speak out about it would collapse the prosecution's case against Jeremy (d) the contents of Bews situation report from the scene to the police control room, immediately after the sighting of the figure stood at the parents bedroom window, when Bews requested that the firearms team be deployed to the incident (e) the various police messages that were passed from the scene to the control room by the occupants 'CA07' where mention is made of two bodies found upon entry to the premises, the body of one dead male, and the body of one dead female, a murder and a suicide (f) the message they relayed from the scene to the control room at 8.10am, that the other three victims bodies had all been found upstairs!
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There can be no doubt whatsoever in this case, that Essex police have disturbed the various crimes scenes inside the farmhouse, and re-arranged it and presented the rearranged results, as though this was how the bodies had been found upon first entry to the premises by the police! They used two teams of SOCO during this exercise, the first SOCO team from headquarters compromising of DC Oakey and DC Henderson, who videod the positions of the bodies, and took photographs of the same, whilst senior officers went about trying to construct a plausible death scene overall, with Sheila being at the hub of this activity, they staged her death to promote the idea that she had taken her own life!
Why did Essex police go to such lengths, if Sheila had in fact taken her own life?
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There can be no doubt whatsoever in this case, that Essex police have disturbed the various crimes scenes inside the farmhouse, and re-arranged it and presented the rearranged results, as though this was how the bodies had been found upon first entry to the premises by the police! They used two teams of SOCO during this exercise, the first SOCO team from headquarters compromising of DC Oakey and DC Henderson, who videod the positions of the bodies, and took photographs of the same, whilst senior officers went about trying to construct a plausible death scene overall, with Sheila being at the hub of this activity, they staged her death to promote the idea that she had taken her own life!
Why did Essex police go to such lengths, if Sheila had in fact taken her own life?
The absolute truth, is that although a second team of SOCO attended the incident by 9.20am (Cook, Davidson, Hammersley and Bird), they were prevented from taking control of the scene for a further 40 minutes whilst senior officers staged everything inside the farmhouse as they wanted it to be recorded by Cooks second team!
Photographic albums were tampered with, so that any photographs which might tend to support the case for senior officers having done what they did, were removed and kept under lock and key in ACC 'Peter' Simpsons office safe!
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The absolute truth, is that although a second team of SOCO attended the incident by 9.20am (Cook, Davidson, Hammersley and Bird), they were prevented from taking control of the scene for a further 40 minutes whilst senior officers staged everything inside the farmhouse as they wanted it to be recorded by Cooks second team!
Photographic albums were tampered with, so that any photographs which might tend to support the case for senior officers having done what they did, were removed and kept under lock and key in ACC 'Peter' Simpsons office safe!
The jury had a right to know the truth regarding the dishonest restaging of the various death scenes inside the farmhouse that morning by senior officers, and the first team of SOCO...
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More importantly, the jury had a right to know about the rifle which had manifested itself at the box room window on the red brick part of the farmhouse, a matter of minutes before the six man raid team commenced it's approach to force an entry to bring the ongoing seige to a conclusion..
How had 'that' rifle at the box room window, managed to be found in the possession of Sheila Caffell's body on the bedroom floor by 10.00am, if Jeremy Bamber was the killer, and he had not only used that rifle to shoot and kill his sister, but how was it at all possible for him to have staged his sister's death scene, there on the parents bedroom floor in possession of 'that' rifle?
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Yes it would be good to know which room he meant, very very good.
Whether it is either one of the two box rooms, or Sheilla's room.
I've managed to just about hone it down to these three possible rooms!
Would also be interesting to know which room the 12 jury members thought it was, but I don't think that will ever be possible.
Nigel, ponder the following...
Bews states that the window he is referring to, that there was no light coming out from it!
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Nigel, ponder the following...
Bews states that the window he is referring to, that there was no light coming out from it!
Remember that Jeremy says that the person seen at his parents window was silhouetted by virtue of the fact that either, the landing light was on, and or light filtered into the parents bedroom via the connecting door from the box room ( but the cops only had) the bathroom (red curtains), and the twins room (green curtains) with lights switched on! No mention of the light being switched on in the box room between the twins room and the parents bedroom! Seems to me that the bedroom the cops are referring to (top right) with no light coming from within that first floor room is Sheila Caffell's bedroom, her bedroom door shut tightly closed! Also note, that Bews mentioned the light switched on above the front door (middle window) belonging to upper landing which was the source of the parents bedroom being backlit!
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Remember that Jeremy says that the person seen at his parents window was silhouetted by virtue of the fact that either, the landing light was on, and or light filtered into the parents bedroom via the connecting door from the box room ( but the cops only had) the bathroom (red curtains), and the twins room (green curtains) with lights switched on! No mention of the light being switched on in the box room between the twins room and the parents bedroom! Seems to me that the bedroom the cops are referring to (top right) with no light coming from within that first floor room is Sheila Caffell's bedroom, her bedroom door shut tightly closed! Also note, that Bews mentioned the light switched on above the front door (middle window) belonging to upper landing which was the source of the parents bedroom being backlit!
I think you are right.
I have rewatched the video numerous times, but this time in 'slow mo' and Sgt. Bews does appear to motion anti clockwise.
This puts the focus on Sheilla's bedroom.
I wonder why she thought it necessary to close her bedroom door?
It was closed, yes?
Maybe she closed the door on the 'Good Sheila' I have a hunch she saw the four members of her family as salamander type evil reptiles, during her visual hallucination, acute psychotic episode.
This would explain the ferocity of the attack.
Beyond imagination but just my hunch.
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I think you are right.
I have rewatched the video numerous times, but this time in 'slow mo' and Sgt. Bews does appear to motion anti clockwise.
This puts the focus on Sheilla's bedroom.
I wonder why she thought it necessary to close her bedroom door?
It was closed, yes?
Nigel, yeah it was, but the upper landing light was switched on, as confirmed by reference to the light being switched on above the front door (middle window)! Jeremy stated that his parents bedroom appeared to be backlit at the time of the sighting of the person which presented that person to Jeremy's eyes as a silhouetted figure! It seems that the parents door to the upper landing must have been ajar, and light filtered through into his parents bedroom! This makes absolute sense to me, because in these circumstances, any person close to the parents bedroom window would appear to anyone outside as a silhouetted figure! This did not apply to Sheila's bedroom because her door was shut and therefore there was not light filtering through her bedroom door because it was closed, and in keeping with this Bews said there was no light emitting from that window!
Top right, therefore, has to be a reference to Sheila Caffell's bedroom window, not the parents bedroom window which at that time, in those circumstances was top left!
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So there is more chance of 'Trick of The Light' (I believe there was movement) due to the Moon's location on that part of the house (Front).
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So there is more chance of 'Trick of The Light' (I believe there was movement) due to the Moon's location on that part of the house (Front).
Well, look at this image, you can see that branches, twigs and leafs cast shadows against that part of the farmhouse where Sheila Caffell's bedroom window is located top right on the first floor! Obviously, in this image the shadows are being cast with the sun as the source of light in the day time sky! But, at night with the moon in that part of the sky it might cast similar shadows against the glass of Sheila Caffell's bedroom window! Now, Sheila's bedroom window was never an issue when Bews, Myall and Jeremy did their recce' of the outer perimeter of the farmhouse! The focal point was the parents bedroom window (top left) and the presence of that person there in the parents bedroom!
Seems somewhat obvious to me that the court particularly the jury never got to consider the implications of this sighting at the parents bedroom window, partly in chief because Rivlin and then Bews confused the real issue!
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Well, look at this image, you can see that branches, twigs and leafs cast shadows against that part of the farmhouse where Sheila Caffell's bedroom window is located top right on the first floor! Obviously, in this image the shadows are being cast with the sun as the source of light in the day time sky! But, at night with the moon in that part of the sky it might cast similar shadows against the glass of Sheila Caffell's bedroom window! Now, Sheila's bedroom window was never an issue when Bews, Myall and Jeremy did their recce' of the outer perimeter of the farmhouse! The focal point was the parents bedroom window (top left) and the presence of that person there in the parents bedroom!
Seems somewhat obvious to me that the court particularly the jury never got to consider the implications of this sighting at the parents bedroom window, partly in chief because Rivlin and then Bews confused the real issue!
Hi Mike
where is there any mention of a sighting in 'Parents bedroom"?
It was far right room 'Sheilla's bedroom" or were there two sightings, it would make sense if there were, more the better......
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Hi Mike
where is there any mention of a sighting in 'Parents bedroom"?
It was far right room 'Sheilla's bedroom" or were there two sightings, it would make sense if there were, more the better......
That's just it, officially neither Bews, not Myall make any mention in either their notebook entries, or their witness statements that anyone at all was seen at the parents bedroom window (top left window at the real front of the farmhouse)! The cops ignore this sighting altogether, which as you can imagine, it infuriated Jeremy Bamber! I guess that Jeremy is now banking upon the disclosure of PS Bews situation report, where upon immediately after the sighting that Bews requested that the firearms team be deployed to the incident!
Cops know what their doing, they daren't admit that they saw anybody moving around at the parents bedroom window, but rest assured that they did!
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That's just it, officially neither Bews, not Myall make any mention in either their notebook entries, or their witness statements that anyone at all was seen at the parents bedroom window (top left window at the real front of the farmhouse)! The cops ignore this sighting altogether, which as you can imagine, it infuriated Jeremy Bamber! I guess that Jeremy is now banking upon the disclosure of PS Bews situation report, where upon immediately after the sighting that Bews requested that the firearms team be deployed to the incident!
Cops know what their doing, they daren't admit that they saw anybody moving around at the parents bedroom window, but rest assured that they did!
The other problem, Bews and Myall had, was they never really understood which was the parents bedroom window at the front of the farmhouse, that was because neither of them entered the farmhouse at any stage and saw the bodies of victims in position - this was no coincidence because the occupants of CA07 were involved in confirming that two bodies were found in the kitchen upon entry to the premises, and only CV three bodies upstairs in the bedrooms by 8.10am...
Once you know this, you can see why neither Bews or Myall were invited into the farmhouse to witness how senior officers had distributed the bodies of victims differently!
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Let's get the facts right, with the occupants of CA07 relaying messages from the scene to the control room, there were two bodies downstairs from as early as 7.35am, and only a further three bodies upstairs by 8.10am...
Imagine the furore had Bews or Myall been invited into the farmhouse after 8.44am, and found there was only one body downstairs, the other bodies of the four victims being upstairs after this time?
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There's no doubt that Bews and Myall were kept from entering the farmhouse at any stage once the body count had changed from two downstairs (7.35am, onwards) and three bodies upstairs ( by 8.10am), into one body downstairs and four bodies upstairs (by 8.44am)!
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There's no doubt that Bews and Myall were kept from entering the farmhouse at any stage once the body count had changed from two downstairs (7.35am, onwards) and three bodies upstairs ( by 8.10am), into one body downstairs and four bodies upstairs (by 8.44am)!
Now, no matter which way you look at it, the body count downstairs versus upstairs altered after 8.10am...
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Now, no matter which way you look at it, the body count downstairs versus upstairs altered after 8.10am...
The sighting of the figure at the parents bedroom window (first floor top left at front of house), is inextricably linked to the alteration in the body count downstairs and upstairs, despite the sighting at the parents bedroom window occurred some three and a half hours prior to there being two bodies downstairs (7.35am) and only three bodies upstairs by 8.10am..
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Hi Mike
where is there any mention of a sighting in 'Parents bedroom"?
It was far right room 'Sheilla's bedroom" or were there two sightings, it would make sense if there were, more the better......
One document written by the police sais that all lights where on in the house. I dont believe that to be that case but in actual fact fact several lights where on and where shinning throught the door ways. So it appears all the lights were on.
This is important because you wont see a reflection of moonlight if the window is illuminated by lights from the inside. So the movement seen cannot be the moon like Bews claims.
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One document written by the police sais that all lights where on in the house. I dont believe that to be that case but in actual fact fact several lights where on and where shinning throught the door ways. So it appears all the lights were on.
This is important because you wont see a reflection of moonlight if the window is illuminated by lights from the inside. So the movement seen cannot be the moon like Bews claims.
Except that the window that Bews is referring to, was Sheila Caffell's bedroom window (top right) at the front of the house, which had no light at all coming from it, meaning the bedroom door to her bedroom was closed! Light from the moon, could have cast shadows of branches, twigs, and leafs onto the outside of that window!
But, I agree that because the parents bedroom was back lit that you couldn't get any distortion or a reflection caused by the moonlight! In any event there was no trees close to the parents bedroom window (top left)..
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Except that the window that Bews is referring to, was Sheila Caffell's bedroom window (top right) at the front of the house, which had no light at all coming from it, meaning the bedroom door to her bedroom was closed! Light from the moon, could have cast shadows of branches, twigs, and leafs onto the outside of that window!
But, I agree that because the parents bedroom was back lit that you couldn't get any distortion or a reflection caused by the moonlight! In any event there was no trees close to the parents bedroom window (top left)..
Mike, was Sheila's bedroom door shut, or not?
Thanks
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Mike, was Sheila's bedroom door shut, or not?
Thanks
According to Bews, and Myall, the light was on above the front door! This is reference to the upper landing window on the first floor, the landing light directly outside the parents bedroom door and Sheila's bedroom door being switched on!
The parents bedroom was backlit (according to Jeremy Bambers account), consistent with the door to the parents bedroom being ajar and allowing the landing light to filter into the parents bedroom! Jeremy's account regarding the person he saw as being a silhouetted figure at the parents bedroom window, is consistent with such a person being described as a silhouetted figure because the parents bedroom (top left) was back lit by the landing light!
The window top right, however (Sheila's bedroom window, had no light at all eminating from it, apparently) her bedroom was in total darkness! This was the first floor window that Bews chose to refer the trick of light to!
The sighting of the silhouetted figure see at the parents bedroom window, therefore, was never mentioned at all during Jeremy Bambers trial! This sighting was in my view capable of undermining the prosecution's case at the trial, because it means that there was someone clearly alive inside the farmhouse who could not have already been killed by Jeremy! The shadowy figure can be narrowed down to one or other of the three adult victims, Sheila, June, or Neville! Whichever one it was, there are consequences toward the safety of otherwise of the prosecution's case!
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According to Bews, and Myall, the light was on above the front door! This is reference to the upper landing window on the first floor, the landing light directly outside the parents bedroom door and Sheila's bedroom door being switched on!
The parents bedroom was backlit (according to Jeremy Bambers account), consistent with the door to the parents bedroom being ajar and allowing the landing light to filter into the parents bedroom! Jeremy's account regarding the person he saw as being a silhouetted figure at the parents bedroom window, is consistent with such a person being described as a silhouetted figure because the parents bedroom (top left) was back lit by the landing light!
The window top right, however (Sheila's bedroom window, had no light at all eminating from it, apparently) her bedroom was in total darkness! This was the first floor window that Bews chose to refer the trick of light to!
The sighting of the silhouetted figure see at the parents bedroom window, therefore, was never mentioned at all during Jeremy Bambers trial! This sighting was in my view capable of undermining the prosecution's case at the trial, because it means that there was someone clearly alive inside the farmhouse who could not have already been killed by Jeremy! The shadowy figure can be narrowed down to one or other of the three adult victims, Sheila, June, or Neville! Whichever one it was, there are consequences toward the safety of otherwise of the prosecution's case!
The bottom line, is that if the silhouetted figure seen at the parents bedroom window was Sheila Caffell, it means that Jeremy Bamber did not shoot his sister dead, or stage her death scene in possession of any rifle much later on!
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The bottom line, is that if the silhouetted figure seen at the parents bedroom window was Sheila Caffell, it means that Jeremy Bamber did not shoot his sister dead, or stage her death scene in possession of any rifle much later on!
If the silhouetted figure seen at the parents bedroom window was June Bamber, it means that Jeremy Bamber was not the shooter who fired two head shots into June Bambers head at a later time in the police operation. One of these two head shots was inflicted 'smack bang' between her eyes!! Her killer could only have been Neville Bamber, or as the case may be, have been Sheila Caffell!
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If the silhouetted figure who was seen at the parents bedroom window was Neville Bamber, then a part from the most obvious, i.e that Jeremy Bamber must have received a distress call from him telling Jeremy that Sheila had got the gun, etc, and that Neville himself 'had' phoned police at 3.26am to inform them that 'my daughter has gone berserk', it must also be the case that at least one of the other adults present inside the farmhouse that night must also have still been alive! This is because Neville Bamber did not commit suicide, he was shot 8 times, and murdered by another person who albeit perhaps only temporarily survived his death!
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Such was the significance of the sighting of the silhouetted figure seen at the parents bedroom window, it beggars belief that the court which tried the case never got to hear anything at all about it!
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It was not the responsibility of Jeremy Bamber to make sure that this evidence was raised during his trial!
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It was not the responsibility of Jeremy Bamber to make sure that this evidence was raised during his trial!
It was not Jeremy Bamber who made either PS Bews, or PC Myall, forget to make any notes in their pocketbooks about this particular sighting of a living person seen moving around in the parents bedroom, during a recce' of the farmhouse between 4.00am to 4.02am...
Jeremy Bamber had no control over what Bews and Myall wrote in their respective witness statements about this incident!
Jeremy had no influence in the decision by Essex police, not to disclose the contents of PS Bews situation report that he passed from the scene requesting the attendance of the firearms team immediately upon returning to the police patrol car that was being manned by PS Saxby in nearby Pages Lane, after the movement of the person had just been witnessed at the parents bedroom window!
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Jeremy Bamber could not have influenced the prosecution's decision to fail to provide any explanation at all regarding the sighting of the person who had been seen moving around inside the parents bedroom via the parents bedroom window, as viewed by PS Bews, PC Myall and Jeremy Bamber himself, during a recce' of the farmhouse - the prosecution had a duty of care to deal with this feature in the case, and produce evidence to negate its impact upon their own case!
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bump
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Jeremy Bamber could not have influenced the prosecution's decision to fail to provide any explanation at all regarding the sighting of the person who had been seen moving around inside the parents bedroom via the parents bedroom window, as viewed by PS Bews, PC Myall and Jeremy Bamber himself, during a recce' of the farmhouse - the prosecution had a duty of care to deal with this feature in the case, and produce evidence to negate its impact upon their own case!
Yeh! duty of care when JEREMY'S defence Lawyer put words in BEWS'S mouth (what a Numpty):
"Trick of the Light"
btw.
greetings to all our friends from all over the World.
Stephen the world is watching.