Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Adam on May 27, 2016, 12:54:PM
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The forensic evidence shows 100% that the silencer was on the rifle during the massacre -
Aga paint.
Human blood. Almost certainly Sheila's.
No back splatter on the rifle end. Although there were several contact shots.
While there are a lot of reasons why Bamber would use a silencer. There are a lot of reasons why the opposite is true for Sheila.
Reasons why Sheila would not use the silencer:
Bamber said he left the rifle without the silencer on.
The available rifle was fully loaded and ready for a spontaneous shooting. It did not have a silencer attached.
Sheila may not know how to put the silencer on.
Sheila may not know how to take the silencer off.
Sheila would not want to put the silencer on. It was not a silent execution attempt and Neville was awake.
Sheila would not have time to put the silencer on. Neville was awake.
Sheila would not have put the silencer back into a box and then into a cupboard.
Sheila could not shoot herself with the silencer on.
If the silencer was on the rifle, Sheila would have left it on to burn Neville's back.
If the silencer was on, Sheila would have taken it off and left it next to her prior to shooting herself.
If Sheila could not take the silencer off, she would have used another rifle to kill herself. Or stayed alive.
Sheila would not have time to take the silencer off and put it away. Together with everything else she was supposed to have done between Neville's call and the police arriving.
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Good points Adam. Anyone who believes Sheila could have done it are in total denial because the evidence speaks for itself. Unfortunately for Jeremy Bamber however he spun the 'Sheila dun it' story to such an extent that it had to be him or her. Silly boy...shot himself in the foot big time! ;D
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Good points Adam. Anyone who believes Sheila could have done it are in total denial because the evidence speaks for itself. Unfortunately for Jeremy Bamber however he spun the 'Sheila dun it' story to such an extent that it had to be him or her. Silly boy...shot himself in the foot big time! ;D
Thanks.
I can't see any situation where Sheila would put the silencer on. It was in the gun cupboard and she was in a rage. Neville was with her and there is no proof she knew how to do it.
If in the beginning she was the only one awake and wanted to commit a silent execution, she could have put the silencer on. Then shot June and Neville in the main bedroom, which is where they were shot. But then Neville wouldn't have been able to phone Bamber.
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Sheila could have used the rifle without silencer then attached it to shoot the children fearing they would wake. Later removing it to facilitate her suicide. How difficult could attaching a silencer be? You just screw it on and off.
When she attached the silencer Neville was already incapacitated or dead.
You can't draw assumptions from Sheila's actions whilst she was psychotic. She may have had, in her mind, perfectly rational reasons for returning the silencer to the gun cupboard. That is one of the definitions of delusion, i.e. Actions that seem logical to her are irrational to a normal person.
Sheila may have had hours to commit the murders if the rifle shots could be heard over the dogs and vehicles arriving and departing, from the end of the driveway.
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Sheila could have used the rifle without silencer then attached it to shoot the children fearing they would wake. Later removing it to facilitate her suicide. How difficult could attaching a silencer be? You just screw it on and off.
When she attached the silencer Neville was already incapacitated or dead.
You can't draw assumptions from Sheila's actions whilst she was psychotic. She may have had, in her mind, perfectly rational reasons for returning the silencer to the gun cupboard. That is one of the definitions of delusion, i.e. Actions that seem logical to her are irrational to a normal person.
Sheila may have had hours to commit the murders if the rifle shots could be heard over the dogs and vehicles arriving and departing, from the end of the driveway.
That's it. After going so crazy that Neville had to ring Bamber, but amazingly not waking anyone else inside WHF, Sheila then shoots/beats and kills Neville and June.
The twins had still not woken but Sheila then decides to put the silencer on so the twins don't wake as they are shot. I don't think there is much chance of the twins waking after they get shot in the head.
How did the aga paint and Sheila's/Neville's/June's blood get into the silencer if it wasn't used during these sections of the massacre ?
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Good points Adam. Anyone who believes Sheila could have done it are in total denial because the evidence speaks for itself. Unfortunately for Jeremy Bamber however he spun the 'Sheila dun it' story to such an extent that it had to be him or her. Silly boy...shot himself in the foot big time! ;D
its what you get john,when one tries to be too clever.you can see why he spun that tale about the call'because he had to be there with police .not only to lead them down the garden path but also to show it couldnt have been me i was outside with police .also pretending seeing movement upstairs, to further reinforce it ;)
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Nobody knows who was asleep/awake. the twins may have woken up but went back to sleep when things quietened down.
Sheila had to be as quiet as possible while shooting the first twin to prevent the other from waking.
The silencer was attached when Sheila was bludgeoning Neville's, possibly already dead body, in the kitchen. She may have imagined his voice taunting her.
As for the blood:
a, It was a mixture of June and Nevilles blood [maybe some of the twins blood too].
b, Sheila abused herself with the silencer.
c, The 'blob of jam' blood of AE's testimony fell or was placed inside.
d, Sheila managed to shoot herself with the silencer on, possibly in or near the gun cupboard, and the bleeding wasn't initially so bad, enabling her to put the silencer away and walk upstairs. Venezis states the blood flow could be halted with the fingers held to the wound.
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Nobody knows who was asleep/awake. the twins may have woken up but went back to sleep when things quietened down.
Sheila had to be as quiet as possible while shooting the first twin to prevent the other from waking.
The silencer was attached when Sheila was bludgeoning Neville's, possibly already dead body, in the kitchen. She may have imagined his voice taunting her.
As for the blood:
a, It was a mixture of June and Nevilles blood [maybe some of the twins blood too].
b, Sheila abused herself with the silencer.
c, The 'blob of jam' blood of AE's testimony fell or was placed inside.
d, Sheila managed to shoot herself with the silencer on, possibly in or near the gun cupboard, and the bleeding wasn't initially so bad, enabling her to put the silencer away and walk upstairs. Venezis states the blood flow could be halted with the fingers held to the wound.
the twins are children .and posed no threat whatso ever to sheila wether awake or asleep.thats assuming sc did it .which is impossible .they would hardly be able to overpower their mother or load a shotgun and shoot her
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Nobody knows who was asleep/awake. the twins may have woken up but went back to sleep when things quietened down.
Sheila had to be as quiet as possible while shooting the first twin to prevent the other from waking.
The silencer was attached when Sheila was bludgeoning Neville's, possibly already dead body, in the kitchen. She may have imagined his voice taunting her.
As for the blood:
a, It was a mixture of June and Nevilles blood [maybe some of the twins blood too].
b, Sheila abused herself with the silencer.
c, The 'blob of jam' blood of AE's testimony fell or was placed inside.
d, Sheila managed to shoot herself with the silencer on, possibly in or near the gun cupboard, and the bleeding wasn't initially so bad, enabling her to put the silencer away and walk upstairs. Venezis states the blood flow could be halted with the fingers held to the wound.
.D. impossible sheila could shoot herself downstairs and walked back to the bedroom .because not a trace of blood down the front of her nightie.its all on the right hand side of her nightie.there is also no blood trail from guncupboad
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Sheila could have used the rifle without silencer then attached it to shoot the children fearing they would wake. Later removing it to facilitate her suicide. How difficult could attaching a silencer be? You just screw it on and off.
When she attached the silencer Neville was already incapacitated or dead.
You can't draw assumptions from Sheila's actions whilst she was psychotic. She may have had, in her mind, perfectly rational reasons for returning the silencer to the gun cupboard. That is one of the definitions of delusion, i.e. Actions that seem logical to her are irrational to a normal person.
Sheila may have had hours to commit the murders if the rifle shots could be heard over the dogs and vehicles arriving and departing, from the end of the driveway.
I agree with that lebaleb,especially about her unscrewing the silencer and putting it back ( with her bloodied hands ) because many of us when we've been thinking of other things have momentarily have put items in places and not realised at first,but with those whose minds are not in normal mode,will do things without thinking.
We've learned that JB had left the rifle minus silencer and sights and as you say,Sheila in her anxious and psychotic mind would have made an attempt at fitting the silencer thinking it would make a difference with the sound.
I've already posted about the silencer having been cross-threaded because of her inability to co-ordinate the right positioning and this skewed silencer on the end of the rifle would have done damage to surrounding areas ( the Aga ) because of her lack of judgement on its extra length which would have proved cumbersome.
There is no doubt in my mind that she'd displayed that of a frenzied and sick person who at the same time had shown the strength of an ox.
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I agree with that lebaleb,especially about her unscrewing the silencer and putting it back ( with her bloodied hands ) because many of us when we've been thinking of other things have momentarily have put items in places and not realised at first,but with those whose minds are not in normal mode,will do things without thinking.
We've learned that JB had left the rifle minus silencer and sights and as you say,Sheila in her anxious and psychotic mind would have made an attempt at fitting the silencer thinking it would make a difference with the sound.
I've already posted about the silencer having been cross-threaded because of her inability to co-ordinate the right positioning and this skewed silencer on the end of the rifle would have done damage to surrounding areas ( the Aga ) because of her lack of judgement on its extra length which would have proved cumbersome.
There is no doubt in my mind that she'd displayed that of a frenzied and sick person who at the same time had shown the strength of an ox.
if she had put it away with her blooded hands ,would there not be blood on the outside of it
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It's good that supporters are saying the silencer was used in the massacre. There is a mountain of evidence showing that is was. The fabrication accusation is preposturous.
I shouldn't be surprised supporters are now saying Sheila used it. Putting it on after Neville and June had been killed. So not to wake the soon to be dead twins. Although now it's being said they did wake and then went back to bed.
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It's good that supporters are saying the silencer was used in the massacre. There is a mountain of evidence showing that is was. The fabrication accusation is preposturous.
I shouldn't be surprised supporters are now saying Sheila used it. Putting it on after Neville and June had been killed. So not to wake the soon to be dead twins. Although now it's being said they did wake and then went back to bed.
its hard to believe adam, they ignore the evidence when it suits them ;)
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what have i ignored that doesnt suit me
Lebaleb's post and mine, the reason for you coming out with that remark. ::)
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Lebaleb's post and mine, the reason for you coming out with that remark. ::)
because theres evidence to show what you two are agreeing on never happened
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because theres evidence to show what you two are agreeing on never happened
Your evidence is non-existant.You only copy what everyone else says,never your OWN thoughts which at least lebaleb and I produce.
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Thanks.
I can't see any situation where Sheila would put the silencer on. It was in the gun cupboard and she was in a rage. Neville was with her and there is no proof she knew how to do it.
If in the beginning she was the only one awake and wanted to commit a silent execution, she could have put the silencer on. Then shot June and Neville in the main bedroom, which is where they were shot. But then Neville wouldn't have been able to phone Bamber.
Nobody who is mentally disturbed to the extent she would want to wipe out her entire family before committing suicide would even contemplate the use of a silencer. It is very clear from the evidence that the killer was working to a preordained plan and knew exactly what he was doing. Sheila Caffell was an innocent victim, of that there can be no doubt. And those who suggest otherwise should be ashamed of themselves.
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Sheila could have used the rifle without silencer then attached it to shoot the children fearing they would wake. Later removing it to facilitate her suicide. How difficult could attaching a silencer be? You just screw it on and off.
When she attached the silencer Neville was already incapacitated or dead.
You can't draw assumptions from Sheila's actions whilst she was psychotic. She may have had, in her mind, perfectly rational reasons for returning the silencer to the gun cupboard. That is one of the definitions of delusion, i.e. Actions that seem logical to her are irrational to a normal person.
Sheila may have had hours to commit the murders if the rifle shots could be heard over the dogs and vehicles arriving and departing, from the end of the driveway.
Nonsense!
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its what you get john,when one tries to be too clever.you can see why he spun that tale about the call'because he had to be there with police .not only to lead them down the garden path but also to show it couldnt have been me i was outside with police .also pretending seeing movement upstairs, to further reinforce it ;)
Correct Sami, we can read Bamber like a book. His plan was so simple that even some of the police like Taff Jones were taken in by it. Unfortunately for him however it took many more shots that he ever anticipated or planned for allowing Nevill to get downstairs and the fight over the kitchen table. That is where his attempt to blame Sheila should have ended but he made the mistake of carrying on regardless. Sheila never fought with Nevill otherwise she would have come off second best.
This case is by no means rocket science but good old fashioned detective work.
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The forensic evidence shows 100% that the silencer was on the rifle during the massacre -
Aga paint.
Human blood. Almost certainly Sheila's.
No back splatter on the rifle end. Although there were several contact shots.
While there are a lot of reasons why Bamber would use a silencer. There are a lot of reasons why the opposite is true for Sheila.
Reasons why Sheila would not use the silencer:
Bamber said he left the rifle without the silencer on.
The available rifle was fully loaded and ready for a spontaneous shooting. It did not have a silencer attached.
Sheila may not know how to put the silencer on.
Sheila may not know how to take the silencer off.
Sheila would not want to put the silencer on. It was not a silent execution attempt and Neville was awake.
Sheila would not have time to put the silencer on. Neville was awake.
Sheila would not have put the silencer back into a box and then into a cupboard.
Sheila could not shoot herself with the silencer on.
If the silencer was on the rifle, Sheila would have left it on to burn Neville's back.
If the silencer was on, Sheila would have taken it off and left it next to her prior to shooting herself.
If Sheila could not take the silencer off, she would have used another rifle to kill herself. Or stayed alive.
Sheila would not have time to take the silencer off and put it away. Together with everything else she was supposed to have done between Neville's call and the police arriving.
You seem to be ignoring the fact that the contact wounds to Sheila's neck show the silencer was not attached. Dr Fowler concluded this while studying the autopsy photos. Plus the experiments in America show a silencer would leave a very different mark, this can even be seen in the crime scene photos we have available but if you look close enough. The CCRC never directly challenged the work of Fowler instead they criticised Dr Fowler for not answering questions that he was not even asked.
(http://s33.postimg.org/j5anw2oi7/muzzlemarks.jpg)
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You seem to be ignoring the fact that the contact wounds to Sheila's neck show the silencer was not attached. Dr Fowler concluded this while studying the autopsy photos. Plus the experiments in America show a silencer would leave a very different mark, this can even be seen in the crime scene photos we have available but if you look close enough. The CCRC never directly challenged the work of Fowler instead they criticised Dr Fowler for not answering questions that he was not even asked.
(http://s33.postimg.org/j5anw2oi7/muzzlemarks.jpg)
That's if they were full contact shots!
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You seem to be ignoring the fact that the contact wounds to Sheila's neck show the silencer was not attached. Dr Fowler concluded this while studying the autopsy photos. Plus the experiments in America show a silencer would leave a very different mark, this can even be seen in the crime scene photos we have available but if you look close enough. The CCRC never directly challenged the work of Fowler instead they criticised Dr Fowler for not answering questions that he was not even asked.
(http://s33.postimg.org/j5anw2oi7/muzzlemarks.jpg)
I am inclined to agree, Bamber most probably had the silencer attached initially in an attempt to mitigate the noise but removed it when he found that the rifle was most ineffective.
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So are you saying that all these people who are presently working in the background ( legals ) for JB are " taken in " by him too ?
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You seem to be ignoring the fact that the contact wounds to Sheila's neck show the silencer was not attached. Dr Fowler concluded this while studying the autopsy photos. Plus the experiments in America show a silencer would leave a very different mark, this can even be seen in the crime scene photos we have available but if you look close enough. The CCRC never directly challenged the work of Fowler instead they criticised Dr Fowler for not answering questions that he was not even asked.
(http://s33.postimg.org/j5anw2oi7/muzzlemarks.jpg)
These look like the pictures which were in the 'new evidence' video.
This video suggests Neville's burn marks were done with the rifle nozzle without the silencer Which I agree with. Thread already created.
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So are you saying that all these people who are presently working in the background ( legals ) for JB are " taken in " by him too ?
Their own personal opinions don't come into it.
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Their own personal opinions don't come into it.
Why not ? If they're all like the guilters on here they're wasting their time then,aren't they,so WHY are they helping ? Not for the good of their health,I'm sure. Or money either.
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So are you saying that all these people who are presently working in the background ( legals ) for JB are " taken in " by him too ?
Undoubtedly, there is a greedy fool born every minute of every day. We know that certain lawyers were and are attracted to this case simply to get their name in the Press and a bit of free publicity but that sort of backfired with one in particular making a grovelling appeal to me recently to remove his/her name from everything associated to Bamber. Seemingly his/her children were beginning to ask awkward questions about the morality of working for a child killer. Maybe some others might want to ponder the same question?
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Correct Sami, we can read Bamber like a book. His plan was so simple that even some of the police like Taff Jones were taken in by it. Unfortunately for him however it took many more shots that he ever anticipated or planned for allowing Nevill to get downstairs and the fight over the kitchen table. That is where his attempt to blame Sheila should have ended but he made the mistake of carrying on regardless. Sheila never fought with Nevill otherwise she would have come off second best.
This case is by no means rocket science but good old fashioned detective work.
excellent post ,john :) ;)
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Undoubtedly, there is a greedy fool born every minute of every day. We know that certain lawyers were and are attracted to this case simply to get their name in the Press and a bit of free publicity but that sort of backfired with one in particular making a grovelling appeal to me recently to remove his name from everything associated to Bamber.
Just one then ? :o
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excellent post ,john :) ;)
Why thank you kind person. I try to do my best.
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Why thank you kind person. I try to do my best.
PMSL,he says that to everyone.
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PMSL,he says that to everyone.
not true ive not said it to supporters ;)
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These look like the pictures which were in the 'new evidence' video.
This video suggests Neville's burn marks were done with the rifle nozzle without the silencer Which I agree with. Thread already created.
No the video suggests no silencer was on the gun when fired, your getting mixed up between two separate experiments both carried out in the states. both experiments were repeated by Philip boyce for the documentary. You agree with one of the experiments but you choose to ignore the other?
https://youtu.be/VeLsEeE0zTI?t=48s (https://youtu.be/VeLsEeE0zTI?t=48s)
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No the video suggests no silencer was on the gun when fired, your getting mixed up between two separate experiments both carried out in the states. both experiments were repeated by Philip boyce for the documentary. You agree with one of the experiments but you choose to ignore the other?
https://youtu.be/VeLsEeE0zTI?t=48s (https://youtu.be/VeLsEeE0zTI?t=48s)
I'm not ignoring anything. I was not aware of another view which you are claiming.
To be honest I will stick with the expert view that one of Sheila's shots was a contact shot. Which is supported by human/Sheila's blood being in the silencer.
The other issue I agree with Bamber. Neville's burn marks were created with the rifle nozzle. He took the silencer off to burn Neville's back and put it away rather than leave it in the kitchen, for obvious reasons. Either that or he realised the rifle was too long for Sheila with the silencer, so took it off upstairs, prior to burning Neville's back. Threads created.
Anyway I'm sure you agree with this thread and my other one from yesterday that the massacre was committed with the silencer on. Which as I said yesterday, is progress from supporters.
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Using a rifle as a suicide weapon it would HAVE to be a contact shot so naturally you're going to have THAT person's blood on the end of the rifle. Also the children's too as well as the others.
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Using a rifle as a suicide weapon it would HAVE to be a contact shot so naturally you're going to have THAT person's blood on the end of the rifle. Also the children's too as well as the others.
There was no blood on the end of the rifle. Only on the end of the silencer.
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There was no blood on the end of the rifle. Only on the end of the silencer.
How do you know that when two rifles had been used that night.? The silencer was a red herring !!
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The Arizonian tests carried out in 2011/2012, set out to attempt to prove that the burn marks to Neville were caused by the rifle being heated up in some manner, and that the sound moderator was not attached at the time.
The evidence was not accepted by the CCRC as being sufficient to allow them to send the case back to appeal.
Before the CCRC made their report, I asked that if we simply accepted that the rifle caused the burn marks and they were caused without the silencer attached, then how does that assist the defence?
The answer that I received was that if the sound moderator was proven not to be attached at that stage, then it would be likely that the sound moderator was not attached at any stage.
I don't personally agree that such evidence, if accepted, points towards that conclusion.
The case put forward by the prosecution claims that Jeremy attempted to conceal the the fact that the sound moderator was used, by removing it after Sheila's murder, hiding it at the back of the gun cupboard and placing items in front of the door blocking it from being opened and further give the impression that it was not involved.
If we accept that the burn marks to Neville were caused by the rifle without moderator attached, then is it not possible, or perhaps even likely, that Jeremy caused the burns after hiding the moderator, as a further attempt to give the impression that the sound moderator was not attached during the murders?
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Personally, I have a hard time imagining the rifle being used to cause the burns. It would have to be very hot to cause such burns and I would have thought the patina on the barrel or the silencer would have been damaged by that.
IMO the poker seems a more likely implement for the job.
What things were placed in front of the gun cupboard? I don't remember reading about that.
I can't imagine Jeremy or anyone else thinking 'I must burn Neville's back with the rifle barrel to make the police believe the silencer was not involved'. Far easier to take the silencer and throw it in the sea or bury it.
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The Arizonian tests carried out in 2011/2012, set out to attempt to prove that the burn marks to Neville were caused by the rifle being heated up in some manner, and that the sound moderator was not attached at the time.
The evidence was not accepted by the CCRC as being sufficient to allow them to send the case back to appeal.
Before the CCRC made their report, I asked that if we simply accepted that the rifle caused the burn marks and they were caused without the silencer attached, then how does that assist the defence?
The answer that I received was that if the sound moderator was proven not to be attached at that stage, then it would be likely that the sound moderator was not attached at any stage.
I don't personally agree that such evidence, if accepted, points towards that conclusion.
The case put forward by the prosecution claims that Jeremy attempted to conceal the the fact that the sound moderator was used, by removing it after Sheila's murder, hiding it at the back of the gun cupboard and placing items in front of the door blocking it from being opened and further give the impression that it was not involved.
If we accept that the burn marks to Neville were caused by the rifle without moderator attached, then is it not possible, or perhaps even likely, that Jeremy caused the burns after hiding the moderator, as a further attempt to give the impression that the sound moderator was not attached during the murders?
Agreed. There have been several threads on the burn marks and Arizona tests.
I didn't know there were also items in front of the gun cupboard door. Why would Sheila want to move items in front of the gun cuoboard after putting the silencer away ?
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Personally, I have a hard time imagining the rifle being used to cause the burns. It would have to be very hot to cause such burns and I would have thought the patina on the barrel or the silencer would have been damaged by that.
IMO the poker seems a more likely implement for the job.
What things were placed in front of the gun cupboard? I don't remember reading about that.
I can't imagine Jeremy or anyone else thinking 'I must burn Neville's back with the rifle barrel to make the police believe the silencer was not involved'. Far easier to take the silencer and throw it in the sea or bury it.
Bamber burned Neville's back to make sure he was dead. Why didn't he do this for everyone ? Obvious reasons but thread available.
Bamber is saying Neville's burn marks were caused by the rifle nozzle.
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The Arizonian tests carried out in 2011/2012, set out to attempt to prove that the burn marks to Neville were caused by the rifle being heated up in some manner, and that the sound moderator was not attached at the time.
The evidence was not accepted by the CCRC as being sufficient to allow them to send the case back to appeal.
Before the CCRC made their report, I asked that if we simply accepted that the rifle caused the burn marks and they were caused without the silencer attached, then how does that assist the defence?
The answer that I received was that if the sound moderator was proven not to be attached at that stage, then it would be likely that the sound moderator was not attached at any stage.
I don't personally agree that such evidence, if accepted, points towards that conclusion.
The case put forward by the prosecution claims that Jeremy attempted to conceal the the fact that the sound moderator was used, by removing it after Sheila's murder, hiding it at the back of the gun cupboard and placing items in front of the door blocking it from being opened and further give the impression that it was not involved.
If we accept that the burn marks to Neville were caused by the rifle without moderator attached, then is it not possible, or perhaps even likely, that Jeremy caused the burns after hiding the moderator, as a further attempt to give the impression that the sound moderator was not attached during the murders?
The second round of experiments in the US in 2011, set out to prove that the sound moderator was not attached when Sheila was shot.
Their conclusion was that Sheila was shot without moderator attached.
During the original investigation it was noted that there was no indication on Sheila's wounds whether the moderator was attached or not.
So we are left with the choice of accepting the US experts conclusions, or not. The CCRC did not accept them.
If the US experts experts conclusions we're accurate in their own right to show that the sound moderator was not attached when Sheila was killed, then what was the point of carrying out the Arizonian burn mark tests?
In isolation they do not assist the defence, and they do not directly assist the other US experts findings.
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PC Birds statements tell us that there were items in front of the gun cupboard blocking access.
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PC Birds statements tell us that there were items in front of the gun cupboard blocking access.
(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1721.0;attach=8312;image)
(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1721.0;attach=8313;image)
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(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1721.0;attach=8312;image)
(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1721.0;attach=8313;image)
Yet in the photographs of the gun cupboard it shows the door is open. Hardly an attempt to conceal anything.
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Well the 2002 appeal said Sheila revieved contact or near contact shots. Wasn't there a mark on her neck suggesting a rifle or silencer contact shot ? I prefer to believe it was a silencer contact shot. Why ? Well her blood is in the silencer !
45. Sheila Caffell was also dressed in her nightwear and bare-footed. She had received two contact or near contact bullet wounds to her throat. The higher of the two wounds would have killed her almost instantaneously. The lower of the two would have been a fatal injury but not one where death would have occurred immediately and a person having suffered such an injury may have been able to stand up and walk around for a little time. The lack of heavy blood staining to Sheila Caffell's nightdress suggested that this had not happened here. The lower of the two injuries must have been the first since it had led to haemorrhaging inside the neck and this would not have occurred to the same extent if the other wound, which would have been immediately fatal, had preceded it. Dr Vanezis gave evidence that the nature of the blood stains to the nightdress suggested that Sheila Caffell was sitting up when she received both injuries. After the second injury she would have immediately fallen back. There was no evidence of any other mark or injury to Sheila Caffell's body such as might be suffered during a fight or in a scuffle.
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I think those burns were caused by a lighted cigar. The circumference would match that of a cigar as I've seen cigarette burns looking just the same but smaller.
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I think those burns were caused by a lighted cigar. The circumference would match that of a cigar as I've seen cigarette burns looking just the same but smaller.
So Sheila was firing Bonnie and Clyde style, was she? A cigar hanging from the corner of her mouth? OR did she perhaps, run back upstairs to get them from a hiding place, OR was she in the habit of smoking them all the time when she was at the farm? I don't recall any mention of cigars/stubs being found, do you?
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Yet in the photographs of the gun cupboard it shows the door is open. Hardly an attempt to conceal anything.
The image you are referring to, with the shotgun leaning against wall was not taken by Bird as part of the crime scene images.
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So Sheila was firing Bonnie and Clyde style, was she? A cigar hanging from the corner of her mouth? OR did she perhaps, run back upstairs to get them from a hiding place, OR was she in the habit of smoking them all the time when she was at the farm? I don't recall any mention of cigars/stubs being found, do you?
Now you're being silly. Sheila was partial to a cigar.Wasn't she once found lolling in a chair,puffing away on one when the social worker called ?
She'd very obviously been pausing in between shoots to have burned her father's arm. I'd have said he was either dead at the time,or certainly close to it because a burn blisters in no time except when a person is close to death or dead when that function is no longer possible.
Cigar stubs by there very nature take up room on an ash tray,so naturally with an Aga in front of you,you'd dispose of them that way wouldn't you ?
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Now you're being silly. Sheila was partial to a cigar.Wasn't she once found lolling in a chair,puffing away on one when the social worker called ?
She'd very obviously been pausing in between shoots to have burned her father's arm. I'd have said he was either dead at the time,or certainly close to it because a burn blisters in no time except when a person is close to death or dead when that function is no longer possible.
Cigar stubs by there very nature take up room on an ash tray,so naturally with an Aga in front of you,you'd dispose of them that way wouldn't you ?
Bamber, the Arizona experts and the 2002 appeal must be wrong then.
The burn marks were from a cigar. Which had the exact same shape as a rifle/silencer nozzle.
I don't know why you are bringing up cigars. Even guilters such as me are agreeing the burn marks may have been caused with the rifle minus the silencer. However that in no way negates the mountain of forensic evidence that shows the silencer was used for the massacre.
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Don't forget too that Sheila had leaned and relied on her father a lot for support. We don't know how many times she'd ring him during the night/early hours just to talk to him,but when that support ended as June became ill again,Sheila must have felt as though he no longer cared because he was now offering his support in helping his wife. Neville would have felt like the go-between that night as heated discussions were going on and had he realised that the situation was to get worse,he should have rang for a doctor,but it was too late.
Sally Pook,a reporter at that time,for the Telegraph had said that when Neville rang for the police he'd told them that Sheila was shooting the family. Was this information from the police ??
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The image you are referring to, with the shotgun leaning against wall was not taken by Bird as part of the crime scene images.
Who took that one?