Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Adam on January 06, 2016, 08:31:AM
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She was Bamber's girlfriend.
The police were treating it as murder/suicide.
Bamber was 'terribly confident'.
She loved Bamber.
She was in shock.
She was 20 years old.
She was not asked by the police about the possibility it was Bamber.
She (apparently) wanted to be the lady of the manor.
She refused to believe Bamber's claim about MM. As knew Bamber didn't have £2,000.
She felt if MM didn't do it, her accusation would collapse.
She would get into trouble if not believed. Perhaps charged which could effect her teaching career.
She had no friends or family to discuss the issue with and give her advice.
Bamber would leave her if she accused him.
She was grieving.
She wanted to let relatives grieve rather than make claims about a grieving Bamber.
She could approach the police at a more appropriate time.
If Bamber was guilty, the police would find out for themselves. She can engage if approached in the future.
Bamber was around and there was a lot of commotion.
Her WS was short. What's on it is true and not disputed.
She was worried about being implicated, knowing about Bamber's hatred and different plans. Again maybe effecting her teaching career.
Stan Jones said he should have pushed her more.
She wanted to assist in other ways. Identifying the bodies. Consoling the relatives.
She planned to speak to the police privately within a few days. This turned into a month as Bamber whisked her around England and Amsterdam.
There was no suggestion Bamber was the killer. The press were reporting it as murder/suicide.
Julie said on television that Bamber told her 'there was nothing she could have done to prevent it, and nothing she could do now'.
The police hardly spent any time with her. They had more important issues and people to speak to.
If it was Bamber, then he must have covered his tracks. So why bother ?
She had not engaged with Bamber much since the massacre. Being taken to Catford police station, then only being around Bamber when lots of other people were around him. So not able to determine whether, as one poster said, Bamber mentioned MM as a joke.
The relatives were not accusing Bamber.
If Bamber told her about MM after her WS, all she could mention was Bamber's hatred and aborted plans. Which on it's own doesn't make him guilty.
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"She planned to speak to the police privately within a few days. This turned into a month as Bamber whisked her around England and Amsterdam"
Really ? Is that what you believe ?
She went with the police to ID the bodies . Then would have been the time to go to the police. In her OWN statement she said on the night she knew he had done it.
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"She planned to speak to the police privately within a few days. This turned into a month as Bamber whisked her around England and Amsterdam"
Really ? Is that what you believe ?
She went with the police to ID the bodies . Then would have been the time to go to the police. In her OWN statement she said on the night she knew he had done it.
Jan I have never been able to understand how Julie could bring herself to identify the two wee boys if she knew her current boyfriend was responsible for killing them one would have thought seeing the boys would have driven her straight to the police to tell them what she knew
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what sort of person does that.
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Jan I have never been able to understand how Julie could bring herself to identify the two wee boys if she knew her current boyfriend was responsible for killing them one would have thought seeing the boys would have driven her straight to the police to tell them what she knew
Who else was available ?
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Who else was available ?
The relatives ?
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The relatives ?
Why didn't they then ? Apart from the fact the were grieving.
I thought Julie went along with AE ?
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Jan I have never been able to understand how Julie could bring herself to identify the two wee boys if she knew her current boyfriend was responsible for killing them one would have thought seeing the boys would have driven her straight to the police to tell them what she knew
JM didn't know anything at the time. Jeremy would not have been foolish enough to A. Tell her then B. Dump her after telling her.
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JM didn't know anything at the time. Jeremy would not have been foolish enough to A. Tell her then B. Dump her after telling her.
David
I do agree with you or maybe Jan's theory is right she was in on it with him then grassed him up to save herself when she knew the police were suspicious of JB.
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Who else was available ?
Adam
cannot see how that answers my post at all. .
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David
I do agree with you or maybe Jan's theory is right she was in on it with him then grassed him up to save herself when she knew the police were suspicious of JB.
Either way, it shows why her first WS supported Bamber and her second WS is true. She just missed out the bits where she encouraged Bamber. Although supplying him with sleeping pills is encouragement.
Personally my 30 reasons above highlight why she didn't rat on Bamber on day one. And my other thread shows why her WS submitted to court is the truth. I doubt she was expecting Bamber to do anything.
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David
I do agree with you or maybe Jan's theory is right she was in on it with him then grassed him up to save herself when she knew the police were suspicious of JB.
Hi Susan, I agree with you, jan and anyone else who thinks the same. I have thought for quite a while now that it was very possible that JM was in it which is why she knew all about it in the first place but when she saw everything slipping away from her and others usurping her and their relationship falling apart, she cut her losses and turned against him to save herself and before he took her down with him....... but I could be wrong ;D
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Hi Susan, I agree with you, jan and anyone else who thinks the same I have thought for quite a while now that it was very possible that JM was in it which is why she knew all about it in the first place but when she saw everything slipping away from her and others usurping her and their relationship falling apart, she cut her losses and turned against him to save herself and before he took her down with him....... but I could be wrong ;D
Hahaha Maggie we could all be wrong but guess we will never know :))
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Hi Susan, I agree with jan. I have thought for quite a while now that it was very possible that JM was in it which is why she knew all about it in the first place but when she saw everything slipping away from her and others usurping her and their relationship falling apart, she cut her losses and turned against him to save herself and before he took her down with him....... but I could be wrong ;D
Maggie, as I posted on another thread, she may have thought a month was long enough -having taken her into his confidence, involving her in various illegal activities in which she'd given him her full support and loyalty- for him to have made them "official" with a suitably sized ring. When it didn't happen and she suffered the humiliation of hearing him arranging to meet another female, it may have dawned on her that her loyalty was misplaced.
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Maggie, as I posted on another thread, she may have thought a month was long enough -having taken her into his confidence, involving her in various illegal activities in which she'd given him her full support and loyalty- for him to have made them "official" with a suitably sized ring. When it didn't happen and she suffered the humiliation of hearing him arranging to meet another female, it may have dawned on her that her loyalty was misplaced.
I remember ages ago when I was convinced JB was innocent, either Vic or Hartley posted up that 'they were a couple of toe rags' or something very like that.
The phrase stuck in my brain and developed over time. I think that is very possibly the truth, although I just MAY be wrong and am always open to new developments.
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Had they been in in together JM could have given Jeremy an alibi.
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Had they been in in together JM could have given Jeremy an alibi.
That's right. She could have stayed at his cottage on the night.
If she didn't believe he would do it, she was already indirectly involved. This was Bamber's choice, both pre and post massacre. He told her about his plans and reasons why. Then arranged her to be brought over to him straight after the massacre.
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Had they been in in together JM could have given Jeremy an alibi.
Hi lebaleb
that is a good point one which I had not thought of.
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Had they been in in together JM could have given Jeremy an alibi.
As far as she was able, from her remove in Lewisham, she did exactly that. I don't imagine she had a word for word script and it would have been foolish to tell them what she didn't know. Because she hadn't been at the cottage she could support him without directly implicating herself.
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That's right. She could have stayed at his cottage on the night.
If she didn't believe he would do it, she was already indirectly involved. This was Bamber's choice, both pre and post massacre. He told her about his plans and reasons why. Then arranged her to be brought over to him straight after the massacre.
We don't know she could have stayed at his cottage that night. She may have had to be in London because of college, teaching practice or whatever was happening in her life. She may not have wanted to be so directly involved. Imo JM could look after herself and make her own decisions, I don't believe she was easily influenced as some maintain, think she knew exactly what she wanted and was determined to get it.
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As far as she was able, from her remove in Lewisham, she did exactly that. I don't imagine she had a word for word script and it would have been foolish to tell them what she didn't know. Because she hadn't been at the cottage she could support him without directly implicating herself.
I agree with this Jane.
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We don't know she could have stayed at his cottage that night. She may have had to be in London because of college, teaching practice or whatever was happening in her life. She may not have wanted to be so directly involved. Imo JM could look after herself and make her own decisions, I don't believe she was easily influenced as some maintain, think she knew exactly what she wanted and was determined to get it.
I'm inclined to agree with that, Maggie. She may have thought that staying at the cottage was a "support" too far.
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I'm inclined to agree with that, Maggie. She may have thought that staying at the cottage was a "support" too far.
Think she would always watch her own back, always a get out clause for Julie. Imo
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We don't know she could have stayed at his cottage that night. She may have had to be in London because of college, teaching practice or whatever was happening in her life. She may not have wanted to be so directly involved. Imo JM could look after herself and make her own decisions, I don't believe she was easily influenced as some maintain, think she knew exactly what she wanted and was determined to get it.
She could have cancelled college. There was £435,000 at stake. Something she was apparently desperate to get her hands on.
She had not heard from Bamber for three days prior to their 10pm conversation. Bamber only had a short window of opportunity. So it was probably quite a spur of the moment 'now or never' decision from him. After another hard day.
If Bamber had asked Julie to stay with him as an alibi, she would have mentioned it in her WS. He may have sussed her out, but knew she would say 'no'. Or believed she would crack if pressurised by the police.
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She could have cancelled college. There was £435,000 at stake. Something she was apparently desperate to get her hands on.
She had not heard from Bamber for three days prior to their 10pm conversation. Bamber only had a short window of opportunity. So it was probably quite a spur of the moment 'now or never' decision from him.
If Bamber had asked Julie to stay with him as an alibi., would have mentioned it in her WS. He may have sussed her out, but knew she would say 'no'. Or believed she would crack if pressurised by the police.
You don't know she could have cancelled college without a really good excuse and it wouldn't have been wise to draw attention to herself at that time.
How do you know they hadn't been in touch for 3 days, can you prove it?
If she was part of the plan, why would she tell anyone JB had asked her to be his alibi? If she was part of the plan it would surely have been a joint decision that he called her when he did.
You seem determined to make JM a victim but I don't believe she was ever a victim. She wasn't a victim in that NOTW interview however much she behaved like one when being questioned by the defence.
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You don't know she could have cancelled college without a really good excuse and it wouldn't have been wise to draw attention to herself at that time.
How do you know they hadn't been in touch for 3 days, can you prove it?
It's in her first WS. There is no reason for her to lie about that. It has never been disputed.
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You don't know she could have cancelled college without a really good excuse and it wouldn't have been wise to draw attention to herself at that time.
How do you know they hadn't been in touch for 3 days, can you prove it?
If she was part of the plan, why would she tell anyone JB had asked her to be his alibi? If she was part of the plan it would surely have been a joint decision that he called her when he did.
You seem determined to make JM a victim but I don't believe she was ever a victim. She wasn't a victim in that NOTW interview however much she behaved like one when being questioned by the defence.
Hahaha. There's a mercenary streak in Adam which speaks very loudly.
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It's in her first WS. There is no reason for her to lie about that. It has never been disputed.
How do you know she isn't lying or that there was no reason for her to lie? You are making assumptions Adam.
Sorry I have added to the post you have quoted.
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The advantage of Bamber having Julie stay, is she can provide a cast iron alibi. Julie would be scared to speak out as he could then claim she also attended the massacre.
The disadvantage is she may crack after a bit of police pressure. Bamber can't claim she is lying, as she is also implicating herself.
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The advantage of Bamber having Julie stay, is she can provide a cast iron alibi. Julie would be scared to speak out as he could then claim she also attended the massacre.
The disadvantage is she may crack after a bit of police pressure. Bamber can't claim she is lying, as she is also implicating herself.
Adam the above post is complete assumption. You have no idea if she would have been 'scared' or 'cracked' these are you assumptions and not fact. We have no idea what Jeremy or Julie thought or felt at that time.
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How do you know she isn't lying or that there was no reason for her to lie? You are making assumptions Adam.
Sorry I have added to the quote in the above post.
Why would she lie about not hearing from Bamber for three days. It can be checked when she went home. Bamber's never disputed it.
Bamber was working long hours, Julie was at college. It's no big deal that a young couple wouldn't speak for three days. However in this instance it shows they were not planning the massacre together until the last minute.
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Adam the above post is complete assumption. You have no idea if she would have been 'scared' or 'cracked' these are you assumptions and not fact. We have no idea what Jeremy or Julie thought or felt at that time.
She wasn't too "scared" to organize a cheque fraud of sell drugs.
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Adam the above post is complete assumption. You have no idea if she would have been 'scared' or 'cracked' these are you assumptions and not fact. We have no idea what Jeremy or Julie thought or felt at that time.
I am allowed to assume. Thanks.
I assume Julie would be scared of speaking out, and having Bamber trying to bring her down with him. Most people are scared of 25 years inside. I assume.
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I am allowed to assume. Thanks.
I assume Julie would be scared of speaking out, and having Bamber trying to bring her down with him. Most people are scared of 25 years inside. I assume.
Only if the believe they'll be caught.
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Julie would be taking a big risk in staying with him on the night.
Bamber may use her and then discard her when he feels he's clear. Julie couldn't go to the police as Bamber, if going down, will claim Julie helped him at WHF.
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Julie would be taking a big risk in staying with him on the night.
Bamber may use her and then discard her when he feels he's clear. Julie couldn't go to the police as Bamber, if going down, will claim Julie helped him.
He can't say she helped him if he claims innocence.
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He can't say she helped him if he claims innocence.
And it would hardly be a new thing for a fella to use someone until they're of no further use.
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He can't say she helped him if he claims innocence.
Yes it would be messy.
Bamber could claim innocence. Not implicating Julie and claiming she is doing this because he 'jilted her'. Which would mean if he is charged and convicted, Julie would be free. Julie would be even more mad in attempting this revenge, as it is also potentially implicating herself in a murder charge.
Or he could confess and claim Julie went with him. An eye for an eye.
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Yes it would be messy.
Bamber could claim innocence. Not implicating Julie and claiming she is doing this because he 'jilted her'. Which would mean if he is charged and convicted, Julie would be free. Julie would be even more mad in attempting this revenge, as it is also implicating herself.
Or he could confess and claim Julie went with him. An eye for an eye.
But other than Jeremy being charged and convicted, it's entirely hypothetical.
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Yes it would be messy.
Bamber could claim innocence. Not implicating Julie and claiming she is doing this because he 'jilted her'. Which would mean if he is charged and convicted, Julie would be free. Julie would be even more mad in attempting this revenge, as it is also implicating herself.
Or he could confess and claim Julie went with him. An eye for an eye.
He could have done various but he would have had to prove she was involved which would be very difficult if not impossible, so he claimed innocence and she went free. He probably decided on balance claiming innocence gives him some chance of getting out whereas accusing her of being involved will ensure he's banged up forever.
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Yes it would be messy.
Bamber could claim innocence. Not implicating Julie and claiming she is doing this because he 'jilted her'. Which would mean if he is charged and convicted, Julie would be free. Julie would be even more mad in attempting this revenge, as it is also potentially implicating herself in a murder charge.
Or he could confess and claim Julie went with him. An eye for an eye.
Well as even some of the guilters think he thinks and believes he is innocent because he is ill himself - so that's not going to happen is it?
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Well as even some of the guilters think he thinks and believes he is innocent because he is ill himself - so that's not going to happen is it?
(Just to clarify) - I don't think he's ill and think he knows exactly what he did.
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(Just to clarify) - I don't think he's ill and think he knows exactly what he did.
yes I did say some
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Well as even some of the guilters think he thinks and believes he is innocent because he is ill himself - so that's not going to happen is it?
Who thinks that? I suppose it is an interesting thought. I believe he tries to repress as much as possible, in order to act 'innocent' which is why his innocent act comes off so poorly, because he doesn't know HOW he should be feeling/speaking only how he THINKS he should be. But I think he knows damn well what he did, which is why he attempts to control the areas his supporters hammer away at, he knows where the police investigation didn't get his method perfectly.
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Who thinks that? I suppose it is an interesting thought. I believe he tries to repress as much as possible, in order to act 'innocent' which is why his innocent act comes off so poorly, because he doesn't know HOW he should be feeling/speaking only how he THINKS he should be. But I think he knows damn well what he did, which is why he attempts to control the areas his supporters hammer away at, he knows where the police investigation didn't get his method perfectly.
Its called dissociative amnesia.
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Who thinks that? I suppose it is an interesting thought. I believe he tries to repress as much as possible, in order to act 'innocent' which is why his innocent act comes off so poorly, because he doesn't know HOW he should be feeling/speaking only how he THINKS he should be. But I think he knows damn well what he did, which is why he attempts to control the areas his supporters hammer away at, he knows where the police investigation didn't get his method perfectly.
I'm with you, he knows EXACTLY what he did.
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I'm with you, he knows EXACTLY what he did.
I suppose he must know exactly what he did... and what he didn't do.
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I suppose he must know exactly what he did... and what he didn't do.
Of course - he did kill the family, he didn't answer a call from his father.
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Of course - he did kill the family, he didn't answer a call from his father.
Or vice versa.
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I'm with you, he knows EXACTLY what he did.
He would have done if he'd DONE it.
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Of course - he did kill the family, he didn't answer a call from his father.
You sound very much as though you're now convincing yourself, however positive the next outcome is going to be.
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You sound very much as though you're now convincing yourself, however positive the next outcome is going to be.
Caroline was convinced of his guilt some time ago.
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Caroline was convinced of his guilt some time ago.
That's correct.