Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: David1819 on October 12, 2015, 07:14:PM
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It seems the campaign team need just 84 signatures to reach the 1000 milestone. Then what? is this actually going achieve anything?
https://www.change.org/p/michael-gove-secretary-of-state-for-justice-essex-police-release-all-documents-withheld-under-pii-to-jeremy-bamber-s-legal-defence (https://www.change.org/p/michael-gove-secretary-of-state-for-justice-essex-police-release-all-documents-withheld-under-pii-to-jeremy-bamber-s-legal-defence)
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well thats good going.
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Hmm, 1000 out of 53 million. That's loads, isn't it.
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' The public have a right to insist that they are released to his Defence Counsel forthwith so that a fresh appeal can be lodged on Jeremy’s behalf '.
So they are saying they have currently not got enough to make a forth appeal. As I said is the likely situation yesterday.
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Hmm, 1000 out of 53 million. That's loads, isn't it.
well certanly loads more than i expected.
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They are claiming, (without evidence) that there are withheld documents. This refutes Caroline, Lookout, Jan, Jeremy and CAL.
Now they are saying the withheld documents are so important he will be able to make a 4th appeal with them.
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'Original handwritten logs and statements written by Malcolm Bonnett & PC West relating to Jeremy’s father calling the Police between 03:00am and 03:30 am saying his daughter had gone berserk with the gun'.
There still banging on about Neville calling the police. Although didn't submit it in the 2012 CCRC application.
Are photocopies of the original hand written notes available ? What difference would having the original make ?
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' The public have a right to insist that they are released to his Defence Counsel forthwith so that a fresh appeal can be lodged on Jeremy’s behalf '.
So they are saying they have currently not got enough to make a forth appeal. As I said is the likely situation yesterday.
I have signed the petition, not because I particularly believe information is being withheld however I believe any information, of use or not should be released in the name of democracy and freedom of information. There are too many secrets in this country and the more openness we can achieve the better imo.
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'The original situation report radioed in by PS Bews calling out the firearms team because he'd seen Sheila Caffell moving in the house while Jeremy was with police. Also PS Bews and PC Myall’s original witness statements written on the 7th August 1985'.
Bews has said what happened on camera. The campaign team are making things up again.
The raid team were called out for obvious reasons. There is no reason why Sheila would (conveniently) stay alive until the raid team entered WHF.
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I have signed the petition, not because I particularly believe information is being withheld however I believe any information, of use or not should be released in the name of democracy and freedom of information. There are too many secrets in this country and the more openness we can achieve the better imo.
Most people will sign it for the same reason. Most will not know much about the case.
They just assume documents are being withheld because the campaign team claim so.
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Also required, the audio recordings of the open phone line at White House Farm recording the raid on the house by the Firearms Officers who broke in at 07:39am.
This must be to hear the police bullets being fired into Sheila.
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5. The original handwritten statements from first case investigation number SC/688/85 including those written by the raid team and all fifty-four (54) people who entered the house on the 7th August 1985.
Number five is very significant. I believe there are two case files. Jeremy Bamber case file and Shelia Caffell case file. one month after the murders a whole new case was opened
10. Original forensic report by Renshaw referring to the blood in the sound moderator as identical to beneficiary of the Bamber estate Robert Boutflour, one of the relatives who found it after police searched the house and 'missed it'.
That sounds interesting.
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10. Original forensic report by Renshaw referring to the blood in the sound moderator as identical to beneficiary of the Bamber estate Robert Boutflour, one of the relatives who found it after police searched the house and 'missed it'.
How does the Campaign Team know these exist if they have not been released ?
It is impossible to recreate the back splatter effect into the moderator. Threads already created.
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'The original situation report radioed in by PS Bews calling out the firearms team because he'd seen Sheila Caffell moving in the house while Jeremy was with police. Also PS Bews and PC Myall’s original witness statements written on the 7th August 1985'.
Bews has said what happened on camera. The campaign team are making things up again.
The raid team were called out for obvious reasons. There is no reason why Sheila would (conveniently) stay alive until the raid team entered WHF.
Adam, surely you can at least see why people question Bews' explanation because everyone of them is different. You cannot say 'there is no reason why Sheila would ..... stay alive ....' There may be no 'proof' but I am sure if you wanted to you could give us a list of fifty 'reasons' why Sheila stayed alive until the raid team entered.
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Basically Bamber is insinuating the usual suspects -
The police, Julie and the relatives.
He tried it with the released documents but it didn't work.
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Adam, surely you can at least see why people question Bews' explanation because everyone of them is different. You cannot say 'there is no reason why Sheila would ..... stay alive ....' There may be no 'proof' but I am sure if you wanted to you could give us a list of fifty 'reasons' why Sheila stayed alive until the raid team entered.
There is a thread on why would Sheila stay alive until after the raid team entered WHF.
The only reason given was that no one can predict how someone in such a state would act.
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http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6753.msg311209.html#msg311209
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There is a thread on why would Sheila stay alive until after the raid team entered WHF.
The only reason given was that no one can predict how someone in such a state would act.
Which is the only reason and it covers many more possibilities..
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The Campaign team say Sheila was alive until the raid team entered WHF. Although have never said why she did this.
The police say Sheila was dead before anyone arrived at WHF. Because Bamber had killed her.
The police's view is backed up with evidence. The Campaign Teams view is backed up with nothing.
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I have signed the petition, not because I particularly believe information is being withheld however I believe any information, of use or not should be released in the name of democracy and freedom of information. There are too many secrets in this country and the more openness we can achieve the better imo.
Me too Maggie - I think it's time to draw a line under claims of withheld documents and I can see no reason why PII was ever applied to case files in this instance. I did however also make it clear that I thought he was guilty.
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Me too Maggie - I think it's time to draw a line under claims of withheld documents and I can see no reason why PII was ever applied to case files in this instance. I did however also make it clear that I thought he was guilty.
I saw a tv programme about Peter Tatchell a few years ago and I do admire him. He's been beaten up many times because of his stance about various causes and support of individual rights. His front door is constructed like the door of a safe because it's been kicked in and he's been burgled and threatened so many times. People like him are incredibly brave imo.
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There is a thread on why would Sheila stay alive until after the raid team entered WHF.
The only reason given was that no one can predict how someone in such a state would act.
If Shelia was alive while police began to enter, the only plausible explanation is that she knew there was no good way out it was either death or a lifetime in a psychiatric prison. not exactly hard to work that one out.
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I've signed it 83 times so far. :P
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I've signed it 83 times so far. :P
Is that where you've been this past few weeks? :)
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Another 99,917 times and we can apply for a Judicial Review!!! Come on guys, we can do it. :-\
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Is that where you've been this past few weeks? :)
Yeah, I'm very slow at typing. :D
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I've signed it 83 times so far. :P
Hartley I just beat you I signed 91 ;D ;D ;D
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Hartley I just beat you I signed 91 ;D ;D ;D
Which means, that between the two of us, we are responsible for nearly 20% of the signatures. Yet we equate to only 0.000003773584% of the population. Good work I think. :)
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5. The original handwritten statements from first case investigation number SC/688/85 including those written by the raid team and all fifty-four (54) people who entered the house on the 7th August 1985.
Number five is very significant. I believe there are two case files. Jeremy Bamber case file and Shelia Caffell case file. one month after the murders a whole new case was opened
10. Original forensic report by Renshaw referring to the blood in the sound moderator as identical to beneficiary of the Bamber estate Robert Boutflour, one of the relatives who found it after police searched the house and 'missed it'.
That sounds interesting.
Was RWB's blood group A.? Because June's was A too which would tie up as she was there not RWB.
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Was RWB's blood group A.? Because June's was A too which would tie up as she was there not RWB.
I think I remember reading on the forum a few years ago that RWB's blood group was the same as Sheila's, anyone else seen this??
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Which means, that between the two of us, we are responsible for nearly 20% of the signatures. Yet we equate to only 0.000003773584% of the population. Good work I think. :)
Impressive ;D
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I think I remember reading on the forum a few years ago that RWB's blood group was the same as Sheila's, anyone else seen this??
Maggie I have read that on the forum or in a book cannot remember where sure Hartley will know ;D
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Which means, that between the two of us, we are responsible for nearly 20% of the signatures. Yet we equate to only 0.000003773584% of the population. Good work I think. :)
you can only sign it once
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Maggie I have read that on the forum or in a book cannot remember where sure Hartley will know ;D
Nah, reckon Scip will know though. ;D
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Impressive ;D
Maggie myself and Hartley are the business ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Nah, reckon Scip will know though. ;D
Hartley methinks you are kidding me on ;D but you are right again Scip will know or Adam ;D
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you can only sign it once
David think you are kidding me now ;D ;D ;D
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There were 2 different blood groups on Sheila's nightdress------A and O.
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There were 2 different blood groups on Sheila's nightdress------A and O.
Show me please.
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Show me please.
Mike has the lab records from when the test/s were carried out in September 1985. Lab item No.19.
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Mike has the lab records from when the test/s were carried out in September 1985. Lab item No.19.
Lookout, I don't recall seeing that. Where did you get it from?
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Mike has the lab records from when the test/s were carried out in September 1985. Lab item No.19.
Along with a photograph of Shiela on the bed, shit, where did it go, it was here a minute ago. ???
Don't be so naive Lookout.
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Maggie I have read that on the forum or in a book cannot remember where sure Hartley will know ;D
Dont believe it was a book am sure I read it way before I read any of the books. Think it was on the forum but may have only been a post??
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Dont believe it was a book am sure I read it way before I read any of the books. Think it was on the forum but may have only been a post??
Maggie think you could be right or maybe wrong hahahaha
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Maggie think you could be right or maybe wrong hahahaha
Think it could be one or t'other ;D ;D ;D
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Think it could be one or t'other ;D ;D ;D
Maggie ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D thy could be reet ;D
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10. Original forensic report by Renshaw referring to the blood in the sound moderator as identical to beneficiary of the Bamber estate Robert Boutflour, one of the relatives who found it after police searched the house and 'missed it'.
How does the Campaign Team know these exist if they have not been released ?
One could always ask Dr Renshaw himself if he did make such a report
http://www.expertsearch.co.uk/graham.renshaw (http://www.expertsearch.co.uk/graham.renshaw)
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One could always ask Dr Renshaw himself if he did make such a report
http://www.expertsearch.co.uk/graham.renshaw (http://www.expertsearch.co.uk/graham.renshaw)
Or, you could ask the person making the claim to show their source of information.
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Or, you could ask the person making the claim to show their source of information.
I don't think you could get more reliable than a yes/no answer from the alleged author of the report itself ::)
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I don't think you could get more reliable than a yes/no answer from the alleged author of the report itself ::)
I think the first place to look, would be at the person making the allegation. On what basis, with what evidence?
If I accuse Boris Johnson of dressing up as a Martian on Thursday afternoons, you would ask me what proof I had before writing him a letter to ask if it was true. Although most people would simply accept it as a very likely and normal thing for Boris to do. :P
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I think the first place to look, would be at the person making the allegation. On what basis, with what evidence?
If I accuse Boris Johnson of dressing up as a Martian on Thursday afternoons, you would ask me what proof I had before writing him a letter to ask if it was true. Although most people would simply accept it as a very likely and normal thing for Boris to do. :P
This is a different situation regarding withheld documents so if its alleged that a report written by expert A is being withheld. The question was how can they know this exists and my answer was ask expert A himself if he ever made such a report, His answer would be conclusive, whereby the source of the alleged claim of a withheld report will not be conclusive
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This is a different situation regarding withheld documents so if its alleged that a report written by expert A is being withheld. The question was how can they know this exists and my answer was ask expert A himself if he ever made such a report, His answer would be conclusive, whereby the source of the alleged claim of a withheld report will not be conclusive
I fear you have fallen for a trap.
I think that before you even entertain the idea of such an allegation or claim, you should seek the justification of the claim from the person making it.
Why would the person making the claim, be reluctant to quantify their allegations?
The person making the claim, is surely more accessible in the first instance.
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Me too Maggie - I think it's time to draw a line under claims of withheld documents and I can see no reason why PII was ever applied to case files in this instance. I did however also make it clear that I thought he was guilty.
I thought Bamber told you he had everything.
There will never be a line drawn under it. The Campaign Team will always claim there are outstanding documents.
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I've signed it 83 times so far. :P
That's a good point. Can you sign it multiple times ?
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One could always ask Dr Renshaw himself if he did make such a report
http://www.expertsearch.co.uk/graham.renshaw (http://www.expertsearch.co.uk/graham.renshaw)
Why wait for the report ? He could just give them a new one.
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The millions of documents released have been strong enough to get a conviction and result in two failed appeals and one dismissed CCRC application.
It seems there is now not enough information left to manipulate and make a forth appeal. So to keep the campaign in the public eye they are claiming there are withheld documents. Again.
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The ten apparent unreleased documents, either in isolation, or together would certainly help Bamber make a forth appeal.
It's not surprising the police have refused to release these documents. And even more surprising they have not been destroyed.
It's lucky the campaign team know about these withheld documents and can appeal to get them released. It seems Jeremy was right all along. The police, relatives and Julie worked together to convict Bamber.
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That's a good point. Can you sign it multiple times ?
No
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Why wait for the report ? He could just give them a new one.
Doubt his memory could recollect his work from 30 years ago
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No
Of course you can.
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I am not surprised the police are withholding evidence. Only four points of the ten withheld pieces of evidence apparently highlight -
Neville phoned the police.
Julie is a 5x criminal and was coerced to testify to avoid prosecution.
Bews saw a person moving inside WHF.
The relatives, perhaps working with the police and lab technicians could have expertly put RB's blood into the silencer.
God knows what the other six points will highlight. Makes me wonder why the police changed stance after a month. Oh yes it was those greedy relatives.
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Multiple ways to easily sign it multiple times, sadly.
Some of the comments are outlandish. ;D
Although I agree with the sentiment that everything should be released to him - to shut his supporters and his nasty self up and to stop him using it as a propaganda tool.
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There were 2 different blood groups on Sheila's nightdress------A and O.
It's on page 19 of the HOLAB report.
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Hayward who did the blood testing/grouping was no longer a member/employee of the Crown during commencement of Jeremy's trial. The man had omitted a lot of information regarding the silencer/moderator and had been incorrect on his findings from the outset. Neither the Judge nor the Jury at trial knew the half of it.
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What Hayward hadn't made clear was the fact that he'd stated that the blood found on the moderator he'd misinterpreted as that which belonged to Sheila and RWB instead of it having been an intimate mixture of that of June and Neville, as in accordance with the type of tests he took. A " flake " which was found would not have been typed as being Sheila's blood, which was wrongly processed,but that of a mixture. A flake of blood did NOT come from the one person,which had been named as Sheila.
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If the jury had heard/known that the bloodstain on the silencer was a mixture of June and Neville Bamber's,then there'd have been no argument and certainly no trial,if proper procedures regarding the testing had been done to the specifications of scientific approaches to an investigation. Disgraceful !!
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If the jury had heard/known that the bloodstain on the silencer was a mixture of June and Neville Bamber's,then there'd have been no argument and certainly no trial,if proper procedures regarding the testing had been done to the specifications of scientific approaches to an investigation. Disgraceful !!
This was discussed at the appeal and was kicked out. However, if true, it's even WORSE for Jeremy because that means the silencer WAS used and the fact is, that if Sheila were guilty, she wouldn't have KNOWN the rifle has a silencer, let alone attached it before killing the family and she certainly wouldn't have put it back before killing herself. If you're going to back this notion, you need to think what it actually means in respect to Jeremy's involvement.
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If the jury had heard/known that the bloodstain on the silencer was a mixture of June and Neville Bamber's,then there'd have been no argument and certainly no trial,if proper procedures regarding the testing had been done to the specifications of scientific approaches to an investigation. Disgraceful !!
1) There is no evidence that proves all the blood in the moderator was a mixture of June and Nevill's blood. The existing evidence supports that it was not a mixture. Nothing has been found to counter this.
2) Jeremy claimed he left the gun out without the moderator attached. It is not credible that Sheila would have fetched the moderator, attached it, then after killing everyone else removed it and put it away in the closet. So finding their blood is still very bad for Jeremy. That is why ideally they would liek to say it was planted. But they have no evidence to support it being planted.
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If the jury had heard/known that the bloodstain on the silencer was a mixture of June and Neville Bamber's,then there'd have been no argument and certainly no trial,if proper procedures regarding the testing had been done to the specifications of scientific approaches to an investigation. Disgraceful !!
Thread already created.
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http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6489.msg288676.html#msg288676
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Ok so lets just say the CT are making it all up and there is no further evidence to release.
can you tell me Adam what is the point of them asking for it then. Why. what a waste of time, money and labour if that's true
It says that evidence that has not been released has been refered to in other documents which I have said before.
If anything is being withheld then surely for all our sakes it should be released, if only so you can revel in your euphoria of being right.
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Ok so lets just say the CT are making it all up and there is no further evidence to release.
can you tell me Adam what is the point of them asking for it then. Why. what a waste of time, money and labour if that's true
It says that evidence that has not been released has been refered to in other documents which I have said before.
If anything is being withheld then surely for all our sakes it should be released, if only so you can revel in your euphoria of being right.
People say things that aren't true here all of the time - some people just like conspiracy theories.
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Ok so lets just say the CT are making it all up and there is no further evidence to release.
can you tell me Adam what is the point of them asking for it then. Why. what a waste of time, money and labour if that's true
It says that evidence that has not been released has been refered to in other documents which I have said before.
If anything is being withheld then surely for all our sakes it should be released, if only so you can revel in your euphoria of being right.
What do you think happens when a person new to the case reads that information is withheld? They become interested and then stick with the case - and sometimes never come out of the haze. Some people are fooled into believing everything they read- because why would a website that is the OFFICIAL SITE and surely trustable post lies?
They are a campaign team - they are campaigning for Bamber - they need and want attention brought onto Bamber and his case and as you can see - saying the police are withholding information does create a buzz with people who want to believe it.
Why does the OS do anything they do? Why are they claiming they have proof Neville called the police?
Attention. Eyes on the case & pleasing Jeremy Bamber.
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People say things that aren't true here all of the time - some people just like conspiracy theories.
Charles Manson has women who want to marry him! There is no explanation for what people are willing to say and do for people behind bars.
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Charles Manson has women who want to marry him! There is no explanation for what people are willing to say and do for people behind bars.
I can understand that though Mat, he's such a looker!! (JOKE!!!!!! :o :o :o :o) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I can understand that though Mat, he's such a looker!! (JOKE!!!!!! :o :o :o :o) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
If you like the unwashed, unshaven - few teeth and someone who mumbles to themselves then more power to you. ;D
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If you like the unwashed, unshaven - few teeth and someone who mumbles to themselves then more power to you. ;D
I think it's the tattooed forehead that does it!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
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What do you think happens when a person new to the case reads that information is withheld? They become interested and then stick with the case - and sometimes never come out of the haze. Some people are fooled into believing everything they read- because why would a website that is the OFFICIAL SITE and surely trustable post lies?
They are a campaign team - they are campaigning for Bamber - they need and want attention brought onto Bamber and his case and as you can see - saying the police are withholding information does create a buzz with people who want to believe it.
Why does the OS do anything they do? Why are they claiming they have proof Neville called the police?
Attention. Eyes on the case & pleasing Jeremy Bamber.
well is thatvwhat we do on here then. Are we all as mad as they are.
are you seriously saying that these so called professionals havent got anything better to do and support him because of his notoriety.
whatever does that make us then
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well is thatvwhat we do on here then. Are we all as mad as they are.
are you seriously saying that these so called professionals havent got anything better to do and support him because of his notoriety.
whatever does that make us then
I'm talking about the campaign team and the official site.
whatever does that make us then
Big difference in being interested in the case and being willing to campaign for it and post propaganda which is what we're talking about.
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well is thatvwhat we do on here then. Are we all as mad as they are.
are you seriously saying that these so called professionals havent got anything better to do and support him because of his notoriety.
whatever does that make us then
You do realise that those involved with the OS are supporters and they are volunteers. Which 'professionals' are you talking about?
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I'm talking about the campaign team and the official site.
Big difference in being interested in the case and being willing to campaign for it and post propaganda which is what we're talking about.
Look at all the publicity that the Bamber Bake Off generated! Some people think that even bad publicity is good - it was clearly an attempt to get him into the media and it paid off - however distasteful
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Ok so lets just say the CT are making it all up and there is no further evidence to release.
can you tell me Adam what is the point of them asking for it then. Why. what a waste of time, money and labour if that's true
It says that evidence that has not been released has been refered to in other documents which I have said before.
If anything is being withheld then surely for all our sakes it should be released, if only so you can revel in your euphoria of being right.
They know the police won't answer back and know there is not enough for a forth appeal.
So keep Bamber in the public eye by doing this. Bamber encourages with bake off articles etc.
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To be honest I was as confused as everyone else. Which is why I created a recent poll.
CAL, Caroline, Jan, Lookout and Jeremy said all information had been supplied. Even Poppy was saying Bamber had new documents in his possession.
The following week Trudie and Tatchell were on the radio and now there is a petition.
I assumed there may be a small amount of unimportant documents. But the documents listed, if real, would show the biggest cover up in history.
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Poppy on video not only said Bamber had received new documents, she said she had seen them and it clearly showed he was innocent. So appeal then
Now Trudie and others are saying they need more documents in order to make a forth appeal.
Poor Jeremy. His dear ladies are running wild.
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You do realise that those involved with the OS are supporters and they are volunteers. Which 'professionals' are you talking about?
i understood that although they are volunteers many come from professional backgrounds and the lawyers that represent him do it pro bono ( is that the right expression)
Either way if they really are telling lies and not basing what they say on evidence in documents they must all be mad.
im interested in knowing if there is anything else that may throw light on guilt or innocence.
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Charles Manson has women who want to marry him! There is no explanation for what people are willing to say and do for people behind bars.
Simply don't understand these people, what he did to Sharon Tate and her unborn child was so hideous how could any woman go anywhere near him.
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i understood that although they are volunteers many come from professional backgrounds and the lawyers that represent him do it pro bono ( is that the right expression)
Either way if they really are telling lies and not basing what they say on evidence in documents they must all be mad.
im interested in knowing if there is anything else that may throw light on guilt or innocence.
The CT and his lawyers aren't working together. Any prisoner in his situation would be entitled to format a submission for an appeal and as such, a lawyer would represent them. There is nothing special with case.
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Simply don't understand these people, what he did to Sharon Tate and her unborn child was so hideous how could any woman go anywhere near him.
They always go on about his charisma - I'm not seeing it! Although, he didn't actually kill anyone and he wasn't in the house when his crazy disciples killed Sharon Tate and the others - he is clearly a sandwich short.
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Simply don't understand these people, what he did to Sharon Tate and her unborn child was so hideous how could any woman go anywhere near him.
Yeah, me either. It seems they seem him as 'famous' and alot of people are attracted to that. John Lennons killer also has a strange wife & her interviews about him are strange.
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Simply don't understand these people, what he did to Sharon Tate and her unborn child was so hideous how could any woman go anywhere near him.
Because they're as insane as the inmates Maggie. Speaking of insane,I see that thug Creegan who murdered the two female officers has been transferred to Ashworth because he's been found to be insane.Took them long enough to find that out. ::)
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Simply don't understand these people, what he did to Sharon Tate and her unborn child was so hideous how could any woman go anywhere near him.
Maggie IMO these women have mental health issues :'( Look at the ones who wanted to marry Peter Sutcliffe :'(
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Maggie IMO these women have mental health issues :'( Look at the ones who wanted to marry Peter Sutcliffe :'(
I agree, it's hard to fathom. :o
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Yeah, me either. It seems they seem him as 'famous' and alot of people are attracted to that. John Lennons killer also has a strange wife & her interviews about him are strange.
Is Mark Chapman married? He is a paranoid schizophrenic isn't he? I agree with Susan that these women must be mentally ill as well.
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Sutcliffe has been getting some preferential treatment of late. Though " accompanied " he was seen visiting an optician ( I think ) minus any handcuffs ! He even had the brass-neck to incriminate the McCanns with their missing daughter.
He'd demanded all kinds of update technology too.
I'd have put a guillotine in his cell ( with a sensitive catch on it )
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Sutcliffe has been getting some preferential treatment of late. Though " accompanied " he was seen visiting an optician ( I think ) minus any handcuffs ! He even had the brass-neck to incriminate the McCanns with their missing daughter.
He'd demanded all kinds of update technology too.
I'd have put a guillotine in his cell ( with a sensitive catch on it )
Lookout
you never fail to bring a smile to my face ;D
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Lookout
you never fail to bring a smile to my face ;D
I'd have laced his cocoa that's for sure. ;D
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They always go on about his charisma - I'm not seeing it! Although, he didn't actually kill anyone and he wasn't in the house when his crazy disciples killed Sharon Tate and the others - he is clearly a sandwich short.
He was responsible for it all imo Havent seen a photo of him for about 100 years he seemed very insignificant back then but obviously wasn't.
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He was responsible for it all imo Havent seen a photo of him for about 100 years he seemed very insignificant back then but obviously wasn't.
Just seen a photo, he hasn't improved with age :o
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It seems the campaign team need just 84 signatures to reach the 1000 milestone. Then what? is this actually going achieve anything?
https://www.change.org/p/michael-gove-secretary-of-state-for-justice-essex-police-release-all-documents-withheld-under-pii-to-jeremy-bamber-s-legal-defence (https://www.change.org/p/michael-gove-secretary-of-state-for-justice-essex-police-release-all-documents-withheld-under-pii-to-jeremy-bamber-s-legal-defence)
At White House Farm, Tolleshunt D’Arcy, England on the 7th August 1985, five members of the same family were shot dead. They included Nevill Bamber, his wife June Bamber and their daughter Sheila Caffell and Sheila’s twin sons, Nicholas and Daniel Caffell. Based upon evidence the police established the shootings as a case of murder/suicide.
However, Jeremy Bamber, Nevill and June’s son was arrested on the 8th September and released after six days of questioning. He was re-arrested on the 29th September and charged with murder. In October 1986 he was convicted on a 10:2 majority verdict and given a twenty-five year sentence, but the Home Secretary changed this to whole life in 1994.
Disclosure Required
1. Original handwritten logs and statements written by Malcolm Bonnett & PC West relating to Jeremy’s father calling the Police between 03:00am and 03:30 am saying his daughter had gone berserk with the gun.
2. The original situation report radioed in by PS Bews calling out the firearms team because he'd seen Sheila Caffell moving in the house while Jeremy was with police. Also PS Bews and PC Myall’s original witness statements written on the 7th August 1985.
3. The 06.9.85 Report by DI Kenneally stating that the evidence showed Sheila was responsible for murdering her family and then committing suicide.
4. Also required, the audio recordings of the open phone line at White House Farm recording the raid on the house by the Firearms Officers who broke in at 07:39am.
5. The original handwritten statements from first case investigation number SC/688/85 including those written by the raid team and all fifty-four (54) people who entered the house on the 7th August 1985.
6. Interviews from the DI Dickinson Enquiry including those from the forensic scientists Glynis Howard, Malcolm Fletcher, Graham Craddock and Graham Renshaw to discover if they wrote the same things to the Dickinson Enquiry regarding two sound moderators, that they later admitted to during the 1991 C.O.L.P Enquiry.
7. Public Interest Immunity file on Julie Mugford referring to her ‘deal’ with the Crown Prosecution Service in exchange for immunity from prosecution for five criminal offences three of which were unknown to the jury. Also disclosure of the Essex Police file on the £25,000 newspaper deal, agreed to in November/December 1985 (pre-trial) by Julie Mugford’s solicitors.
8. Photographs of all the rooms in white house Farm including those containing firearms such as the main office, and the box room next to the Master bedroom. In November 2001, all the case negatives were in uncut complete strips of ten. By 2011 and their disclosure to Jeremy, someone had cut and removed seventy-seven (77) negative images from these film strips, which left sixteen (16) of them cut up into multiple pieces of two, three and four frames. Disclosure is required of all seventy-seven (77) photographic images.
9. Sheila Caffell's medical/psychiatric records referring to her conversations with her consulting psychiatrist where she informs him she was afraid she would kill her children - as he briefly mentioned at trial. Disclosure of her 1983 and 1985 diaries periods where she suffered severe episodes of psychosis.
10. Original forensic report by Renshaw referring to the blood in the sound moderator as identical to beneficiary of the Bamber estate Robert Boutflour, one of the relatives who found it after police searched the house and 'missed it'.
Jeremy Bamber has been in prison for 30 years. Please sign the Petition. Thank you.
Letter to
Michael Gove - Secretary of State for Justice
Essex Police: Release ALL Documents Withheld under PII to Jeremy Bamber’s Legal Defence Tm
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Charles Manson has women who want to marry him! There is no explanation for what people are willing to say and do for people behind bars.
That's different. In Jeremy's situation people will do allot for hi
If they believe he is innocent, because to them an innocent man is in prison.
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That's different. In Jeremy's situation people will do allot for hi
If they believe he is innocent, because to them an innocent man is in prison.
Very true David, these people no doubt believe in JBs innocence, if they ever discover he is in fact guilty they will be devastated. It's a dreadful abuse for a guilty murderer to swear they are innocent and encourage people to give up their life to fight for them.imo
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Very true David, these people no doubt believe in JBs innocence, if they ever discover he is in fact guilty they will be devastated. It's a dreadful abuse for a guilty murderer to swear they are innocent and encourage people to give up their life to fight for them.imo
But Maggie, WHAT exactly, will it take to convince supporters of his guilt? One suspects that even if he made a full confession they'd find a reason for it OTHER than guilt!!!! Re your comment about "a dreadful abuse." A guilty murderer -albeit one proclaiming innocence- has already shown no compunction about ending lives so is not likely to have a guilt trip about those who give their lives willingly.
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But Maggie, WHAT exactly, will it take to convince supporters of his guilt? One suspects that even if he made a full confession they'd find a reason for it OTHER than guilt!!!! Re your comment about "a dreadful abuse." A guilty murderer -albeit one proclaiming innocence- has already shown no compunction about ending lives so is not likely to have a guilt trip about those who give their lives willingly.
Hi Jane, I am speaking generally not specifically about the JB campaign group.
I'm not saying it comes as a surprise that a guilty murderer who swears innocence is capable of lying for his own ends but such a person, probably a psychopath can be very skilled and convincing.
The realisation they have been manipulated so badly by someone they believed was their friend and in whom they have invested so much (rightly or wrongly) can cause real contradictions and confusion in a supporter's mind as they struggle between two different 'truths' or 'realities'...... I would think??
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I am speaking generally not specifically about the JB campaign group.
I'm not saying it comes as a surprise that a guilty murderer who swears innocence is capable of lying for his own ends but such a person, probably a psychopath can be very skilled and convincing.
The realisation they have been manipulated so badly by someone they believed was their friend and in whom they have invested so much (rightly or wrongly) can cause real contradictions and confusion in a supporter's mind as they struggle between two different 'truths' or 'realities'...... I would think??
Yes, and there's also the part about having been loyal to a cause and feeling guilty and DISloyal for abandoning that cause. Of course, it can be justified but the feelings can't be switched off as easily. I felt very uncomfortable when I first had doubts about Jeremy's innocence which is probably why I held off for so long before I said anything. I suppose I was hoping that some piece of, hitherto, unseen evidence, would convince me that I was mistaken, but the more I allowed myself to look at my suspicions, the more convinced I became of his guilt.
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Yes, and there's also the part about having been loyal to a cause and feeling guilty and DISloyal for abandoning that cause. Of course, it can be justified but the feelings can't be switched off as easily. I felt very uncomfortable when I first had doubts about Jeremy's innocence which is probably why I held off for so long before I said anything. I suppose I was hoping that some piece of, hitherto, unseen evidence, would convince me that I was mistaken, but the more I allowed myself to look at my suspicions, the more convinced I became of his guilt.
Yes, I can understand you Jane, people who stick their necks out because they believe there has been an injustice tend to be people who emote with others and want to help. However, fortunately you hadn't given your all to it, that's when it becomes a really cruel and wicked abuse.
Makes me think of the 'Free George Davis' campaign hundreds of years ago. His wife and her supporters were all over the news as she fought to get him out of prison for a burglary she was convinced he didn't commit. She got him out but only because his conviction was unsafe, he was never cleared of guilt then he reoffended and went back to prison. She died a few years later of cancer, no one can say he killed her but am sure it didn't help. The humiliation alone must have been enough to kill her, wicked man.
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That's different. In Jeremy's situation people will do allot for hi
If they believe he is innocent, because to them an innocent man is in prison.
This is ALL that concerns me,David. I couldn't care less who the man is.
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That's different. In Jeremy's situation people will do allot for hi
If they believe he is innocent, because to them an innocent man is in prison.
It's more about having a purpose in life. Feeling important by engaging with a famous person and getting on TV and the radio.
They may feel powerful that Bamber is reliant on them and appreciates their help.
They may feel there is a slim chance of him being innocent. Especially if they blank out the things that highlight guilt and just use Bamber as the source of information. None post on forums I believe.
They will certainly feel that there is a chance of him getting off on a technicality. Which would mean they can then justify their support to everyone.
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That's different. In Jeremy's situation people will do allot for hi
If they believe he is innocent, because to them an innocent man is in prison.
In some instances I am sure that there are people who truly believe he is innocent, I have no issue with these types working for Bamber and promoting him because they believe there has been a genuine MOJ.
But I do think there are some cases or people supporting Bamber for their own interests and not caring about guilt/innocence, I'd say I've seen a couple of examples here and on twitter.
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It's more about having a purpose in life. Feeling important by engaging with a famous person and getting on TV and the radio.
They may feel powerful that Bamber is reliant on them and appreciates their help.
They may feel there is a slim chance of him being innocent. Especially if they blank out the things that highlight guilt and just use Bamber as the source of information. None post on forums I believe.
They will certainly feel that there is a chance of him getting off on a technicality. Which would mean they can then justify their support to everyone.
But getting off on a technicality doesn't mean that someone is innocent, does it Mat.
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But getting off on a technicality doesn't mean that someone is innocent, does it Mat.
Nope!
(think you meant, Adam!) :)
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Nope!
(think you meant, Adam!) :)
O - M - G!!!!!!! MAT, How COULD I make such a horrible mistake? I am SOOOOOOOOOO sorry xx
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There's no way that Jeremy would accept a technicality. He's mentioned this before.It's no good to him as he wants the truth and his conviction overturned.
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O - M - G!!!!!!! MAT, How COULD I make such a horrible mistake? I am SOOOOOOOOOO sorry xx
all forgiven! ;D ;D
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There's no way that Jeremy would accept a technicality. He's mentioned this before.It's no good to him as he wants the truth and his conviction overturned.
No, because he wouldn't get compensation - he's mentioned that before as well, in quite a lot of detail!!!!! ;D ;D ;D
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There's no way that Jeremy would accept a technicality. He's mentioned this before.It's no good to him as he wants the truth and his conviction overturned.
I can't see him stamping his feet and banging on the prison doors to be readmitted if that ever happened.
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There's no way that Jeremy would accept a technicality. He's mentioned this before.It's no good to him as he wants the truth and his conviction overturned.
He wouldn't get a choice.
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There's no way that Jeremy would accept a technicality. He's mentioned this before.It's no good to him as he wants the truth and his conviction overturned.
He's not got either.
He'll eat what's on his plate.
If released on a technicality he will look for ways to make money. From the media or compensation. Or both. If successful it's doubtful he will continue with a campaign to clear his name completely. Although he will look to keep up his high profile so will have lots of chances to protest his innocence.
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It's more about having a purpose in life. Feeling important by engaging with a famous person and getting on TV and the radio.
They may feel powerful that Bamber is reliant on them and appreciates their help.
They may feel there is a slim chance of him being innocent. Especially if they blank out the things that highlight guilt and just use Bamber as the source of information. None post on forums I believe.
They will certainly feel that there is a chance of him getting off on a technicality. Which would mean they can then justify their support to everyone.
Think that is unfair Adam, many people who support what they believe are MOJs and discover they have ben lied to are committed to the truth and are devastated when they discover they have been conned and used as a smoke screen and to get their hands on their money as well.
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But Maggie, WHAT exactly, will it take to convince supporters of his guilt? One suspects that even if he made a full confession they'd find a reason for it OTHER than guilt!!!! Re your comment about "a dreadful abuse." A guilty murderer -albeit one proclaiming innocence- has already shown no compunction about ending lives so is not likely to have a guilt trip about those who give their lives willingly.
Hi Jane,
I wouldnt be devestated, I would be glad that we knew we had got the right man and that would be that for me.
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Hi Jane,
I wouldnt be devestated, I would be glad that we knew we had got the right man and that would be that for me.
Then it's either very lucky or very sad that you're capable of eliminating emotions as if they have never existed, Notsure.
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I can be like that.It's called shutting off.When a person doesn't mean anything to you,i.e.is not a relative,then I can't see that it matters.
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Then it's either very lucky or very sad that you're capable of eliminating emotions as if they have never existed, Notsure.
blimey jane thats a bit deep isnt it?
what would be wrong in thinking that if we found 100% proof that he was guilty i would be able to forget it.
Why would i feel anything for him then. I would be able to get on with my life without worrying that there had been a MOJ and an innocent man wasnt rotting in prison
my emotions are clear. I am unsure about his guilt and that concerns and worries me.
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I can be like that.It's called shutting off.When a person doesn't mean anything to you,i.e.is not a relative,then I can't see that it matters.
Lookout I think like you Jeremy Bamber means nothing to me but if he is innocent it is one heck of a shame being in prison for so long for a crime he did not commit :'(
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If I found out I could fly it would a heck of a shame I have been getting a bus everywhere this year.
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I can be like that.It's called shutting off.When a person doesn't mean anything to you,i.e.is not a relative,then I can't see that it matters.
Lookout, you sound as if you're saying that you can choose what, or not, to feel.
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blimey jane thats a bit deep isnt it?
what would be wrong in thinking that if we found 100% proof that he was guilty i would be able to forget it.
Why would i feel anything for him then. I would be able to get on with my life without worrying that there had been a MOJ and an innocent man wasnt rotting in prison
my emotions are clear. I am unsure about his guilt and that concerns and worries me.
Notsure, thinking isn't feeling. Thinking is about reason. Feeling is about emotion. Emotions aren't light switches to be flicked on and off.
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Lookout, you sound as if you're saying that you can choose what, or not, to feel.
Hi Jane
I have no emotions towards Jeremy Bamber one way or another and I took Lookout to mean the same but perhaps I read her post wrong. Just read the post again and I agree Lookout seems to be saying she can shut her emotions off I have none to start with :)
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Lookout, you sound as if you're saying that you can choose what, or not, to feel.
Don't we all in a given situation ?
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Notsure, thinking isn't feeling. Thinking is about reason. Feeling is about emotion. Emotions aren't light switches to be flicked on and off.
hang on a minute jane. Im sure your profession allows you to decide what a person thinks and feels but i dont think you know me and so couldnt have an opinion on what my thoughrs and opinions and emotions are. You are basing that comment on a single sentence which i dont think is fair and its a pretty personal thing to do.
I think if i get you right you are trying to say that i would feel some emotion if he were guilty or innocent.of course i would but i would not be spending too much time feeling anything but pity for a mass murderer who had spent 30 years claiming innocence.
and you feel emotion dont you.
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Having thought he was innocent, I felt sorry for him, now I think he's guilty and having conversed with him a little, I can't say I dislike him - I just hate what he did and think he's where he should be and where he should stay.
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Don't we all in a given situation ?
No Lookout, absolutely not. Feelings are about how we respond to situations, inanimate objects, people. Whilst we can't choose the feelings, we CAN choose how we use them.
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No Lookout, absolutely not. Feelings are about how we respond to situations, inanimate objects, people. Whilst we can't choose the feelings, we CAN choose how we use them.
Of course we all know how to respond in certain situations.We don't " choose " to mourn at a funeral,it's a natural reflex to sob/cry. It's got nothing to do with choosing.
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Having thought he was innocent, I felt sorry for him, now I think he's guilty and having conversed with him a little, I can't say I dislike him - I just hate what he did and think he's where he should be and where he should stay.
I think it's a different situation to support someone from a distance because you believe them to have suffered injustice rather than to be closely involved with someone in the same situation. If you have a close relationship and give up time and money and emotion to help prove innocence you can invest heavily in that person, then discover such a person doesn't really exist and instead of a wronged and innocent person you have been supporting a murderer.... not so easy to deal with imo
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hang on a minute jane. Im sure your profession allows you to decide what a person thinks and feels but i dont think you know me and so couldnt have an opinion on what my thoughrs and opinions and emotions are. You are basing that comment on a single sentence which i dont think is fair and its a pretty personal thing to do.
I think if i get you right you are trying to say that i would feel some emotion if he were guilty or innocent.of course i would but i would not be spending too much time feeling anything but pity for a mass murderer who had spent 30 years claiming innocence.
and you feel emotion dont you.
Notsure, the one thing I'm not capable of is deciding what individuals think and feel (NOR is it my job. THAT is about encouraging people to express their feelings. It isn't up to me to tell anyone what they should, or NOT feel. It's about THEIR feelings, not mine) but there are only so many appropriate emotions available to us -I can't magic new ones out of the ether- but I can make an educated guess. I have NO idea what sentence you think I commented unfairly on, nor do I know what you're disagreeing with me about. You're agreeing that you'd feel something -pity- but I'm not certain why you question my ability to feel emotion.
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Having thought he was innocent, I felt sorry for him, now I think he's guilty and having conversed with him a little, I can't say I dislike him - I just hate what he did and think he's where he should be and where he should stay.
Caroline, that's absolutely appropriate. If you found (innocent) Jeremy was likeable. I can't think why that changes because he's guilty.
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Caroline, that's absolutely appropriate. If you found (innocent) Jeremy was likeable. I can't think why that changes because he's guilty.
Hmmm, see now that's strange because now you've said 'like' - it makes me uncomfortable. I think the best I can do is 'not dislike'. I know that's a bit pedantic but I guess knowing he's guilty won't allow me to say 'like' - if that makes sense? :-\ ??? ;D
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Of course we all know how to respond in certain situations.We don't " choose " to mourn at a funeral,it's a natural reflex to sob/cry. It's got nothing to do with choosing.
Lookout, acting/doing and feeling are worlds apart. I've been to funerals at which I haven't felt tear producing emotions.
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Hmmm, see now that's strange because now you've said 'like' - it makes me uncomfortable. I think the best I can do is 'not dislike'. I know that's a bit pedantic but I guess knowing he's guilty won't allow me to say 'like' - if that makes sense? :-\ ??? ;D
Sorry about that, Caroline.. I can see that "not dislike" probably sits more comfortably.
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Sorry about that, Caroline.. I can see that "not dislike" probably sits more comfortably.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Notsure, the one thing I'm not capable of is deciding what individuals think and feel (NOR is it my job. THAT is about encouraging people to express their feelings. It isn't up to me to tell anyone what they should, or NOT feel. It's about THEIR feelings, not mine) but there are only so many appropriate emotions available to us -I can't magic new ones out of the ether- but I can make an educated guess. I have NO idea what sentence you think I commented unfairly on, nor do I know what you're disagreeing with me about. You're agreeing that you'd feel something -pity- but I'm not certain why you question my ability to feel emotion.
Then it's either very lucky or very sad that you're capable of eliminating emotions as if they have never existed, Notsure.
Above is what I felt a bit miffed about Jane, in that I took it you thought I would be sad if I was capable of eliminating emotions as if they never existed. I certainly couldn't do that. Hey ho it doesnt matter though.
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Then it's either very lucky or very sad that you're capable of eliminating emotions as if they have never existed, Notsure.
Above is what I felt a bit miffed about Jane, in that I took it you thought I would be sad if I was capable of eliminating emotions as if they never existed. I certainly couldn't do that. Hey ho it doesnt matter though.
Notsure, please be VERY assured that my meaning was there in my words ie "IT'S either very lucky or very sad......................" In no way was I inferring that it was YOU who was sad.
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Of course we all know how to respond in certain situations.We don't " choose " to mourn at a funeral,it's a natural reflex to sob/cry. It's got nothing to do with choosing.
Well,Jeremy certainly didn't ;)
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Oh that's good, because I am a really happy person. haha ;D
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Why were so many written statements whittled down when it came to the trial using the typed versions ? Such as in Dr Ferguson's statements of which there were originally about 6 down to 4 ? Does it mean that those which were omitted are being withheld ? If they're not already destroyed.
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Why were so many written statements whittled down when it came to the trial using the typed versions ? Such as in Dr Ferguson's statements of which there were originally about 6 down to 4 ? Does it mean that those which were omitted are being withheld ? If they're not already destroyed.
Typed words are easier to read than handwriting AND take up less space on paper.
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Typed words are easier to read than handwriting AND take up less space on paper.
That's as maybe,but at least two pages missing doesn't equate to something being condensed that much ?
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That's as maybe,but at least two pages missing doesn't equate to something being condensed that much ?
Surely much depends on the size of the original handwriting. Putting something into precis form reduces it considerably.
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Surely much depends on the size of the original handwriting. Putting something into precis form reduces it considerably.
There are still two pages missing.
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There are still two pages missing.
How do you know? Who said there were two pages missing?
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How do you know? Who said there were two pages missing?
If you read somewhere in Wilkes book it mentions that when Dr Ferguson actually knew about the fostering that it would have had a catastrophic effect. He doesn't say this in his statement.
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If you read somewhere in Wilkes book it mentions that when Dr Ferguson actually knew about the fostering that it would have had a catastrophic effect. He doesn't say this in his statement.
I think you're taking that entirely out of context. Wasn't there also something about how she MIGHT react IF.....................
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I think you're taking that entirely out of context. Wasn't there also something about how she MIGHT react IF.....................
No,because he added that he would not have expected her to have been passive about that.
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No,because he added that he would not have expected her to have been passive about that.
But we DON'T know that there was the suggestion of the children being fostered. It wasn't as if it was a new thing to Sheila, anyway. She had been having daily carers for the children as it was.
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But we DON'T know that there was the suggestion of the children being fostered. It wasn't as if it was a new thing to Sheila, anyway. She had been having daily carers for the children as it was.
Jeremy wasn't to know that nobody had known they'd been fostered before. He'd mentioned it as a matter of course when it was discussed at supper.
When Sheila was living in London,they were fostered to give her a break.Colin's mum knew that when she wrote it in her statement.
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Jeremy wasn't to know that nobody had known they'd been fostered before. He'd mentioned it as a matter of course when it was discussed at supper.
When Sheila was living in London,they were fostered to give her a break.Colin's mum knew that when she wrote it in her statement.
Day care was a regular occurrence for her, Lookout. Part of the routine of her life. She was NEVER going to be able to manage the boys on her own. It would have been no big thing for her to have it talked about.