Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: mike tesko on April 13, 2011, 02:32:PM
-
I also intend to visit other places of interest...
-
I also intend to visit other places of interest...
If you get to go to lunch at Chequers in Goldhanger, the sea bass comes highly recommended. ;)
-
Go to the caravan
Interesting points to bring up since my visit
Jeremys lifestyle
He worked on the farm good salary
He owned shares in the caravan park
He had his car bought for him
He had his petrol bought for him
He had his cottage bought for him
He supplied potatoes to the pub restaurant by his cottage and got free meals and beers
He had savings in his bank
His grandmother was very old and he would have got some inheritance there
And apparently he was quite tight with his money
Does that sound like someone had a bad life who would risk everything by murdering his family even though he had no history or violence and everything would come to him one day anyway
-
I also intend to visit other places of interest...
If you get to go to lunch at Chequers in Goldhanger, the sea bass comes highly recommended. ;)
... Cheers, I might bear that in mind, next time I call in to see the current 'church warden', she invited me in to take a few photographs, and she also gave me a small booklet, entitled 'St Nicholas churh', Tolleshunt D'arcy. I also walked up Pages lane, past whf - took some new pictures...
-
Go to the caravan
Interesting points to bring up since my visit
Jeremys lifestyle
He worked on the farm good salary
He owned shares in the caravan park
He had his car bought for him
He had his petrol bought for him
He had his cottage bought for him
He supplied potatoes to the pub restaurant by his cottage and got free meals and beers
He had savings in his bank
His grandmother was very old and he would have got some inheritance there
And apparently he was quite tight with his money
Does that sound like someone had a bad life who would risk everything by murdering his family even though he had no history or violence and everything would come to him one day anyway
Good points, Jackie +1
-
I also intend to visit other places of interest...
If you get to go to lunch at Chequers in Goldhanger, the sea bass comes highly recommended. ;)
... Cheers, I might bear that in mind, next time I call in to see the current 'church warden', she invited me in to take a few photographs, and she also gave me a small booklet, entitled 'St Nicholas churh', Tolleshunt D'arcy. I also walked up Pages lane, past whf - took some new pictures...
Well it's certainly nice weather for it. :)
-
No offence Mike, but i'm decorating the front room, so can't have visitors, another time maybe. ;)
Edit: Actually Mike, you're more than welcome to come round for a cup of tea, but i am decorating.
And you can borrow my bike for the Keira challenge below, but i want it back.
-
I also intend to visit other places of interest...
Lucky you, wish I was there instead of stuck in my office on a quiet day.
1. Try walking from Goldhanger to D'arcy across the fields
2. Then tell us if you feel like committing 5 murders before walking back
3. Cycle the scenic sea wall route...and fall off, so you don't get to commit any murders
3. Photograph the Bambers' memorial window at St Nic's
4. Photograph the old WW2 airfield at Goldhanger - re: horseydave
I recommend having tea at the Wilkins jam factory's cafe or the cafe at lovely Heybridge Basin. Have breakfast, if you're stopping, at the Ship, Heybridge Basin: they do a great veggie breakfast and the landlord is a good bloke and very knowledgeable.
Have fun
-
I also intend to visit other places of interest...
If you get to go to lunch at Chequers in Goldhanger, the sea bass comes highly recommended. ;)
... Cheers, I might bear that in mind, next time I call in to see the current 'church warden', she invited me in to take a few photographs, and she also gave me a small booklet, entitled 'St Nicholas churh', Tolleshunt D'arcy. I also walked up Pages lane, past whf - took some new pictures...
Well it's certainly nice weather for it. :)
... Yes, I also visited the monastery at Tolleshunt knights - about 3 miles or so from Whf...
-
Sorry is there only me that thinks its a bit ghoulish!????
-
I also intend to visit other places of interest...
If you get to go to lunch at Chequers in Goldhanger, the sea bass comes highly recommended. ;)
... Cheers, I might bear that in mind, next time I call in to see the current 'church warden', she invited me in to take a few photographs, and she also gave me a small booklet, entitled 'St Nicholas churh', Tolleshunt D'arcy. I also walked up Pages lane, past whf - took some new pictures...
Is it really possible to walk down pages lane? I thought it was a private track. Google map/earth whatever it's called won't let you see whf. It does allow you to see 9 Head Street though.
What was his cottage like and when did he move in?
-
No offence Mike, but i'm decorating the front room, so can't have visitors, another time maybe. ;)
Edit: Actually Mike, you're more than welcome to come round for a cup of tea, but i am decorating.
And you can borrow my bike for the Keira challenge below, but i want it back.
... Thanks for offer of tea, perhaps next time I am in your neck of the woods...
-
No offence Mike, but i'm decorating the front room, so can't have visitors, another time maybe. ;)
Edit: Actually Mike, you're more than welcome to come round for a cup of tea, but i am decorating.
And you can borrow my bike for the Keira challenge below, but i want it back.
... Thanks for offer of tea, perhaps next time I am in your neck of the woods...
No problem.
You should let us know when you're down this way, far easier to discuss and cross swords face to face.I'm sure others from this area would be interested in meeting and discussing the case.
And Joolz, i don't think its ghoulish. You get a better feel for things when you know the locations etc.
-
I also intend to visit other places of interest...
Lucky you, wish I was there instead of stuck in my office on a quiet day.
1. Try walking from Goldhanger to D'arcy across the fields
2. Then tell us if you feel like committing 5 murders before walking back
3. Cycle the scenic sea wall route...and fall off, so you don't get to commit any murders
3. Photograph the Bambers' memorial window at St Nic's
4. Photograph the old WW2 airfield at Goldhanger - re: horseydave
I recommend having tea at the Wilkins jam factory's cafe or the cafe at lovely Heybridge Basin. Have breakfast, if you're stopping, at the Ship, Heybridge Basin: they do a great veggie breakfast and the landlord is a good bloke and very knowledgeable.
Have fun
... Thanks for suggestions, and recommendations...
-
No offence Mike, but i'm decorating the front room, so can't have visitors, another time maybe. ;)
Edit: Actually Mike, you're more than welcome to come round for a cup of tea, but i am decorating.
And you can borrow my bike for the Keira challenge below, but i want it back.
... Thanks for offer of tea, perhaps next time I am in your neck of the woods...
No problem.
You should let us know when you're down this way, far easier to discuss and cross swords face to face.I'm sure others from this area would be interested in meeting and discussing the case.
And Joolz, i don't think its ghoulish. You get a better feel for things when you know the locations etc.
Lol didnt mean any offence, just know i wouldnt sleep if i went anywhere near a murder scene!
-
Is it really possible to walk down pages lane? I thought it was a private track. Google map/earth whatever it's called won't let you see whf. It does allow you to see 9 Head Street though.
What was his cottage like and when did he move in?
Well yes, technically it's a shared private lane, but there's enough coming and going from the farms and cottages not to be too obvious a trespasser. If however you get spotted peering into windows taking pictures then you've only got yourself to blame. Also watch out for the shotgun carrying guard dogs (or take biscuits). ;)
-
I also intend to visit other places of interest...
Lucky you, wish I was there instead of stuck in my office on a quiet day.
1. Try walking from Goldhanger to D'arcy across the fields
2. Then tell us if you feel like committing 5 murders before walking back
3. Cycle the scenic sea wall route...and fall off, so you don't get to commit any murders
3. Photograph the Bambers' memorial window at St Nic's
4. Photograph the old WW2 airfield at Goldhanger - re: horseydave
I recommend having tea at the Wilkins jam factory's cafe or the cafe at lovely Heybridge Basin. Have breakfast, if you're stopping, at the Ship, Heybridge Basin: they do a great veggie breakfast and the landlord is a good bloke and very knowledgeable.
Have fun
... Thanks for suggestions, and recommendations...
I forgot, the church warden at Goldhanger - lives a few doors up from the church, he's the bell ringer too - have his details at home, sorry - he is researching Goldhanger and has a lot of local knowledge, he also knows others who are knowledgable re local events.
-
Is it really possible to walk down pages lane? I thought it was a private track. Google map/earth whatever it's called won't let you see whf. It does allow you to see 9 Head Street though.
What was his cottage like and when did he move in?
Well yes, technically it's a shared private lane, but there's enough coming and going from the farms and cottages not to be too obvious a trespasser. If however you get spotted peering into windows taking pictures then you've only got yourself to blame. Also watch out for the shotgun carrying guard dogs (or take biscuits). ;)
Do the local's believe JB guilty ? I dont mean family obviously
-
I'd love to see a picture of the memorial window.......
-
Is it really possible to walk down pages lane? I thought it was a private track. Google map/earth whatever it's called won't let you see whf. It does allow you to see 9 Head Street though.
What was his cottage like and when did he move in?
Well yes, technically it's a shared private lane, but there's enough coming and going from the farms and cottages not to be too obvious a trespasser. If however you get spotted peering into windows taking pictures then you've only got yourself to blame. Also watch out for the shotgun carrying guard dogs (or take biscuits). ;)
Why? Have you been down there? I don't feel comfortable with the idea of gawping at the locations associated with the case. Do the family get a lot of it?
People tell me Goldhanger is a nice village though.
-
Do the local's believe JB guilty ? I dont mean family obviously
Obviously. ;)
To be perfectly honest I think there is no doubt a mixed bag of opinions, some educated some not.
You would also be surprised (possibly) that actually there are many people, even locally, who know nothing about the case, some would recognise the name but nothing more.
-
Is it really possible to walk down pages lane? I thought it was a private track. Google map/earth whatever it's called won't let you see whf. It does allow you to see 9 Head Street though.
What was his cottage like and when did he move in?
Well yes, technically it's a shared private lane, but there's enough coming and going from the farms and cottages not to be too obvious a trespasser. If however you get spotted peering into windows taking pictures then you've only got yourself to blame. Also watch out for the shotgun carrying guard dogs (or take biscuits). ;)
Why? Have you been down there? I don't feel comfortable with the idea of gawping at the locations associated with the case. Do the family get a lot of it?
People tell me Goldhanger is a nice village though.
Behind where i live an old woman was raped,murdered and set on fire and even now a fair few years on people walk past gawping in the window and people stop in their cars to have a look.
Id hate to live in that bungalow now!
-
Sounds an odd thing to do but it definitely gives you an insight into the distance between Goldhanger WHF and the time taken.
I also live relatively locally and have done it...but didn't go down Pages Lane, thought that would have been slightly intrusive. I think it is a public footpath though.
-
Is it really possible to walk down pages lane? I thought it was a private track. Google map/earth whatever it's called won't let you see whf. It does allow you to see 9 Head Street though.
What was his cottage like and when did he move in?
Well yes, technically it's a shared private lane, but there's enough coming and going from the farms and cottages not to be too obvious a trespasser. If however you get spotted peering into windows taking pictures then you've only got yourself to blame. Also watch out for the shotgun carrying guard dogs (or take biscuits). ;)
Why? Have you been down there? I don't feel comfortable with the idea of gawping at the locations associated with the case. Do the family get a lot of it?
People tell me Goldhanger is a nice village though.
Behind where i live an old woman was raped,murdered and set on fire and even now a fair few years on people walk past gawping in the window and people stop in their cars to have a look.
Id hate to live in that bungalow now!
I live in a listed cottage that's almost 300 years old and of much local historic interest. People constantly walk past and look in my windows but I don't care, I feel it's their right to look. Most people who live in old houses of historic interest accept that these never really belong to us, they belong to the community, the past and the future. We are merely caretakers of our homes for the next generation and for the entire community past and present. Although those at White House farm have the added problem of the murderous history, I imagine they have little gawping to put up with because they're off the beaten track. I would think it's the constant debate and exposure on the internet and in the media, however, that makes their lives hell.
-
There does tend to be a distinct increase in sight seeing tourists when the case has been in the press, more so during appeal decisions etc.
-
Chochokiera what a wonderful way to describe your home it sounds really beautiful I bet you love talking to people when you are outside. Have you always lived in the area?
-
Go to the caravan
Interesting points to bring up since my visit
Jeremys lifestyle
He worked on the farm good salary
He owned shares in the caravan park
He had his car bought for him
He had his petrol bought for him
He had his cottage bought for him
He supplied potatoes to the pub restaurant by his cottage and got free meals and beers
He had savings in his bank
His grandmother was very old and he would have got some inheritance there
And apparently he was quite tight with his money
Does that sound like someone had a bad life who would risk everything by murdering his family even though he had no history or violence and everything would come to him one day anyway
Good points. Looks like he had it made.
-
I'd love to see a picture of the memorial window.......
--------------------
I will be posting some of the pictures I took (today), at the church, Etc...
-
Did you speak to any of the people from the village about the case Mike? If yes what was their general view?
-
I'd love to see a picture of the memorial window.......
--------------------
I will be posting some of the pictures I took (today), at the church, Etc...
Yes, please!
-
There does tend to be a distinct increase in sight seeing tourists when the case has been in the press, more so during appeal decisions etc.
Do you mean that WHF has more sight seers, or that the village or district does, Harters?
-
Did you speak to any of the people from the village about the case Mike? If yes what was their general view?
---------------
Not today, although I have an appointment to see one person in the not too distant future...
-
i know this has been mentioned before, but we should all meet up and discuss face to face, its easier to get points across without getting the wrong end of the stick, im up for it, anyone else?
-
Photographs taken today, during my visit to the area:-
-
Chochokiera what a wonderful way to describe your home it sounds really beautiful I bet you love talking to people when you are outside. Have you always lived in the area?
Thanks, Jackie. I've lived in my village for around 25 years or so. It's full of historic buildings and was a lovely place, sadly, my local council are destroying it with huge over-development. A giant estate is creeping round behind us and now a large estate is proposed at the front of us too: but we're not having that, we're fighting it for all we're worth. You're right, I do love talking to people when I'm working in my front garden. We've a lovely community here, we all know each other.
Yet my heart really lies in Goldhanger and D'Arcy. There's a network of small villages and towns around D'Arcy which were all connected by Tiptree Heath: Tolleshunt Knights and Major, Messing, Tiptree, Great and Little Totham, Inworth, the Wig Wigs, Salcott cum Virley, Layer Marney, Layer Breton and Layer de la Haye, Maldon, Mersea Island: this was my family's stamping ground for centuries. I imagine JB knew all of them. Visit Messing and Layer Marney Towers if you're up that way again, Jackie, they're lovely villages. You can climb to the top of one of Layer Marney's Towers, stand among the ancient, spiralling chimneys and look out across the countryside.
-
There does tend to be a distinct increase in sight seeing tourists when the case has been in the press, more so during appeal decisions etc.
Do you mean that WHF has more sight seers, or that the village or district does, Harters?
Both really, people in the village have started to tell them to go away the last couple of years.
-
There does tend to be a distinct increase in sight seeing tourists when the case has been in the press, more so during appeal decisions etc.
Do you mean that WHF has more sight seers, or that the village or district does, Harters?
Both really, people in the village have started to tell them to go away the last couple of years.
Lol Hartley, are the visitors that obvious?!
-
people are bound to be curious, its human nature, its the same with the house where the amityville shootings took place, the occupants of that house had to change the number of the house to deter sight seers, didnt work though! funnily enough the amityville shootings were commited by the son, for money, then he tried to incriminate his sister dawn, saying she was an accomplice.
-
Pages Lane, leading up to Wicke Farm and WHF:-
-
I recognise Tolleshunt knights. I sometimes go to that used car place on the right just down the road to Tiptree Jam factory. I've worked at Frame Farm somewhere up there on the left I think?
-
Andrea , I also would like to meet fellow posters [especually Kaldin].
Would it not be a long way for you to travel.
-
Lovely area! Its a shame that people not from Essex just see the Basildon and Southend side of things and not the beautiful rural villages like D'arcy. When I meet people and say i'm from Essex you can tell their thinking hmmm White Stilettos...couldn't be more wrong!
-
Thankyou Chochokiera for such an insight into the area I had a really nice day tinged with a lot of sadness because of the goings on at WHF maybe JB will get his appeal or even better a retrial where a new jury could make a decision with more facts available to them. I will go back and it's nice to find a new place in Essex.
-
Andrea , I also would like to meet fellow posters [especually Kaldin].
Would it not be a long way for you to travel.
yes it would cliff, im in leeds, but it would be worth it would make an interesting day in my opinion
-
Lovely area! Its a shame that people not from Essex just see the Basildon and Southend side of things and not the beautiful rural villages like D'arcy. When I meet people and say i'm from Essex you can tell their thinking hmmm White Stilettos...couldn't be more wrong!
Yep I agree. Essex is such a diverse county. It has everything; the London side plus all the estuary, including Southend, but go into the centre, up the coast and north (Constable country), it's really rural, and quite quaint, plus the accent changes!
-
My Visit to St Nicholas Church, Tolleshunt D'Arcy, today, captured in images:-
Please be patient, I am trying to reproduce a visual portfolio of the church, its grounds, and the link between it and June Bamber, and the tragedy which unfolded at whf, on the morning of 7th August 1985...
-
Mike, the pictures are great, and show the area in true beauty which it is.
I may be missing something, what has this got to do with the murders.
-
Lovely area! Its a shame that people not from Essex just see the Basildon and Southend side of things and not the beautiful rural villages like D'arcy. When I meet people and say i'm from Essex you can tell their thinking hmmm White Stilettos...couldn't be more wrong!
Yeah sometimes people are shocked when you say the rural Essex accent is similar to Suffolk/ Norfolk. I'm from a very rural area of Essex and its nice to hear the older generation still have the accent.
Yep I agree. Essex is such a diverse county. It has everything; the London side plus all the estuary, including Southend, but go into the centre, up the coast and north (Constable country), it's really rural, and quite quaint, plus the accent changes!
-
Mike, the pictures are great, and show the area in true beauty which it is.
I may be missing something, what has this got to do with the murders.
--------------------
Remains of Ralph and June Bamber are buried in the church grounds, and June Bamber was the church warden, and ?
-
Thankyou Chochokiera for such an insight into the area I had a really nice day tinged with a lot of sadness because of the goings on at WHF maybe JB will get his appeal or even better a retrial where a new jury could make a decision with more facts available to them. I will go back and it's nice to find a new place in Essex.
I'd love to see a retrial, Jackie, I feel our country owes Jeremy Bamber that. We owe it to the Bamber family and to Sheila too. They all deserve justice. A proper Appeal would be brilliant, wouldn't it? I'm an optimist by nature, so I do believe there will be justice for Jeremy in the end. I don't care what objections the naysayers raise here, they cannot alter the truth, that Jeremy Bamber was denied a fair trial and that the British justice system owes him a fair hearing, in whatever form that takes.
-
Thankyou Chochokiera for such an insight into the area I had a really nice day tinged with a lot of sadness because of the goings on at WHF maybe JB will get his appeal or even better a retrial where a new jury could make a decision with more facts available to them. I will go back and it's nice to find a new place in Essex.
I'd love to see a retrial, Jackie, I feel our country owes Jeremy Bamber that. We owe it to the Bamber family and to Sheila too. They all deserve justice. A proper Appeal would be brilliant, wouldn't it? I'm an optimist by nature, so I do believe there will be justice for Jeremy in the end. I don't care what objections the naysayers raise here, they cannot alter the truth, that Jeremy Bamber was denied a fair trial and that the British justice system owes him a fair hearing, in whatever form that takes.
He had a fair trial, he's lucky they did away with hanging that's for sure!!
-
how do you reckon he had a fair trial john ? even some people who think hes guilty didnt think he had a fair trial
-
how do you reckon he had a fair trial john ? even some people who think hes guilty didnt think he had a fair trial
Why do you think he didn't?
-
Mike, the pictures are great, and show the area in true beauty which it is.
I may be missing something, what has this got to do with the murders.
I believe it helps to set the village scene in our mind's eye, Cliff, it helps us to understand what happened if we forum members can visualise these places we keep reading about. St Nicholas's church is where June and Nevill Bamber's funeral was held and they are buried in the graveyard here. Among the huge amount of controversy that this case is steeped in lies the issue of the funeral and Jeremy's conduct there.
-
Chocho, I know what you are saying, but it has no bearing on the case.
Parts of Essex are mind blowing. I moved here from Kent, and love this area.
I am sure that Andrea can post pictures of Leeds that are equally as scenic, But I fail to see the relevance.
-
Chocho, I know what you are saying, but it has no bearing on the case.
Parts of Essex are mind blowing. I moved here from Kent, and love this area.
I am sure that Andrea can post pictures of Leeds that are equally as scenic, But I fail to see the relevance.
i have the lovely kirkstall abbey just down the road :) and ...erm...thats about it ;)
-
Chocho, I know what you are saying, but it has no bearing on the case.
Parts of Essex are mind blowing. I moved here from Kent, and love this area.
I am sure that Andrea can post pictures of Leeds that are equally as scenic, But I fail to see the relevance.
i have the lovely kirkstall abbey just down the road :) and ...erm...thats about it ;)
Roundhay Park is beautiful.
-
the last time i went there, the police were dragging a body ot of the lake.
roundhay park was the yorkshire rippers stomping ground too
-
Andrea if you ever come down you would be welcome to stay with me I have just had the decorators in to do my spare room.
John I believe for at least two reasons the Julie mugford newspaper deal and the real revelation of where the inheritance would go if JB was convicted would have changed the verdict in court that is without numerous other anomalies that have been discussed here.
Are you really going to say the jury would not have come to a different decision
-
thanks jackie :)
-
Mike, the pictures are great, and show the area in true beauty which it is.
I may be missing something, what has this got to do with the murders.
I believe it helps to set the village scene in our mind's eye, Cliff, it helps us to understand what happened if we forum members can visualise these places we keep reading about. St Nicholas's church is where June and Nevill Bamber's funeral was held and they are buried in the graveyard here. Among the huge amount of controversy that this case is steeped in lies the issue of the funeral and Jeremy's conduct there.
I agree. It's kind of weird seeing pictures of the church in a different context - ie, without Jeremy and co there, but it's interesting too.
-
i may be jumping the gun here but the pictures of the graves, are one of them graves the resting place of neville and june, the ones at the very back of the pic? it looks familiar
-
Andrea if you ever come down you would be welcome to stay with me I have just had the decorators in to do my spare room.
John I believe for at least two reasons the Julie mugford newspaper deal and the real revelation of where the inheritance would go if JB was convicted would have changed the verdict in court that is without numerous other anomalies that have been discussed here.
Are you really going to say the jury would not have come to a different decision
The jurors knew that Julie was the Crown's star witness and found her testimony extremely compelling. I fear that it would have made no difference had they thought she was going to get £1million as they accepted that she was telling the truth albeit with a bit of window dressing thrown in for good measure. I would love to have seen Bamber's face when she gave her evidence, it would have been priceless!! :P
-
the last time i went there, the police were dragging a body ot of the lake.
roundhay park was the yorkshire rippers stomping ground too
My sister n law was a ranger there for several years. She rescued some kids from the lake but was told off by the management for putting her own life at risk.
-
roundhay lake is extremely deep, i have friend who runs a shop there. canal gardens is nice too.
-
John you would have liked to have Jeremys face when mugford was giving her evidence I would have liked to have seen mugfords face if she had been arrested and charged with perverting the course of justice when she thought she off to a 5 star hotel with her mother. It would have been good if the police had lied about immunity they change things when it suits them.
Great message to anyone who think crime doesn't pay
-
John, she was well rehearsed. Her testiment was not off the cuff.
-
John
I asked you two things do you think the jury would still have convicted JB if they had known about the newspaper money (which I think was enough anyway) and the full extent of the inheritance the relatives would have got on JBs conviction. Also bear in mind more property owned by Neville Bamber that went to the relatives has only just come to light because it was held under PII (for god knows what excuse)
John its simple enough question based on the above do you think JB would still have been convicted
Do you know what I would love it if you were really Bob Miller I would love a one on one with him
-
It would seem that JM was well rehearsed, but she never wavered. She might have been many things, but at the end of the day she was a young woman who might have dabbled in small-time crime but suddenly found herself in the middle of the most high-profile murder case of the time, and she held her nerve throughout. Not easy, unless she was convinced, I think.
-
This is what happened to Maxine Carr for perverting the course of justice
Carr was found guilty of two counts of conspiring to pervert the course of justice, but cleared of assisting an offender after the jury accepted that she lied to protect Huntley because she believed him to be innocent. Yesterday she was placed under a three-year supervision order after pleading guilty to 20 charges of benefit fraud and lying in job applications. She is now expected to be released on Friday after serving half of her 42-month sentence. Since her conviction Carr has been discussed in the same breath as Myra Hindley and Rosemary West, who actively participated in two of the most notorious serial murder cases of the 20th century. One paper gleefully reported that Carr had been taken ill in Holloway Prison after being abused by other inmates as “Myra Hindley II”.
Why wasnt Mugford charged she voluntarily went to the police and they had her statement why did they have to give her immunity John
-
Lovely area! Its a shame that people not from Essex just see the Basildon and Southend side of things and not the beautiful rural villages like D'arcy. When I meet people and say i'm from Essex you can tell their thinking hmmm White Stilettos...couldn't be more wrong!
Yeah sometimes people are shocked when you say the rural Essex accent is similar to Suffolk/ Norfolk. I'm from a very rural area of Essex and its nice to hear the older generation still have the accent.
Yep I agree. Essex is such a diverse county. It has everything; the London side plus all the estuary, including Southend, but go into the centre, up the coast and north (Constable country), it's really rural, and quite quaint, plus the accent changes!
I love the old Essex dialect. Unfortunately, it's rapidly being replaced with the Estuary English of south Essex. The term 'Estuary English' isn't a derogatory one, by the way, it's an expression used by those studying English dialects and refers to the spread of the dialect from the area around the Thames estuary.
-
chochokeira you have done some family trees on here i wondered if you could do anything on JB s natural family I know his father is not interested but I wondered about his mother and siblings is it possible to find anything about them at all
-
Why drag them into it, Jack? They must be mortified.
-
chochokeira you have done some family trees on here i wondered if you could do anything on JB s natural family I know his father is not interested but I wondered about his mother and siblings is it possible to find anything about them at all
I did start to have a look at them. I seem to recall that I couldn't find his father's birth in this country. That could be because he was born overseas, or perhaps he was born in Scotland (where the records' system differs from ours) as I've seen a reference somewhere to him living in the highlands. Or there could be another reason: the fact that he's part of the royal household could have been used to take his records out of the public domain. A birth in Scotland seems the likeliest possibility to me, in which case he may be difficult to research, as I recall - though I could be wrong, Scottish research requires a trip to Edinburgh where you've to stand in queues for hours to obtain a few measly records. So it could take years to research him. Are there any forum members who live near Edinburgh? I'll have a look at his mother for you tomorrow.
-
Shonopugs the things I have read about JB's natural father he does not seem to be a very nice man he certainly didn't seem to have any interest in contacting Jeremy say when JB was 18 which I find strange considering he ended up marrying JB s natural mother but we don't know what JB s mother thinks (everyone knows what a strong bond a mother has with her baby) she and JB s natural siblings might follow JB s case and share the belief he is innocent. They could even read this forum if their is a retrial or JB wins an appeal there is still a family out there. Does any one know how many siblings there are?
-
Shonopugs the things I have read about JB's natural father he does not seem to be a very nice man he certainly didn't seem to have any interest in contacting Jeremy say when JB was 18 which I find strange considering he ended up marrying JB s natural mother but we don't know what JB s mother thinks (everyone knows what a strong bond a mother has with her baby) she and JB s natural siblings might follow JB s case and share the belief he is innocent. They could even read this forum if their is a retrial or JB wins an appeal there is still a family out there. Does any one know how many siblings there are?
I get the impression the problem with the natural father (and possibly mother) is the good old English Class System, I'm not sure how well it will be received by their peers if they were seen to publicly defend a convicted murderer, regardless of the actual truth.
And please don't smite me but I do find it amusing sometimes when phrases such as "everyone knows what a strong bond a mother has with her baby" are used. Particularly when you have the view that Sheila dispatched her children to the great beyond with relative ease. ;)
-
But Sheila was very ill enough to be hospitalised twice if Sheila killed her children it was because she was very very ill I have no doubt she loved her boys very much.
-
But Sheila was very ill enough to be hospitalised twice if Sheila killed her children it was because she was very very ill I have no doubt she loved her boys very much.
Yeah I know, I guess I'm just implying that assumptions are easy to come by and can be tailored, especially when they get two or three layers deep, assumptions based on assumptions based on assumptions.
-
Shonopugs the things I have read about JB's natural father he does not seem to be a very nice man he certainly didn't seem to have any interest in contacting Jeremy say when JB was 18 which I find strange considering he ended up marrying JB s natural mother but we don't know what JB s mother thinks (everyone knows what a strong bond a mother has with her baby) she and JB s natural siblings might follow JB s case and share the belief he is innocent. They could even read this forum if their is a retrial or JB wins an appeal there is still a family out there. Does any one know how many siblings there are?
I get the impression the problem with the natural father (and possibly mother) is the good old English Class System, I'm not sure how well it will be received by their peers if they were seen to publicly defend a convicted murderer, regardless of the actual truth.
And please don't smite me but I do find it amusing sometimes when phrases such as "everyone knows what a strong bond a mother has with her baby" are used. Particularly when you have the view that Sheila dispatched her children to the great beyond with relative ease. ;)
I keep applauding you myself. Trying to get your plus numbers up. Because I think you make some good points.
-
Cheers Grahame, who'd 'a' thought ay? ;)
-
John
I asked you two things do you think the jury would still have convicted JB if they had known about the newspaper money (which I think was enough anyway) and the full extent of the inheritance the relatives would have got on JBs conviction. Also bear in mind more property owned by Neville Bamber that went to the relatives has only just come to light because it was held under PII (for god knows what excuse)
John its simple enough question based on the above do you think JB would still have been convicted
Do you know what I would love it if you were really Bob Miller I would love a one on one with him
Sorry Jackie, I did answer the first one somewhere.
Anyway, I don't think the payment from the newspaper would have made one iota even if it had been £1million. The jury would be aware who would inherit if they chose to convict Jeremy so I don't that that was an issue.
Sorry but I ain't Bob Miller and know nothing about him.
-
roundhay lake is extremely deep, i have friend who runs a shop there. canal gardens is nice too.
yes it is, thought it was
-
roundhay lake is extremely deep, i have friend who runs a shop there. canal gardens is nice too.
yes it is, thought it was
i posted on the wrong quote :-[ i wa reffering to neville and junes grave
-
roundhay lake is extremely deep, i have friend who runs a shop there. canal gardens is nice too.
yes it is, thought it was
i posted on the wrong quote :-[ i wa reffering to neville and junes grave
I wondered why you were talking to yourself Andrea? ;D
-
This is what happened to Maxine Carr for perverting the course of justice
Carr was found guilty of two counts of conspiring to pervert the course of justice, but cleared of assisting an offender after the jury accepted that she lied to protect Huntley because she believed him to be innocent. Yesterday she was placed under a three-year supervision order after pleading guilty to 20 charges of benefit fraud and lying in job applications. She is now expected to be released on Friday after serving half of her 42-month sentence. Since her conviction Carr has been discussed in the same breath as Myra Hindley and Rosemary West, who actively participated in two of the most notorious serial murder cases of the 20th century. One paper gleefully reported that Carr had been taken ill in Holloway Prison after being abused by other inmates as “Myra Hindley II”.
Why wasnt Mugford charged she voluntarily went to the police and they had her statement why did they have to give her immunity John
Different time and different crime Jackie! you cant compare the two!
-
Joolz are you kidding so JB laughed to mugford he should have been an actor and if she had gone downstairs to tell the policeman what JB had done the police could have started getting evidence straightaway
Different crime yes:
2 children + 3 adults
Maxine Carr
2 children
And she didn't identify Holly and jessicas bodies
-
And I suppose if JB hadn't dumped mugford by now they would be living happily ever after at whf and mugford would have had a face lift by now the nasty witch
-
She might have thought he was in shock. I find your continual abuse of Julie Mugford to be quite disturbing. How come you make every excuse for JB and his behaviour? but JM is not afforded the same luxury.
-
Joolz are you kidding so JB laughed to mugford he should have been an actor and if she had gone downstairs to tell the policeman what JB had done the police could have started getting evidence straightaway
Different crime yes:
2 children + 3 adults
Maxine Carr
2 children
And she didn't identify Holly and jessicas bodies
I disagree but each to their own and all that!
There is nooooo comparison at all between the cold blooded shooting of family members and the murder of two children who were strangers to the murderer!
-
And I suppose if JB hadn't dumped mugford by now they would be living happily ever after at whf and mugford would have had a face lift by now the nasty witch
Sheesh :o Very constructive. ???
-
And I suppose if JB hadn't dumped mugford by now they would be living happily ever after at whf and mugford would have had a face lift by now the nasty witch
Oh Jackie,just when your coming out with some ok points you have to go and spoil yourself with childish comments about someones looks and name calling!
Its pathetic really, im assuming your a grown woman?? try acting like one because you do yourself no favours!
Your so convinced that JB is innocent and that JM is lying that time and time again you fail to see the point!
IT IS NOT UP TO JM TO PROVE SHE WAS TELLING THE TRUTH!!! ITS UP TO JB TO PROVE SHE WASNT!!!! he couldnt therefore hes banged up!!!!!
-
She might have thought he was in shock. I find your continual abuse of Julie Mugford to be quite disturbing. How come you make every excuse for JB and his behaviour? but JM is not afforded the same luxury.
I think it is because she got away with the crime of accessory after the fact and that she is considered a model charitable citizen in Canada where she lives. I don't think Jackie is abusing JM I think she is as many others are just disgusted that she got off scot free for perverting the course of justice by making a deal with the police. And by the way I'm no fan of JB.
-
Why wasnt Mugford charged she voluntarily went to the police and they had her statement why did they have to give her immunity John
Sorry Jackie, I missed your earlier question.
In order to make sure that she testified the Crown would give her immunity. This is a well tried and tested procedure and stinks to high heaven because many an accomplice has got off in this way.
-
She might have thought he was in shock. I find your continual abuse of Julie Mugford to be quite disturbing. How come you make every excuse for JB and his behaviour? but JM is not afforded the same luxury.
I think it is because she got away with the crime of accessory after the fact and that she is considered a model charitable citizen in Canada where she lives. I don't think Jackie is abusing JM I think she is as many others are just disgusted that she got off scot free for perverting the course of justice by making a deal with the police. And by the way I'm no fan of JB.
I think she has done what a lot of women would have done in her situation, i think shes despicable dont get me wrong but if you were given the chance of a new life after what had happened you would take it!!
She couldnt stay in the UK could she, yeh shes moved to Canada and shes a supposed model citizen, maybe shes trying to make amends for the mistakes she made as a twenty something young woman!
She didnt pull the trigger and people have got away with a lot more than keeping things from the police over the years so why the persecution!
In an ideal world she would have opened up straight away to what she had been told but she didnt, shes got to live with that!
-
I don't think we can blame Julie Mugford completely out of hand. I believe she thought Jeremy was deluding himself right up until the murders. Otherwise why would she ask him if he had done it?
I also believe that when the penny dropped that he was responsible, she started to be concerned for her own safety. I think that she put in a few weeks of soul searching before she eventually spoke to the police and didn't stop speaking until it was all out in the open.
I think the persecution lies with the way in which she turned on Jeremy to save her own skin.
-
You get a reaction because I have spent 3 days making the point mugford had no secret special information to prove JB commited the murders and then John comes out with rubbish like even if the jury knew mugford was getting a million pounds on JB's conviction they would still have found her guilty
I don't believe her and I will never believe her unless I saw any evidence
There is no evidence she is just a good liar
The jury was 10-2 have a poll of people on here and see what they have to say
If I get frustrated it's because a credible witness is not someone who gets a bonus for getting a result in court
You write ridiculous things like mugford didn't pervert the course of justice well I believe she did
Yes I am a grown women but I look for the truth in what is alleged you might try quoting on facts in future
I do despise mugford she has either put her ex boyfriend in jail for the rest
Of his life when she knows he is innocent or offered to view 5 bodies that her boyfriend had just murdered
As I have said I will give her the benefit of the doubt that she is just an evil liar
-
There is no evidence she is just a good liar
The jury was 10-2 have a poll of people on here and see what they have to say
I don't see the logic, but I respect your opinion.
-
So everyone who disagrees with Jeremy's version of events is a liar then?
-
You get a reaction because I have spent 3 days making the point mugford had no secret special information to prove JB commited the murders and then John comes out with rubbish like even if the jury knew mugford was getting a million pounds on JB's conviction they would still have found her guilty
I don't believe her and I will never believe her unless I saw any evidence
There is no evidence she is just a good liar
The jury was 10-2 have a poll of people on here and see what they have to say
If I get frustrated it's because a credible witness is not someone who gets a bonus for getting a result in court
You write ridiculous things like mugford didn't pervert the course of justice well I believe she did
Yes I am a grown women but I look for the truth in what is alleged you might try quoting on facts in future
I do despise mugford she has either put her ex boyfriend in jail for the rest
Of his life when she knows he is innocent or offered to view 5 bodies that her boyfriend had just murdered
As I have said I will give her the benefit of the doubt that she is just an evil liar
Prove she was lying! it works both ways!
Ive agreed shes despicable doesnt make her a liar!
You keep saying lets have a poll to see who thinks she was lying etc..... etc.... and its all bull because all it is a poll of people on the internet who have a limited knowledge to the facts!
They already had a poll in court and the jury believed her!
-
John do you know the date when apparently JB was laughing and told jm he should have been an actor?
Wasn't that straight after the murders like the next day.
Wouldn't you have thought the penny would have dropped by then?
And the next person that says poor mugford this or poor mugford that I am going to throw this iPhone at the wall and smash it
She volunteered to view the bodies of 2 children and 3 adults riddled with bullets
I wonder if she ate that night!
So much has been made of JB eating after finding out his whole family were dead
-
So everyone who disagrees with Jeremy's version of events is a liar then?
Or alternatively there could just be a single person who is lying? Food for thought perhaps.
-
And the next person that says poor mugford this or poor mugford that I am going to throw this iPhone at the wall and smash it
Aaaah poor poor Mugford. ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
John do you know the date when apparently JB was laughing and told jm he should have been an actor?
Wasn't that straight after the murders like the next day.
Wouldn't you have thought the penny would have dropped by then?
And the next person that says poor mugford this or poor mugford that I am going to throw this iPhone at the wall and smash it
She volunteered to view the bodies of 2 children and 3 adults riddled with bullets
I wonder if she ate that night!
So much has been made of JB eating after finding out his whole family were dead
Dont recall anyone saying poor Mugford! think at the very least most people think she profited from her experience but so have many other people in similar situations! the Boutflours have profited they took evidence from WHF dont see them been accused of perverting the course of justice!
I think a lot of times in bad bad situations people are capable of switching off or distancing themselves from what they know, i think this is what she did!
I was told once by a counsellor after experiencing something pretty bad to put those thoughts and feelings in an imaginary box and lock it, maybe she tried it too!
-
No I said let's have a poll who thinks the jury would have believed her if they new she had a deal for say a hundred thousand pounds in today's money
I can't prove she's lying but she can't prove she is telling the truth
I wonder how much she would want to do the lie detector now?
That's an interesting question
We could have a poll on how many people think she would do it
-
John do you know the date when apparently JB was laughing and told jm he should have been an actor?
Wasn't that straight after the murders like the next day.
Wouldn't you have thought the penny would have dropped by then?
And the next person that says poor mugford this or poor mugford that I am going to throw this iPhone at the wall and smash it
She volunteered to view the bodies of 2 children and 3 adults riddled with bullets
I wonder if she ate that night!
So much has been made of JB eating after finding out his whole family were dead
Jeremy called Julie Mugford later during the morning of 7 August 1985 to tell her that Sheila had gone mad and that a police car was coming to pick her up and bring her to the farmhouse. When she arrived there, she said he pulled her to one side and said: "I should have been an actor!".
So to answer your question Jackie, yes it was the same day.
-
No I said let's have a poll who thinks the jury would have believed her if they new she had a deal for say a hundred thousand pounds in today's money
I can't prove she's lying but she can't prove she is telling the truth
I wonder how much she would want to do the lie detector now?
That's an interesting question
We could have a poll on how many people think she would do it
You have to remember Jackie that much of what Mugford said would have been corroborated by her mother and others. I fear she has spoken much truth.
I wonder if any of Jeremy's other various girlfriends came out with the same story??
-
No I said let's have a poll who thinks the jury would have believed her if they new she had a deal for say a hundred thousand pounds in today's money
I can't prove she's lying but she can't prove she is telling the truth
I wonder how much she would want to do the lie detector now?
That's an interesting question
We could have a poll on how many people think she would do it
The newspaper article and monies earned has previously been put before the appeal judges who threw it out, take a look at 'Ground 5' of the 2002 Appeal Judgement.
-
No I said let's have a poll who thinks the jury would have believed her if they new she had a deal for say a hundred thousand pounds in today's money
I can't prove she's lying but she can't prove she is telling the truth
I wonder how much she would want to do the lie detector now?
That's an interesting question
We could have a poll on how many people think she would do it
But what purpose does it serve??? its just views of people that dont know her and never will!
As far as im aware JB has never tried getting proof that she lied or discrediting her in any way?? why not??
Internet polls prove nothing because we dont have all the facts!
JM getting money for her story to me wouldnt be something that would concern me as a juror because by the same token i would be aware that if JB was found not guilty he would inherit a lot of money so to me i would be thinking either way someone is going to profit so id go with who i believed!
-
I think that Julie Mugford came across as a very reliable witness. She was apparently able to ward off the attacks on her credibility by the defence Barrister. She is a smart girl, isn't she a teacher now?
-
I think that Julie Mugford came across as a very reliable witness. She was apparently able to ward off the attacks on her credibility by the defence Barrister. She is a smart girl, isn't she a teacher now?
I think she is a head teacher in a school in Canada.
-
I think that Julie Mugford came across as a very reliable witness. She was apparently able to ward off the attacks on her credibility by the defence Barrister. She is a smart girl, isn't she a teacher now?
I think she is a head teacher in a school in Canada.
There you go, beauty and brains...what a combination! ::)
-
I think that Julie Mugford came across as a very reliable witness. She was apparently able to ward off the attacks on her credibility by the defence Barrister. She is a smart girl, isn't she a teacher now?
I think she is a head teacher in a school in Canada.
There you go, beauty and brains...what a combination! ::)
Yep, it's something I have to live with everyday. ;)
-
You get a reaction because I have spent 3 days making the point mugford had no secret special information to prove JB commited the murders and then John comes out with rubbish like even if the jury knew mugford was getting a million pounds on JB's conviction they would still have found her guilty
I don't believe her and I will never believe her unless I saw any evidence
There is no evidence she is just a good liar
The jury was 10-2 have a poll of people on here and see what they have to say
If I get frustrated it's because a credible witness is not someone who gets a bonus for getting a result in court
You write ridiculous things like mugford didn't pervert the course of justice well I believe she did
Yes I am a grown women but I look for the truth in what is alleged you might try quoting on facts in future
I do despise mugford she has either put her ex boyfriend in jail for the rest
Of his life when she knows he is innocent or offered to view 5 bodies that her boyfriend had just murdered
As I have said I will give her the benefit of the doubt that she is just an evil liar
+1 Jackie
-
So joolz have you sat on a jury on a murder trial I have and it would certainly have swayed my decision if i knew someone would benefit financially if the accused were found guilty
But I am the sort of person that I would never give a guilty verdict unless I was sure and I had all the facts
John so we now accept the penny dropped with
Mugford the actual day of the murders when Jeremy was laughing about being a good actor
John do you know what day she viewed the bodies?
-
So joolz have you sat on a jury on a murder trial I have and it would certainly have swayed my decision if i knew someone would benefit financially if the accused were found guilty
But I am the sort of person that I would never give a guilty verdict unless I was sure and I had all the facts
Where's that wall-head-bang smiley?
It doesn't matter, the defence have taken this point about the newspaper article and payments to JM to appeal, it has been dismissed, end of story.
-
So joolz have you sat on a jury on a murder trial I have and it would certainly have swayed my decision if i knew someone would benefit financially if the accused were found guilty
But I am the sort of person that I would never give a guilty verdict unless I was sure and I had all the facts
John so we now accept the penny dropped with
Mugford the actual day of the murders when Jeremy was laughing about being a good actor
John do you know what day she viewed the bodies?
Jackie Jeremy would have profited also had he been found not guilty! either way one of them was going to profit!!! Ive just said id make a decision based on who i believed not based on the fact that the star witness might receive a payout!
Top and bottom of it is no proof exists that Jeremy is innocent, he had an unfair trial, his defense lawyers seem to have failed and and the police were shoddy! doesnt mean hes innocent!!
Id love a retrial honest i would but based on what ive seen/read i dont think the verdict would be any different unless new evidence comes to light!
JM was a disgrace! not doubting that!
-
Was JM only going to get a payout if the jury came back with a guilty verdict??
-
John you said mugfords story was corroborated by her mother and others so are you saying JB told her mother and friends about his part in the murders?
Or are you saying they corroborated what Mugfor said to them and was the friend she carried out the cheque book fraud with and was it the mother that stayed in the 5 star hotel paid for by the news of the world
I bet the mothers an interesting character to have produced such a charmer
-
Was JM only going to get a payout if the jury came back with a guilty verdict??
No.
According to Mike T anyway:
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,109.msg234.html#msg234
-
Was JM only going to get a payout if the jury came back with a guilty verdict??
No.
According to Mike T anyway:
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,109.msg234.html#msg234
Well she had no reason to lie then did she!
-
Thanx joolz so you are for a retrial too.
Hartley I understand your point the newspaper deal was bought up at the appeal and JB was turned down
Could I just remind you of appeal judges
Guilford 4
Birmingham 6
Could you explain what you mean END OF
Hartley how many appeal judges did the above go before and how many times were they turned down
I am exhausted zzzzzz
-
Thanx joolz so you are for a retrial too.
Hartley I understand your point the newspaper deal was bought up at the appeal and JB was turned down
Could I just remind you of appeal judges
Guilford 4
Birmingham 6
Could you explain what you mean END OF
Hartley how many appeal judges did the above go before and how many times were they turned down
I am exhausted zzzzzz
I'm exhausted too :P
On all of those other cases they didn't go to appeal on a ground which had already been dismissed, it needs to be new stuff, not just simply repeating the same lines over and over again.
The newspaper thing has been looked at, considered and dismissed, that's gone now.
-
Thanx joolz so you are for a retrial too.
Hartley I understand your point the newspaper deal was bought up at the appeal and JB was turned down
Could I just remind you of appeal judges
Guilford 4
Birmingham 6
Could you explain what you mean END OF
Hartley how many appeal judges did the above go before and how many times were they turned down
I am exhausted zzzzzz
Course im for a retrial! that family deserve this to be put to bed once and for all!
I dont however share your opinion that JB is innocent! i think no smoke without fire and the police probably got the right man! however id love to be proved wrong!
My worry is that a guilty man would be freed on a technicality but then again in this day and age hes served longer than a lot of murderers have anyway (still if he is guilty id like to see him banged up for rest of his life!)
I just think once and for all the evidence needs to be out in the open and all the speculation to end! at the end of the day theres a man out there whos twin boys were murdered he must be sick to death all all the circus surrounding his kids deaths!
-
A retrial wouldn't put it to bed, even if found guilty again, his right to appeal based on new evidence remains intact. This case will never end until JB is freed (however that may be) or he passes away.
Unless (if he is guilty) he chooses to confess of course.
-
A retrial wouldn't put it to bed, even if found guilty again, his right to appeal based on new evidence remains intact. This case will never end until JB is freed (however that may be) or he passes away.
Unless (if he is guilty) he chooses to confess of course.
Do you think he will be freed and acquited of all charges due to new evidence or just released because his conviction was unsafe??
-
Thanx joolz so you are for a retrial too.
Hartley I understand your point the newspaper deal was bought up at the appeal and JB was turned down
Could I just remind you of appeal judges
Guilford 4
Birmingham 6
Could you explain what you mean END OF
Hartley how many appeal judges did the above go before and how many times were they turned down
I am exhausted zzzzzz
Course im for a retrial! that family deserve this to be put to bed once and for all!
I dont however share your opinion that JB is innocent! i think no smoke without fire and the police probably got the right man! however id love to be proved wrong!
My worry is that a guilty man would be freed on a technicality but then again in this day and age hes served longer than a lot of murderers have anyway (still if he is guilty id like to see him banged up for rest of his life!)
I just think once and for all the evidence needs to be out in the open and all the speculation to end! at the end of the day theres a man out there whos twin boys were murdered he must be sick to death all all the circus surrounding his kids deaths!
I agree with you on that joolz. On one hand if he is guilty he deserves to be in prison for the rest of his life but if per chance he is innocent, I feel for his pain daily.
To reply to your last post, I cannot see any evidence that he is innocent...somebody prove me wrong...pleassssssse
-
A retrial wouldn't put it to bed, even if found guilty again, his right to appeal based on new evidence remains intact. This case will never end until JB is freed (however that may be) or he passes away.
Unless (if he is guilty) he chooses to confess of course.
Do you think he will be freed and acquited of all charges due to new evidence or just released because his conviction was unsafe??
Well I don't think he will be released at all, for the CCRC to say that every time they look at this case the evidence against JB appears stronger and stronger, it doesn't bode well for him.
I think if he was to be freed, it would be more likely that it's due the the European Court ruling on 'Whole Life Tarriffs' in conjunction with time already served.
-
A retrial wouldn't put it to bed, even if found guilty again, his right to appeal based on new evidence remains intact. This case will never end until JB is freed (however that may be) or he passes away.
Unless (if he is guilty) he chooses to confess of course.
Do you think he will be freed and acquited of all charges due to new evidence or just released because his conviction was unsafe??
Well I don't think he will be released at all, for the CCRC to say that every time they look at this case the evidence against JB appears stronger and stronger, it doesn't bode well for him.
I think if he was to be freed, it would be more likely that it's due the the European Court ruling on 'Whole Life Tarriffs' in conjunction with time already served.
Possibly.
When one considers that Abdelbaset Mohmed Ali al-Megrahi was given 27 years for killing everyone on board Pan Am flight 103, one wonders at Jeremy's sentence and vice-versa.
-
Hartley there is new evidence that has only just come to light in the last couple of months with regard to Robert Boutflours you know what that evidence is as you have made it clear you know the family.
It's interesting the outburst by that person the day after the documentary that appears to have disappeared now but was very aggressive
Every time someone comes on here who is convinced JB is guilty and gets really nasty and aggressive like horsey dave they seem to try to cause lots of trouble for a little while and disappear
Horseydaves personal attacks on mike were disgusting like calling him a pedophile it comes across so badly like mike is a thorn in the side. Why would someone do that to Mike?
-
A retrial wouldn't put it to bed, even if found guilty again, his right to appeal based on new evidence remains intact. This case will never end until JB is freed (however that may be) or he passes away.
Unless (if he is guilty) he chooses to confess of course.
Do you think he will be freed and acquited of all charges due to new evidence or just released because his conviction was unsafe??
Well I don't think he will be released at all, for the CCRC to say that every time they look at this case the evidence against JB appears stronger and stronger, it doesn't bode well for him.
I think if he was to be freed, it would be more likely that it's due the the European Court ruling on 'Whole Life Tarriffs' in conjunction with time already served.
Possibly.
When one considers that Abdelbaset Mohmed Ali al-Megrahi was given 27 years for killing everyone on board Pan Am flight 103, one wonders at Jeremy's sentence and vice-versa.
Yes, I wonder if Mr al-Megrahi now regrets his return to Libya :D
-
A retrial wouldn't put it to bed, even if found guilty again, his right to appeal based on new evidence remains intact. This case will never end until JB is freed (however that may be) or he passes away.
Unless (if he is guilty) he chooses to confess of course.
Do you think he will be freed and acquited of all charges due to new evidence or just released because his conviction was unsafe?? The CCRC have never said that !
Well I don't think he will be released at all, for the CCRC to say that every time they look at this case the evidence against JB appears stronger and stronger, it doesn't bode well for him.
I think if he was to be freed, it would be more likely that it's due the the European Court ruling on 'Whole Life Tarriffs' in conjunction with time already served.
Can you put it up were the CCRC said this ?
-
Hartley there is new evidence that has only just come to light in the last couple of months with regard to Robert Boutflours you know what that evidence is as you have made it clear you know the family.
It would be easier if you didn't speak in code.
It's interesting the outburst by that person the day after the documentary that appears to have disappeared now but was very aggressive
Every time someone comes on here who is convinced JB is guilty and gets really nasty and aggressive like horsey dave they seem to try to cause lots of trouble for a little while and disappear
Horseydaves personal attacks on mike were disgusting like calling him a pedophile it comes across so badly like mike is a thorn in the side. Why would someone do that to Mike?
What's all that got to do with me? ???
EDIT:
And I disagree that somebodies view dictates their aggressiveness or nastiness, it's up to the individual how they behave, really not sure what you're getting at. ???
-
Hartley there is new evidence that has only just come to light in the last couple of months with regard to Robert Boutflours you know what that evidence is as you have made it clear you know the family.
It's interesting the outburst by that person the day after the documentary that appears to have disappeared now but was very aggressive
Every time someone comes on here who is convinced JB is guilty and gets really nasty and aggressive like horsey dave they seem to try to cause lots of trouble for a little while and disappear
Horseydaves personal attacks on mike were disgusting like calling him a pedophile it comes across so badly like mike is a thorn in the side. Why would someone do that to Mike?
But you calling people ugly comeas across badly also!
Your always going to get the agrresive trouble causers on a forum its human nature! better to ignore than feed the troll i find!
Thought the documentary would have fetched more people to the forum to be honest .
-
I was away for a few days last weekend, didn't realise there was an outburst, what happened?
-
I was away for a few days last weekend, didn't realise there was an outburst, what happened?
Just someone got a bit personal with a few people, it was that insignificant cant even remember the posters name!
-
I was away for a few days last weekend, didn't realise there was an outburst, what happened?
Just someone got a bit personal with a few people, it was that insignificant cant even remember the posters name!
Fair enough. :-\
-
I was away for a few days last weekend, didn't realise there was an outburst, what happened?
Just someone got a bit personal with a few people, it was that insignificant cant even remember the posters name!
Fair enough. :-\
Sorry i cant remember any more!!! will try and find the threads!
-
I was away for a few days last weekend, didn't realise there was an outburst, what happened?
Just someone got a bit personal with a few people, it was that insignificant cant even remember the posters name!
Fair enough. :-\
Can you verify what you claim the CCRC said ?
-
520. or some big number..........
Finally the jury's verdicts were, in our judgment, ones that they were plainly entitled to reach on the evidence. We should perhaps add in fairness to the jury that the deeper we have delved into the available evidence the more likely it has seemed to us that the jury were right, but our views do not matter in this regard, it is the views of the jury that are paramount
-
Jon the words the case against JB were said in the appeal I don't have the exact sentence all I remember is it was the exact words were used in the turning down of the appeal of the Birmingham 6 and we know how guilty they were!
Do these judges ever apologise when the truth comes out?
-
520. or some big number..........
Finally the jury's verdicts were, in our judgment, ones that they were plainly entitled to reach on the evidence. We should perhaps add in fairness to the jury that the deeper we have delved into the available evidence the more likely it has seemed to us that the jury were right, but our views do not matter in this regard, it is the views of the jury that are paramount
Where do the CCRC say the evidence get's stronger and stronger here ? I agree with you Jackie !!
-
Jon, sorry i forgot that everything has to be exact to you. Shame on you Hartley ;D
-
Yes, I wonder if Mr al-Megrahi now regrets his return to Libya :D
I believe the simple answer to that is no.
Given the choice between dying in your own home or dying in HMP Barlinnie, Glasgow, I fear the choice is a simple one irrespective of the rebel onslaught in Libya.
-
520. or some big number..........
Finally the jury's verdicts were, in our judgment, ones that they were plainly entitled to reach on the evidence. We should perhaps add in fairness to the jury that the deeper we have delved into the available evidence the more likely it has seemed to us that the jury were right, but our views do not matter in this regard, it is the views of the jury that are paramount
Which ones were right? The 10 or the 2?
-
520. or some big number..........
Finally the jury's verdicts were, in our judgment, ones that they were plainly entitled to reach on the evidence. We should perhaps add in fairness to the jury that the deeper we have delved into the available evidence the more likely it has seemed to us that the jury were right, but our views do not matter in this regard, it is the views of the jury that are paramount
Which ones were right? The 10 or the 2?
One of the points the jury wanted to clarify was whether R. Boutflour would have been a beneficiary of the wills. He correctly said that he wasn't, but he what he didn't say was that his wife was, thereby he would inherit indirectly. This was obviously a sticking point with some of the jury.
-
I dont trust them Boutflours.
Where they investigated at all??
-
She might have thought he was in shock. I find your continual abuse of Julie Mugford to be quite disturbing. How come you make every excuse for JB and his behaviour? but JM is not afforded the same luxury.
I think it is because she got away with the crime of accessory after the fact and that she is considered a model charitable citizen in Canada where she lives. I don't think Jackie is abusing JM I think she is as many others are just disgusted that she got off scot free for perverting the course of justice by making a deal with the police. And by the way I'm no fan of JB.
I agree. There is something vaguely unsatisfactory about the way Julie "got away" with it all.
The thing is, I can understand her not believing Jeremy if he talked about killing his family. I can understand her ignoring him if he said "it's tonight or never" when he rang her the evening before the murders. I can understand her ignoring him if he phoned her in the night to say that something was wrong or whatever it was he said. What I can't understand is her reaction - or lack of it - when she was told that all the family members were dead.
Come on - even if she had dismissed his previous talk as idle gossip, she would have totally freaked out when she found out that the family were all dead. Well a normal person would have anyway.
-
She might have thought he was in shock. I find your continual abuse of Julie Mugford to be quite disturbing. How come you make every excuse for JB and his behaviour? but JM is not afforded the same luxury.
I think it is because she got away with the crime of accessory after the fact and that she is considered a model charitable citizen in Canada where she lives. I don't think Jackie is abusing JM I think she is as many others are just disgusted that she got off scot free for perverting the course of justice by making a deal with the police. And by the way I'm no fan of JB.
I agree. There is something vaguely unsatisfactory about the way Julie "got away" with it all.
The thing is, I can understand her not believing Jeremy if he talked about killing his family. I can understand her ignoring him if he said "it's tonight or never" when he rang her the evening before the murders. I can understand her ignoring him if he phoned her in the night to say that something was wrong or whatever it was he said. What I can't understand is her reaction - or lack of it - when she was told that all the family members were dead.
Come on - even if she had dismissed his previous talk as idle gossip, she would have totally freaked out when she found out that the family were all dead. Well a normal person would have anyway.
Did she not freak out when the cops called for her?
-
I dont trust them Boutflours.
Where they investigated at all??
Don't know about them being investigated, but they were 'shown the door' a few times by the policeman in charge at the time (can't remember his name sorry) for being meddlesome. Plus the jury must have wondered why R. Boutflour was so intent on incriminating his nephew, hence the query regarding the will. I wonder if the police ever looked into the incident where Peter Eaton punched Nevill, giving him a black eye? Obviously, not a close family!
-
She might have thought he was in shock. I find your continual abuse of Julie Mugford to be quite disturbing. How come you make every excuse for JB and his behaviour? but JM is not afforded the same luxury.
I think it is because she got away with the crime of accessory after the fact and that she is considered a model charitable citizen in Canada where she lives. I don't think Jackie is abusing JM I think she is as many others are just disgusted that she got off scot free for perverting the course of justice by making a deal with the police. And by the way I'm no fan of JB.
I agree. There is something vaguely unsatisfactory about the way Julie "got away" with it all.
The thing is, I can understand her not believing Jeremy if he talked about killing his family. I can understand her ignoring him if he said "it's tonight or never" when he rang her the evening before the murders. I can understand her ignoring him if he phoned her in the night to say that something was wrong or whatever it was he said. What I can't understand is her reaction - or lack of it - when she was told that all the family members were dead.
Come on - even if she had dismissed his previous talk as idle gossip, she would have totally freaked out when she found out that the family were all dead. Well a normal person would have anyway.
Did she not freak out when the cops called for her?
I don't know. I gather that Jeremy rang her very early to tell her the news? Her flatmates must have been around. Surely she would wake at least one of them and freak out about it.
-
Jeremy rang Julie before the police got into the house - presumably to tell her that Sheila had a gun and the police were there. Did that not ring alarm bells for her? After all, hadn't Jeremy told her that he would kill the family and blame it on Sheila?
-
She might have thought he was in shock. I find your continual abuse of Julie Mugford to be quite disturbing. How come you make every excuse for JB and his behaviour? but JM is not afforded the same luxury.
I think it is because she got away with the crime of accessory after the fact and that she is considered a model charitable citizen in Canada where she lives. I don't think Jackie is abusing JM I think she is as many others are just disgusted that she got off scot free for perverting the course of justice by making a deal with the police. And by the way I'm no fan of JB.
I agree. There is something vaguely unsatisfactory about the way Julie "got away" with it all.
The thing is, I can understand her not believing Jeremy if he talked about killing his family. I can understand her ignoring him if he said "it's tonight or never" when he rang her the evening before the murders. I can understand her ignoring him if he phoned her in the night to say that something was wrong or whatever it was he said. What I can't understand is her reaction - or lack of it - when she was told that all the family members were dead.
Come on - even if she had dismissed his previous talk as idle gossip, she would have totally freaked out when she found out that the family were all dead. Well a normal person would have anyway.
Did she not freak out when the cops called for her?
I don't know. I gather that Jeremy rang her very early to tell her the news? Her flatmates must have been around. Surely she would wake at least one of them and freak out about it.
Definitely! Would love to have been privy to her conversations with the police who drove her. Don't suppose it's ever been recorded how she was reacting on the journey or at what stage she new what had happened (assuming she didn't already know via Jeremy).
-
I dont trust them Boutflours.
Where they investigated at all??
Don't know about them being investigated, but they were 'shown the door' a few times by the policeman in charge at the time (can't remember his name sorry) for being meddlesome. Plus the jury must have wondered why R. Boutflour was so intent on incriminating his nephew, hence the query regarding the will. I wonder if the police ever looked into the incident where Peter Eaton punched Nevill, giving him a black eye? Obviously, not a close family!
Hmmm lets blame them then!!
-
Don't know about them being investigated, but they were 'shown the door' a few times by the policeman in charge at the time (can't remember his name sorry) for being meddlesome. Plus the jury must have wondered why R. Boutflour was so intent on incriminating his nephew, hence the query regarding the will. I wonder if the police ever looked into the incident where Peter Eaton punched Nevill, giving him a black eye? Obviously, not a close family!
Strange isn't it yet Nevill and he were partners in Eaton's farm.
-
She might have thought he was in shock. I find your continual abuse of Julie Mugford to be quite disturbing. How come you make every excuse for JB and his behaviour? but JM is not afforded the same luxury.
I think it is because she got away with the crime of accessory after the fact and that she is considered a model charitable citizen in Canada where she lives. I don't think Jackie is abusing JM I think she is as many others are just disgusted that she got off scot free for perverting the course of justice by making a deal with the police. And by the way I'm no fan of JB.
I agree. There is something vaguely unsatisfactory about the way Julie "got away" with it all.
The thing is, I can understand her not believing Jeremy if he talked about killing his family. I can understand her ignoring him if he said "it's tonight or never" when he rang her the evening before the murders. I can understand her ignoring him if he phoned her in the night to say that something was wrong or whatever it was he said. What I can't understand is her reaction - or lack of it - when she was told that all the family members were dead.
Come on - even if she had dismissed his previous talk as idle gossip, she would have totally freaked out when she found out that the family were all dead. Well a normal person would have anyway.
Did she not freak out when the cops called for her?
I don't know. I gather that Jeremy rang her very early to tell her the news? Her flatmates must have been around. Surely she would wake at least one of them and freak out about it.
Definitely! Would love to have been privy to her conversations with the police who drove her. Don't suppose it's ever been recorded how she was reacting on the journey or at what stage she new what had happened (assuming she didn't already know via Jeremy).
I don't know if she was told they were all dead by the police, but wouldn't you expect her to react very badly to that considering the conversation she allegedly had with Jeremy the night before, and considering that he had repeatedly said he was going to kill his family and blame Sheila? You'd think she'd at least want to take a friend.
What did she do? She went to Jeremy's house and went upstairs with him on her own.
-
Jeremy rang Julie before the police got into the house - presumably to tell her that Sheila had a gun and the police were there. Did that not ring alarm bells for her? After all, hadn't Jeremy told her that he would kill the family and blame it on Sheila?
That's right Kaldin. Didn't the flatmates say it was just after 3am and even before Nevill was supposed to have alerted him?????
I bet she needed a change of underwear that day! ;D
-
Jeremy rang Julie before the police got into the house - presumably to tell her that Sheila had a gun and the police were there. Did that not ring alarm bells for her? After all, hadn't Jeremy told her that he would kill the family and blame it on Sheila?
That's right Kaldin. Didn't the flatmates say it was just after 3am and even before Nevill was supposed to have alerted him?????
I bet she needed a change of underwear that day! ;D
Indeed! :-[
-
Jeremy rang Julie before the police got into the house - presumably to tell her that Sheila had a gun and the police were there. Did that not ring alarm bells for her? After all, hadn't Jeremy told her that he would kill the family and blame it on Sheila?
That's right Kaldin. Didn't the flatmates say it was just after 3am and even before Nevill was supposed to have alerted him?????
I bet she needed a change of underwear that day! ;D
I mean that Jeremy rang Julie again from a call box when the police were outside the house. He must have told her that Sheila was in the house with a gun and that they didn't know what had happened to his family.
-
I think that Julie Mugford came across as a very reliable witness. She was apparently able to ward off the attacks on her credibility by the defence Barrister. She is a smart girl, isn't she a teacher now?
I think she is a head teacher in a school in Canada.
yes he indeed did ward of attacks by the defence, by continually breaking down into tears at every oppurtunity when they questioned her, making it impossible for them to have a fair crack, but like magic regained comnposure when it was the prosecution turn.
-
Jeremy rang Julie before the police got into the house - presumably to tell her that Sheila had a gun and the police were there. Did that not ring alarm bells for her? After all, hadn't Jeremy told her that he would kill the family and blame it on Sheila?
That's right Kaldin. Didn't the flatmates say it was just after 3am and even before Nevill was supposed to have alerted him?????
I bet she needed a .............that day! ;D
Gratuitous sleaze is best left unsaid.
-
Julie came forward with her allegations against JB a month or so after the murders - did her mother Mary Mugford give a statement during the first few weeks?
Or perhaps more importantly, did she confide in her mother before she went to the police?
-
If like John said when the penny dropped and realised JB was the killer when he allegedly laughed and said he should have been an actress them to show the depths of her acting skills she would have been acting at the mortuary she must have been acting at the funerals and on the holidays so the trial would have been a breeze.
With reference to Mugford having turned her life around being intelligent and ending up being a headteacher anyone remember a certain mr Harold shipman he was quite intelligent too
I rest my case
-
She might have thought he was in shock. I find your continual abuse of Julie Mugford to be quite disturbing. How come you make every excuse for JB and his behaviour? but JM is not afforded the same luxury.
I think it is because she got away with the crime of accessory after the fact and that she is considered a model charitable citizen in Canada where she lives. I don't think Jackie is abusing JM I think she is as many others are just disgusted that she got off scot free for perverting the course of justice by making a deal with the police. And by the way I'm no fan of JB.
I agree. There is something vaguely unsatisfactory about the way Julie "got away" with it all.
The thing is, I can understand her not believing Jeremy if he talked about killing his family. I can understand her ignoring him if he said "it's tonight or never" when he rang her the evening before the murders. I can understand her ignoring him if he phoned her in the night to say that something was wrong or whatever it was he said. What I can't understand is her reaction - or lack of it - when she was told that all the family members were dead.
Come on - even if she had dismissed his previous talk as idle gossip, she would have totally freaked out when she found out that the family were all dead. Well a normal person would have anyway.
Did she not freak out when the cops called for her?
I don't know. I gather that Jeremy rang her very early to tell her the news? Her flatmates must have been around. Surely she would wake at least one of them and freak out about it.
But she didn´t. She wanted to go to sleep - and told Jeremy to go back to bed...
Her account doesn´t add up.
A man has spent 26 years behind bars largely because of her testimony, which doesn´t make sense on some levels. I have a big problem with that.
-
She might have thought he was in shock. I find your continual abuse of Julie Mugford to be quite disturbing. How come you make every excuse for JB and his behaviour? but JM is not afforded the same luxury.
I think it is because she got away with the crime of accessory after the fact and that she is considered a model charitable citizen in Canada where she lives. I don't think Jackie is abusing JM I think she is as many others are just disgusted that she got off scot free for perverting the course of justice by making a deal with the police. And by the way I'm no fan of JB.
I agree. There is something vaguely unsatisfactory about the way Julie "got away" with it all.
The thing is, I can understand her not believing Jeremy if he talked about killing his family. I can understand her ignoring him if he said "it's tonight or never" when he rang her the evening before the murders. I can understand her ignoring him if he phoned her in the night to say that something was wrong or whatever it was he said. What I can't understand is her reaction - or lack of it - when she was told that all the family members were dead.
Come on - even if she had dismissed his previous talk as idle gossip, she would have totally freaked out when she found out that the family were all dead. Well a normal person would have anyway.
Did she not freak out when the cops called for her?
I don't know. I gather that Jeremy rang her very early to tell her the news? Her flatmates must have been around. Surely she would wake at least one of them and freak out about it.
But she didn´t. She wanted to go to sleep - and told Jeremy to go back to bed...
Her account doesn´t add up.
A man has spent 26 years behind bars largely because of her testimony, which doesn´t make sense on some levels. I have a big problem with that.
I'm now wondering after which phone call Julie told Jeremy to go back to sleep, it must have been the first one? It would make more sense. What time was the 2nd one? Her flat mates must have been awoken by both calls. Did they mention that and describe her reactions?
-
She might have thought he was in shock. I find your continual abuse of Julie Mugford to be quite disturbing. How come you make every excuse for JB and his behaviour? but JM is not afforded the same luxury.
I think it is because she got away with the crime of accessory after the fact and that she is considered a model charitable citizen in Canada where she lives. I don't think Jackie is abusing JM I think she is as many others are just disgusted that she got off scot free for perverting the course of justice by making a deal with the police. And by the way I'm no fan of JB.
I agree. There is something vaguely unsatisfactory about the way Julie "got away" with it all.
The thing is, I can understand her not believing Jeremy if he talked about killing his family. I can understand her ignoring him if he said "it's tonight or never" when he rang her the evening before the murders. I can understand her ignoring him if he phoned her in the night to say that something was wrong or whatever it was he said. What I can't understand is her reaction - or lack of it - when she was told that all the family members were dead.
Come on - even if she had dismissed his previous talk as idle gossip, she would have totally freaked out when she found out that the family were all dead. Well a normal person would have anyway.
Did she not freak out when the cops called for her?
I don't know. I gather that Jeremy rang her very early to tell her the news? Her flatmates must have been around. Surely she would wake at least one of them and freak out about it.
But she didn´t. She wanted to go to sleep - and told Jeremy to go back to bed...
Her account doesn´t add up.
A man has spent 26 years behind bars largely because of her testimony, which doesn´t make sense on some levels. I have a big problem with that.
I'm referring to the call which Jeremy made to her later - the one when he called from a phone box to tell her what was happening at the house. I think he called her about 5.30 or something like that.
-
the police would have had to have been sure that colin was the twins father etc, red tape and all that, before telling him
-
If the police were in conversation with a person inside WHF, ie Sheila, they could have brought Colin Cafell to WHF to reason with her (you see it in films all the time...............)
-
I can't understand why the police didn't contact Colin, till hours after it was all over
Nor can I. His children were in that house so you'd think they'd try and contact him very early on - before they knew what had happened.
-
She might have thought he was in shock. I find your continual abuse of Julie Mugford to be quite disturbing. How come you make every excuse for JB and his behaviour? but JM is not afforded the same luxury.
I think it is because she got away with the crime of accessory after the fact and that she is considered a model charitable citizen in Canada where she lives. I don't think Jackie is abusing JM I think she is as many others are just disgusted that she got off scot free for perverting the course of justice by making a deal with the police. And by the way I'm no fan of JB.
I agree. There is something vaguely unsatisfactory about the way Julie "got away" with it all.
The thing is, I can understand her not believing Jeremy if he talked about killing his family. I can understand her ignoring him if he said "it's tonight or never" when he rang her the evening before the murders. I can understand her ignoring him if he phoned her in the night to say that something was wrong or whatever it was he said. What I can't understand is her reaction - or lack of it - when she was told that all the family members were dead.
Come on - even if she had dismissed his previous talk as idle gossip, she would have totally freaked out when she found out that the family were all dead. Well a normal person would have anyway.
Did she not freak out when the cops called for her?
I don't know. I gather that Jeremy rang her very early to tell her the news? Her flatmates must have been around. Surely she would wake at least one of them and freak out about it.
But she didn´t. She wanted to go to sleep - and told Jeremy to go back to bed...
Her account doesn´t add up.
A man has spent 26 years behind bars largely because of her testimony, which doesn´t make sense on some levels. I have a big problem with that.
I'm now wondering after which phone call Julie told Jeremy to go back to sleep, it must have been the first one? It would make more sense. What time was the 2nd one? Her flat mates must have been awoken by both calls. Did they mention that and describe her reactions?
Why would he phone her in the first place? Just to tell her that things are going to plan?
-
the police couldnt have told him officially over the phone, they would have to visit colin at home to break the news
-
the police couldnt have told him officially over the phone, they would have to visit colin at home to break the news
Even though his two children were in what they thought might be a hostage situation?
-
The less non police personnel at WHF, the better.....................
-
are we talking about why the police left it so long before telling colin they were all dead?
or why didnt they tell him as soon as the story was unfolding at the farm?
-
are we talking about why the police left it so long before telling colin they were all dead?
or why didnt they tell him as soon as the story was unfolding at the farm?
Both.
-
The less non police personnel at WHF, the better.....................
He wouldn't have been at the farm quickly, he was in London. They didn't seem to mind Jeremy ringing Julie Mugford and arranging for a car to bring her to Goldhanger, and she wasn't even related.
-
colin may not have been mentioned much at this stage, and the fact that he and sheila had split up may have put the police off bringing colin to the farm...maybe
-
The less non police personnel at WHF, the better.....................
He wouldn't have been at the farm quickly, he was in London. They didn't seem to mind Jeremy ringing Julie Mugford and arranging for a car to bring her to Goldhanger, and she wasn't even related.
She wasn't driven to WHF though, was she?
-
The less non police personnel at WHF, the better.....................
He wouldn't have been at the farm quickly, he was in London. They didn't seem to mind Jeremy ringing Julie Mugford and arranging for a car to bring her to Goldhanger, and she wasn't even related.
She wasn't driven to WHF though, was she?
She was driven to Essex from London by the police, and yet they didn't bother to try to find Colin.
-
colin may not have been mentioned much at this stage, and the fact that he and sheila had split up may have put the police off bringing colin to the farm...maybe
They were his children!
It seems to me that Colin was ignored by everyone - the family, the police ...
-
i dont know kaldin why the police took the decision they did, we can only speculate
-
colin may not have been mentioned much at this stage, and the fact that he and sheila had split up may have put the police off bringing colin to the farm...maybe
They were his children!
It seems to me that Colin was ignored by everyone - the family, the police ...
agreed kaldin colin has been forgotten about and ignored, in colins book he remembers one of the family suggesting sheila should only have black flowers on her cofin at the funeral, isnt that terrible? poor sheila.
-
The less non police personnel at WHF, the better.....................
He wouldn't have been at the farm quickly, he was in London. They didn't seem to mind Jeremy ringing Julie Mugford and arranging for a car to bring her to Goldhanger, and she wasn't even related.
She wasn't driven to WHF though, was she?
She was driven to Essex from London by the police, and yet they didn't bother to try to find Colin.
Julie was taken by the Met to a meeting point with Essex Police and driven the rest of the way by them. I just assumed same thing happened with Colin.
-
colin may not have been mentioned much at this stage, and the fact that he and sheila had split up may have put the police off bringing colin to the farm...maybe
They were his children!
It seems to me that Colin was ignored by everyone - the family, the police ...
agreed kaldin colin has been forgotten about and ignored, in colins book he remembers one of the family suggesting sheila should only have black flowers on her cofin at the funeral, isnt that terrible? poor sheila.
That's awful! I wonder which family member suggested that?!
-
will have to look in the book, colin also worried that they might accidently on purpose spill her ashes so he made sure a friend of his collected them for him, so...did they really suspect jeremy from the begining? it doesnt sound that way when you read the above does it?
-
colin may not have been mentioned much at this stage, and the fact that he and sheila had split up may have put the police off bringing colin to the farm...maybe
They were his children!
It seems to me that Colin was ignored by everyone - the family, the police ...
agreed kaldin colin has been forgotten about and ignored, in colins book he remembers one of the family suggesting sheila should only have black flowers on her cofin at the funeral, isnt that terrible? poor sheila.
You mean because they thought she killed everyone and deserved black flowers for doing so? If so, yes that is awful.
-
yes, thats the impression i got when i read the book
-
I am, of course, ignorant of correct police procedure, but, maybe EP didn't want anyone else to be at WHF either during or after the siege so they couldn't be observed doing whatever they did, or didn't do, if you get my drift...............
-
yes, thats the impression i got when i read the book
That's so sad. Even if Sheila did do it, she did it because she was ill.
-
I am, of course, ignorant of correct police procedure, but, maybe EP didn't want anyone else to be at WHF either during or after the siege so they couldn't be observed doing whatever they did, or didn't do, if you get my drift...............
You'd think they'd inform him as the father of the children though. He had custody of them at the time - Sheila was only on holiday with them. They had ample time to ask Jeremy about who the father of the children was.
-
wouldnt the police have had to deal with the crime scene and know officially that everyone was dead before telling colin? colin was in london at the time too, so it would have taken the police a while before getting to his address? i dont think they would have taken colin to whf as he and sheila had split and the police maybe thought his presence could have antagonised her .
-
wouldnt the police have had to deal with the crime scene and know officially that everyone was dead before telling colin? colin was in london at the time too, so it would have taken the police a while before getting to his address? i dont think they would have taken colin to whf as he and sheila had split and the police maybe thought his presence could have antagonised her .
They let Jeremy ring Julie Mugford before they knew everyone was dead. I think Colin had a right to know what was going on. Jeremy knew where he lived.
I was just wondering about the funerals. Sheila was cremated with her parents, and the boys were buried in London (or cremated). I wonder how Colin felt about that - separating Sheila from the children.
Also, I suddenly felt a terrible pang for Sheila - whether she was a victim or the perpetrator. What a sad story it really is.
-
I think that Sheila's ashes were put in with the boys.......
-
sheila is with the twins at highgate cemetary, her ashes are intered with them, her ashes were also present at the altar when the twins funeral was held
-
wouldnt the police have had to deal with the crime scene and know officially that everyone was dead before telling colin? colin was in london at the time too, so it would have taken the police a while before getting to his address? i dont think they would have taken colin to whf as he and sheila had split and the police maybe thought his presence could have antagonised her .
I think as he was the father he should have been informed straight away about what was unfolding, even by Jeremy, he should have phoned him too. He had a right to know. How would the police know that his presence would have antagonised Sheila?
-
sheila is with the twins at highgate cemetary, her ashes are intered with them, her ashes were also present at the altar when the twins funeral was held
Oh I see, thanks. But she had a separate funeral to them.
-
How would Sheila know he was there?
i think your on to something here sarann, sheila was supposed to have been dead already at this time ?
-
How would Sheila know he was there?
Good point Sarann.
It was for his sons' sakes that he should have been there.
-
sheila is with the twins at highgate cemetary, her ashes are intered with them, her ashes were also present at the altar when the twins funeral was held
Oh I see, thanks. But she had a separate funeral to them.
yes sheilas funeral was held with her parents, the twins werent even mentioned at the service and sheila only once, all the talk was about june. disgraceful in my opinion.
-
How would Sheila know he was there?
i think your on to something here sarann, sheila was supposed to have been dead already at this time ?
Yes, but nobody knew that until later. I still think Colin should have been informed though. Julie Mugford knew about his boys before he did!
-
what im thinking is this kaldin, if sheila was alive when the police arrived that could answer why they didnt bring colin to whf, his presence may have antagonised her? thats if she was alive mind, depends what side of the fence your on ;) hmmm one to ponder that, what do you think?
-
Id like to read Colins book but havnt managed to find it.
-
what im thinking is this kaldin, if sheila was alive when the police arrived that could answer why they didnt bring colin to whf, his presence may have antagonised her? thats if she was alive mind, depends what side of the fence your on ;) hmmm one to ponder that, what do you think?
I guess so, but it seems to me that nobody thought about him. Jeremy didn't and neither did the police.
-
i will post you my copy tomorrow to lend if tha fancies joolz?
-
i will post you my copy tomorrow to lend if tha fancies joolz?
Really? You sure? That would be brill!
-
what im thinking is this kaldin, if sheila was alive when the police arrived that could answer why they didnt bring colin to whf, his presence may have antagonised her? thats if she was alive mind, depends what side of the fence your on ;) hmmm one to ponder that, what do you think?
I guess so, but it seems to me that nobody thought about him. Jeremy didn't and neither did the police.
yes, he was forgotten about, the family even forgot about him as they were grappling over money, he should have got something he lost the most,even though no amount of money would have compensated for his twins
-
i will post you my copy tomorrow to lend if tha fancies joolz?
Really? You sure? That would be brill!
of course, you will enjoy it joolz its a good read, the best book i have read in while
-
will have to look in the book, colin also worried that they might accidently on purpose spill her ashes so he made sure a friend of his collected them for him, so...did they really suspect jeremy from the begining? it doesnt sound that way when you read the above does it?
No, it doesn't, does it Andrea. Yet, nevertheless, the family seem to have been intent on suggesting to the police that JB was the killer almost from the outset and prior to the funeral.
-
what im thinking is this kaldin, if sheila was alive when the police arrived that could answer why they didnt bring colin to whf, his presence may have antagonised her? thats if she was alive mind, depends what side of the fence your on ;) hmmm one to ponder that, what do you think?
I guess so, but it seems to me that nobody thought about him. Jeremy didn't and neither did the police.
yes, he was forgotten about, the family even forgot about him as they were grappling over money, he should have got something he lost the most,even though no amount of money would have compensated for his twins
Yes. Mike said that the twins couldn't inherit because they were too young, but I don't understand that. He could have got the lot in theory I guess.
-
i will post you my copy tomorrow to lend if tha fancies joolz?
Really? You sure? That would be brill!
of course, you will enjoy it joolz its a good read, the best book i have read in while
Thanks!! Will inbox you my details!!
-
yes i dont understand one either. too young? doesnt make sense does it?
-
i will post you my copy tomorrow to lend if tha fancies joolz?
Really? You sure? That would be brill!
of course, you will enjoy it joolz its a good read, the best book i have read in while
Thanks!! Will inbox you my details!!
ok i will post it tomorrow
-
will have to look in the book, colin also worried that they might accidently on purpose spill her ashes so he made sure a friend of his collected them for him, so...did they really suspect jeremy from the begining? it doesnt sound that way when you read the above does it?
No, it doesn't, does it Andrea. Yet, nevertheless, the family seem to have been intent on suggesting to the police that JB was the killer almost from the outset and prior to the funeral.
They were probably seething that JB stood to inherit the lot! The only way for him not to was for him to be convicted.
-
yes i dont understand one either. too young? doesnt make sense does it?
No it doesn't. In the event that several people die and they don't know the order of death, I thought it was deemed that the youngest died last. That would mean the boys died last. Sheila would have inherited from her parents, and the boys would inherit from her, and then Colin would inherit from them.
I guess there's a good reason why that didn't happen though - pity really.
-
what im thinking is this kaldin, if sheila was alive when the police arrived that could answer why they didnt bring colin to whf, his presence may have antagonised her? thats if she was alive mind, depends what side of the fence your on ;) hmmm one to ponder that, what do you think?
I guess so, but it seems to me that nobody thought about him. Jeremy didn't and neither did the police.
To be fair Kaldin, JB may have assumed that the police had, or were in the process of contacting him as it was so obvious he should have been there. And to be fair to the police maybe they couldn't get hold of him
Hmmm, maybe. It just seems to me that everything was about the Bamber's relatives, and nobody took much notice of Colin and his terrible loss. Maybe I'm just imagining that.
-
you're not imagining it kaldin, he was ignored.the family were only concerned with themselves
-
you're not imagining it kaldin, he was ignored.the family were only concerned with themselves
I'm glad it's not just me then. :D
-
but colin did get lots of support from herbie flowers the guitarist with the group sky, he advised colin on what to do about the press hounding him and also gave him emotional support, herbie was close to the twins and colin and attended the funerals
-
yes i dont understand one either. too young? doesnt make sense does it?
No it doesn't. In the event that several people die and they don't know the order of death, I thought it was deemed that the youngest died last. That would mean the boys died last. Sheila would have inherited from her parents, and the boys would inherit from her, and then Colin would inherit from them.
I guess there's a good reason why that didn't happen though - pity really.
Perhaps the family had already worked that one out, hence their scramble to incriminate Jeremy. Don't forget their accountant was with them when they rummaged through the farm. I mean who on earth takes an accountant with them to go searching through belongings? They must have been thinking 'money' from the start.
-
but colin did get lots of support from herbie flowers the guitarist with the group sky, he advised colin on what to do about the press hounding him and also gave him emotional support, herbie was close to the twins and colin and attended the funerals
Wasn't Colin in a relationship with Herbie Flowers daughter?
-
yes he was, he is now with a bbc radio presenter, i forgot her name though!!
-
yes i dont understand one either. too young? doesnt make sense does it?
No it doesn't. In the event that several people die and they don't know the order of death, I thought it was deemed that the youngest died last. That would mean the boys died last. Sheila would have inherited from her parents, and the boys would inherit from her, and then Colin would inherit from them.
I guess there's a good reason why that didn't happen though - pity really.
Perhaps the family had already worked that one out, hence their scramble to incriminate Jeremy. Don't forget their accountant was with them when they rummaged through the farm. I mean who on earth takes an accountant with them to go searching through belongings? They must have been thinking 'money' from the start.
yeah they were greedy, they sound like a right bunch dont they?
-
Have you read his book Kaldin? It's worth reading - out of print but available online or at your library/by transfer!
No I haven't read it. I'd like to though.
-
yes i dont understand one either. too young? doesnt make sense does it?
No it doesn't. In the event that several people die and they don't know the order of death, I thought it was deemed that the youngest died last. That would mean the boys died last. Sheila would have inherited from her parents, and the boys would inherit from her, and then Colin would inherit from them.
I guess there's a good reason why that didn't happen though - pity really.
Perhaps the family had already worked that one out, hence their scramble to incriminate Jeremy. Don't forget their accountant was with them when they rummaged through the farm. I mean who on earth takes an accountant with them to go searching through belongings? They must have been thinking 'money' from the start.
yeah they were greedy, they sound like a right bunch dont they?
I'll say! :o
-
yes i dont understand one either. too young? doesnt make sense does it?
No it doesn't. In the event that several people die and they don't know the order of death, I thought it was deemed that the youngest died last. That would mean the boys died last. Sheila would have inherited from her parents, and the boys would inherit from her, and then Colin would inherit from them.
I guess there's a good reason why that didn't happen though - pity really.
:'(
Perhaps the family had already worked that one out, hence their scramble to incriminate Jeremy. Don't forget their accountant was with them when they rummaged through the farm. I mean who on earth takes an accountant with them to go searching through belongings? They must have been thinking 'money' from the start.
Wasn't the accountant the executor of the estate or will or whatever you call it?
-
Something I just picked up on you said the funeral was all about June and didn't mention Sheila really I bet the relatives arranged the funerals because I can imagine Jeremy would have been useless and that just goes along with what the relatives thought of Sheila and jeremy being adopted as if they didn't accept them ever. You almost feel this extreme jealousy of this beautiful delicate young girl and the tall dark handsome boy.
Something sinister about those relatives when I was speaking to the old couple at the caravan park saying they didn't like the owners but looking over there shoulder worried they might be heard.
If Jeremy was stitched up I don't think he was equipped to deal with that lot altogether they would have run rings around him
-
Wow the relatives are taking a beating tonight.
There is of course the other possibility that they are simply grief stricken family who suspected that Jeremy was responsible. In which case their actions and behavior could be considered quite appropriate, in fact perhaps even a little reserved.
Seems like a very easy target, and let's face it, they didn't kill anybody.
Just saying. :-\
-
Have you read his book Kaldin? It's worth reading - out of print but available online or at your library/by transfer!
I got it from the library many years ago. I found it strangely haunting to read. I'm sure I met him some time ago, but I can't remember where. My friends would probably know him, they live around Newquay area and are artists. I'll have to ask them next time I see them. He is a very popular artist. But I get the impression that he just wants to leave those terrible events at WHF in the past. As he said once, "Nobody knows me down here and I'm happy to keep it that way".
-
Hartley as you know the relatives were you aware of why Peter eaton punched Neville because I think I know but I would not put it on here unless I knew for certain and would you say the relatives were having serious money problems at the time of the murders
-
Hartley as you know the relatives were you aware of why Peter eaton punched Neville because I think I know but I would not put it on here unless I knew for certain and would you say the relatives were having serious money problems at the time of the murders
I've got nothing I want to add. Feel free to post on any subject, don't let me stop you.
-
The time appears to be anything from 3-3.30am. I think Julie said 3.30 initially
Her flatmates said that the time was nearer 3am.
If the police were in conversation with a person inside WHF, ie Sheila, they could have brought Colin Cafell to WHF to reason with her (you see it in films all the time...............)
I think it was a one-way conversation by the police with the response being silent.
Re the punch-up between Nevill and Peter Eaton, could it have been over the farm where the Eaton's lived and in which Nevill had a secret 50% share?
Anyone got a link to Colin Caffell's book?
-
Its been said that the assault on Ralph by PE was due to an argument over a land deal.Apparantly,Ralph purchased some land previously owned by the Eatons with the intention of selling it back to them when they could afford it.It has been suggested that they were struggling with finances.
Please note,this is not my opinion.It is contained in the book by Scott Lomax.
-
The time appears to be anything from 3-3.30am. I think Julie said 3.30 initially
Her flatmates said that the time was nearer 3am.
If the police were in conversation with a person inside WHF, ie Sheila, they could have brought Colin Cafell to WHF to reason with her (you see it in films all the time...............)
I think it was a one-way conversation by the police with the response being silent.
Re the punch-up between Nevill and Peter Eaton, could it have been over the farm where the Eaton's lived and in which Nevill had a secret 50% share?
Anyone got a link to Colin Caffell's book?
I thought it was Robert Boutflour who punched Ralph? Let me just say that "conversation" seems to be a strange word to use when talking to someone who does not answer? Why didn't they consistently use the word "challenge" like they did later.
-
The time appears to be anything from 3-3.30am. I think Julie said 3.30 initially
Her flatmates said that the time was nearer 3am.
If the police were in conversation with a person inside WHF, ie Sheila, they could have brought Colin Cafell to WHF to reason with her (you see it in films all the time...............)
I think it was a one-way conversation by the police with the response being silent.
Re the punch-up between Nevill and Peter Eaton, could it have been over the farm where the Eaton's lived and in which Nevill had a secret 50% share?
Anyone got a link to Colin Caffell's book?
I thought it was Robert Boutflour who punched Ralph? Let me just say that "conversation" seems to be a strange word to use when talking to someone who does not answer? Why didn't they consistently use the word "challenge" like they did later.
+1 for hitting the nail on the head, grahame
-
Hartley as you know the relatives were you aware of why Peter eaton punched Neville because I think I know but I would not put it on here unless I knew for certain and would you say the relatives were having serious money problems at the time of the murders
Was that what prompted them to move into WHF within weeks of the masacre there?
-
Hartley as you know the relatives were you aware of why Peter eaton punched Neville because I think I know but I would not put it on here unless I knew for certain and would you say the relatives were having serious money problems at the time of the murders
Was that what prompted them to move into WHF within weeks of the masacre there?
Let's be clear on this matter. Ann, Peter and her children did not move into White House until 1990.
To suggest they moved in within a few weeks is, if you pardon my French, complete bollocks.
-
Hartley will soon inform me if I am incorrect,but I believe that it was stipulated by the trust that owns the farm,that the tenants need to reside there.I think I myself would rather have moved into one of the cottages but I suppose they were not big enough for the Eaton family(as a family of four).I wonder who lives at Oak Farm (their previous farm) these days?
-
Hartley will soon inform me if I am incorrect,but I believe that it was stipulated by the trust that owns the farm,that the tenants need to reside there.
Yes that is generally correct. The owners of the property wanted it to be lived in, without anyone living in the property then under planning law, abandonment becomes an issue. There was (or so I'm led to believe) talk about turning the property into a bed & breakfast, Ann and Peter decided that they would rather move into the place themselves, than allow it to be turned into a house of horrors tourist accommodation.
They still own Oak Farm.
-
I think I myself would rather have moved into one of the cottages but I suppose they were not big enough for the Eaton family(as a family of four).
Ann & Peters daughter, Janie, her husband and her son live in the cottage just to the North of whf. I could be wrong but I believe the other nearby cottages are outside of the farms estate, or at least outside of the Eatons control.
Ann & Peter want Janie and her family to move into whf when they bugger off to retire, that's not something that they are too keen about to say the least.
-
There's a May Fayre on 2nd May at Osea Leisure Park from 10am to 4pm if anyone fancies it?
-
Hartley as you know the relatives were you aware of why Peter eaton punched Neville because I think I know but I would not put it on here unless I knew for certain and would you say the relatives were having serious money problems at the time of the murders
Was that what prompted them to move into WHF within weeks of the masacre there?
Let's be clear on this matter. Ann, Peter and her children did not move into White House until 1990.
To suggest they moved in within a few weeks is, if you pardon my French, complete bollocks.
French? I thought that was Anglo Saxon? :)
-
Hartley as you know the relatives were you aware of why Peter eaton punched Neville because I think I know but I would not put it on here unless I knew for certain and would you say the relatives were having serious money problems at the time of the murders
Was that what prompted them to move into WHF within weeks of the masacre there?
Let's be clear on this matter. Ann, Peter and her children did not move into White House until 1990.
I wasn't aware of that myself? I too was always led to believe that they moved in just after they were given access to the property because of legal reason?
-
Hartley is Janies name Sarah and Janie is really the middle lane.
-
Middle name I meant to say hartley
-
Hartley is Janies name Sarah and Janie is really the middle lane.
Yes that's right.
-
I am trying to recap everything I have read over the last few weeks and try and get a clearer picture of what happened at WHF
So it was height of the summer Jeremy was going about his business being a farmer not a care in the world no money worries girls falling at his feet when this massacre happens. First it is thought Sheila killed the whole family because she was ill but while the family were grief stricken they managed to find the time to go through the cupboards that had already been searched by police officers and came across a silencer which added to their suspicions that it could be their nephew and they had suspected he was gay. In the middle of their grief they managed to put their feelings aside although they had very serious money at the time to harass the police enough to persuade the police to investigate Jeremy. Just by a further piece of luck by the relatives had a friend who was a policeman who kept them updated.
During the month after the murders Jeremy decided to finish with his girlfriend and at the same time as Jeremy ended his relationship with his girlfriend Julie she found out he had also slept with her best friend she was so devastated she tried to smother him with a pillow saying if I can't have you no one will. When Julie had recovered from the shock of Jeremy ending the relationship she remembered that Jeremy had told her he was going to kill his family so she right thing and went to the police to make a statement to put this wicked boyfriend in prison so he could never hurt anyone again. Anyway the story had a happy ending because Julie received a reward of £25,000 for being an honest person and the relatives although grief stricken and feeling guilty because of an attack on Neville shortly before his death when he was trying to help them out of a predicament found out that on the conviction of Jeremy for the murders they were richer than their wildest dreams.
The only question I have got is how much in total worth would the relatives have inherited in monetary worth today?
-
I am trying to recap everything I have read over the last few weeks and try and get a clearer picture of what happened at WHF
So it was height of the summer Jeremy was going about his business being a farmer not a care in the world no money worries girls falling at his feet when this massacre happens. First it is thought Sheila killed the whole family because she was ill but while the family were grief stricken they managed to find the time to go through the cupboards that had already been searched by police officers and came across a silencer which added to their suspicions that it could be their nephew and they had suspected he was gay. In the middle of their grief they managed to put their feelings aside although they had very serious money at the time to harass the police enough to persuade the police to investigate Jeremy. Just by a further piece of luck by the relatives had a friend who was a policeman who kept them updated.
During the month after the murders Jeremy decided to finish with his girlfriend and at the same time as Jeremy ended his relationship with his girlfriend Julie she found out he had also slept with her best friend she was so devastated she tried to smother him with a pillow saying if I can't have you no one will. When Julie had recovered from the shock of Jeremy ending the relationship she remembered that Jeremy had told her he was going to kill his family so she right thing and went to the police to make a statement to put this wicked boyfriend in prison so he could never hurt anyone again. Anyway the story had a happy ending because Julie received a reward of £25,000 for being an honest person and the relatives although grief stricken and feeling guilty because of an attack on Neville shortly before his death when he was trying to help them out of a predicament found out that on the conviction of Jeremy for the murders they were richer than their wildest dreams.
The only question I have got is how much in total worth would the relatives have inherited in monetary worth today?
That was so good I'm almost tempted to applaud you. ;D
Love the bit about Julie getting 25,000 for being an honest person. ;D
-
for mt: how far up pages lane did you go mike and did you get pictures?
-
I am trying to recap everything I have read over the last few weeks and try and get a clearer picture of what happened at WHF
So it was height of the summer Jeremy was going about his business being a farmer not a care in the world no money worries girls falling at his feet when this massacre happens. First it is thought Sheila killed the whole family because she was ill but while the family were grief stricken they managed to find the time to go through the cupboards that had already been searched by police officers and came across a silencer which added to their suspicions that it could be their nephew and they had suspected he was gay. In the middle of their grief they managed to put their feelings aside although they had very serious money at the time to harass the police enough to persuade the police to investigate Jeremy. Just by a further piece of luck by the relatives had a friend who was a policeman who kept them updated.
During the month after the murders Jeremy decided to finish with his girlfriend and at the same time as Jeremy ended his relationship with his girlfriend Julie she found out he had also slept with her best friend she was so devastated she tried to smother him with a pillow saying if I can't have you no one will. When Julie had recovered from the shock of Jeremy ending the relationship she remembered that Jeremy had told her he was going to kill his family so she right thing and went to the police to make a statement to put this wicked boyfriend in prison so he could never hurt anyone again. Anyway the story had a happy ending because Julie received a reward of £25,000 for being an honest person and the relatives although grief stricken and feeling guilty because of an attack on Neville shortly before his death when he was trying to help them out of a predicament found out that on the conviction of Jeremy for the murders they were richer than their wildest dreams.
The only question I have got is how much in total worth would the relatives have inherited in monetary worth today?
So you're still sitting on the fence then. ::)
What does it matter how much money is in todays inflated world? Searching about on google, it would appear the 400,000 squid would equate to approx 900,000 squid today.
-
I am just trying to recap as well.
So, Harvest time and a humble 24 year old farmer who loved fast cars, wine bars, restaurants and holidays decided i can't be bothered with this years harvest.
He had the pick of any woman in the world but decided that the way to get out of this years harvest work was to fall for the wicked witch of the east. She put a spell on him to make him carry out any desire she wished. To test if the spell worked, she told him to rob his own parents. To her amazement he did it, she now knew that she could sow the seeds for her major plan, a new life in Canada where she could become a teacher, casting spells over North American children.
On August the 7th after months of being manipulated by this evil, vicious white witch. This simple country farmer snapped. He looked out of the window and his blood boiled with rage......rabbits.....everywhere. There were so many of these pests with great big pointy teeth that he loaded up a full magazine of bullets and went outside to crush these vermin. Amazingly, after going outside, the white witches magic kicked in and all the rabbits disappeared. This devoted farmer went back inside, bid his family goodnight and went home to catch up on some beauty sleep.
The witch however, was hard at work. She had put a spell on this simple farmers sister and she had picked up the gun he had left out and was marching up and down the stairs singing 'The grand old Duke of York' at the top of her voice. Sadly her father was not a clever man, he had several successful businesses and was amazingly a magistrate but instead of disarming his daughter. He thought 'I know i will ring my son, he is the one to fix this!' Unfortunately our hero could not save the day and his sister killed everybody before turning the gun on herself.
The wicked witch of the East was not finished yet. She put spells on this simple farmers family and they all conspired against him. She put spells on the whole of Essex police force to conspire against him. She put a spell on the jury as well at his trial . To demonstrate her powers she even put a spell on the future home secretary to make sure that our hero would stay in prison forever.
The only question i have is how much would he have inherited if his master plan had worked her evil spell had not worked properly.
-
Hilarious, simong. very good. Thank you
-
Hilarious, simong. very good. Thank you
I'll probably be shot down now (no pun intended) but JM apparently only moved to Canada in 1990 after meeting her Canadian husband in Austrailia, so she did leave the country to go travelling/escape, but her ending up in Canada was by default to be with him.
-
Hilarious, simong. very good. Thank you
I'll probably be shot down now (no pun intended) but JM apparently only moved to Canada in 1990 after meeting her Canadian husband in Austrailia, so she did leave the country to go travelling/escape, but her ending up in Canada was by default to be with him.
Well i am sure it was all planned, remember this woman is ruthlessly evil. She probably put a spell on the Canadian geezer.
-
Yeah, she's not a head teacher over there, she's the leader of her very own cult, forget all that mason stuff. ::)
-
Oh, Hartley and Simong. Sometimes I think I love you.
-
Hartley can we put the smite challenge on hold and give a prize to the first photo of the lucky bloke who married mugford
-
If I knew how, I'd put up a picture of Albert Steptoe, just to make you happy, Jack!!
-
Oh, Hartley and Simong. Sometimes I think I love you.
Only sometimes >:( ;D ;D
-
Hartley can we put the smite challenge on hold and give a prize to the first photo of the lucky bloke who married mugford
She's done nothing to me, so I'll leave the slagging off of JM to you I think. You are very good at it though, so I'm sure you'll be fine. ;)
-
Hartley
you are right I am still sitting on the fence
-
WHAT???!!!???
-
Hartley
you are right I am still sitting on the fence
???
-
Oh, Jackie, you truly are a legend. I like your new picture. Where is your fence, by the way? Round JB's bottom? (Cue a flurry of smites...!).
-
Oh, Jackie, you truly are a legend. I like your new picture. Where is your fence, by the way? Round JB's bottom? (Cue a flurry of smites...!).
she is a legend, no doubt, the ugly witch remark even though silly, i must admit i pissed myself laughing ;D its the way she says things. bless ya jackie :)
-
Oh, God, I agree. It's a bit like the Mike thing, really. You'd want her on your side if it all kicked off in a scrap!
-
Thank Andrea theres a drink waiting for you
Shona i thought we had done the smite thing to death I have never used it i am a nice person realy
i forgot Hartley i never asked if you were married?
-
thanks jackie ;D
-
Oh, God, I agree. It's a bit like the Mike thing, really. You'd want her on your side if it all kicked off in a scrap!
yeah go get em jackie, good lass
-
Thank Andrea theres a drink waiting for you
Shona i thought we had done the smite thing to death I have never used it i am a nice person realy
i forgot Hartley i never asked if you were married?
Yes I am, but what's that got to do with price of fish? :-\
-
Oh, Jack, I'm sure that you are a nice person, and you have the courage of your convictions. We'll never agree, because you're sure that JM lied, and I think that she was probably too young and possibly dim to invent and then stick to her story. But I admire your tenacity, I really do. And the ugly witch thing was very funny, it was the sort of thing that my sprogs would say.
-
Hartley as you know the relatives were you aware of why Peter eaton punched Neville because I think I know but I would not put it on here unless I knew for certain and would you say the relatives were having serious money problems at the time of the murders
Was that what prompted them to move into WHF within weeks of the masacre there?
Let's be clear on this matter. Ann, Peter and her children did not move into White House until 1990.
To suggest they moved in within a few weeks is, if you pardon my French, complete bollocks.
With respect, can I ask if you're absolutely certain of the time interval? The reason I'm asking you this is because others who ought to know what the interval was have told me that the family moved in either just a few weeks or a few months after the murders.
-
Yes I'm certain.
-
Jackie sitting on fence made me lol!!
-
Yes I'm certain.
I read somewhere that they moved in to the farmhouse in 1992.Is that correct?
-
Yes I'm certain.
I read somewhere that they moved in to the farmhouse in 1992.Is that correct?
In Ann Eaton's 1991 statement she said she lived at WHF so they were living there at this stage. Can anybody provide us with an exact month / year they moved in please? If I had to guess I'd put it at circa 1990.
-
Thanks for all the photos in this thread, Mike, they are beautiful. I had never seen them.
-
I also intend to visit other places of interest...
Like WHF ( for a discussion ) ;D ;D