Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: mike tesko on March 08, 2014, 09:26:AM
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Circle Of Life
Elton John
From the day we arrive on the planet
And blinking, step into the sun
There's more to see than can ever be seen
More to do than can ever be done
There's far too much to take in here
More to find than can ever be found
But the sun rolling high
Through the sapphire sky
Keeps great and small on the endless round
It's the circle of life
And it moves us all
Through despair and hope
Through faith and love
Till we find our place
On the path unwinding
In the circle
The circle of life
(1) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8ZnCT14nRc
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As we may never discover the full unedited truth about what took place at whf, those who have lied, or remained silent, can never prevent snippets of the actual truth being revealed...
The police investigation which eventually prosecuted and convicted Jeremy Bamber, was / is based upon a circle of lies, untruths, and State dishonesty...
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There was only one silencer...
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Sheila was dead by the time police forced their way into the farmhouse...
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There was only one body found downstairs when police entered the premises...
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Jeremy killed his family...
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There was no one at the window- only a trick of light
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There was only one window that could be closed from outside.
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Sheila was clean and her nails perfectly manicured.
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Thanks, everybody, keep the list of lies rolling in...
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Jeremy had been planning to kill all his family for a year...
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There was only one window that could be closed from outside.
was there ? which one ?
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Jeremy hired a hit man to kill his family, and paid him £2,000 to do it...
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Jeremy stage managed Sheila's body on the bedroom floor to fool police into believing that after she had killed the others, she had taken her own life...
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Jeremy's motive for murdering his family was greed, he planned to take full control of his parents estates...
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One body in the kitchen.
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Jeremy didn't receive a call from his father
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Neville didn't contact the police.
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Sheila told Ann Eaton, she was a witch (Sheila, not Ann Eaton)...
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Sheila didn't know one end of a gun from another...
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Sheila wouldn't have been able to reload the gun with enough bullets to kill everyone...
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Sheila wasn't strong enough to overpower Ralph in a struggle in the kitchen...
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A silencer was found on 10th August in the gun cupboard
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Sheila would never have hurt her own children...
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Sheila's blood was found in the Bamber family owned silencer...
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Sheila's feet were spotlessly clean, proving that she had not been walking through the various crime scenes within the farm house...
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Sheila did not struggle with anyone when she was shot...
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Sheila had such a small amount of lead deposit on her hands that she could not have handled bullets to reload the gun...
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Lead deposits found were from kitchen utensils. ( it gets worse )
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Sheila was happy at the time and had 'everything to live for' and was going to reconcile with Colin.
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Jeremy said "oh,but Uncle Bobby,I could EASILY kill my parents"
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Sheila was happy at the time and had 'everything to live for' and was going to reconcile with Colin.
Sheila was exhausted because she'd cut sandwiches.
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Sheila was fast asleep because her medication had knocked her out.
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She was so drugged up Jeremy lead her to her death calmly after showing her, her dead twins.
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Jeremy told JM----" tonight's the night ".
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Jeremy cycled along the rickety path in mud at dead of night.
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Then changed into his wet-suit to carry out the killings.
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Then changed into his wet-suit to carry out the killings.
Wet suits aren't absorbent of course.
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Bob Miller was an accomplished member of the Magic Circle, and wore the coveted "BOWTIE"!
Could he have dreamt up the evidence, involved in confusing the Trial about the multitude of Sound Moderators (a bit like Find The Lady, a SCAM of which he would be aware, from his time in the MET police?
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Your poor wife, Mike that is really aggressive treatment. Is it a course she has or just the one? I hope just the one.
Very best wishes to both of you. Xx
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Hello Maggie my best wishes to Mike's wife can't get onto his thread. I had a friend who had that treatment and it was worth it but it sounds horrendous being bolted in think I would run away.
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Hello Maggie my best wishes to Mike's wife can't get onto his thread. I had a friend who had that treatment and it was worth it but it sounds horrendous being bolted in think I would run away.
Neither can I. Best wishes to you and your wife Mike. I can't imaging the stress she is put through.
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What thread?
In any case, Mike, all the best to you and your wife.
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Alias the thread in which Mike told us of his wife's condition so & so and so. Cannot respond to Mike on it.
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Alias the thread in which Mike told us of his wife's condition so & so and so. Cannot respond to Mike on it.
Susan, if you mean the "So and So Said......................" thread, I've just posted on there.
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Yes april but you are special I am just one of the flock ;D ;D ;D ;D
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april just tried again it is locked unless you are wearing green or red I am in black ;D maybe I would have got on if I had changed to blue but then again maybe not ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Aww,Mike.My thoughts to both you and your wife,and I hope the treatment " does the trick ". Love.P.xx
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april just tried again it is locked unless you are wearing green or red I am in black ;D maybe I would have got on if I had changed to blue but then again maybe not ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Could grey be called pale black, Susan? ;D ;D ;D
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There was no one at the window- only a trick of light
Was it Jeremy or the police who saw the trick of the light ? Either way the police said it was a truck of the light.
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There was only one window that could be closed from outside.
The only window I am aware of is the kitchen window.
Jeremy only needed one window.
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Sheila was clean and her nails perfectly manicured.
She was indeed.
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One body in the kitchen.
That is right. Neville.
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Jeremy didn't receive a call from his father
The judge called it mysterious.
I call the alledged phone call ridiculous.
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Neville didn't contact the police.
Jeremy told the police on the night he liked to keep things in the family. Which is why he did not dial 999, preferring to put his son in danger.
No one at the time or since from the police has said they got a call from Neville. Jeremy only claimed Neville phoned the police over 20 years later.
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A silencer was found on 10th August in the gun cupboard
It was found on the 11th by relatives. Stan Jones had given them the keys & asked them to do a tidy up.
Jeremy was probably on holiday. Or in London. Or was he farming !?
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Sheila was happy at the time and had 'everything to live for' and was going to reconcile with Colin.
Colin was interviewed on TV directly after the conviction.
He said there was a possibility of a recocilliation. He also did not seem concerned about the guilty verdict.
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Jeremy said "oh,but Uncle Bobby,I could EASILY kill my parents"
If that is what he said, it could well be true.
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Sheila was exhausted because she'd cut sandwiches.
Cheese & pickle ?
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Sheila was fast asleep because her medication had knocked her out.
Sheila was fast asleep because it was 3am.
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She was so drugged up Jeremy lead her to her death calmly after showing her, her dead twins.
Sheila was found in the corner of her parents bedroom. Probably cowering with no where to run.
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Jeremy told JM----" tonight's the night ".
That is what Julie said.
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Jeremy cycled along the rickety path in mud at dead of night.
He was young & fit & knew the route.
He also had a bike. Mysteriously brought to the cottage just before the massacre. Apparently for Julie although the judge asked why if their relationship was coming to a close.
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No,,Adam,,we haven't played into your hands. These are the remarks from the boneheads who didn't look any further than the ends of their noses,,and it took 19 days to reach conclusions like this ???
Corruption ruled in this case. What happened to Nevilles' expensive watch which was surreptitiously kicked under the carpet ? Did Jeremy " flog it " ? No,,it probably went the same way as Oscar Pistorius's watches !
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Adam and when Jeremy phoned her in the middle of the night and said something wrong at the farm and she told him to go back to bed. Get real.
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Adam and when Jeremy phoned her in the middle of the night and said something wrong at the farm and she told him to go back to bed. Get real.
She was tired. Jeremy had phoned her at 3am. Twenty minutes before he got a call from Neville. Why phone Julie if you do not even know what had happened ?
Didn't Jeremy also phoned Julie again at 6.00am & tell her to come over, before the raid team had entered WHF ?
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Poor Adam. Thought you were on a roll again,,but there was no substance nor explanation to your answers.
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Sheila was found in the corner of her parents bedroom. Probably cowering with no where to run.
A far cry from what you said in the beginning. I was paraphrasing what you yourself had said.
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She was tired. Jeremy had phoned her at 3am. Twenty minutes before he got a call from Neville. Why phone Julie if you do not even know what had happened ?
Didn't Jeremy also phoned Julie again at 6.00am & tell her to come over, before the raid team had entered WHF ?
Her first statement said 3.20am. After 32 police interviews this "mysteriously" turned into 3.00am.
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She was tired. Jeremy had phoned her at 3am. Twenty minutes before he got a call from Neville. Why phone Julie if you do not even know what had happened ?
Didn't Jeremy also phoned Julie again at 6.00am & tell her to come over, before the raid team had entered WHF ?
So?
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A far cry from what you said in the beginning. I was paraphrasing what you yourself had said.
Yes my original scenario said she was lead there, half asleep and the pounced on.
However I have since said it was possible she was cowering in the corner.
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Yes my original scenario said she was lead there, half asleep and the pounced on.
However I have since said it was possible she was cowering in the corner.
So now you've changed your view from full of drugs and lead like a lamb to the slaughter to wide awake and running from Jeremy?
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So now you've changed your view from full of drugs and lead like a lamb to the slaughter to wide awake and running from Jeremy?
When did I say full of drugs ? A cheese & pickle sandwich maybe.
Either explanation is possible.
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Her first statement said 3.20am. After 32 police interviews this "mysteriously" turned into 3.00am.
Actually her original statement said 3.30 - so OWS were
3.10 JB gets call from NB - panicking and not quite sure what the whole call was really about - he tries to call his father back several times and can not get through. Then still not sure whether to call police ( no mention of any shooting only the fact that Sheila had the gun) He decides to call the police . Now we have no idea of timings because the EP changed logs - There are documents to prove this - and so are there calls at 3.26 or 3.36 or both ? Was the clock wrong ? One PC says yes it was another says no.So here we have to rely on Police evidence that has been changed or not even released - so two cars dispatched - one at 3.35 - before they say JB even called. So very possible that JM did receive the call at 3.30 as per her original WS
So the question is if the police are telling the truth SC had from 3.10 to the arrival of the police 3.45? to kill 4 people - possible yes.
If the police are not telling the truth and NB did make the other call at 3.26 then we are assuming that no one had been killed by this time? Is that assumption correct ? We don't know.
Also are we correct in the assumption that no one was killed after the police had arrived? What could they hear outside?
The fact is that the police had been criticised for changing logs etc - but some of those logs and tapes have never even been released - and that is the point -we still do not have all the information to unravel crucial timings - so for people like Adam to be throwing around timings and using them as fact is misleading . If the police can not or will not confirm all the timings then why should he use them as basis for his scenarios.
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Good post Jansus. The audio-tapes would be a good place to start,,and recordings of what the TFU were actually saying on entering WHF.
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Actually her original statement said 3.30 - so OWS were
3.10 JB gets call from NB - panicking and not quite sure what the whole call was really about - he tries to call his father back several times and can not get through. Then still not sure whether to call police ( no mention of any shooting only the fact that Sheila had the gun) He decides to call the police . Now we have no idea of timings because the EP changed logs - There are documents to prove this - and so are there calls at 3.26 or 3.36 or both ? Was the clock wrong ? One PC says yes it was another says no.So here we have to rely on Police evidence that has been changed or not even released - so two cars dispatched - one at 3.35 - before they say JB even called. So very possible that JM did receive the call at 3.30 as per her original WS
So the question is if the police are telling the truth SC had from 3.10 to the arrival of the police 3.45? to kill 4 people - possible yes.
If the police are not telling the truth and NB did make the other call at 3.26 then we are assuming that no one had been killed by this time? Is that assumption correct ? We don't know.
Also are we correct in the assumption that no one was killed after the police had arrived? What could they hear outside?
The fact is that the police had been criticised for changing logs etc - but some of those logs and tapes have never even been released - and that is the point -we still do not have all the information to unravel crucial timings - so for people like Adam to be throwing around timings and using them as fact is misleading . If the police can not or will not confirm all the timings then why should he use them as basis for his scenarios.
Why would the police never, ever say they got a call from Neville ?
The first month it was murder/suicide. Taff Jones was adament.
When the relatives told the police of their fears, the police just had to tell them about Nevilles call. The relatives would know it was Sheila & would not bother handing the silencer in.
A call from Neville & it is case closed. An innocent man stays innocent. EP do not risk getting caught trying to frame an innocent man.
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Why would the police never, ever say they got a call from Neville ?
The first month it was murder/suicide. Taff Jones was adament.
When the relatives told the police of their fears, the police just had to tell them about Nevilles call. The relatives would know it was Sheila & would not bother handing the silencer in.
A call from Neville & it is case closed. An innocent man stays innocent. EP do not risk getting caught trying to frame an innocent man.
get it right Adam - I never said that call existed - I said IF it did . The police changed logs and were proved to have done that - so yet again they have weaved a web so the truth is difficult to establish - So WHY did they change logs? Why did one officer say the clock was wrong and the other say it was never wrong?Why did they not release the audio tapes so they could put this all to bed once and for all ? Why did they change exhibit numbers etc etc .
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get it right Adam - I never said that call existed - I said IF it did . The police changed logs and were proved to have done that - so yet again they have weaved a web so the truth is difficult to establish - So WHY did they change logs? Why did one officer say the clock was wrong and the other say it was never wrong?Why did they not release the audio tapes so they could put this all to bed once and for all ? Why did they change exhibit numbers etc etc .
Why frame Jeremy ?
The first thing the police would have said to Jeremy on the night was 'Jeremy, you're father also rang the police, he told us...'.
But the police did not say that. Instead Jeremy stuck resolutely for years to saying Neville liked to keep things in the family so did not ring the police.
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Why frame Jeremy ?
The first thing the police would have said to Jeremy on the night was 'Jeremy, you're father also rang the police, he told us...'.
But the police did not say that. Instead Jeremy stuck resolutely for years to saying Neville liked to keep things in the family so did not ring the police.
For once and only once I agree with you - and at least I admit it - I am not sure NB did ring the police for that one reason only I think the police would have mentioned it to JB .
And in fact I think that JB ever did say his father rang in the first few years because 1) he would not have known unless told 2) It was only when the police log came to light he started to question it.
As the police logs have been PROVEN to be a mess then it is their fault that this question can still not be answered.
The rest of what you say I don't agree with one single little thing.
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Why frame Jeremy ?
The first thing the police would have said to Jeremy on the night was 'Jeremy, you're father also rang the police, he told us...'.
But the police did not say that. Instead Jeremy stuck resolutely for years to saying Neville liked to keep things in the family so did not ring the police.
Why not frame him ? Everyone would benefit,,and did,,but the jury didn't know this bit.
Why did the prosecution insist that at no time did Jeremy receive the call from his father ? When it's quite clear that Neville did indeed call Jeremy.
It's because both calls had been rolled into one..as at the time it had been entered on the same call,,,,and it wasn't until 2002 that it was found that Neville rang Jeremy from the office phone upstairs because it had a last number redial facility,,which was the call to the police.
As for your last paragraph,,you must really use that grey matter of yours. It was a life and death situation,so Neville,like anyone else,would phone the police.
No,,Neville never liked officialdom,,as he'd probably realised that if he couldn't solve something himself,then he'd rather not bother going through a heap of red-tape and nonsense.I had a pa-in-law like him,,so I understand.
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For once and only once I agree with you - and at least I admit it - I am not sure NB did ring the police for that one reason only I think the police would have mentioned it to JB .
And in fact I think that JB ever did say his father rang in the first few years because 1) he would not have known unless told 2) It was only when the police log came to light he started to question it.
As the police logs have been PROVEN to be a mess then it is their fault that this question can still not be answered.
The rest of what you say I don't agree with one single little thing.
So Jeremy is contradicting his own claims from 1985.
On the night Jeremy did not ask the police if they had received a call from Neville. Which was a real possibility in the circumstances.
Did Jeremy already know Neville had made no such call as he was the killer ?
Or was he just so sure Neville would not have rang the police, even when guns, crazy women & bullets are involved. How could he be so sure ?
Either way, he changed his mind years later.
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I shall repeat what I said.Nevilles' call to the police was the last entry on the " last number re-dial " phone in the upstairs office. This information only came to light in 2002,,and is supported by documentation.
Why do you think it took so long in establishing that information ?
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Why not frame him ? Everyone would benefit,,and did,,but the jury didn't know this bit.
Why did the prosecution insist that at no time did Jeremy receive the call from his father ? When it's quite clear that Neville did indeed call Jeremy.
It's because both calls had been rolled into one..as at the time it had been entered on the same call,,,,and it wasn't until 2002 that it was found that Neville rang Jeremy from the office phone upstairs because it had a last number redial facility,,which was the call to the police.
As for your last paragraph,,you must really use that grey matter of yours. It was a life and death situation,so Neville,like anyone else,would phone the police.
No,,Neville never liked officialdom,,as he'd probably realised that if he couldn't solve something himself,then he'd rather not bother going through a heap of red-tape and nonsense.I had a pa-in-law like him,,so I understand.
How would EP benefit ?
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Adam the same way they did when they had the Birmingham 6 convicted on false evidence . Appease the public and the press they had solved the case :'(
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Why not frame him ? Everyone would benefit,,and did,,but the jury didn't know this bit.
Why did the prosecution insist that at no time did Jeremy receive the call from his father ? When it's quite clear that Neville did indeed call Jeremy.
It's because both calls had been rolled into one..as at the time it had been entered on the same call,,,,and it wasn't until 2002 that it was found that Neville rang Jeremy from the office phone upstairs because it had a last number redial facility,,which was the call to the police.
As for your last paragraph,,you must really use that grey matter of yours. It was a life and death situation,so Neville,like anyone else,would phone the police.
No,,Neville never liked officialdom,,as he'd probably realised that if he couldn't solve something himself,then he'd rather not bother going through a heap of red-tape and nonsense.I had a pa-in-law like him,,so I understand.
Neville called Jeremy from his office phone upstairs. I did not know that. But there were no BT phone records in 1985.
Had Sheila gone downstairs with the rifle. Neville & June unable to restrain her.
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How would EP benefit ?
Jobs for the boys,,gifts all round,,and a full pension on retirement for securing a phoney conviction.
One of the officers received the job of a security officer once the caravan site was in the hands of the relatives. Was this pre-planned/arranged, I ask myself.You can bet your life it was !
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So Jeremy is contradicting his own claims from 1985.
On the night Jeremy did not ask the police if they had received a call from Neville. Which was a real possibility in the circumstances.
Did Jeremy already know Neville had made no such call as he was the killer ?
Or was he just so sure Neville would not have rang the police, even when guns, crazy women & bullets are involved. How could he be so sure ?
Show me the proof that in 1985 JB claimed that his father had actually called the police.
Either way, he changed his mind years later.
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Eh ?
I never said Jeremy claimed his father called the police in 1985.
He changed his mind years later.
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Eh ?
I never said Jeremy claimed his father called the police in 1985.
He changed his mind years later.
what did you mean by he contradicted his claims from 1985 then - be specific and explain this post.
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So Jeremy is contradicting his own claims from 1985.
On the night Jeremy did not ask the police if they had received a call from Neville. Which was a real possibility in the circumstances.
Did Jeremy already know Neville had made no such call as he was the killer ?
Or was he just so sure Neville would not have rang the police, even when guns, crazy women & bullets are involved. How could he be so sure ?
Either way, he changed his mind years later.
The reason Jeremy did not challenge police concerning Neville's alleged phone call to the police on the day of the murders was that he didn't know of it then. The second telephone log came to light years after the event. Jeremy was over the moon about it, thinking that the log showed that Nevill had himself phoned the police. His legal team advised him not to use it in the appeal as it looked as if it was a copy of the first log. But he still thinking that it was proof that his father had phoned the police went ahead and used it.
That is the explanation of that. That log is just one thing that has come to light since the original trial. This is to enlighten you so that you do not mistakenly accuse Jeremy for the error.
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what did you mean by he contradicted his claims from 1985 then - be specific and explain this post.
In 1985 he said Neville would not phone the police as he would like to keep things private.
He changed this stance years later.
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So Jeremy is contradicting his own claims from 1985.
On the night Jeremy did not ask the police if they had received a call from Neville. Which was a real possibility in the circumstances.
Did Jeremy already know Neville had made no such call as he was the killer ?
Or was he just so sure Neville would not have rang the police, even when guns, crazy women & bullets are involved. How could he be so sure ?
Either way, he changed his mind years later.
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In 1985 he said Neville would not phone the police as he would like to keep things private.
He changed this stance years later.
yes well if you read the last post his first hunch may have been correct. ;D ;D ;D ;D
And perhaps it was a combination of a cover up and a frame up - and you have had plenty of posts to back that up.
Otherwise what is your answer for all the changed logs /exhibit numbers /with held evidence destroyed evidence against a court order WHY???????-
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"On the night Jeremy did not ask the police if they had received a call from Neville. Which was a real possibility in the circumstances"
How do you know?
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Why are you repeating this as I have given you the correct answer in my post a few minutes ago. I gave you THE explanation. Jeremy didn't change his mind as you put it. But the second telephone log was found years after the trial, causing doubt to be thrown on the first log.
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yes well if you read the last post his first hunch may have been correct. ;D ;D ;D ;D
And perhaps it was a combination of a cover up and a frame up - and you have had plenty of posts to back that up.
Otherwise what is your answer for all the changed logs /exhibit numbers /with held evidence destroyed evidence against a court order WHY???????-
I have no answer for the apparent changed logs & exhibit numbers. And I am hungry.
That is something the courts, COA & CCRC would have discussed. If Jeremy brought them up.
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I have no answer for the apparent changed logs & exhibit numbers. And I am hungry.
That is something the courts, COA & CCRC would have discussed. If Jeremy brought them up.
is that a new game - pass the buck when you don't have the answer.
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is that a new game - pass the buck when you don't have the answer.
Undoubtedly Jansus. Have noticed previously that when the conversation gets uncomfortable, Adam has an exit line.
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april it is what I call doing a "runner" ;D
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april it is what I call doing a "runner" ;D
Doing a "runner" will do nicely, Susan. :)
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Doing a "runner" will do nicely, Susan. :)
Er no. If I was doing a runner I would not say 'I have no answer'.
Jeremy apparently has millions of documents in his cell. Looking for a spelling mistake or uncrossed 'T' to get released on a technicality.
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Er no. If I was doing a runner I would not say 'I have no answer'.
Jeremy apparently has millions of documents in his cell. Looking for a spelling mistake or uncrossed 'T' to get released on a technicality.
Now you're being silly. How about saying something constructive for a change ?
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Er no. If I was doing a runner I would not say 'I have no answer'.
Jeremy apparently has millions of documents in his cell. Looking for a spelling mistake or uncrossed 'T' to get released on a technicality.
Yes. He's stitched them all together and made a duvet out of them. ;D
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Yes. He's stitched them all together and made a duvet out of them. ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Or a patchwork quilt.
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I have no answer for the apparent changed logs & exhibit numbers. And I am hungry.
That is something the courts, COA & CCRC would have discussed. If Jeremy brought them up.
How about you read the recent post that Grahame wrote about the mistake that the CCRC made and how an innocent person was still in jail because of their mistake - then discuss .
Discuss means look at both sides and admit that things are possible- even if you think they are unlikely or mysterious - it does not mean they are not possible .