Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: tonyb on August 02, 2012, 01:09:PM
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unreal...
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unreal...
Are you surprised?
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Are you surprised?
Gobsmacked the same crap is being re- invented.
The bullshit photo. I mean. It's been so many different poses it's untrue.
All the lemmings no its untrue, MT just trying to entrap new and gullible blood.
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Is Enigma something that mike supposedly has the sought after pics on? or non existent pics!
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unreal...
You are...
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Is Enigma something that mike supposedly has the sought after pics on? or non existent pics!
Attempting to enhance the gospel according to mike with a Germanic code system?
Should of used Echelon, at least it's in the modern spy books... ;D
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Are you surprised?
Why did David Boutflour deliberately tampered with the silencer / blood evidence in this case and why is he frightened to death of speaking about what he did, who he told and what happened to the flake he scraped off the outside of the silencer? Didn't he think it was serious what he did? Why don't you tell everyone what a good honest reliable witness he was / is?
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Gobsmacked the same crap is being re- invented.
The bullshit photo. I mean. It's been so many different poses it's untrue.
All the lemmings no its untrue, MT just trying to entrap new and gullible blood.
Only people talking crap are you lot...
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Why did David Boutflour deliberately tampered with the silencer / blood evidence in this case and why is he frightened to death of speaking about what he did, who he told and what happened to the flake he scraped off the outside of the silencer? Didn't he think it was serious what he did? Why don't you tell everyone what a good honest reliable witness he was / is?
David has nothing to be worried about that is just your own paranoia mate.
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Only people talking crap are you lot...
You are...
.... Now immune from the shower of crap emanating from your imagination.
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Is Enigma something that mike supposedly has the sought after pics on? or non existent pics!
How did dry blood manage to make all these additional smear marks upon Sheila's face and throat:-
(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=10492;image)
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Only people talking crap are you lot...
Correction.. Commenting on crap.
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.... Now immune from the shower of crap emanating from your imagination.
You fucking idiomatic piece of shit, fuck off bird brain - you would n't know the truth if it hit you in the face.
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How did dry blood manage to make all these additional smear marks upon Sheila's face and throat:-
(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=10492;image)
It doesn't matter. Show us the photo. We can have an informed debate rather than believe,or disbelieve what you have,or have not got on those elusive hard drives
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David has nothing to be worried about that is just your own paranoia mate.
You fucking moron - how can he have nothing to worry about? Oh, I forgot its the corrupt criminal justice system that is ,looking after him, just like it looked after that lying scumbag Muggy and those other conspirators who stage managed Sheila's body on the floor from the bed....
Seems like you can shoot dead someone who suffers with a mental illness, and blame it initially on her for talking her own life, and then when the shit starts to hit the fan, you blame her brother...
BOUTFLOUR tampers with the silencer / blood evidence and nobody bats an eye - what a sad state of affairs that he thinks he has nothing to worry about? What a sad state of affairs that there are people like you who think he has nothing to worry about? You have got to be as corrupt as he was / is, for thinking like that? You cannot go around tampering with exhibits in the case like he did and think you have not done anything wrong...
What planet does he come from?
What planet do you come from?
Fucking criminal activity like that / this, and you say he has got nothing to worry about....
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You fucking moron - how can he have nothing to worry about? Oh, I forgot its the corrupt criminal justice system that is ,looking after him, just like it looked after that lying scumbag Muggy and those other conspirators who stage managed Sheila's body on the floor from the bed....
Seems like you can shoot dead someone who suffers with a mental illness, and blame it initially on her for talking her own life, and then when the shit starts to hit the fan, you blame her brother...
BOUTFLOUR tampers with the silencer / blood evidence and nobody bats an eye - what a sad state of affairs that he thinks he has nothing to worry about? What a sad state of affairs that there are people like you who think he has nothing to worry about? You have got to be as corrupt as he was / is, for thinking like that? You cannot go around tampering with exhibits in the case like he did and think you have not done anything wrong...
What planet does he come from?
What planet do you come from?
Fucking criminal activity like that / this, and you say he has got nothing to worry about....
He found a silencer and he examined it. Would appear to be quite a normal activity.
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If that doc still is Sheila, i think it was taken at the morgue. The blood seeping from her mouth after being moved, i also think the body bag would have smeared the blood on her face. That picture, if sheila, wasnt taken in WHF.
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He found a silencer and he examined it. Would appear to be quite a normal activity.
You people are unbelievable- how can what he did be treated as being quite normal activity?
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If that doc still is Sheila, i think it was taken at the morgue. The blood seeping from her mouth after being moved, i also think the body bag would have smeared the blood on her face. That picture, if sheila, wasnt taken in WHF.
Funny then how it got to be on the video taken at the scene by the TSU - so, we have gone from it not being Sheila, to it being June, and now we are back to it possibly being Sheila but not at the scene, but probably at the morgue (so who took the video footage at the morgue)?
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He found a silencer and he examined it. Would appear to be quite a normal activity.
It may be normal,but for that particular piece of evidence to be used,after the potential,if not actual contamination of said silencer, is incorrect, do you not agree?
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Funny then how it got to be on the video taken at the scene by the TSU - so, we have gione from it not being Sheila, to it being June, and now we are back to it possibly being Sheila but not at the scene, but probably at the morgue (so who took the video footage at the morgue)?
Ha ha LIke you would know what was on that video.
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If that doc still is Sheila, i think it was taken at the morgue. The blood seeping from her mouth after being moved, i also think the body bag would have smeared the blood on her face. That picture, if sheila, wasnt taken in WHF.
I was wondering that Andrea. Why is the photo so close up? and the area around her is hidden and the image grainy and unclear. It looks to have been blown up.
Maybe we could get a clearer copy and shed some light on where this photo was actually taken?
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Ha ha LIke you would know what was on that video.
Ha Ha ha yourself - its a bit like how would you know what is not on that video?
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Ha Ha ha yourself - its a bit like how would you know what is not on that video?
I said it first!!!!
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I was wondering that Andrea. Why is the photo so close up? and the area around her is hidden and the image grainy and unclear. It looks to have been blown up.
Maybe we could get a clearer copy and shed some light on where this photo was actually taken?
Its a still taken from a docummentary Moe. There is a thread on here about it, which i started.
I'll try and find it, you can get a proper look then :D
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Its a still taken from a docummentary Moe. There is a thread on here about it, which i started.
I'll try and find it, you can get a proper look then :D
I remember that Andrea. Didn't they use an actress for some scenes and wasn't she dressed nothing like Sheila Caffell was.
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yes, they used an actress. But i thought that the pic was actually sheila.
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Its a still taken from a docummentary Moe. There is a thread on here about it, which i started.
I'll try and find it, you can get a proper look then :D
Close up like this one which shows wet blood...
(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=18724;image)
"Oh, Look", barrel of rifle is now resting at the side of Sheila's neck / throat, whereas previously the muzzle of the rifle was positioned beneath her throat pointing in the region of her chin" - wonder who moved the rifles barrel from one position to the other if a police officer did not move anything until after the pictures were taken?
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Wet blood? More like the reflection from a camera flash.
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How many times did the police remove then replace the rifle? Was it twice or three times?
It isn't surprising that it went back in a slightly different place each time.
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Wet blood? More like the reflection from a camera flash.
So what happened here then:-
(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=4309;image)
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The more the blood the longer it takes to coagulate and especially so in a warm room. Bottom line is there is no evidence of any conspiracy, no evidence that anyone other than Jeremy Bamber was involved and no evidence that the police did anything untoward at any time.
Have you ever seen blood hanging up in an operating theatre?
(http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/beerkoff/beerkoff1109/beerkoff110900060/10622296-blood-drip-in-operation-room-with-surgeon-on-background.jpg)
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The more the blood the longer it takes to coagulate and especially in a warm room.
Which photograph was taken first, in your opinion (or anyones opinion)?
This one:-
(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=4309;image)
or this one:-
(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=18724;image)
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A post for now ive kept out of , but its worth remembering the rifle had to be moved, to check for signs of life and to confirm death, and to remove the rifle to make the area safe for the funeral staff to carry out their duties.
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The very first thing the police firearms team did on discovering Sheila was to make safe the rifle by checking it for ammo. I believe they lifted it by the strap.
As a side issue wasn't it convenient that the rifle and the magazine was empty?
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Which photograph was taken first, in your opinion (or anyones opinion)?
This one:-
or
Well the first one was taken in about 2004 wasn't it?
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The photos were taken around the same time.
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The photos were taken around the same time.
Nope the first one is definately about 20 years later. :P
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A post for now ive kept out of , but its worth remembering the rifle had to be moved, to check for signs of life and to confirm death, and to remove the rifle to make the area safe for the funeral staff to carry out their duties.
Which is what the purpose of PS Woodcocks version of events deals with at 11:10am, that morning...
Whereas, police have gone on record at the original trial, (1986) and at the appeal of 2002, that no-one moved or touched anything at all, until after PC Bird finished taking his crime scene photographs, save for DI "Ron" Cook, moving Sheila's hand to allow PC Bird to photographs the bloodied marks on her nightdress.
Now...
Not yet mentioned in any court proceedings, was / is the fact that Cook told the COLP investigators (1991) that he removed the rifle from Sheila's body at some stage in between the two occasions when Bird photographed Sheila's body in the bedroom. Cook told COLP that he removed the rifle from Sheila's body and placed it against the bedroom window as shown in photograph 23. Well, if Cook told the court he only moved Sheila's hand, why did he tell COLP (1991) that he actually removed the rifle from Sheila's body and placed it against the bedroom window at a time when only he and the other three SOCO were present inside the premises? If there was no-one else inside the premises at that stage, how did the rifle get back onto the body to enable PS Woodcock to come along later to remove it from the body again at 11:10am, and make it safe? Furthermore, PI Montgomery told COLP that he removed the rifle from Sheila's body and made it safe, so what we have is "Ron" Cook removing the rifle from Sheila's body and placing it back against the bedroom window where it had originally been spotted by WPC Jeapes before the raid team entered the premises, and there is no explanation for how that rifle got from its original location of leaning (about 7:15am) against the window, onto Sheila's body, in time for Cook to remove it again (after 10am) and place it against the window, or how it managed to get back onto the body again in time for PS Woodcock to remove it again and make it safe at 11:10am?
Whilst on this subject...
It now becomes possible to see where PI Montgomery's account of removing the rifle from Sheila's body fits into the sequence of events, because at 9am, when PS Adams visited the bedroom and saw Sheila's body (before the arrival at the scene of DI Cook who did not arrive there until 9:20am) in the bedroom there was no rifle at all on Sheila's body, so Montgomery must have removed it by that stage...
How then had the rifle got back onto the body of Sheila, once Montgomery had removed it prior to 9am, in time for Cook to remove it by around 10am? Furthermore, how had the rifle managed to get back onto the body once Cook had removed it at around 10am, from the bedroom window, in time for PS Woodcock to be able to remove the rifle and make it safe by 11:10am?
If Woodcock had to make it safe at 11:15am, it suggests that the rifle was not in a safe state when Montgomery (before 9am) and Cook (around 10am) removed the rifle from Sheila's body beforehand? But who kept putting the rifle back on the body, an unsafe rifle at that?
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Have you worked it all out yet Mikey? The rifle was made safe at the outset then removed several times as various procedures were enacted. No mystery mate.
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The more the blood the longer it takes to coagulate and especially so in a warm room. Bottom line is there is no evidence of any conspiracy, no evidence that anyone other than Jeremy Bamber was involved and no evidence that the police did anything untoward at any time.
Have you ever seen blood hanging up in an operating theatre?
(http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/beerkoff/beerkoff1109/beerkoff110900060/10622296-blood-drip-in-operation-room-with-surgeon-on-background.jpg)
Gravity,Rhodes. No gravity when someone's lying on the floor,,as opposed to a drip with a downflow.
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The very first thing the police firearms team did on discovering Sheila was to make safe the rifle by checking it for ammo. I believe they lifted it by the strap.
As a side issue wasn't it convenient that the rifle and the magazine was empty?
I know I am a newcomer here and reading other threads this has been discussed last year,but if the rifle and the magazine on Sheila's body was empty how could the Police have accidentally shot her when they moved the rifle? As I say I don't want to go over old ground and correct me if this has been discussed before but I enclose the Macdonnel report which in my view confirms Jeremy's guilt.http://watchingyouwatchingyme-steelmagnolia.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/jeremy-bamber-prof-herbert-leon-report.html
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I know I am a newcomer here and reading other threads this has been discussed last year,but if the rifle and the magazine on Sheila's body was empty how could the Police have accidentally shot her when they moved the rifle? As I say I don't want to go over old ground and correct me if this has been discussed before but I enclose the Macdonnel report which in my view confirms Jeremy's guilt.http://watchingyouwatchingyme-steelmagnolia.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/jeremy-bamber-prof-herbert-leon-report.html
The silly argument would be that there was still a bullet in the rifle when the police first arrived and somehow they managed to pull the trigger with the gun pointed at Sheilas neck. And before you say it........yes its nonsense.
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If that doc still is Sheila, i think it was taken at the morgue. The blood seeping from her mouth after being moved, i also think the body bag would have smeared the blood on her face. That picture, if sheila, wasnt taken in WHF.
If the blood smeared on her face, that would have to mean it was wet! If it was still wet by the time the body was moved, she certainly didn't die at around 3am and if it was later, JB didn't shoot her!
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It may be normal,but for that particular piece of evidence to be used,after the potential,if not actual contamination of said silencer, is incorrect, do you not agree?
Fully!!
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yes, they used an actress. But i thought that the pic was actually sheila.
Pic is Sheila...
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If the blood smeared on her face, that would have to mean it was wet! If it was still wet by the time the body was moved, she certainly didn't die at around 3am and if it was later, JB didn't shoot her!
No, Caroline. The blood that came from her mouth was wet and was smeared by the body bag.
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Gravity,Rhodes. No gravity when someone's lying on the floor,,as opposed to a drip with a downflow.
Er....yes there is. Gravity affects everything on this planet..dead or alive. The blood in Sheila body would have been just as effected as anything else. It is a condition called 'hypostasis' or 'livor mortis' which is a settling of the blood in the lower (dependent) portion of the body, causing a purplish red discoloration of the skin: when the heart is no longer pumping the blood, heavy red blood cells sink through the serum by action of gravity.
On death normal blood flow stops almost instantly, but blood and other fluids are subject to the force of gravity and continue to flow after death. If you watch crime dramas on TV, they refer to lividity to determine the time of death. That is how far has the pooling of fluids have progressed; since that process is a function of time. However, this is also dependent on the ambient air temperature and position of the body. Furthermore, if the blood has made contact with the air it will congeal, but will re-flow if disturbed as only the thin upper layer that has made direct contact with the air.
Sheila Caffell undoubtedly started to re-bleed once she was moved slightly - maybe by the examining doctor or other means. To state that Sheila Caffell was recently killed because of this photograph is not totally correct. The above is also a factor that needs to be considered.
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Er....yes there is. Gravity affects everything on this planet..dead or alive. The blood in Sheila body would have been just as effected as anything else. It is a condition called 'hypostasis' or 'livor mortis' which is a settling of the blood in the lower (dependent) portion of the body, causing a purplish red discoloration of the skin: when the heart is no longer pumping the blood, heavy red blood cells sink through the serum by action of gravity.
On death normal blood flow stops almost instantly, but blood and other fluids are subject to the force of gravity and continue to flow after death. If you watch crime dramas on TV, they refer to lividity to determine the time of death. That is how far has the pooling of fluids have progressed; since that process is a function of time. However, this is also dependent on the ambient air temperature and position of the body. Furthermore, if the blood has made contact with the air it will congeal, but will re-flow if disturbed as only the thin upper layer that has made direct contact with the air.
Sheila Caffell undoubtedly started to re-bleed once she was moved slightly - maybe by the examining doctor or other means. To state that Sheila Caffell was recently killed because of this photograph is not totally correct. The above is also a factor that needs to be considered.
Moe,,,I know about livor mortis,,but on the pics of Sheila,it wasn't evident.
What does bug me is the fact that NO times of death were recorded,,and given the tragic circumstances of the case,I would have thought that would have been a vital part of the investigation.
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No, Caroline. The blood that came from her mouth was wet and was smeared by the body bag.
LOL sorry Andrea, I didn't realise you were there? :)
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LOL sorry Andrea, I didn't realise you were there? :)
Why does she need to be there, it's obvious isn't it?
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If you want to know whether the crime scene was interfered with look no further than ,
AE claiming she was told probably by Clarke , that SC was found on the bed , Clarke denied
telling AE , who was telling the truth ?
EP officer Jeapes claimed she saw what she believed was a gun at a window , backed up by a picture of a gun at a window , was Jeapes wrong ?
EP officer Adams claimed when he saw SC body on the floor it had no gun upon it , that he could remember and her head and the bible where in a different position than what he had seen previously !!
Now is it possible for all of them to be wrong ? If not the crime scene was stage managed and not by JB !!
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Pic is Sheila...
Isn't that a still from the documentary?
It's irrelevant though anyway Mike - if you had evidence on your magic "enigma" machine that could free Jeremy then you would have used it.
And if you do, and have chosen not to use it then you are even more despicable than the policemen you claim fitted him up.
Your choice...
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That despicable police officer "Stan" Jones, is reported to have said that when he saw Sheila in the bedroom, it appeared to him that she looked so peaceful, as though she was just a sleep...
Exactly how he came to such a conclusion what with two great big bullet holes in her throat, and blood awash all over her face and throat?
How can that be, then...
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That despicable police officer "Stan" Jones, is reported to have said that when he saw Sheila in the bedroom, it appeared to him that she looked so peaceful, as though she was just a sleep...
Exactly how he came to such a conclusion what with two great big bullet holes in her throat, and blood awash all over her face and throat?
How can that be, then...
What's that got to do with the price of eggs?
Either you have the evidence to free JB or you don't.
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What's that got to do with the price of eggs?
Either you have the evidence to free JB or you don't.
What have the price of eggs got to do with how DS "Stan" Jones describes what Sheila looked like when he first saw her body in the bedroom, where he states that she looked so peaceful and clean, and that to him it appeared as though Sheila was simply a sleep? You cannot describe how Sheila was shown in the stage managed photographs of her looking so peaceful and as though she was simply fast a sleep?
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What have the price of eggs got to do with how DS "Stan" Jones describes what Sheila looked like when he first saw her body in the bedroom, where he states that she looked so peaceful and clean, and that to him it appeared as though Sheila was simply a sleep? You cannot describe how Sheila was shown in the stage managed photographs of her looking so peaceful and as though she was simply fast a sleep?
Mike - I don't know how much more clearly anybody can put this to you...
ARE YOU IN POSSESSION OF EVIDENCE THAT CAN CLEAR JEREMY?
If "YES":
WHY ARE YOU LEAVING AN INNOCENT MAN LANGUISHING IN PRISON?
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Mike - I don't know how much more clearly anybody can put this to you...
ARE YOU IN POSSESSION OF EVIDENCE THAT CAN CLEAR JEREMY?
If "YES":
WHY ARE YOU LEAVING AN INNOCENT MAN LANGUISHING IN PRISON?
Yes, of course I have access to such evidence, and no I am not leaving an innocent man languishing in prison, and doing nothing at all about it...
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Yes, of course I have access to such evidence, and no I am not leaving an innocent man languishing in prison, and doing nothing at all about it...
FFS :-\
I would like to ask other long-term "pro" posters how they sit by and ignore this?
Roch?
NGB?
Keira - if she still posts here under another name?
It's a farce :-[
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FFS :-\
I would like to ask other long-term "pro" posters how they sit by and ignore this?
Roch?
NGB?
Keira - if she still posts here under another name?
It's a farce :-[
Just give Mike time. He knows what he's doing,without being prompted. After all,,the PII,police and Southend-on-sea have held onto information for years,,so why get on to Mike.
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Just give Mike time. He knows what he's doing,without being prompted. After all,,the PII,police and Southend-on-sea have held onto information for years,,so why get on to Mike.
I'm sure Jeremy is sat there in his cell echoing your sentiments ::)
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FFS :-\
I would like to ask other long-term "pro" posters how they sit by and ignore this?
Roch?
NGB?
Keira - if she still posts here under another name?
It's a farce :-[
I dont consider myself as a long term poster , but ive yet to leave and change my username, so i hope that stands for something, if evidence exists to offer an alternative version of events that night then it needs to be on the table now or never, i dont know for how much longer JB can remain in a position to carry on his fight, if he is at 60 and still no further along its time to come to terms no evidence exists, these events happened not a few years ago but over a quarter of a century ago, with lament the world was a better place then.
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FFS :-\
I would like to ask other long-term "pro" posters how they sit by and ignore this?
Roch?
NGB?
Keira - if she still posts here under another name?
It's a farce :-[
Their absence speaks volumes to me
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I dont consider myself as a long term poster , but ive yet to leave and change my username, so i hope that stands for something, if evidence exists to offer an alternative version of events that night then it needs to be on the table now or never, i dont know for how much longer JB can remain in a position to carry on his fight, if he is at 60 and still no further along its time to come to terms no evidence exists, these events happened not a few years ago but over a quarter of a century ago, with lament the world was a better place then.
IMO he's now In for his natural life. I'm sure mike will be banging his drum till then also
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I dont consider myself as a long term poster , but ive yet to leave and change my username, so i hope that stands for something, if evidence exists to offer an alternative version of events that night then it needs to be on the table now or never, i dont know for how much longer JB can remain in a position to carry on his fight, if he is at 60 and still no further along its time to come to terms no evidence exists, these events happened not a few years ago but over a quarter of a century ago, with lament the world was a better place then.
So as I understand this Mertol, you too now realise Mike is making it up as he goes along?
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IMO he's now In for his natural life. I'm sure mike will be banging his drum till then also
Its something that may well happen all i can add is i know without question such crimes could never be done and walk scott free no one can be that stupid, i regard 1980s forensic science as poor by todays standards but that is where courts decide on .
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So as I understand this Mertol, you too now realise Mike is making it up as he goes along?
I dont believe mike has evidence to free jeremy no, that does not mean to say evidence exists elsewhere beyond the reach of anyone.
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Its something that may well happen all i can add is i know without question such crimes could never be done and walk scott free no one can be that stupid, i regard 1980s forensic science as poor by todays standards but that is where courts decide on .
Don't get me wrong,IMO he should not of been found guilty,but now.... I bet he's in for good.
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Don't get me wrong,IMO he should not of been found guilty,but now.... I bet he's in for good.
You do suprise me tony i always thought you thought JB was guilty, i also feel the evidence to find him guilty is up for question, the problem is the moment a guilty person enteres prison in the eyes of the law you are guilty if you want to fight that passed sentence its all in your ball park from here on in.
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I respect mike i admire his stance to allow pro and anti posters on his forum, thats a very fair offer but time is running out and fast, the world moves on .
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Their absence speaks volumes to me
Absence speaks volumes for what? What are you referring to?
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I have enigma, and it is becoming more and more clearer as time moves on, that people are now starting to believe and accept that blood can run from entry wounds, and the mouth and the nostrils if somebody moves the body from one position to another, long after death has occurred (or not as the case may be)/ What is clear to me from the evidence I have access to, is that police moved Sheila's body from the bed to the bedroom floor, and that once PC Bird started to take pictures of Sheila on the floor, the rifle which had been leaning up against the bedroom window before the raid team entered the premises, ended up being photographed on top of Sheila's body on the floor whilst she had two entry wounds to her neck? What is very interesting is that with the aid of Enigma, it is possible to reconstruct what took place, who was involved and the sequence of events which led up to the stage managing of Sheila's body on the bedroom floor by police later on...
It is simply a case of relying upon the evidence given by the likes of WPC Julia Jeapes, DC Clarke, DS Jones, PS Adams, and PC Wright, which will be the undoing of the police conspiracy, not to mention the involvement of members of a second team of firearms officers who carried out a training exercise once the vast majority of the original raid team had left the scene at about 9am...
What DC Clarke told Ann Eaton about Sheila's body being found on the bed, and what DS Jones has said about the state and condition of Sheila's body when he saw it insitu at the scene, for example, that she looked so peaceful as though she was simply a sleep, does not sit well with what other police officers have said and what is shown in the crime scene photographs taken by PC Bird showing Sheila's body on the bedroom floor with two bullet entry wounds in her neck, and blood awash everywhere...
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Absence speaks volumes for what? What are you referring to?
Presumably Tony was, quite reasonably, interpretting your lack of comment as indicative of you having put this topic into the "too inconvenient to comment on" basket.
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Let us also not forget that upon being told by the police that all his family were dead, that Jeremy accused the police of killing them all, but bis complaint was never investigated at all?
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Let us also not forget that upon being told by the police that all his family were dead, that Jeremy accused the police of killing them all, but bis complaint was never investigated at all?
As much as i wish this case to be resolved either way , my expierience in grief tells me Jeremy blamed them because they waited so long to storm the farm, its possible some family members could have been saved its possible.
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As much as i wish this case to be resolved either way , my expierience in grief tells me Jeremy blamed them because they waited so long to storm the farm, its possible some family members could have been saved its possible.
Oh yes I forgot-this was when Jeremy was in the back of the Police car feigning grief,then a few hours later after having heard of the deaths he seemed to have cheered up somewhat,cooking himself a hearty breakfast..
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Oh yes I forgot-this was when Jeremy was in the back of the Police car feigning grief,then a few hours later after having heard of the deaths he seemed to have cheered up somewhat,cooking himself a hearty breakfast..
Why shouldn't he have ate any breakfast, he had done nothing wrong, other than be told his family were all dead - he was not told exactly how each victim had died either in individual circumstances or collective circumstances, so what is so wrong about somebody like Jeremy being hungry and eating some breakfast? He had been awoken in the middle of the night by a telephone call from his father, and had been told to go to the scene by PC West, and had been there at the scene with the police until about 9:30am, and had not had anything at all to eat since supper the previous evening (with his family) so why try to make such a big thing out of absolutely nothing?
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The title of this thread is rather appropriate ( ENIGMA. Code word for Bullshit) because that is precisely what the prosecutions case as relied upon during trial and since, was / is - BULLSHIT...
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Oh yes I forgot-this was when Jeremy was in the back of the Police car feigning grief,then a few hours later after having heard of the deaths he seemed to have cheered up somewhat,cooking himself a hearty breakfast..
Why is it that many antis seem to refer to Wilkes book as gospel?
Why cant you draw you own conclusions (as to what happened that fateful night/morning) using any evidence instead of speculation/hearsay?
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Morning Mike that is what steve does latches onto something and blows it all out of proportion especially if it relates to a negative against Jeremy.
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The version of events as relied upon by the prosecution to prosecute and convict Jeremy is absolute bullshit, and does not hold water...
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Morning Mike that is what steve does latches onto something and blows it all out of proportion especially if it relates to a negative against Jeremy.
yes, I can see that - but he is entitled to his opinion, all the same just like everybody else is...
Thing is, I don't see how Jeremy having any breakfast at about 9:45 - 10:15am, when he has had nothing at all to eat for over 11 hours in any way proves he killed anybody, or that it makes him a callous killer? To put it another way, according to the pathology report Sheila had ate something during the middle of the night because the contents of her stomach had not properly digested at the time of her death? What I find interesting about this, is that there was / is no mention of the state of the parents stomach contents...
(it begs the question, how could Sheila eat in the middle of the night after or just before she slaughtered everyone)?
How long does it take the stomach to digest, and was it possible to establish exactly when Sheila last ate, if for example we place the time of her death at about 9:30am, or there abouts?
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Food takes 3 to 4 hours to reach the stomach and semi-digested food remains in the stomach for 3 to 5 hours.
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Hi Mike I agree everyone is entitled to their own opinion it is how it is expressed at times that disturbs me does not have to be done in such an aggressive sarcastic way after all we are just debating and I assume we are all adults.
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According to an analysis by Enigma - police are responsible for changing / altering the alleged sequence of events regarding what took place when police first entered the premises and what they found, where they found it, and how they interpreted what they had found, Enigma also pinpoints the specific time periods when police sought to (and succeeded) in changing the events as they unfolded, by trying to eliminate what actually happened and what did take place, and identifying the police officers who were involved in Sheila's death scene in the bedroom at about 9:30am, that morning...
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Food takes 3 to 4 hours to reach the stomach and semi-digested food remains in the stomach for 3 to 5 hours.
This is very interesting if say Sheila died inside the bedroom at around 9:30am, since it places her in the kitchen where she possible got something to eat, around the time ( or perhaps a little earlier) police were engaged in so called conversations with someone from inside the farmhouse (5:25am)?
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This is very interesting if say Sheila died inside the bedroom at around 9:30am, since it places her in the kitchen where she possible got something to eat, around the time ( or perhaps a little earlier) police were engaged in so called conversations with someone from inside the farmhouse (5:25am)?
According to DS "Stan" Jones, when he saw Sheila's body in the bedroom before he went off to Jeremy's house to take a statement from him in the presence of DC Clarke and Ann Eaton, "Sheila looked so peaceful and clean, as though she was simply a sleep", yet if Jeremy killed her there is no way anyone could say her body looked peaceful and clean, as though she was a sleep with two great big bullet entry wounds on her neck / throat, and blood in abundance everywhere and all around? Sheila looked peaceful and as though she was a sleep when DS Jones viewed her body, because by that stage she did not have two great big bullet entry wounds on her neck, she only had a small solitary wound there, with a faint trickle of dried blood running vertically towards the collar of her nightdress...
DS Jones had left the scene by the time another police officer had taken possession of the rifle which WPC Jeapes had seen leaning against the bedroom window, was taken and placed in different positions upon Sheila's body with the barrel all over the place in the region of her neck / throat, and the fingers of her hand upon and around the trigger mechanism - "BANG", if she wasn't dead by that stage, she was now...
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Imagine for one moment - Sheila on the bed, or wherever, and DS "Stan" the man Jones, there in the bedroom, looking down upon the body of Sheila caffell, a sight which causes him to describe what he saw and sees as " Sheila looking so peaceful, clean and as though she was simply a sleep"? Does he see two great big bullet entry wounds on her neck / throat? Does he see blood running , leaking and pouring from both wounds and from the corners of her mouth and left nostril? No he does not, he does not see these things at that stage when he was there in the bedroom, before he was sent away by DCI Jones to take a statement from Jeremy back at his cottage...
What DS "Stan" Jones sees, is Sheila on the bed with a solitary wound upon her neck and only a very small faint trickle of dried blood which ran in a vertical fashion down her neck towards the collar of her nightdress. (This is what is visible in the photograph I have seen (been shown) when Sheila was on the bed with only a solitary wound there. I do not have a copy of this / that photograph, so don't even bother to go down that road trying to suggest that I have said I have or did...
Stop for a moment and ask yourselves a serious question - "Why would Mike Teskowski make something like this up"?
Look at the photographs which PC Bird took later when Sheila's body had been moved from the bed to the floor at a time when she now has two bullet wounds upon her neck / throat, and the rifle is back on her body, and a bible miraculously appears resting on Sheila's arm. Just imagine, or try to picture only one wound there on her neck, with no horizontal blood leakage at all on her neck or coming from the two visible entry wounds or the corners of her mouth, etc...
All you can see is a solitary entry wound, with a very faint trickle of dried blood running in vertical fashion done the throat, rather than across it? Now, revert back to the pictures of two wounds on her throat with blood escaping from the entry wounds, and the corners of her mouth in a horizontal fashion, and ask yourselves why none of this fresh looking blood ( or lets say blood that got there later on) shows no sign of running vertically, only horizontally? How is / was it possible for there to exist a vertical trail of blood from the lower entry wound, yet the blood which came later elsewhere only shows features of blood having run in an horizontal fashion?
The feature of vertically bound blood from beneath the lower entry wound, is at odds with the horizontally bound blood from the two entry wound sites, and the corners of her mouth...
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Oh yes I forgot-this was when Jeremy was in the back of the Police car feigning grief,then a few hours later after having heard of the deaths he seemed to have cheered up somewhat,cooking himself a hearty breakfast..
There you go again,Steve. " Big hearty breakfast ",my eye. The cops were at Goldhanger with Jeremy and had suggested he eat something. All he had in his 'fridge were a couple of rashers of bacon,and a few slices of bread. If there'd been any cheese on the mousetrap he'd have used that as well.
Ever seen a bachelors larder/pantry.? Bare cupboards because they mainly eat out,,or in Jeremys' case,,because he worked on the farm,most of his meals were eaten there.
So another slight/lie on a biased link because they've got nothing else nasty to come out with.
Jeremy did NOT eat a hearty breakfast.
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ENIGMA exposes the prosecutions case as BULLSHIT, and presents the reader with access to information which relates as close as possible without physical access to the withheld millions of documents which the police and CPS are frightened to death of ever having to release, because it will show that the state and its agencies are a bunch of criminals who should all be locked up in jail and the key thrown away, because they have lied, they have falsified evidence, they have conspired to convict an innocent man for a series of murders that he could not and did not commit. These same people think nothing of fabricating evidence, they simply think it up, type statements out saying it, and it becomes accepted as the truth - they are a wicked bunch of individuals and they should all be prosecuted and sent to prison for long terms of imprisonment...
Agencies of the state, like the CCRC are somewhat very reluctant to expose what took place and went off in this case (and others), because it was created to protect the image of the state and the criminal justice system, not to expose it as corrupt at times, and on some occasions...
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Morning lookout steve has a vivid imagination and should perhaps write novels I know we are all entitled to our own opinion but I think steve is economical with the facts stated. ;)
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Oh yes I forgot-this was when Jeremy was in the back of the Police car feigning grief,then a few hours later after having heard of the deaths he seemed to have cheered up somewhat,cooking himself a hearty breakfast..
You sound just like Harry Rag. He writes similar rubbish about Amanda Knox. The kind of stuff that's typical of any smear campaign, you know, the kind of thing like Barbara Wilson saying "He didn't seem to care at all. In fact, he was happy as a lark! What cobblers! You don't work for a tabloid newspaper do you?
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FFS :-\
I would like to ask other long-term "pro" posters how they sit by and ignore this?
Roch?
NGB?
Keira - if she still posts here under another name?
It's a farce :-[
Their absence speaks volumes to me
Absence speaks volumes for what? What are you referring to?
Presumably Tony was, quite reasonably, interpretting your lack of comment as indicative of you having put this topic into the "too inconvenient to comment on" basket.
Sorry bob & tony... I will now read this thread fully to see what Mike is arguing.
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I have now read the thread. Some interesting posts from several posters across the divide but I do not really understand what 'Enigma' is or how whatever it is, came to be either in Mike's possession or accessible to Mike. I can see that the conclusion for some posters is that 'Enigma' is an invention.
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I dont consider myself as a long term poster , but ive yet to leave and change my username, so i hope that stands for something, if evidence exists to offer an alternative version of events that night then it needs to be on the table now or never, i dont know for how much longer JB can remain in a position to carry on his fight, if he is at 60 and still no further along its time to come to terms no evidence exists, these events happened not a few years ago but over a quarter of a century ago, with lament the world was a better place then.
'IF' someone has evidence that would prove JB's innocence - I can think of no reason on earth why they would hand that evidence over with immediate effect. On the other hand, I can't understand why someone would just say they had such evidence in the knowledge that they really had diddly!
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You do suprise me tony i always thought you thought JB was guilty, i also feel the evidence to find him guilty is up for question, the problem is the moment a guilty person enteres prison in the eyes of the law you are guilty if you want to fight that passed sentence its all in your ball park from here on in.
Completely incorrect.
It is true that it is a fact that JB is guilty,as found by a jury of his peers. Wether you agree with that is imeterial to the actual outcome of that trial. That trial is historical fact that cannot be changed. That is unless now mikes finished the enigma super computor in the shed, he can begin work on his TARDIS....
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Absence speaks volumes for what? What are you referring to?
Not you Roch,not you....
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Presumably Tony was, quite reasonably, interpretting your lack of comment as indicative of you having put this topic into the "too inconvenient to comment on" basket.
No,some of the lemmings are not following certain threads or commenting in support of MT. That to me speaks volumes. Ps I refer to lemmings not abusively,just as in the manner of the 90's video game.
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I have now read the thread. Some interesting posts from several posters across the divide but I do not really understand what 'Enigma' is or how whatever it is, came to be either in Mike's possession or accessible to Mike. I can see that the conclusion for some posters is that 'Enigma' is an invention.
True.
Let's face it, MT has a vivid imagination in some respects,and now having built a super-computor in the shed has imputed over a million documents by hand,all on the quiet,he names it after the Nazi coding machine.
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Morning lookout steve has a vivid imagination and should perhaps write novels I know we are all entitled to our own opinion but I think steve is economical with the facts stated. ;)
Hi Susan,,,only just seen your post. I go out pretty early on a Saturday morning to have coffee with a friend while we discuss the weeks events,,so I was gone longer than anticipated,but not to worry.
While we're handing out facts and suggestions,,,poor Steve's there in the background with his put-downs, to which there's no substantiating back-ups. Only biased drivel straight from the Anorak scene,which is likened to reading the Beano.
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Lol, didn't you just yesterday cite the Daily Mail as substantiation for the 'fact' that CPR was performed on Sheila?
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Lol, didn't you just yesterday cite the Daily Mail as substantiation for the 'fact' that CPR was performed on Sheila?
And.?
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Didn't I also say that regardless of links,the media books,newspapers etc,,that NONE of us knows what happened. ? Unless any of us were there.?
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True.
Let's face it, MT has a vivid imagination in some respects,and now having built a super-computor in the shed has imputed over a million documents by hand,all on the quiet,he names it after the Nazi coding machine.
I bet these are worth a bit when they come up on the Antiques Roadshow...
(http://static.bbc.co.uk/history/img/ic/640/images/resources/topics/enigma.jpg)
I honestly don't know what is meant by 'Enigma' in the sense that Mike is referring to. But there is this:
http://www.enigmadata.com/index.php/products/ids
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Hi lookout you have a wonderful way with words :)
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And.?
I didn't think it required explanation really but basically, you are criticising Steve for doing exactly what you yourself do.
For what it's worth, Jeremy had toast and bacon for breakfast and that is a fact that even he doesn't dispute.
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Hi lookout you have a wonderful way with words :)
Hi Susan. Lookout is a funny lady, she certainly does have a way with words, but she is a very nice lady...her bark is worse than her bite....I've known her many years...lolol :) :) :) :)
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Hi Patti I think lookout is a wonderful lady and very well informed on the case we are debating. I know she does not mince her words but neither do many others on here. :)
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Hi Susan. Lookout is a funny lady, she certainly does have a way with words, but she is a very nice lady...her bark is worse than her bite....I've known her many years...lolol :) :) :) :)
Oh hey you two. I'm not used to compliments like that,,but I thank you both.
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lookout you are worthy of the compliments take them and enjoy ;)
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Hi Patti I think lookout is a wonderful lady and very well informed on the case we are debating. I know she does not mince her words but neither do many others on here. :)
I suppose you can thank the tough discipline I received many years ago from Matron ( Mussolini in knickers )
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http://www.enigmadata.com/
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You sound just like Harry Rag. He writes similar rubbish about Amanda Knox. The kind of stuff that's typical of any smear campaign, you know, the kind of thing like Barbara Wilson saying "He didn't seem to care at all. In fact, he was happy as a lark! What cobblers! You don't work for a tabloid newspaper do you?
Martin if I were you I would earn my stripes first on this site before making any more denigratory comments about my person-I am Steve_uk Senior Member. As for Barbara Wilson,I would be very careful before bringing her into the argument as to resolving the issue of the guilt or innocence of Jeremy Bamber..
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Hi Susan,,,only just seen your post. I go out pretty early on a Saturday morning to have coffee with a friend while we discuss the weeks events,,so I was gone longer than anticipated,but not to worry.
While we're handing out facts and suggestions,,,poor Steve's there in the background with his put-downs, to which there's no substantiating back-ups. Only biased drivel straight from the Anorak scene,which is likened to reading the Beano.
Far be it from me to get personal or attack a lady but you couldn't possibly know whether Jeremy Bamber was guilty or innocent from the first day as I think you are quoted as saying. Of course Sheila was a suspect just as Jeremy was,but you have to weigh the evidence in its totality and I am firm in my belief beyond reasonable doubt that Jeremy is guilty. My posts are usually backed up with sources I have read from the internet or intelligent speculations given the psychology of the protagonists concerned.
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Far be it from me to get personal or attack a lady but you couldn't possibly know whether Jeremy Bamber was guilty or innocent from the first day as I think you are quoted as saying. Of course Sheila was a suspect just as Jeremy was,but you have to weigh the evidence in its totality and I am firm in my belief beyond reasonable doubt that Jeremy is guilty. My posts are usually backed up with sources I have read from the internet or intelligent speculations given the psychology of the protagonists concerned.
Police who examined the scene, with all the clues available to them, came to an independant view that Sheila was responsible for shooting and killing the others, and for then going on to take her own life - that judgement was the correct one in all the circumstances of this case, a conclusion which a month later was arrived at again when DCI Kinnealy carried out a review of the original investigation at the behest of ACC Peter Simpson...
Sheila did it, there is no doubt at all about this /that...
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Police who examined the scene, with all the clues available to them, came to an in dependant view that Sheila was responsible for shooting and killing the others, and for then going on to take her own life - that judgement was the correct one in all the circumstances of this case, a conclusion which a month later was arrived at again when DCI Kinnealy carried out a review of the original investigation at the behest of ACC Peter Simpson...
Sheila did it, there is no doubt at all about this /that...
I'm sure the whole world and his dog thought that Sheila had done it that morning-what else was there to think? Unfortunately though sometimes life is not always so simple(remember John Reginald Christie and Timothy Evans?)and as good as Sheila as a suspect was we also had another personage in the mix who over the past year had expressed a sustained wish to do away with his entire family.
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I didn't think it required explanation really but basically, you are criticising Steve for doing exactly what you yourself do.
For what it's worth, Jeremy had toast and bacon for breakfast and that is a fact that even he doesn't dispute.
Absolutely Bridget,
I cant see how Bamber could dispute it since there were two police officers present who witnessed it. Both of them were astonished by his seeming callousness.
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Absolutely Bridget,
I cant see how Bamber could dispute it since there were two police officers present who witnessed it. Both of them were astonished by his seeming callousness.
No, they weren't, at least not until the nature of the investigation changed from four murders and a suicide, into five murders - their opinion came later and was not recorded at the material time. This is / was a form of how police officers stitch suspects up, usually by introducing verbal, but in this case a rather more subtle approach by them trying to portray Jeremy as callous....
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Absolutely Bridget,
I cant see how Bamber could dispute it since there were two police officers present who witnessed it. Both of them were astonished by his seeming callousness.
I have read that the police encouraged Jeremy to eat as he was in such a dreadful state....just depends which version you read.
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Absolutely Bridget,
I cant see how Bamber could dispute it since there were two police officers present who witnessed it. Both of them were astonished by his seeming callousness.
Moe and Rhodes, which one of you is Tim and which one of you is John? It's the same old tired mantras and cliches repeated over and over again, like a broken record :-\
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Hi lookout I will toss you for which one of us is a lady :) ;) ;)
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I'm sure the whole world and his dog thought that Sheila had done it that morning-what else was there to think? Unfortunately though sometimes life is not always so simple(remember John Reginald Christie and Timothy Evans?)and as good as Sheila as a suspect was we also had another personage in the mix who over the past year had expressed a sustained wish to do away with his entire family.
Oh yeah, so who stage managed Sheila's body on the bedroom floor then by reference to photographs 27 and 32 respectively? You have a major problem there because Jeremy was not inside the bedroom when the police stage managed Sheila's body by moving the barrel of the rifle from a resting position at the left side of her neck (27) to a revised position underneath her chin (32) and then lo and behold, they use the photographs which shows the position of the rifles barrel (32) beneath her chin to tell the jury and to hoodwink them into accepting the false claim that this was how police had found Sheila's body (as per 32) when all along they deliberately withheld photograph 27 and the other pictures which show Sheila's body ion the bed (beforehand)? It was al-right to blame Jeremy for stage managing his sisters body on the bedroom floor, but we all now know the police stage managed her body there, and blamed Jeremy for doing that which they themselves had done, and did do...
What took place here, was disgraceful, and a criminal act by the police, and anyone who supports what they did and what they have done behave like they are criminals themselves, people who have no respect for the due process of law - they believe it is al-right to fabricate and falsify evidence, and that when police or any other member of the agencies of the state resort to such tactics, that they did nothing at all wrong - fucking scumbag criminals the lot of them...
Judgement day is looming large friend or foe, its looming large, god help those lying, dishonest, conspiring, fraudulent scumbag witnesses, who told lies to get an innocent man convicted for murders he could not, and did not commit...
praise be to god...
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Far be it from me to get personal or attack a lady but you couldn't possibly know whether Jeremy Bamber was guilty or innocent from the first day as I think you are quoted as saying. Of course Sheila was a suspect just as Jeremy was,but you have to weigh the evidence in its totality and I am firm in my belief beyond reasonable doubt that Jeremy is guilty. My posts are usually backed up with sources I have read from the internet or intelligent speculations given the psychology of the protagonists concerned.
Okay,Steve,let's see these intelligent,backed-up sources of yours,,that you find far more superior and truthful in content than anyone elses. Unless you are a cop, and who was physically at the scene,then whatever you have to say is only on a par with our information,,isn't it.? Supposition. Except that our supposition is more feasible than yours. I await your bowel-gripping theories.
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Okay,Steve,let's see these intelligent,backed-up sources of yours,,that you find far more superior and truthful in content than anyone elses. Unless you are a cop, and who was physically at the scene,then whatever you have to say is only on a par with our information,,isn't it.? Supposition. Except that our supposition is more feasible than yours. I await your bowel-gripping theories.
I have posted a piece under the "third way" thread which will have to slake your desire ad interim whilst I watch albeit at a distance a few Olympic events.
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Hi lookout you will just have to hold your breath whilst steve watches the Olympics I am sure it will be well worth waiting for.