Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Adam on October 27, 2025, 05:28:AM
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He would find it incredible that Sheila decided to shoot her mother, father & 2 sons while they slept. Because of an aledged fostering conversation hours earlier.
He would not believe Nevill would start phoning his clients AM after being shot 4 times.
He would not believe Sheila would totally overpower a man who had managed to get downstairs & phone his client.
He knew Sheila could not lift Nevill onto the coal scuttle.
He knew Sheila could not shoot herself with the silencer attached.
He knew Sheila could not put the silencer away after her first shot.
He would not believe Julie would compile a 23 page WS & testify just because they had split up.
He knew of the hatred and resentment his client had towards his family. And of the caravan break in.
He knew of Sheila's physical and mental limitations and lack of knowledge with weapons.
He knew there was no evidence on Sheila that she had committed the massacre.
He knew it was possible to cycle to/from WHF & a bike had arrived at his clients house 2 days earlier.
He knew it was possible to get in and out of the WHF windows and there was evidence he had done so.
He knew Sheila's parents and CC did not believe her capable of such a crime. As she was staying at WHF.
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I personally believe he didnt believe him, he felt him guilty but its not his job to have an opinion. He just presents his clients case.
Jeremy from the get go was adamant he was innocent ( which he still portrays to this day)
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Paul Terzeon the solicitor while not professing a view recollects a good pre trial working relationship with Jeremy.
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Rivlin was chiefly a prosecutor.
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He would find it incredible that Sheila decided to shoot her mother, father & 2 sons while they slept. Because of an aledged fostering conversation hours earlier.
He would not believe Nevill would start phoning his clients AM after being shot 4 times.
He would not believe Sheila would totally overpower a man who had managed to get downstairs & phone his client.
He knew Sheila could not lift Nevill onto the coal scuttle.
He knew Sheila could not shoot herself with the silencer attached.
He knew Sheila could not put the silencer away after her first shot.
He would not believe Julie would compile a 23 page WS & testify just because they had split up.
He knew of the hatred and resentment his client had towards his family. And of the caravan break in.
He knew of Sheila's physical and mental limitations and lack of knowledge with weapons.
He knew there was no evidence on Sheila that she had committed the massacre.
He knew it was possible to cycle to/from WHF & a bike had arrived at his clients house 2 days earlier.
He knew it was possible to get in and out of the WHF windows and there was evidence he had done so.
He's not emotionally involved or at least hes not supposed to be.
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I doubt Rivlin would have put Jeremy in the witness box had he not believed him.
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So several major reasons why Rivlin would not believe his client.
But that is the case with all clients the defence represent. A person is not arrested, charged and put through the CPS for no reason.
It is up to the defence lawyer to create reasonable doubt. If the case goes to trial.
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Dont believe the fostering conversation was heavily weighed on as the reason " shelia lost it "
If it was Bamber would have not suggested " she remained pretty vacant " he would have claimed it riled her or she expressed herself angrily about it"
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I doubt Rivlin would have put Jeremy in the witness box had he not believed him.
An adverse inference would have been taken. It would have looked shady if Jeremy didnt take the stand. Like he had something to hide, even though it was his right. For me it was a good idea he did take the stand. He didnt actually fare that bad and came off relatively unscathed.
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EP & the CPS would be confident in either getting an admittance of guilt & no trial. Or a guilty verdict if it went to trial.
There was no benefit to Bamber in admitting guilt for a lesser sentence. As the crime was so bad.
So EP & the CPS had to be confident in securing a guilty verdict at trial.
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EP & the CPS would be confident in either getting an admittance of guilt & no trial. Or a guilty verdict if it went to trial.
There was no benefit to Bamber in admitting guilt for a lesser sentence. As the crime was so bad.
So EP & the CPS had to be confident in securing a guilty verdict at trial.
The prosecution wouldnt have been brought if they didnt feel it was the case.
Seems Jeremy was confident in getting an aquittal.
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If the crime was less serious, Rivlin would have recommend his client admits guilt as there was so much evidence against him.
To not waste court time and money & to get a lesser sentence.
But he could not do that with this case. The crime was so serious and his client was determined to dig in.
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If the crime was less serious cases, Rivlin would have recommend his client admits guilt as there was so much evidence against him.
To not waste court time and money & to get a lesser sentence.
But he could not do that with this case. The crime was so serious and his client was determined to dig in.
Most defendants on a M charge are going to run trial.
Even with a gulity plea you are still get mandatory life.
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A benefit of Bamber not admitting guilt, is he has been able to spend the next 40 years pleading innocence.
Both in the media, to his supporters and to the justice system.
A successful Sion Jenkins esq appeal after 10 years & he would still be a young man.
Doubtful he was looking that far ahead. He just wanted a 'not guilty' at trial.
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Dont believe the fostering conversation was heavily weighed on as the reason " shelia lost it "
If it was Bamber would have not suggested " she remained pretty vacant " he would have claimed it riled her or she expressed herself angrily about it"
Sheila murdering her family for no reason would not be believed by Rivlin.
Her parents & CC were comfortable with Sheila & the twins staying at WHF
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Dont believe the fostering conversation was heavily weighed on as the reason " shelia lost it "
If it was Bamber would have not suggested " she remained pretty vacant " he would have claimed it riled her or she expressed herself angrily about it"
I think Nevill might well have been upset that a lot of the work in caring for the twins was falling on his wife. Remember Sheila for the most part lived in London and by the last few months it was Colin who cared mostly for them. I don't think Nevill and June realized the extent of Sheila's condition and how it impacted her daily life.
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I think Nevill might well have been upset that a lot of the work in caring for the twins was falling on his wife. Remember Sheila for the most part lived in London and by the last few months it was Colin who cared mostly for them. I don't think Nevill and June realized the extent of Sheila's condition and how it impacted her daily life.
You only have to look at the conversation with Helen Grimster two months prior to see that she was heavily declining.
This is why Jeremy would have thought she would have made a perfect scapegoat. The whole crime rested on Shelia being the scapegoat.
For me, he wouldnt have attempted it if he felt she was completley out of it. He isnt that stupid.
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You only have to look at the conversation with Helen Grimster two months prior to see that she was heavily declining.
This is why Jeremy would have thought she would have made a perfect scapegoat. The whole crime rested on Shelia being the scapegoat.
For me, he wouldnt have attempted it if he felt she was completley out of it. He isnt that stupid.
It also gave him a justification in his own warped mind. In that sense it's similar to the David Bain case, where he typed the sentence on the computer: Sorry, you're the only one who deserved to stay.
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Bamber's narrative on the night was/is -
There were fostering conversations.
He had left a loaded rifle out after going to shoot rabbits.
Nevill had rang him & said 'please come over, Sheila's gone crazy & she's got the gun'. Before the line went dead.
Sheila was a 'loony' who knew how to use all the weapons & should be locked up.
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The judge said in his summing up, Sheila being non responsive regarding the aledged fostering conversation, means it cannot be used as a motivation for her aledged actions.
This is damaging as the judge is asking the jury to believe Sheila shot her mother, father & sons in bed for no reason.
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Bamber's narrative on the night was/is -
There were fostering conversations.
He had left a loaded rifle out after going to shoot rabbits.
Nevill had rang him & said 'please come over, Sheila's gone crazy & she's got the gun'. Before the line went dead.
Sheila was a 'loony' who knew how to use all the weapons & should be locked up.
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The judge said in his summing up, Sheila being non responsive regarding the aledged fostering conversation, means it cannot be used as a motivation for her aledged actions.
This is damaging as the judge is asking the jury to believe Sheila shot her mother, father & sons in bed for no reason.
Why do you keep posting all this rubbish?
Assuming Sheila was the shooter and that she survived she would not even have been charged with murder. She had PS she did not need a reason to kill.
Have a look at the case of Valdo Calocane he killed three and attempted to kill three others.
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Why do you keep posting all this rubbish?
Assuming Sheila was the shooter and that she survived she would not even have been charged with murder. She had PS she did not need a reason to kill.
Have a look at the case of Valdo Calocane he killed three and attempted to kill three others.
The jury will not believe Sheila killed her family while they slept. For no reason.
Nevill and June were heavily financially & emotionally supporting Sheila. She was staying at WHF on a holiday. Agreed by CC.
The twins were her children.
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The jury will not believe Sheila killed her family while they slept. For no reason.
Nevill and June were heavily financially & emotionally supporting Sheila. She was staying at WHF on a holiday. Agreed by CC.
The twins were her children.
When women with PS kill it often involves their children, as you know.
No reason needed.
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When women with PS kill it often involves their children, as you know.
No reason needed.
The jury are not going to believe that Nevill, June and CC invited Sheila and the twins for a summer holiday at WHF.
Then Sheila killed her mother, father & children while they slept for no reason.
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The jury are not going to believe that Nevill, June and CC invited Sheila and the twins for a summer holiday at WHF.
Then Sheila killed her mother, father & children while they slept for no reason.
Bambers train of thought is that he had found a perfect scapegoat in Shelia.
Having weighed up the pros and cons ( which he must have done ) he must have thought it was worth a gamble.
He had a good knowledge of her mental health history and problems, his WS 7.8.85 recalls it in detail. Whilst he may not have understood it as he claims.
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For me if my alternative suspect is " out of it with the fairies more or less bed bound and no strength" is not a good alternative suspect and isnt worth a gamble.
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He would find it incredible that Sheila decided to shoot her mother, father & 2 sons while they slept. Because of an aledged fostering conversation hours earlier.
He would not believe Nevill would start phoning his clients AM after being shot 4 times.
He would not believe Sheila would totally overpower a man who had managed to get downstairs & phone his client.
He knew Sheila could not lift Nevill onto the coal scuttle.
He knew Sheila could not shoot herself with the silencer attached.
He knew Sheila could not put the silencer away after her first shot.
He would not believe Julie would compile a 23 page WS & testify just because they had split up.
He knew of the hatred and resentment his client had towards his family. And of the caravan break in.
He knew of Sheila's physical and mental limitations and lack of knowledge with weapons.
He knew there was no evidence on Sheila that she had committed the massacre.
He knew it was possible to cycle to/from WHF & a bike had arrived at his clients house 2 days earlier.
He knew it was possible to get in and out of the WHF windows and there was evidence he had done so.
He knew Sheila's parents and CC did not believe her capable of such a crime. As she was staying at WHF.
Correct. The skill of a barrister (and Rivlin was a highly experiences and very well respected on) is presenting one side of an argument is as plausible as possible.
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Bambers train of thought is that he had found a perfect scapegoat in Shelia.
Having weighed up the pros and cons ( which he must have done ) he must have thought it was worth a gamble.
He had a good knowledge of her mental health history and problems, his WS 7.8.85 recalls it in detail. Whilst he may not have understood it as he claims.
He would have observed his sister from the Sunday night onwards. He must have thought the timing of the dastardly scheme was propitious or he wouldn't have gone ahead with it.
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For me if my alternative suspect is " out of it with the fairies more or less bed bound and no strength" is not a good alternative suspect and isnt worth a gamble.
But what could the relatives do apart from protest to police? He nearly got away with it.
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He was using the 2 extremes -
Sheila would be a lamb to the slaughter for him.
He then had to convince the police the opposite. That she was too strong for everyone inside WHF.
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He would have observed his sister from the Sunday night onwards. He must have thought the timing of the dastardly scheme was propitious or he wouldn't have gone ahead with it.
It may have been down to his own frustrations as well. His anger and bitterness may have overrided.
Exhaustion and hatred is a deadly combo. He had worked a 14 hour shift.
If he argued that afternoon in the field with Shelia it may have just simply snapped him.
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But what could the relatives do apart from protest to police? He nearly got away with it.
All points to an rash and hasty on the spur decision.
The dialogue to Julie
The overkill on Nevill
The two shot suicide
The moderator.
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It may have been down to his own frustrations as well. His anger and bitterness may have overrided.
Exhaustion and hatred is a deadly combo. He had worked a 14 hour shift.
If he argued that afternoon in the field with Shelia it may have just simply snapped him.
I wonder how much of Jeremy's social life Sheila knew. The argument couldn't have been about his work rate as he had buckled down those last few months, albeit to fulfil the provisions of Nevill's will.
Of course, there may not have been an argument at all, though I sense there was. https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3760.msg151053.html#msg151053
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All points to an rash and hasty on the spur decision.
The dialogue to Julie
The overkill on Nevill
The two shot suicide
The moderator.
It had all been conjecture hitherto, but the family was all under one roof and the reality registered. As he told Julie in the first telephone call, it was "now or never." The tragedy was it almost was never, as his girlfriend rambled on about her day at work, failing to recognize the import of his words. He could now be a wealthy man in his own right, sharing the inheritance with Sheila, excluding the Pargeters and looking back at what a fool he had been to contemplate such diablerie, instead of the incarceration which he faces until the day he dies.
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It had all been conjecture hitherto, but the family was all under one roof and the reality registered. As he told Julie in the first telephone call, it was "now or never." The tragedy was it almost was never, as his girlfriend rambled on about her day at work, failing to recognize the import of his words. He could now be a wealthy man in his own right, sharing the inheritance with Sheila, excluding the Pargeters and looking back at what a fool he had been to contemplate such diablerie, instead of the incarceration which he faces until the day he dies.
Now or never, especially after a 14 hour shift on a weekday evening translates to ," Ive had enough Im doing it "
Even with the long backlog of pre talk and planning. All it takes is a stressor to push someone to it.
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I wonder how much of Jeremy's social life Sheila knew. The argument couldn't have been about his work rate as he had buckled down those last few months, albeit to fulfil the provisions of Nevill's will.
Of course, there may not have been an argument at all, though I sense there was. https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3760.msg151053.html#msg151053
It may have been over something trivial but if one is harbouring resentment it can fester.
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Both sides agreed at trial the silencer was on the rifle during the massacre. Which would have given Rivlin huge doubt.
It wasn't until the mid 90's that Bamber realised he would have to disagree with both sides.
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He was using the 2 extremes -
Sheila would be a lamb to the slaughter for him.
He then had to convince the police the opposite. That she was too strong for everyone inside WHF.
Would have liked Heidi Blake to have put to him on tape the " Your dad was too strong to be killed by Shelia "
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A letter on FB from CC says on most days the 5 year old twins had to dress themselves, make there own breakfast and then wake a sleeping Sheila. So she could take them to school.
Sadly all of them lambs to the slaughter on the 7th August 1985.
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A letter on FB from CC says on most days the 5 year old twins had to dress themselves, make there own breakfast and then wake a sleeping Sheila. So she could take them to school.
Sadly all of them lambs to the slaughter on the 7th August 1985.
Jeremy wouldn't have attempted this massacre if Shelia was completely out of it.
Would have been msdness.
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The twins may have been taken away by social services if CC was not available.
CC said they were constantly late for school & under performing while with Sheila.
Sheila was on the brink of going into hospital for a long period. Unable to function. The twins couldn't stay at WHF as they needed to continue going to school.
CC took over looking after the twins to prevent a social services intervention.
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CC said the twins were complaining to him about Sheila's poor communication towards them.
It is saying something when 5 year olds complain about the communication of an adult.
Sheila's two long term stays in hospital resulted in CC, Nevill & June taking over control of Sheila & the twins.
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CC said the twins were complaining to him about Sheila's poor communication towards them.
It is saying something when 5 year olds complain about the communication of an adult.
Sheila's two long term stays in hospital resulted in CC, Nevill & June taking over control of Sheila & the twins.
Not going to go over old ground when a wealth of evidence exists to suggest Shelia had dexterity.
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Sheila was in prime condition for Bamber.
Was able to walk so it could be claimed she could travel around WHF with the rifle. Simultaneously she would sleep through the massacre and put up no resistance.
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Sheila murdering her family for no reason would not be believed by Rivlin.
Her parents & CC were comfortable with Sheila & the twins staying at WHF
The insinuation by Jeremy, the defence etc was that she killed them after a mental breakdown after suffering with schizophrenia. So not for no reason.
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The insinuation by Jeremy, the defence etc was that she killed them after a mental breakdown after suffering with schizophrenia. So not for no reason.
Agree that the aledged fostering conversation is not a valid reason.
A mental breakdown. Why would she shoot her sleeping children and parents?
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Agree that the aledged fostering conversation is not a valid reason.
A mental breakdown. Why would she shoot her sleeping children and parents?
This is getting a bit daft, when females with PS kill is often involves their children.
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This is getting a bit daft, when females with PS kill is often involves their children.
Seems that Nevill, June & CC made a mistake. Inviting Sheila & the twins to stay at WHF.
She shot everyone while they slept!
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CC's letter to Nevill also says Sheila lived in her own world and was oblivious to everything else.
Says that Sheila never listens to the twins or answers there questions.
The twins were falling rapidly behind at school when living with Sheila. But improved a lot when living with CC.
Sadly a lamb to the slaughter on the 7th August 1985.
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Agree that the aledged fostering conversation is not a valid reason.
A mental breakdown. Why would she shoot her sleeping children and parents?
They tried to portray it a psychotic break, worsening mental health which culminated in this.
Mental health was heavily stigmatised in the 1980s, attitudes were different.
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On paper at least his alternative suspect was not far fetched. She had documented problems and in the initial inquiry the police ( taff in particular) " Bought it"