Problems Rivlin would have had in believing his client:

[Steve_uk]

Dont believe the fostering conversation was heavily weighed on as the reason " shelia lost it "

If it was Bamber would have not suggested " she remained pretty vacant " he would have claimed it riled  her or she expressed herself angrily about it"

I think Nevill might well have been upset that a lot of the work in caring for the twins was falling on his wife. Remember Sheila for the most part lived in London and by the last few months it was Colin who cared mostly for them. I don't think Nevill and June realized the extent of Sheila's condition and how it impacted her daily life.

[ILB]

I think Nevill might well have been upset that a lot of the work in caring for the twins was falling on his wife. Remember Sheila for the most part lived in London and by the last few months it was Colin who cared mostly for them. I don't think Nevill and June realized the extent of Sheila's condition and how it impacted her daily life.

You only have to look at the conversation with Helen Grimster two months prior to see that she was heavily declining.

This is why Jeremy would have thought she would have made a perfect scapegoat. The whole crime rested on Shelia being the scapegoat.

For me, he wouldnt have attempted it if he felt she was completley out of it. He isnt that stupid.

[Steve_uk]

You only have to look at the conversation with Helen Grimster two months prior to see that she was heavily declining.

This is why Jeremy would have thought she would have made a perfect scapegoat. The whole crime rested on Shelia being the scapegoat.

For me, he wouldnt have attempted it if he felt she was completley out of it. He isnt that stupid.

It also gave him a justification in his own warped mind. In that sense it's similar to the David Bain case, where he typed the sentence on the computer: Sorry, you're the only one who deserved to stay.

[Adam]

Bamber's narrative on the night was/is -

There were fostering conversations.

He had left a loaded rifle out after going to shoot rabbits.

Nevill had rang him & said 'please come over, Sheila's gone crazy & she's got the gun'. Before the line went dead.

Sheila was a 'loony' who knew how to use all the weapons & should be locked up.

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The judge said in his summing up, Sheila being non responsive regarding the aledged fostering conversation, means it cannot be used as a motivation for her aledged actions.

This is damaging as the judge is asking the jury to believe Sheila shot her mother, father & sons in bed for no reason.

[Rob_]

Bamber's narrative on the night was/is -

There were fostering conversations.

He had left a loaded rifle out after going to shoot rabbits.

Nevill had rang him & said 'please come over, Sheila's gone crazy & she's got the gun'. Before the line went dead.

Sheila was a 'loony' who knew how to use all the weapons & should be locked up.

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The judge said in his summing up, Sheila being non responsive regarding the aledged fostering conversation, means it cannot be used as a motivation for her aledged actions.

This is damaging as the judge is asking the jury to believe Sheila shot her mother, father & sons in bed for no reason.

Why do you keep posting all this rubbish?

Assuming Sheila was the shooter and that she survived she would not even have been charged with murder. She had PS she did not need a reason to kill.

Have a look at the case of Valdo Calocane he killed three and attempted to kill three others.

[Adam]

Why do you keep posting all this rubbish?

Assuming Sheila was the shooter and that she survived she would not even have been charged with murder. She had PS she did not need a reason to kill.

Have a look at the case of Valdo Calocane he killed three and attempted to kill three others.

The jury will not believe Sheila killed her family while they slept. For no reason.

Nevill and June were heavily financially & emotionally  supporting Sheila. She was staying at WHF on a holiday. Agreed by CC.

The twins were her children.

[Rob_]

The jury will not believe Sheila killed her family while they slept. For no reason.

Nevill and June were heavily financially & emotionally  supporting Sheila. She was staying at WHF on a holiday. Agreed by CC.

The twins were her children.

When women with PS kill it often involves their children, as you know.

No reason needed.

[Adam]

When women with PS kill it often involves their children, as you know.

No reason needed.

The jury are not going to believe that Nevill, June and CC invited Sheila and the twins for a summer holiday at WHF.

Then Sheila killed her mother, father & children while they slept for no reason.

[ILB]

The jury are not going to believe that Nevill, June and CC invited Sheila and the twins for a summer holiday at WHF.

Then Sheila killed her mother, father & children while they slept for no reason.

Bambers train of thought is that he had found a perfect scapegoat in Shelia.

Having weighed up the pros and cons ( which he must have done ) he must have thought it was worth a gamble.

He had a good knowledge of her mental health history and problems, his WS 7.8.85 recalls it in detail. Whilst he may not have understood it as he claims.

[ILB]

For me if my alternative suspect is " out of it with the fairies more or less bed bound and no strength" is not a good alternative suspect and isnt worth a gamble.

[BarefootDanC]

He would find it incredible that Sheila decided to shoot her mother, father & 2 sons while they slept. Because of an aledged fostering conversation hours earlier.

He would not believe Nevill would start phoning his clients AM after being shot 4 times.

He would not believe Sheila would totally overpower a man who had managed to get downstairs & phone his client. 

He knew Sheila could not lift Nevill onto the coal scuttle.

He knew Sheila could not shoot herself with the silencer attached.

He knew Sheila could not put the silencer away after her first shot.

He would not believe Julie would compile a 23 page WS & testify just because they had split up. 

He knew of the hatred and resentment his client had towards his family. And of the caravan break in.

He knew of Sheila's physical and mental limitations and lack of knowledge with weapons.

He knew there was no evidence on Sheila that she had committed the massacre.

He knew it was possible to cycle to/from WHF & a bike had arrived at his clients house 2 days earlier.

He knew it was possible to get in and out of the WHF windows and there was evidence he had done so. 

He knew Sheila's parents and CC did not believe her capable of such a crime. As she was staying at WHF.

Correct. The skill of a barrister (and Rivlin was a highly experiences and very well respected on) is presenting one side of an argument is as plausible as possible.

[Steve_uk]

Bambers train of thought is that he had found a perfect scapegoat in Shelia.

Having weighed up the pros and cons ( which he must have done ) he must have thought it was worth a gamble.

He had a good knowledge of her mental health history and problems, his WS 7.8.85 recalls it in detail. Whilst he may not have understood it as he claims.

He would have observed his sister from the Sunday night onwards. He must have thought the timing of the dastardly scheme was propitious or he wouldn't have gone ahead with it.

[Steve_uk]

For me if my alternative suspect is " out of it with the fairies more or less bed bound and no strength" is not a good alternative suspect and isnt worth a gamble.

But what could the relatives do apart from protest to police? He nearly got away with it.

[Adam]

He was using the 2 extremes -

Sheila would be a lamb to the slaughter for him.

He then had to convince the police the opposite. That she was too strong for everyone inside WHF.

[ILB]

He would have observed his sister from the Sunday night onwards. He must have thought the timing of the dastardly scheme was propitious or he wouldn't have gone ahead with it.

It may have been down to his own frustrations as well. His anger and bitterness may have overrided.

Exhaustion and hatred is a deadly combo. He had worked a 14 hour shift.

If he argued that afternoon in the field with Shelia it may have just simply snapped him.