Jeremy Bamber Forum

JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Curiosity on February 01, 2025, 08:44:PM

Title: Two moderators?
Post by: Curiosity on February 01, 2025, 08:44:PM
Explosive new evidence or just another damp squib failing to ignite -

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mass-murderer-jeremy-bamber-hopes-34596299

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14351015/Serial-killer-Jeremy-Bamber-64-makes-bid-life-sentence-overturned-White-House-Farm-murderer-hopes-new-evidence-prove-innocence.html

I've always thought this contemporaneous (1985) Anglia Press Agency photo shows the Pargeter Anschutz fitted with his P/H moderator being held up by a plain-clothes officer(?) at WHF. The stock isn't damaged where his right hand is holding on to it, unlike the actual murder weapon.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Roch on February 01, 2025, 09:17:PM
Interesting article. Thanks for posting.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: ngb1066 on February 02, 2025, 09:49:AM
Explosive new evidence or just another damp squib failing to ignite -

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mass-murderer-jeremy-bamber-hopes-34596299

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14351015/Serial-killer-Jeremy-Bamber-64-makes-bid-life-sentence-overturned-White-House-Farm-murderer-hopes-new-evidence-prove-innocence.html

I've always thought this contemporaneous (1985) Anglia Press Agency photo shows the Pargeter Anschutz fitted with his P/H moderator being held up by a plain-clothes officer(?) at WHF. The stock isn't damaged where his right hand is holding on to it, unlike the actual murder weapon.

The photo in your post is not of a police officer in the case and does not show the murder weapon.  It is from an article in a French newspaper.
 
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Roch on February 02, 2025, 09:53:AM
The photo in your post is not of a police officer in the case and does not show the murder weapon.  It is from an article in a French newspaper.

I was going to post it was from a french magazine. Didn't someone post it up before with a translation?
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Roch on February 02, 2025, 10:36:AM
Some of wording around blood is confusing in the article.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Curiosity on February 02, 2025, 10:54:AM
The photo in your post is not of a police officer in the case and does not show the murder weapon.  It is from an article in a French newspaper.
It was originally in the English M/C Murder Casebook series no.7, as in the photo below I've just copied, then probably featured in a French translated version.  It's one of series originally taken by the APA at the time of the murders, like the one of an officer/detective retrieving evidence from Nevill's car outside Bourtree cottage.

The white-painted woodwork is reminiscent of that at WHF, maybe of a store room/walk-in cupboard?  Or the small Cup'd in the hallway adjacent to the Bottle Cupboard?

If he isn't a police officer, have you any idea who it might be?
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: David1819 on February 02, 2025, 03:09:PM
The photo in your post is not of a police officer in the case and does not show the murder weapon.  It is from an article in a French newspaper.

It's an Anschutz 525 but you can tell it's not the Bamber rifle because the iron sights are different.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Curiosity on February 02, 2025, 05:48:PM
It's an Anschutz 525 but you can tell it's not the Bamber rifle because the iron sights are different.
The only difference regarding the sight is that the cylindrical front sight hood (1) (which shields the sight from distracting extraneous light) has been removed, so that it doesn't interfere with aiming when a telescopic sight is fitted. When required, it simply slides onto the front sight base (5) which is present in both the Whiddon and APA/MC photos  -
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: snow66! on February 02, 2025, 08:00:PM
Bambers on the front page of the Sunday People too!
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: handymanz on February 03, 2025, 12:34:AM
Why couldn't the prosecution have just dismissed the silencer found by the Police on the day, as having no forensic evidence linking it to the killings, then just go ahead using the silencer retrieved by David Boutflour on August 10 as its evidence?
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Roch on February 03, 2025, 08:05:AM
Why couldn't the prosecution have just dismissed the silencer found by the Police on the day, as having no forensic evidence linking it to the killings, then just go ahead using the silencer retrieved by David Boutflour on August 10 as its evidence?

In the TNY article doesn't Davidson express that Cook was under massive pressure to find evidence?
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: BarefootDanC on February 03, 2025, 08:34:PM
Why couldn't the prosecution have just dismissed the silencer found by the Police on the day, as having no forensic evidence linking it to the killings, then just go ahead using the silencer retrieved by David Boutflour on August 10 as its evidence?

Why do you say that the police found a sound moderator on the day?
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Roch on February 03, 2025, 10:06:PM
Why do you say that the police found a sound moderator on the day?

The key to this is the allegation document from about 10 years ago. It shows that the chain of custody for a single sound moderator is not possible. The sound moderator was in two different places at the same time.

Also why would Stan Jones obtain an exhibit reference of SBJ1 for the silencer found by David Boutflour, if he knew he himself was not the person who found the exhibit? Surely he knew how exhibits protocol worked?
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: handymanz on February 03, 2025, 10:31:PM
Why do you say that the police found a sound moderator on the day?

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mass-murderer-jeremy-bamber-hopes-34596299
Quote
Bamber’s lawyers say they now have photographic proof that a second silencer, which they claim was seized by police on the day of the killings, was also examined by investigators and never disclosed to the defence, which they claim would undermine the safety of the conviction.

Is it common practice for a firearm to have 2 moderators?
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: ILB on February 04, 2025, 08:24:AM
Is 2025 Bambers year?
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: ngb1066 on February 04, 2025, 09:34:AM
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mass-murderer-jeremy-bamber-hopes-34596299
Is it common practice for a firearm to have 2 moderators?

No.  There were two rifles of the same calibre kept at WHF and each had a sound moderator.

Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: ngb1066 on February 04, 2025, 09:37:AM
It was originally in the English M/C Murder Casebook series no.7, as in the photo below I've just copied, then probably featured in a French translated version.  It's one of series originally taken by the APA at the time of the murders, like the one of an officer/detective retrieving evidence from Nevill's car outside Bourtree cottage.

The white-painted woodwork is reminiscent of that at WHF, maybe of a store room/walk-in cupboard?  Or the small Cup'd in the hallway adjacent to the Bottle Cupboard?

If he isn't a police officer, have you any idea who it might be?

That photograph was not taken at WHF and the person in the photo is not connected with the case.  He is probably a journalist.

Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Cambridgecutie on February 04, 2025, 11:14:AM
That photograph was not taken at WHF and the person in the photo is not connected with the case.  He is probably a journalist.

Which probably explains what appears to be an absence of insignia on the 'uniform'.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Cambridgecutie on February 04, 2025, 11:34:AM
Why couldn't the prosecution have just dismissed the silencer found by the Police on the day, as having no forensic evidence linking it to the killings, then just go ahead using the silencer retrieved by David Boutflour on August 10 as its evidence?

What evidence exists the police found a silencer on the day?
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Cambridgecutie on February 04, 2025, 11:37:AM
It was originally in the English M/C Murder Casebook series no.7, as in the photo below I've just copied, then probably featured in a French translated version.  It's one of series originally taken by the APA at the time of the murders,like the one of an officer/detective retrieving evidence from Nevill's car outside Bourtree cottage.

The white-painted woodwork is reminiscent of that at WHF, maybe of a store room/walk-in cupboard?  Or the small Cup'd in the hallway adjacent to the Bottle Cupboard?

If he isn't a police officer, have you any idea who it might be?

I assumed that was a forensic officer from FSS, Huntingdon?
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: ngb1066 on February 04, 2025, 12:08:PM
No this was a photo staged for the article.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Roch on February 04, 2025, 12:35:PM
It should be possible to work out from the allegation document, and statements by police officers and relatives, any windows of opportunity for a different sound moderator to be collected or provided to police. There is a a chain of custody for the sound moderator singular, and it cannot be in two places at once. Therefore there must have been more than one.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: David1819 on February 04, 2025, 12:48:PM
The key to this is the allegation document from about 10 years ago. It shows that the chain of custody for a single sound moderator is not possible. The sound moderator was in two different places at the same time.

Also why would Stan Jones obtain an exhibit reference of SBJ1 for the silencer found by David Boutflour, if he knew he himself was not the person who found the exhibit? Surely he knew how exhibits protocol worked?

No, it does not.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Roch on February 04, 2025, 12:50:PM
No, it does not.

OK we let's at least examine that document in respect of the sound moderator. It's worth going over just for clarity?
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Cambridgecutie on February 04, 2025, 01:02:PM
What evidence exists the police found a silencer on the day?

If officers found a silencer on the day why would it not be added to the list of other exihibits?  Soc officers were at WHF until noon 9th Aug.

Why has no officer mentioned the finding of a silencer between 7th Aug and 9th Aug when WHF was considered a soc?
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Curiosity on February 04, 2025, 01:17:PM
Which probably explains what appears to be an absence of insignia on the 'uniform'.
If he's a plain-clothes detective in Carnaby Street gear, obviously.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Curiosity on February 04, 2025, 01:21:PM
I assumed that was a forensic officer from FSS, Huntingdon?
No, just a middle-aged detective from Essex Police, with what could be an empty whisky bottle box donated by Stan the Man!
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Cambridgecutie on February 04, 2025, 01:43:PM
No, just a middle-aged detective from Essex Police, with what could be an empty whisky bottle box donated by Stan the Man!

Lol!  Well spotted.

The article refers to the blue Citroen as JB's car so we can see it isn't reliable. 

I thought NB would have bought British as people tended to do back in the day. 
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Curiosity on February 04, 2025, 02:00:PM
Lol!  Well spotted.

The article refers to the blue Citroen as JB's car so we can see it isn't reliable. 

I thought NB would have bought British as people tended to do back in the day.
But JB did sequester it to replace his clapped-out Astra, just like he swapped tiny Bourtree for Sheila's luxurious Morshead flat, hence the confusion.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: David1819 on February 04, 2025, 02:35:PM
OK we let's at least examine that document in respect of the sound moderator. It's worth going over just for clarity?

I have gone over this "document" with you several times over the years already. If you have done a CC/Curiosity like your profile picture suggests. I am not wasting my time going over it for a third time.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Roch on February 04, 2025, 02:54:PM
I have gone over this "document" with you several times over the years already. If you have done a CC/Curiosity like your profile picture suggests. I am not wasting my time going over it for a third time.

I haven't got the memory of an elephant David.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: ILB on February 04, 2025, 03:08:PM
But JB did sequester it to replace his clapped-out Astra, just like he swapped tiny Bourtree for Sheila's luxurious Morshead flat, hence the confusion.

Wasn't a clapped out Astra, it was a 1985 model.

He had smashed it the year before. Insurance or bank of Nevill had paid out for a new one. Ironically PC Saxby was in attendance that day.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Cambridgecutie on February 04, 2025, 03:57:PM
I have gone over this "document" with you several times over the years already. If you have done a CC/Curiosity like your profile picture suggests. I am not wasting my time going over it for a third time.

Haha, anyone with better than average command of the English language will see Curiosity's writing skills are superior to mine/CC's but thanks for the compliment  :)

Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Cambridgecutie on February 04, 2025, 07:03:PM
It should be possible to work out from the allegation document,and statements by police officers and relatives, any windows of opportunity for a different sound moderator to be collected or provided to police. There is a a chain of custody for the sound moderator singular, and it cannot be in two places at once. Therefore there must have been more than one.

Isn't this something knocked up by the CT, Bill et al? 
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Cambridgecutie on February 04, 2025, 07:07:PM
Wasn't a clapped out Astra, it was a 1985 model.

He had smashed it the year before. Insurance or bank of Nevill had paid out for a new one. Ironically PC Saxby was in attendance that day.

And a GT no less!   8)



Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Roch on February 04, 2025, 07:27:PM
Isn't this something knocked up by the CT, Bill et al?

I don't think Bill was involved. I can't imagine it being knocked up by Essex Police. Like I have suggested maybe we should go through it. David claims to have dissected it before but I don't think I was using the forum when that took place. Let's go through it?
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Curiosity on February 04, 2025, 08:00:PM
And a GT no less!
Then how come it could only crawl at a snail's pace on the way to WHF in the early hours of 7th.August,'85?  Must have had either a sticky accelerator pedal or a faulty fuel pump.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: David1819 on February 04, 2025, 08:12:PM
The CC/Curiosity single double act is back. Supported by Stella in one hand SpecialBrew in the other  :))
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Cambridgecutie on February 04, 2025, 08:37:PM
Then how come it could only crawl at a snail's pace on the way to WHF in the early hours of 7th.August,'85?  Must have had either a sticky accelerator pedal or a faulty fuel pump.

The driver had been sleeping like a log after a hard day's work on the farm!
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Cambridgecutie on February 04, 2025, 08:46:PM
I don't think Bill was involved. I can't imagine it being knocked up by Essex Police. Like I have suggested maybe we should go through it. David claims to have dissected it before but I don't think I was using the forum when that took place. Let's go through it?

I think I recall AngloLawyer going through it on Injustice Anywhere forum. 

Who's the author?

Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Curiosity on February 04, 2025, 09:20:PM
The CC/Curiosity single double act is back. Supported by Stella in one hand SpecialBrew in the other  :))
Mine's a Typhoo One-cup Special Blend with two teaspoons of sugar, Thanks.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: ILB on February 04, 2025, 10:01:PM
And a GT no less!   8)

Handsome guy back in 85, was a handsome guy in long lartin, birds to pull, image to keep fair enough fair play
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Cambridgecutie on February 04, 2025, 10:28:PM
Handsome guy back in 85, was a handsome guy in long lartin, birds to pull, image to keep fair enough fair play

Not my type mentally or physically.

Would that be sparrows through the bars of his window in his cell?  ;D
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: ILB on February 04, 2025, 11:55:PM
Not my type mentally or physically.

Would that be sparrows through the bars of his window in his cell?  ;D

Genuinely just a handsome guy. Still Is today, still weightlifting.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: ILB on February 04, 2025, 11:57:PM
Not my type mentally or physically.

You must like weak mental men, Jezs mental strength is beyond no other, 40 years still fighting.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: handymanz on February 05, 2025, 01:31:AM
What evidence exists the police found a silencer on the day?

Ask Bamber's lawyers.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Cambridgecutie on February 05, 2025, 07:10:AM
You must like weak mental men, Jezs mental strength is beyond no other, 40 years still fighting.

I don't perceive him how you appear to. 
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Cambridgecutie on February 05, 2025, 07:31:AM
Genuinely just a handsome guy. Still Is today, still weightlifting.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  I don't find him remotely attractive, mentally or physically, back in the day or now.

Will Carling, back in the day, is my type, although he hasn't aged particularly well.  And BBC's Middle East correspondent Hugo Bachega.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Cambridgecutie on February 05, 2025, 07:32:AM
Ask Bamber's lawyers.

Afaik they are not members of the forum.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: BarefootDanC on February 05, 2025, 01:25:PM
Ask Bamber's lawyers.

Bill Robertson and the Campaign Team cite a newspaper article where ACC Simpson supposedly said "a silencer found on the day of the killings is not necessarily suspicious"

whereas other newspapers reported him as saying "early on in the investigation".


But will Bill Robertson and the Campaign Team tell you that !!??
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Roch on February 05, 2025, 01:38:PM
Bill Robertson and the Campaign Team cite a newspaper article where ACC Simpson supposedly said "a silencer found on the day of the killings is not necessarily suspicious"

whereas other newspapers reported him as saying "early on in the investigation".


But will Bill Robertson and the Campaign Team tell you that !!??

The newspaper articles are referenced in the allegation document.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Curiosity on February 05, 2025, 05:27:PM
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  I don't find him remotely attractive, mentally or physically, back in the day or now.

Will Carling, back in the day, is my type, although he hasn't aged particularly well.  And BBC's Middle East correspondent Hugo Bachega.
He's OK for knocking on 60!   I want his beanie -

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/will-carling-the-former-england-captain-looks-on-during-the-news-photo/1370958345?adppopup=true
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Cambridgecutie on February 05, 2025, 06:32:PM
He's OK for knocking on 60!   I want his beanie -

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/will-carling-the-former-england-captain-looks-on-during-the-news-photo/1370958345?adppopup=true

Not a patch on what he was:

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/sport-rugby-union-pic-1995-1995-rugby-union-world-cup-will-news-photo/78983285
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Steve_uk on February 05, 2025, 06:50:PM
Not a patch on what he was:

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/sport-rugby-union-pic-1995-1995-rugby-union-world-cup-will-news-photo/78983285
We all have to get old, you know..
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Cambridgecutie on February 05, 2025, 07:01:PM
We all have to get old, you know..

True  :'(  But he has let himself go much the same way Wayne Rooney has. 
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: ILB on February 05, 2025, 07:59:PM
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  I don't find him remotely attractive, mentally or physically, back in the day or now.


Totally agree, although I am in the minority of being able to make any woman be attracted me to me. A northern guy in a baseball cap with a gruff voice is all you need
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: ILB on February 06, 2025, 07:43:AM
The driver had been sleeping like a log after a hard day's work on the farm!

All jokes aside, gulity or Innocent. Unless he grabbed a few hours when he finished work. He must have been genuinely knackered, he had worked a 14 hour day.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Curiosity on February 06, 2025, 08:06:AM
Adrenaline can work wonders especially when you see nearly half a million smackers reward for a modicum of effort.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Cambridgecutie on February 06, 2025, 08:17:AM
All jokes aside, gulity or Innocent. Unless he grabbed a few hours when he finished work. He must have been genuinely knackered, he had worked a 14 hour day.

You are forgetting he regularly drove to London mid-week to stay overnight with JM and they had sex all night long!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Jane on February 06, 2025, 10:05:AM
You are forgetting he regularly drove to London mid-week to stay overnight with JM and they had sex all night long!!!!!!!!!!


My partner's dog would run miles to 'pay court' to his latest quest, and, having done the deed, arrive home with his tail wagging and looking very pleased with himself. Sex, unlike actual hard work, never seems to phase!!
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: ILB on February 06, 2025, 11:36:AM

My partner's dog would run miles to 'pay court' to his latest quest, and, having done the deed, arrive home with his tail wagging and looking very pleased with himself. Sex, unlike actual hard work, never seems to phase!!

" never used to "  ;D
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Jane on February 06, 2025, 11:42:AM
" never used to "  ;D


Comes to us all, I'm afraid  :'(.........  ;D
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Adam on February 10, 2025, 03:17:PM
Still not sure what the CT are saying.

Are they saying the police took one silencer away & left one inside WHF before the relatives entered the house?

Strange thing for the police to do.

But nice of the CT to circulate a photo of a box with a silencer inside to the media.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Adam on February 10, 2025, 03:30:PM
If the CT are saying the prosecution did not mention there was another silencer in the gun cupboard with nothing on, not sure why that would have influenced the jury.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Rob_ on February 10, 2025, 08:11:PM
If the CT are saying the prosecution did not mention there was another silencer in the gun cupboard with nothing on, not sure why that would have influenced the jury.

The provenance and history of how the silencer was found and handled is bizarre to say the least, if it now turns out there were two and the jury were not told, to me it completely trashes the case.

What has always puzzled me is why Millar said it was sticky when found? Fingerprint testing?
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Adam on February 10, 2025, 08:53:PM
The provenance and history of how the silencer was found and handled is bizarre to say the least, if it now turns out there were two and the jury were not told, to me it completely trashes the case.

What has always puzzled me is why Millar said it was sticky when found? Fingerprint testing?

Would you not expect a gun cupboard to have more than one silencer?
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: David1819 on February 10, 2025, 09:00:PM
The provenance and history of how the silencer was found and handled is bizarre to say the least, if it now turns out there were two and the jury were not told, to me it completely trashes the case.

What has always puzzled me is why Millar said it was sticky when found? Fingerprint testing?

It was David Boutflour who said that, not Miller.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Cambridgecutie on February 10, 2025, 09:06:PM
The provenance and history of how the silencer was found and handled is bizarre to say the least, if it now turns out there were two and the jury were not told, to me it completely trashes the case.

What has always puzzled me is why Millar said it was sticky when found? Fingerprint testing?

But you're not the CCRC/CoA.

Rivlin had the opportunity to challenge the chain of custody.  He chose not to. 

There were numerous bibles within the farmhouse but only one is relevant to the case.

I understand there were 2 or 3 identical silencers hanging around but only one is relevant to the case.

You're not thinking it through Rob.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: BarefootDanC on February 10, 2025, 09:38:PM
But you're not the CCRC/CoA.

Rivlin had the opportunity to challenge the chain of custody.  He chose not to. 

There were numerous bibles within the farmhouse but only one is relevant to the case.

I understand there were 2 or 3 identical silencers hanging around but only one is relevant to the case.

You're not thinking it through Rob.

You are correct.

What's more, the argument seems to be that they needed to use 2 sound moderators in order to fabricate the evidence. One sound moderator had blood planted in it and the other one had red paint added to the end. Allegedly, "Glynis Howard didn't see red paint on the end"
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Adam on February 11, 2025, 01:55:PM
If the jury were made aware that the gun cupboard had a second moderator, that would not influence them.

Only one was used on the night.

But appreciate the CT have to keep the moderator in the media.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Roch on February 11, 2025, 03:33:PM
If the jury were made aware that the gun cupboard had a second moderator, that would not influence them.

Only one was used on the night.

But appreciate the CT have to keep the moderator in the media.

Police have said only one. If two or more, police will have lied.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Adam on February 11, 2025, 05:16:PM
Police have said only one. If two or more, police will have lied.

Only one what. Moderator used or moderator at WHF?

When did they say this?
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Roch on February 11, 2025, 06:46:PM
Only one what. Moderator used or moderator at WHF?

When did they say this?

Moderator used / tested forensically. Ron Cook said it on television in 2012.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Adam on February 11, 2025, 06:47:PM
Moderator used / tested forensically. Ron Cook said it on television in 2012.

They would only test one moderator as only one had the blood & paint on.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Rob_ on February 11, 2025, 07:15:PM
It was David Boutflour who said that, not Miller.

I know David, but in a interview on TV Millar also said this.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Rob_ on February 11, 2025, 07:21:PM
But you're not the CCRC/CoA.

Rivlin had the opportunity to challenge the chain of custody.  He chose not to. 

There were numerous bibles within the farmhouse but only one is relevant to the case.

I understand there were 2 or 3 identical silencers hanging around but only one is relevant to the case.

You're not thinking it through Rob.

If you study all the documents relating to the rifle / moderator dimensions, there looks to be two silencers.

Unless like all the clocks that night all the tape measures in Essex were also faulty.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Rob_ on February 11, 2025, 07:26:PM
Would you not expect a gun cupboard to have more than one silencer?

I am not talking about the gun cupboard but the number of silencers examined by the lab/police.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Adam on February 11, 2025, 10:02:PM
I am not talking about the gun cupboard but the number of silencers examined by the lab/police.

The experts at Huntingdon would examine the moderator the relatives handed in. That had paint & blood on.

The other moderators would not be examined 
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: BarefootDanC on February 11, 2025, 10:24:PM
I am not talking about the gun cupboard but the number of silencers examined by the lab/police.

Why would the police have other sound moderators examined as they would be clean? What would forensics be looking for?
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: ILB on February 11, 2025, 10:29:PM
Why would the police have other sound moderators examined as they would be clean? What would forensics be looking for?

I must admit I don't get the multiple moderator ground.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Bubo bubo on February 11, 2025, 11:39:PM
I must admit I don't get the multiple moderator ground.
The original SM found on the day (SM1) belonged to AP. They could not use this at trial as JB would know it was not his. They had to make a swap at some point. They created SM2 as a doppelganger using JB's (SM2) read my posts.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Cambridgecutie on February 12, 2025, 08:00:AM
The original SM found on the day (SM1) belonged to AP. They could not use this at trial as JB would know it was not his. They had to make a swap at some point. They created SM2 as a doppelganger using JB's (SM2) read my posts.

Please provide a source/evidence for your assertion the police "found on the day" (assume from this you mean 7th Aug) a silencer belonging to AP.  Even if they did why would they add this to the exhibits list and photograph it?

What reason(s) existed for SoC officers not to add any relevant exhibits to exhibits lists and take soc images of such when WHF was considered a SoC ie from 7th Aug to 9th Aug?

Numerous firearms and related paraphernalia remained in the farmhouse because they were not relevant.  I've recently given the analogy of the bibles.  Ie numerous bibles were within the farmhouse but only one was relevant to the SoC.  Numerous firearms were within the farmhouse but only one was relevant to the SoC.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: ILB on February 12, 2025, 10:39:AM
The original SM found on the day (SM1) belonged to AP. They could not use this at trial as JB would know it was not his. They had to make a swap at some point. They created SM2 as a doppelganger using JB's (SM2) read my posts.

But how does that negate the blood evidence?
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Bubo bubo on February 12, 2025, 11:42:AM
But how does that negate the blood evidence?

I agree with CC the blood/flake was 'Cooked up' by the FSS. Read my posts on the flake. It could have been constructed from blood and tissue presented to MDF by Taylor when he had finished his examinations around PV20. Which was switched because the Lans and grooves did not match those of the Anschutz. I have set this out in my posts.

Suggest you use the search facility. Search flake by Bubobubo.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Bubo bubo on February 12, 2025, 01:19:PM
I agree with CC the blood/flake was 'Cooked up' by the FSS. Read my posts on the flake. It could have been constructed from blood and tissue presented to MDF by Taylor when he had finished his examinations around PV20. Which was switched because the Lans and grooves did not match those of the Anschutz. I have set this out in my posts.

Suggest you use the search facility. Search flake by Bubobubo.
You may find these posts add to my argument.

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10740.msg505360.html#msg505360

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,12350.msg571814.html#msg571814
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Bubo bubo on February 12, 2025, 01:25:PM
You may find these posts add to my argument.

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10740.msg505360.html#msg505360

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,12350.msg571814.html#msg571814

This is also explains my point

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10740.msg495095.html#msg495095
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Cambridgecutie on February 12, 2025, 05:39:PM
I agree with CC the blood/flake was 'Cooked up' by the FSS. Read my posts on the flake. It could have been constructed from blood and tissue presented to MDF by Taylor when he had finished his examinations around PV20. Which was switched because the Lans and grooves did not match those of the Anschutz. I have set this out in my posts.

Suggest you use the search facility. Search flake by Bubobubo.

I am sorry but I doubt many have the time or inclination to read your convoluted theories.  None of which stand up to scrutiny. 

No one has ever mentioned any tissue in or on the silencer.  No idea who Taylor is?  Anyone?

I know for a fact MDF 'misled' the jury over one aspect of the case so there is no reason to think he wasn't capable of 'misleading' over other aspects. 

There was no need for anyone to plant blood inside the silencer to generate a set of test results.  The LCN DNA tests support this but I am open-minded.  Given LCN DNA is capable of generating a result from samples as small as a millionth the size of a grain of salt the argument that SC's DNA could not be conclusively found in the silencer because all the blood was swabbed away in 1985/6 doesn't really stand up.

The prosecution also claim that JB placed the silencer on SC's person before he removed it.  Therefore you would expect other biological material to transfer by way of sweat and skin cells which would transfer to the outside and contaminate the ends and inside when handled by FSS.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Adam on February 12, 2025, 06:49:PM
The moderator has been a dead duck for decades.

There has been nothing left to test or it has been disposed of.

But appreciate the CT have to keep it in the media. Resulting the recent photo of a box with a silencer in & 'two moderators' quote.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Bubo bubo on February 12, 2025, 07:41:PM
I am sorry but I doubt many have the time or inclination to read your convoluted theories.  None of which stand up to scrutiny. 

No one has ever mentioned any tissue in or on the silencer.  No idea who Taylor is?  Anyone?

I know for a fact MDF 'misled' the jury over one aspect of the case so there is no reason to think he wasn't capable of 'misleading' over other aspects. 

There was no need for anyone to plant blood inside the silencer to generate a set of test results.  The LCN DNA tests support this but I am open-minded.  Given LCN DNA is capable of generating a result from samples as small as a millionth the size of a grain of salt the argument that SC's DNA could not be conclusively found in the silencer because all the blood was swabbed away in 1985/6 doesn't really stand up.

The prosecution also claim that JB placed the silencer on SC's person before he removed it.  Therefore you would expect other biological material to transfer by way of sweat and skin cells which would transfer to the outside and contaminate the ends and inside when handled by FSS.

I thought you knew the case. Taylor passed the bullet (PV20 )to MDF together with his findings. The tissue could have been used when creating a flake.

 
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: ILB on February 12, 2025, 08:12:PM
The moderator has been a dead duck for decades.

There has been nothing left to test or it has been disposed of.

But appreciate the CT have to keep it in the media. Resulting the recent photo of a box with a silencer in & 'two moderators' quote.

I can't see how it can overturn the conviction. I have to agree with you.

Doesn't matter if they found 30 moderators, all that matters is the one with the blood of the other potential suspect.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Bubo bubo on February 12, 2025, 08:19:PM
I thought you knew the case. Taylor passed the bullet (PV20 )to MDF together with his findings. The tissue could have been used when creating a flake.

Notice that the dismissal of the lans and grounds issue is signed off by JH not MDF. it is not his signature.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Cambridgecutie on February 12, 2025, 08:53:PM
I thought you knew the case. Taylor passed the bullet (PV20 )to MDF together with his findings. The tissue could have been used when creating a flake.

I've no idea what you are talking about.  No idea who Taylor was?  There's no evidence of any tissue being drawn back into the silencer.  Just blood supposedly!
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Cambridgecutie on February 12, 2025, 08:54:PM
Notice that the dismissal of the lans and grounds issue is signed off by JH not MDF. it is not his signature.

No idea what you're talking about? 
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Cambridgecutie on February 12, 2025, 08:58:PM
I can't see how it can overturn the conviction. I have to agree with you.

Doesn't matter if they found 30 moderators, all that matters is the one with the blood of the other potential suspect.

There are few things that are 100% about this case.  But one thing that's 100% is that unless the blood and the silencer, by way of the ballistics/drawback, can be undermined in a very significant way Bamber's case will not even get past the CCRC. 
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Adam on February 12, 2025, 09:13:PM
There are few things that are 100% about this case.  But one thing that's 100% is that unless the blood and the silencer, by way of the ballistics/drawback, can be undermined in a very significant way Bamber's case will not even get past the CCRC.

Maybe the CT have sent the photo of the box with a silencer inside to the CCRC.

That should do it.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: ILB on February 12, 2025, 09:44:PM
Maybe the CT have sent the photo of the box with a silencer inside to the CCRC.

That should do it.

His determination whilst sat in his concrete box night after night for almost 40 years has never wavered.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: ILB on February 12, 2025, 09:45:PM
There are few things that are 100% about this case.  But one thing that's 100% is that unless the blood and the silencer, by way of the ballistics/drawback, can be undermined in a very significant way Bamber's case will not even get past the CCRC.

Thirty seconds under a tap.

He must kick himself.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Adam on February 12, 2025, 09:57:PM
His determination whilst sat in his concrete box night after night for almost 40 years has never wavered.

Agree with that. Determined on the 7th August 1985 & ever since.

Although was too laid back in the first month after the massacre.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: ILB on February 12, 2025, 10:13:PM
Agree with that. Determined on the 7th August 1985 & ever since.

Although was too laid back in the first month after the massacre.

Relatives would have never stopped.

Could have faced charges years down the line. Would have lived under the cloud of suspicion.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Curiosity on February 12, 2025, 10:21:PM
Thirty seconds under a tap.

He must kick himself.
"Sticky, very sticky" according to DB. Was it the result of a rushed cleanse with neat washing-up liquid, followed by a botched wipe over failing to remove all traces when finished?  Or something else?  Boutflour junior seemed flummoxed as to what it was, a sticky moderator not being part of his armoury.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: ILB on February 12, 2025, 10:38:PM
"Sticky, very sticky" according to DB. Was it the result of a rushed cleanse with neat washing-up liquid, followed by a botched wipe over failing to remove all traces when finished?  Or something else?  Boutflour junior seemed flummoxed as to what it was, a sticky moderator not being part of his armoury.

Always seen DB as a bit of an enigma to be honest.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Cambridgecutie on February 13, 2025, 08:06:AM
His determination whilst sat in his concrete box night after night for almost 40 years has never wavered.

You have to wonder why he's so ineffective.
Title: Re: Two moderators?
Post by: Cambridgecutie on February 13, 2025, 08:15:AM
"Sticky, very sticky" according to DB. Was it the result of a rushed cleanse with neat washing-up liquid, followed by a botched wipe over failing to remove all traces when finished?  Or something else?  Boutflour junior seemed flummoxed as to what it was, a sticky moderator not being part of his armoury.

This was said in a docu/drama years later.  No mention of it being "sticky" at trial.  At trial he said the first thing he noticed was that some of the coating, referred to as blue, had been knocked off.