Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Cambridgecutie on October 10, 2024, 10:56:AM
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The above is not an exact science as the casings can ricochet and get kicked about but enough were fired to see patterns especially in what was referred to as the main bedroom/NB's and June's bedroom.
The totality of the soc evidence: bloodstains, casings, distance of shots, trajectories and wound tracks does not support the prosecution case that JB entered the main bedroom and opened fire on his prone parents in bed.
It supports SC standing at the bottom of the bed, June's side, opening fire on a prone June. NB coming upstairs from downstairs, with SC turning some 30/35 degrees to the right and inflicting the facial shots to NB as he was standing on the stairs immediately preceding the entrance to the main bedroom.
If you consider the casing layout diagram for the twin's room, bearing in mind the ejection port ejects to the right and forward, it shows the casings in areas you would expect. If you do the same for the main bedroom it does not show casings in areas you would expect to see them based on the prosecution case. It shows casings in areas you would expect to see them based on the totality of the soc evidence as described above.
Curiosity will say NB disturbed the casings by throwing back the duvet. But this is not what the soc image portrays. It portrays NB leaving the bed unhastily probably bearing in mind a sleeping June. It is as though he slid out of bed rather than jumped out throwing the duvet over June's side.
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Image of main bedroom:
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The above is not an exact science as the casings can ricochet and get kicked about but enough were fired to see patterns especially in what was referred to as the main bedroom/NB's and June's bedroom.
The totality of the soc evidence: bloodstains, casings, distance of shots, trajectories and wound tracks does not support the prosecution case that JB entered the main bedroom and opened fire on his prone parents in bed.
It supports SC standing at the bottom of the bed, June's side, opening fire on a prone June. NB coming upstairs from downstairs, with SC turning some 30/35 degrees to the right and inflicting the facial shots to NB as he was standing on the stairs immediately preceding the entrance to the main bedroom.
If you consider the casing layout diagram for the twin's room, bearing in mind the ejection port ejects to the right and forward, it shows the casings in areas you would expect. If you do the same for the main bedroom it does not show casings in areas you would expect to see them based on the prosecution case. It shows casings in areas you would expect to see them based on the totality of the soc evidence as described above.
Curiosity will say NB disturbed the casings by throwing back the duvet. But this is not what the soc image portrays. It portrays NB leaving the bed unhastily probably bearing in mind a sleeping June. It is as though he slid out of bed rather than jumped out throwing the duvet over June's side.
The casings for Sheila wasn't in this place in the photo when the TFG entered and when TAFF did his quick assesment, they wasn't visible to anyone, they were underneath Sheila, and without checking covered by her head/hair or in this region. I don't trust the diagram's now, Cook even had to go back the next day and retrieve some casings when he found out at the Autopsy that there was 25 shots fired, this was essex police at their finest.
Taff calling a murder suicide and walking away, Soco just treat it that way, I know it's not right and i'm not sticking up for anyone, but the senior investigating officers were very PERFUNCTORY and this fed through the ranks.
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The casings for Sheila wasn't in this place in the photo when the TFG entered and when TAFF did his quick assesment, they wasn't visible to anyone, they were underneath Sheila, and without checking covered by her head/hair or in this region. I don't trust the diagram's now, Cook even had to go back the next day and retrieve some casings when he found out at the Autopsy that there was 25 shots fired, this was essex police at their finest.
Taff calling a murder suicide and walking away, Soco just treat it that way, I know it's not right and i'm not sticking up for anyone, but the senior investigating officers were very PERFUNCTORY and this fed through the ranks.
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Two points HB. Firstly the way a Crime Scene is interpreted is critical. In an incident such as WHF where all the occupants were killed, the positioning of items used helps to working out what 'MAY' have happened. Primarily this is done by examining the placing of bullets and more importantly their casings.
It is possible by such positioning to manipulate the story to be told. Given the manipulation of and the withholding of documentation in this case I do not trust the findings in relation to bullets and casings. You yourself point out that SC was on top of a casing!!!?? This being the case all scenarios are to be approached with caution. Even the police cannot say with any degree of certainty what actually happened at what time and where. Only the victims knew.
Secondly you are being hard on Taff. He left the scene with the SIO, Harris to go to a meeting with the GPO. He was under orders. There were other detectives around and about and they had all been briefed. They would have been contactable by radio if required.
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Didn't Taff do the only thing he could do to confirm murder suicide before he left?
ie, he checked all doors and windows were secured!= murder suicide!
It wasn't Taffs fault that the relatives made up a cock and bull story about the kitchen window!
A story that holds absolutely no weight! Where are the photos showing the bottom latch was not fixed?
At the very very least a video should have been shown to the jury of how JB could have exited the kitchen window and then secured it properly to fool Taff!
The whole case actually rests on JBs ability to enter,and then exit the WHF without leaving a trace!
Was this proven in any way? Was it Barlow or someone who said the side latch could be fixed by slamming shut the window but not the bottom peg?
Where is the photos of the kitchen window? All the police have to do is release a photo showing the bottom latch unfixed!
Why did Taff say all windows were latched and secure? He even went outside to check the pantry window with the mesh on it!
Nah! Taff did his job allright,what more could he do? After checking that the house had been secured from inside,it was up to pathologists to rule out any foul play,which they did!
Alas,then the shenanigans began!
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Didn't Taff do the only thing he could do to confirm murder suicide before he left?
ie, he checked all doors and windows were secured!= murder suicide!
It wasn't Taffs fault that the relatives made up a cock and bull story about the kitchen window!
A story that holds absolutely no weight! Where are the photos showing the bottom latch was not fixed?
At the very very least a video should have been shown to the jury of how JB could have exited the kitchen window and then secured it properly to fool Taff!
The whole case actually rests on JBs ability to enter,and then exit the WHF without leaving a trace!
Was this proven in any way? Was it Barlow or someone who said the side latch could be fixed by slamming shut the window but not the bottom peg?
Where is the photos of the kitchen window? All the police have to do is release a photo showing the bottom latch unfixed!
Why did Taff say all windows were latched and secure? He even went outside to check the pantry window with the mesh on it!
Nah! Taff did his job allright,what more could he do? After checking that the house had been secured from inside,it was up to pathologists to rule out any foul play,which they did!
Alas,then the shenanigans began!
It's unlikely he did a fraction of what you claim. He had places to go and people to see -it may have been his day off?- so he must have been delighted to learn that JB had more or less solved the case without requiring much input from him.
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It's unlikely he did a fraction of what you claim. He had places to go and people to see -it may have been his day off?- so he must have been delighted to learn that JB had more or less solved the case without requiring much input from him.
Well,its what Taff said in his statement anyway Jane!
Besides there should be photographic evidence, where is it?
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Well,its what Taff said in his statement anyway Jane!
Besides there should be photographic evidence, where is it?
It may well have been "what Taff said in his statement", but as most other statement givers have been accused of some sort of 'modification of truth', why should Taff's not be questioned? May explain the lack of photographic evidence?
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Two points HB. Firstly the way a Crime Scene is interpreted is critical. In an incident such as WHF where all the occupants were killed, the positioning of items used helps to working out what 'MAY' have happened. Primarily this is done by examining the placing of bullets and more importantly their casings.
It is possible by such positioning to manipulate the story to be told. Given the manipulation of and the withholding of documentation in this case I do not trust the findings in relation to bullets and casings. You yourself point out that SC was on top of a casing!!!?? This being the case all scenarios are to be approached with caution. Even the police cannot say with any degree of certainty what actually happened at what time and where. Only the victims knew.
Secondly you are being hard on Taff. He left the scene with the SIO, Harris to go to a meeting with the GPO. He was under orders. There were other detectives around and about and they had all been briefed. They would have been contactable by radio if required.
I think your misinterpretation of what I mean about the Casing Bubo, I know full well how important the crime scene is, what I’m saying, I’ve come under the impression due to how the investigation went, that the casings cannot now be trusted entirely, the critical ones around Sheila wasn’t how they were originally foiund by the raid team, there wasn’t one either side of Sheila’s body as per the picture, they were actually out of view and underneath Sheila, I will post the evidence tomorrow, and TAFF was aware of this.
My reasoning about TAFF, I think is justified, he was the lead detective, he called the shots regarding, no need for a full fingerprint search, no need for pathologist , no need for a search of the house etc., why do you think they removed him from the case? He got the brunt of it at the press conference after the Court Case
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It may well have been "what Taff said in his statement", but as most other statement givers have been accused of some sort of 'modification of truth', why should Taff's not be questioned? May explain the lack of photographic evidence?
Do you mean no pictures of the windows may have been taken Jane?
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I think your misinterpretation of what I mean about the Casing ILB, I know full well how important the crime scene is, what I’m saying, I’ve come under the impression due to how the investigation went, that the casings cannot now be trusted entirely, the critical ones around Sheila wasn’t how they were originally foiund by the raid team, there wasn’t one either side of Sheila’s body as per the picture, they were actually out of view and underneath Sheila, I will post the evidence tomorrow, and TAFF was aware of this.
My reasoning about TAFF, I think is justified, he was the lead detective, he called the shots regarding, no need for a full fingerprint search, no need for pathologist , no need for a search of the house etc., why do you think they removed him from the case? He got the brunt of it at the press conference after the Court Case
This is the point that Woodcock who was showing Taffa round make's the point about the casings, they wasn't in the position as per the picture show's around Sheila, then look how Taff makes it know it was a murder suicide, that's him calling the shots at such an early stage and probably been on site half hour? woodcock never saw him again after 9.30am
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In the last link, woodcock goes on to say, they found the cases when they moved the Body of Sheila, they were actually lying where the Head had been? Now that could open up new theories as to how Sheila's body was positioned when she was either shot or shot herself? I never knew about this, and that's why i said i don't trust the diagrams now?
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I think your misinterpretation of what I mean about the Casing ILB, I know full well how important the crime scene is, what I’m saying, I’ve come under the impression due to how the investigation went, that the casings cannot now be trusted entirely, the critical ones around Sheila wasn’t how they were originally foiund by the raid team, there wasn’t one either side of Sheila’s body as per the picture, they were actually out of view and underneath Sheila, I will post the evidence tomorrow, and TAFF was aware of this.
My reasoning about TAFF, I think is justified, he was the lead detective, he called the shots regarding, no need for a full fingerprint search, no need for pathologist , no need for a search of the house etc., why do you think they removed him from the case? He got the brunt of it at the press conference after the Court Case
Are you OK HB. Harris was the SIO at this stage not Taff. How could he get the brunt of it at the press conference? He died before the trial. Are you saying the police blamed their deceased and decorated colleague?
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Are you OK HB. Harris was the SIO at this stage not Taff. How could he get the brunt of it at the press conference? He died before the trial. Are you saying the police blamed their deceased and decorated colleague?
Hi Bubo, yes i'm fine thank you, hope your still doing plenty of walking, Anyway Taff was the senior investigating Officer, have a read at the press conference that took place after the Court case, and no i'm not saying that the Police are blaming their deceased and decorated colleague? Where did you pull that one from, Stone did the opposite and defended him? Taff was removed from the case, and Stone had to spend half the Press conferance defending TAFF, so no they did not throw him under the Bus, but if you like we will throw HARRIS and GIBBONS into it with TAFF and under the Bus
Anyway, have a read yourself and see who you think the Press are talking about and Stone is having to defend, of Course other senior Police officers were shit, and we can throw all the Senior OFFICERS into the PERFUNCTORY, like i did say Senior OFFICERS.
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And then take into account, TAFF who has had a quick walk through of the Murder scene, Woodcock is escorting him, they then get to Sheila, and Woodcock points out the things don't seem right to him.........There isn't any Bullet casings visible..........there's two shot's to Sheila, sheila is EVER SO Clean. "OH it looks like a murder suicide to me" Was his reply?
You praise him all you want Bubo, you and Bambers Supporters, it's no skin of my nose, i say it as it is, and TAFF could be the reason why Bamber is locked up and has been for the Last 40 years..............he never ordered Pathology in, yet even though Woodcock is trying to tell him it's not what it seems, two shots under the chin, an ever so clean assasin, no bullet casings visible...........a good detective who was in charge of the investigation and crime scene, would have ordered, a Patholigist in and ballistics, he would have orderd a full search of the house and a full fingerprint examination, instead he did the complete opposite to what was required.
Then think about handing the keys back to the Family, the family would not have got their hands on the silencer if the Police had done their job in the first place and done a full house search, again ordered not to by TAFF
Taff instructed arrangements for a post Mortem later that Day, meaning, the Bodies were going to the morgue and removed from the crime scene, it was over as far as TAFF was concerened, MURDER SUICIDE.
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Ahd then Bubo, read the Last Paragraph, who is calling the shots here? This is the reason Officers did not find the Silencer, they never searched the Guncupboard and it could be why Bamber has been locked up for 40 years, because it allowed the relatives to get their hands on it.
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It didn't matter who ever went to TAFF and raised their concerns, SJ, WOODCOCK, MILLER, BARLOW, CLARK they all got waved away from the Uncompetent senior crime investigating Officer.
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The casings for Sheila wasn't in this place in the photo when the TFG entered and when TAFF did his quick assesment, they wasn't visible to anyone, they were underneath Sheila, and without checking covered by her head/hair or in this region. I don't trust the diagram's now, Cook even had to go back the next day and retrieve some casings when he found out at the Autopsy that there was 25 shots fired, this was essex police at their finest.
Taff calling a murder suicide and walking away, Soco just treat it that way, I know it's not right and i'm not sticking up for anyone, but the senior investigating officers were very PERFUNCTORY and this fed through the ranks.
The casings around SC are where they would be expected. There's nothing contentious about them afaik.
The diagram is reliable because each casing was photographed and gone through in some detail at trial by way of DC Hammersley's trial testimony.
Nothing to do with DCI Jones. The SOCO team captured all the relevant evidence by way of photographs and physical exhibits.
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The casings around SC are where they would be expected. There's nothing contentious about them afaik.
The diagram is reliable because each casing was photographed and gone through in some detail at trial by way of DC Hammersley's trial testimony.
Nothing to do with DCI Jones. The SOCO team captured all the relevant evidence by way of photographs and physical exhibits.
Read what Woodcock say's about the casings, you wasn't there and have no idea where the casings were first reported, your going on a drawaing that''s all. Why would Woodcock make up such claim? If Woodcock is making such things up, there are Plenty of senior officers who could call him a liar.
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Two points HB. Firstly the way a Crime Scene is interpreted is critical. In an incident such as WHF where all the occupants were killed, the positioning of items used helps to working out what 'MAY' have happened. Primarily this is done by examining the placing of bullets and more importantly their casings.
It is possible by such positioning to manipulate the story to be told. Given the manipulation of and the withholding of documentation in this case I do not trust the findings in relation to bullets and casings. You yourself point out that SC was on top of a casing!!!?? This being the case all scenarios are to be approached with caution. Even the police cannot say with any degree of certainty what actually happened at what time and where. Only the victims knew.
Secondly you are being hard on Taff. He left the scene with the SIO, Harris to go to a meeting with the GPO. He was under orders. There were other detectives around and about and they had all been briefed. They would have been contactable by radio if required.
I thought it wouldn't be long before you popped up with a conspiracy theory.
The casings are a reliable source of untapped data as most were photographed in-situ on the day of the murders and certainly before close of play on 9th when the soc was released back to JB.
There's no evidence the police or judiciary were trained in soc reconstruction at the time. Hence when Lawson asked Fletcher at trial if anyone was shot outside the bedroom upstairs he replied no. Today would be very different. It would all be mapped out in 3d computer graphics. But much of the data has been preserved so the CCRC could order the opening up of WHF to take room measurements.
For SoC:
Blood stains on flooring - available/images
Location of casings - available/images
Distance of shots - available from pm/forensic data
Trajectories - available from pm data
Wound tracks - available from pm data
Victims dimensions - available from pm data
Layout and size of rooms - available from soc images and WHF
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Read what Woodcock say's about the casings, you wasn't there and have no idea where the casings were first reported, your going on a drawaing that''s all. Why would Woodcock make up such claim? If Woodcock is making such things up, there are Plenty of senior officers who could call him a liar.
It does not matter. What is important is what the court at trial was told. And a completely different narrative can now be argued.
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I thought it wouldn't be long before you popped up with a conspiracy theory.
The casings are a reliable source of untapped data as most were photographed in-situ on the day of the murders and certainly before close of play on 9th when the soc was released back to JB.
There's no evidence the police or judiciary were trained in soc reconstruction at the time. Hence when Lawson asked Fletcher at trial if anyone was shot outside the bedroom upstairs he replied no. Today would be very different. It would all be mapped out in 3d computer graphics. But much of the data has been preserved so the CCRC could order the opening up of WHF to take room measurements.
For SoC:
Blood stains on flooring - available/images
Location of casings - available/images
Distance of shots - available from pm/forensic data
Trajectories - available from pm data
Wound tracks - available from pm data
Victims dimensions - available from pm data
Layout and size of rooms - available from soc images and WHF
Don't be mean Cutie, Bubo raised some good points, let's look at your Conspiracy theories, SJ climbed through the Window and Planted his Own Blood on the silencer to be used as evidence against someone else.
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Nevill, June, Daniel and Nicholas recieved 19 shots in or by there beds. This is not surprising as it was around 2am.
Nevill was chased or followed Bamber downstairs. He received 4 shots in the kitchen after Bamber's attack with the rifle.
Sheila was shot twice in the main bedroom after walking there herself or being lead there.
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Are you OK HB. Harris was the SIO at this stage not Taff. How could he get the brunt of it at the press conference? He died before the trial. Are you saying the police blamed their deceased and decorated colleague?
Det Sup Kenneally took the brunt of the criticism in the Dickinson report.
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Det Sup Kenneally took the brunt of the criticism in the Dickinson report.
Naughty Cutie add the rest.
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I find that bit intersting...............failure to update senior officers
I do part blame Miller, he was the one who releaed the bodies, even though the silencer had been found, TAFF was on a Course for two or three Day's about PACE.
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Det Sup Kenneally took the brunt of the criticism in the Dickinson report.
Doesn't matter what you say Cutie, TAFF was the CONDUCTOR and the others Played to his Music, all except the the Remarkable Mr Jone's [Stan]
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Don't be mean Cutie, Bubo raised some good points, let's look at your Conspiracy theories, SJ climbed through the Window and Planted his Own Blood on the silencer to be used as evidence against someone else.
My belief that DS Jones contaminated the OUTSIDE of the silencer does not meet the definition of a conspiracy.
The case is very simple. All agreed it was murder/sucide except DS Jones. He allowed the relatives to influence him and seized the moment when he contaminated the OUTSIDE of the silencer. This set in motion a chain of events namely JM's testimony and a set of test results from the lab which secured Bamber's conviction.
Bamber has been behind bars for nearly 40 years because in the absense of family he has had to rely on others do his bidding who by and large have been absolutely useless both lay and professional. When you're in Bamber's position you need the equivalent of the SAS climbing Mount Everest. He has worse than Dad's Army incapable of climbing an ant hill!
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My belief that DS Jones contaminated the OUTSIDE of the silencer does not meet the definition of a conspiracy.
The case is very simple. All agreed it was murder/sucide except DS Jones. He allowed the relatives to influence him and seized the moment when he contaminated the OUTSIDE of the silencer. This set in motion a chain of events namely JM's testimony and a set of test results from the lab which secured Bamber's conviction.
Bamber has been behind bars for nearly 40 years because in the absense of family he has had to rely on others do his bidding who by and large have been absolutely useless both lay and professional. When you're in Bamber's position you need the equivalent of the SAS climbing Mount Everest. He has worse than Dad's Army incapable of climbing an ant hill!
I agree, can we say LUDICROUS then?
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I agree, can we say LUDICROUS then?
What evidence do you have that DS Jones did not slip back into WHF and contaminate the silencer?
The so-called silencer evidence needs undermining on the basis of the blood flake found INSIDE not the contaminants OUTSIDE. (Hence the referral to the CoA in 2002). This is now possible.
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Doesn't matter what you say Cutie, TAFF was the CONDUCTOR and the others Played to his Music, all except the the Remarkable Mr Jone's [Stan]
You are right it does not matter what I say. What is important is what the investigation concluded. And this showed Det Sup Kenneally received the harshest criticism.
This was a case involving 5 deaths by firearm. Unprecedented for rural Essex back in the day. Look at the police hierarchy:
Constable (PC / DC
Sergeant (PS / DS) DS Jones
Inspector (Insp / DI]
Chief Inspector (CI / DCI) DCI Jones
Superintendent (Supt / DSU or DSI) DC Kenneally
Chief Superintendent (CS / DCS) Chief Sup Harris
Assistant Chief Constable (ACC)
Deputy Chief Constable (DCC)
Chief Constable (CC)
Oc course those higher up command will ultimately take responsibility for all those under their supervision.
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Didn't Taff do the only thing he could do to confirm murder suicide before he left?
ie, he checked all doors and windows were secured!= murder suicide!
It wasn't Taffs fault that the relatives made up a cock and bull story about the kitchen window!
A story that holds absolutely no weight! Where are the photos showing the bottom latch was not fixed?
At the very very least a video should have been shown to the jury of how JB could have exited the kitchen window and then secured it properly to fool Taff!
The whole case actually rests on JBs ability to enter,and then exit the WHF without leaving a trace!
Was this proven in any way? Was it Barlow or someone who said the side latch could be fixed by slamming shut the window but not the bottom peg?
Where is the photos of the kitchen window? All the police have to do is release a photo showing the bottom latch unfixed!
Why did Taff say all windows were latched and secure? He even went outside to check the pantry window with the mesh on it!
Nah! Taff did his job allright,what more could he do? After checking that the house had been secured from inside,it was up to pathologists to rule out any foul play,which they did!
Alas,then the shenanigans began!
Oh so that's all TAFF had to do, check the windows and doors. We don't need patholigists or fingerprints or Ballistics or house searches, just kill them in the house and lock all windows and doors from now on and throw away the key.
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What evidence do you have that DS Jones did not slip back into WHF and contaminate the silencer?
The so-called silencer evidence needs undermining on the basis of the blood flake found INSIDE not the contaminants OUTSIDE. (Hence the referral to the CoA in 2002). This is now possible.
Mmm? Not entirely certain that the question, if it's asked, will be taken seriously!!
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Two points HB. Firstly the way a Crime Scene is interpreted is critical. In an incident such as WHF where all the occupants were killed, the positioning of items used helps to working out what 'MAY' have happened. Primarily this is done by examining the placing of bullets and more importantly their casings.
It is possible by such positioning to manipulate the story to be told. Given the manipulation of and the withholding of documentation in this case I do not trust the findings in relation to bullets and casings. You yourself point out that SC was on top of a casing!!!?? This being the case all scenarios are to be approached with caution. Even the police cannot say with any degree of certainty what actually happened at what time and where. Only the victims knew.
Secondly you are being hard on Taff. He left the scene with the SIO, Harris to go to a meeting with the GPO. He was under orders. There were other detectives around and about and they had all been briefed. They would have been contactable by radio if required.
I totally agree with what you are saying Bubo, Woodcock tried to point this out to TAFF, but Taff would have none of it, Woodcock also pointed out that Sheila was ever so clean, her hands are clean, her finger nails are intact, the two shots to Sheila, no casings visible, Taff replied, "oh it looks like murder suicide to me" TAFF then leaves the house and Say's to SOCO with Miller in attendance with them, This is Suicide, and gives his version, he turned and Said to Woodcock, "thank you" Woodcock never saw him again.
Now if you think I'm being hard on TAFF, i'm sorry BUBO but TAFF might be the reason Bamber is in Jail. Look TAFF wouldn't consider the information and listen to anything said objectively what other police officers said, he never relayed the thoughts or objections these officers had and passed such on with those senior, i think those above thought it was case closed and it was murder suicide and it had come to a conclusion.
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Mmm? Not entirely certain that the question, if it's asked, will be taken seriously!!
I don't do old ground with Cutie Jane, next she will be asking what evidence do i have to prove the Queen didn't have an affair with Putin. That's how Bonkers and how serious i take her.
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I don't do old ground with Cutie Jane, next she will be asking what evidence do i have to prove the Queen didn't have an affair with Putin. That's how Bonkers and how serious i take her.
Well, I'm not happy with proving negatives, HB. Best leave well enough alone, eh?
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The casings around SC are where they would be expected. There's nothing contentious about them afaik.
The diagram is reliable because each casing was photographed and gone through in some detail at trial by way of DC Hammersley's trial testimony.
Nothing to do with DCI Jones. The SOCO team captured all the relevant evidence by way of photographs and physical exhibits.
Is that in your 'professional' opinion?
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The above is not an exact science as the casings can ricochet and get kicked about but enough were fired to see patterns especially in what was referred to as the main bedroom/NB's and June's bedroom.
The totality of the soc evidence: bloodstains, casings, distance of shots, trajectories and wound tracks does not support the prosecution case that JB entered the main bedroom and opened fire on his prone parents in bed.
It supports SC standing at the bottom of the bed, June's side, opening fire on a prone June. NB coming upstairs from downstairs, with SC turning some 30/35 degrees to the right and inflicting the facial shots to NB as he was standing on the stairs immediately preceding the entrance to the main bedroom.
If you consider the casing layout diagram for the twin's room, bearing in mind the ejection port ejects to the right and forward, it shows the casings in areas you would expect. If you do the same for the main bedroom it does not show casings in areas you would expect to see them based on the prosecution case. It shows casings in areas you would expect to see them based on the totality of the soc evidence as described above.
Curiosity will say NB disturbed the casings by throwing back the duvet. But this is not what the soc image portrays. It portrays NB leaving the bed unhastily probably bearing in mind a sleeping June. It is as though he slid out of bed rather than jumped out throwing the duvet over June's side.
Oh you and your trajectories ;D
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I have it roughly and i DO say ROUGHLY, TAFF arrives at WHF at 9.00/9.05am does a quick recky of the scene goes outside at 9.30am and tells Miller and Soco it's murder suicide. It must be aound about this timing, Woodcock doesn't see him again after 9.30am at WHF and Woodcock is still there at 11.10am because he's asked to make safe the weapons by Montgomery?
I can Make out from Taff's notes he's in his office at 11'30am doing reports, i can't make out what he's saying and who he's with at 1020am?
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I don't do old ground with Cutie Jane, next she will be asking what evidence do i have to prove the Queen didn't have an affair with Putin. That's how Bonkers and how serious i take her.
Why even bother wasting your time in the first place?
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Why even bother wasting your time in the first place?
I'm begining to wonder myself David, i don't mind debating, and it keeps the forum active, but your probably right.
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This is someone who admits to drinking four cans of beer while on the forums. Why even bother wasting your time in the first place?
Just a Question David, i think you live in london, do you Cycle at all?
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Just a Question David, i think you live in london, do you Cycle at all?
I live on the very edge of London. I have an indoor exercise bike if that counts :))
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I live on the very edge of London. I have an indoor exercise bike if that counts :))
It still does count David, well done. I just thought i'd ask, on how you feel about cycling around London if you had one that's all, i love it. I don't like the Delivery Driving cycle's with doctored Ebike wizzing through the streets and not stopping at any red lights, i think when i cycle everbody looks at me gone out for stopping at a red Light, the London Cyclist let down the rest of us and create the us and them attitude of some drivers.
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What evidence do you have that DS Jones did not slip back into WHF and contaminate the silencer?
The so-called silencer evidence needs undermining on the basis of the blood flake found INSIDE not the contaminants OUTSIDE. (Hence the referral to the CoA in 2002). This is now possible.
What evidence do you have that he did? So you (being in the A team) can undermine the flake inside the silencer evidence can you? So what are you doing wasting your time here woman? Why aren't you saving the day for Bamber?
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Oh you and your trajectories ;D
Well why do you think Dr Vanezis highlighted for the defence, pre-trial, the trajectories for NB's facial shots?
He realised the significance when you have a 6' 4" tall man with gunshot wounds to the face and trajectories some 15 degrees below the horizontal.
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Well why do you think Dr Vanezis highlighted for the defence, pre-trial, the trajectories for NB's facial shots?
He realised the significance when you have a 6' 4" tall man with gunshot wounds to the face and trajectories some 15 degrees below the horizontal.
Oh I understand the significance - that's really not what I meant ;D