Distribution of Casings

[Cambridgecutie]

[/b]

Two points HB. Firstly the way a Crime Scene is interpreted is critical. In an incident such as WHF where all the occupants were killed, the positioning of items used helps to working out what 'MAY' have happened. Primarily this is done by examining the placing of bullets and more importantly their casings.

It is possible by such positioning to manipulate the story to be told. Given the manipulation of and the withholding of documentation in this case I do not trust the findings in relation to bullets and casings. You yourself point out that SC was on top of a casing!!!?? This being the case all scenarios are to be approached with caution. Even the police cannot say with any degree of certainty what actually happened at what time and where. Only the victims knew.

Secondly you are being hard on Taff. He left the scene with the SIO, Harris to go to a meeting with the GPO.  He was under orders. There were other detectives around and about and they had all been briefed. They would have been contactable by radio if required.

I thought it wouldn't be long before you popped up with a conspiracy theory.

The casings are a reliable source of untapped data as most were photographed in-situ on the day of the murders and certainly before close of play on 9th when the soc was released back to JB.

There's no evidence the police or judiciary were trained in soc reconstruction at the time.  Hence when Lawson asked Fletcher at trial if anyone was shot outside the bedroom upstairs he replied no.  Today would be very different.  It would all be mapped out in 3d computer graphics.  But much of the data has been preserved so the CCRC could order the opening up of WHF to take room measurements. 

For SoC:

Blood stains on flooring - available/images
Location of casings - available/images
Distance of shots - available from pm/forensic data
Trajectories - available from pm data
Wound tracks - available from pm data
Victims dimensions - available from pm data
Layout and size of rooms - available from soc images and WHF

[Cambridgecutie]

Read what Woodcock say's about the casings, you wasn't there and have no idea where the casings were first reported, your going on a drawaing that''s all.  Why would Woodcock make up such claim? If Woodcock is making such things up, there are Plenty of senior officers who could call him a liar.

It does not matter.  What is important is what the court at trial was told.  And a completely different narrative can now be argued.

[Hardy Boy]

I thought it wouldn't be long before you popped up with a conspiracy theory.

The casings are a reliable source of untapped data as most were photographed in-situ on the day of the murders and certainly before close of play on 9th when the soc was released back to JB.

There's no evidence the police or judiciary were trained in soc reconstruction at the time.  Hence when Lawson asked Fletcher at trial if anyone was shot outside the bedroom upstairs he replied no.  Today would be very different.  It would all be mapped out in 3d computer graphics.  But much of the data has been preserved so the CCRC could order the opening up of WHF to take room measurements. 

For SoC:

Blood stains on flooring - available/images
Location of casings - available/images
Distance of shots - available from pm/forensic data
Trajectories - available from pm data
Wound tracks - available from pm data
Victims dimensions - available from pm data
Layout and size of rooms - available from soc images and WHF

Don't be mean Cutie, Bubo raised some good points, let's look at your Conspiracy theories, SJ climbed through the Window and Planted his Own Blood on the silencer to be used as evidence against someone else.

[Adam]

Nevill, June, Daniel and Nicholas recieved 19 shots in or by there beds. This is not surprising as it was around 2am.

Nevill was chased or followed Bamber downstairs. He received 4 shots in the kitchen after Bamber's attack with the rifle.

Sheila was shot twice in the main bedroom after walking there herself or being lead there.

[Cambridgecutie]

Are you OK HB. Harris was the SIO at this stage not Taff. How could he get the brunt of it at the press conference? He died before the trial. Are you saying the police blamed their deceased and decorated colleague?

Det Sup Kenneally took the brunt of the criticism in the Dickinson report.

[Hardy Boy]

Det Sup Kenneally took the brunt of the criticism in the Dickinson report.

Naughty Cutie add the rest.

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1168.0;attach=19665;image

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1168.0;attach=19666;image

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1168.0;attach=19678;image

I find that bit intersting...............failure to update senior officers

I do part blame Miller, he was the one who releaed the bodies, even though the silencer had been found, TAFF was on a Course for two or three Day's about PACE.

[Hardy Boy]

Det Sup Kenneally took the brunt of the criticism in the Dickinson report.

Doesn't matter what you say Cutie, TAFF was the CONDUCTOR and the others Played to his Music, all except the the Remarkable Mr Jone's [Stan]

[Cambridgecutie]

Don't be mean Cutie, Bubo raised some good points, let's look at your Conspiracy theories, SJ climbed through the Window and Planted his Own Blood on the silencer to be used as evidence against someone else.

My belief that DS Jones contaminated the OUTSIDE of the silencer does not meet the definition of a conspiracy. 

The case is very simple.  All agreed it was murder/sucide except DS Jones.  He allowed the relatives to influence him and seized the moment when he contaminated the OUTSIDE of the silencer.  This set in motion a chain of events namely JM's testimony and a set of test results from the lab which secured Bamber's conviction. 

Bamber has been behind bars for nearly 40 years because in the absense of family he has had to rely on others do his bidding who by and large have been absolutely useless both lay and professional.  When you're in Bamber's position you need the equivalent of the SAS climbing Mount Everest.  He has worse than Dad's Army incapable of climbing an ant hill! 

[Hardy Boy]

My belief that DS Jones contaminated the OUTSIDE of the silencer does not meet the definition of a conspiracy.

The case is very simple.  All agreed it was murder/sucide except DS Jones.  He allowed the relatives to influence him and seized the moment when he contaminated the OUTSIDE of the silencer.  This set in motion a chain of events namely JM's testimony and a set of test results from the lab which secured Bamber's conviction. 

Bamber has been behind bars for nearly 40 years because in the absense of family he has had to rely on others do his bidding who by and large have been absolutely useless both lay and professional.  When you're in Bamber's position you need the equivalent of the SAS climbing Mount Everest.  He has worse than Dad's Army incapable of climbing an ant hill!

I agree, can we say LUDICROUS then?

[Cambridgecutie]

I agree, can we say LUDICROUS then?

What evidence do you have that DS Jones did not slip back into WHF and contaminate the silencer? 

The so-called silencer evidence needs undermining on the basis of the blood flake found INSIDE not the contaminants OUTSIDE.  (Hence the referral to the CoA in 2002).  This is now possible. 

[Cambridgecutie]

Doesn't matter what you say Cutie, TAFF was the CONDUCTOR and the others Played to his Music, all except the the Remarkable Mr Jone's [Stan]

You are right it does not matter what I say.  What is important is what the investigation concluded.  And this showed Det Sup Kenneally received the harshest criticism. 

This was a case involving 5 deaths by firearm.  Unprecedented for rural Essex back in the day.  Look at the police hierarchy:

Constable (PC / DC
Sergeant (PS / DS)                              DS Jones
Inspector (Insp / DI]
Chief Inspector (CI / DCI)                    DCI Jones
Superintendent (Supt / DSU or DSI)     DC Kenneally
Chief Superintendent (CS / DCS)          Chief Sup Harris       
Assistant Chief Constable (ACC)
Deputy Chief Constable (DCC)
Chief Constable (CC)

Oc course those higher up command will ultimately take responsibility for all those under their supervision.

[Hardy Boy]

Didn't Taff do the only thing he could do to confirm murder suicide before he left?
ie, he checked all doors and windows were secured!= murder suicide!
It wasn't Taffs fault that the relatives made up a cock and bull story about the kitchen window!
A story that holds absolutely no weight! Where are the photos showing the bottom latch was not fixed?
At the very very least a video should have been shown to the jury of how JB could have exited the kitchen window and then secured it properly to fool Taff!
The whole case actually rests on JBs ability to enter,and then exit the WHF without leaving a trace!
Was this proven in any way? Was it Barlow or someone who said the side latch could be fixed by slamming shut the window but not the bottom peg?
Where is the photos of the kitchen window? All the police have to do is release a photo showing the bottom latch unfixed!
Why did Taff say all windows were latched and secure? He even went outside to check the pantry window with the mesh on it!
Nah! Taff did his job allright,what more could he do? After checking that the house had been secured from inside,it was up to pathologists to rule out any foul play,which they did!
Alas,then the shenanigans began!

Oh so  that's all TAFF had to do, check the windows and doors.  We don't need patholigists or fingerprints or Ballistics or house searches, just kill them in the house and lock all windows and doors from now on and throw away the key.

[Jane]

What evidence do you have that DS Jones did not slip back into WHF and contaminate the silencer? 

The so-called silencer evidence needs undermining on the basis of the blood flake found INSIDE not the contaminants OUTSIDE.  (Hence the referral to the CoA in 2002).  This is now possible.

Mmm? Not entirely certain that the question, if it's asked, will be taken seriously!!

[Hardy Boy]

[/b]

Two points HB. Firstly the way a Crime Scene is interpreted is critical. In an incident such as WHF where all the occupants were killed, the positioning of items used helps to working out what 'MAY' have happened. Primarily this is done by examining the placing of bullets and more importantly their casings.

It is possible by such positioning to manipulate the story to be told. Given the manipulation of and the withholding of documentation in this case I do not trust the findings in relation to bullets and casings. You yourself point out that SC was on top of a casing!!!?? This being the case all scenarios are to be approached with caution. Even the police cannot say with any degree of certainty what actually happened at what time and where. Only the victims knew.

Secondly you are being hard on Taff. He left the scene with the SIO, Harris to go to a meeting with the GPO.  He was under orders. There were other detectives around and about and they had all been briefed. They would have been contactable by radio if required.

I totally agree with what you are saying Bubo, Woodcock tried to point this out to TAFF, but Taff would have none of it, Woodcock also pointed out that Sheila was ever so clean, her hands are clean, her finger nails are intact, the two shots to Sheila, no casings visible, Taff replied, "oh it looks like murder suicide to me" TAFF then leaves the house and Say's to SOCO with Miller in attendance with them, This is Suicide, and gives his version,  he turned and Said to Woodcock, "thank you" Woodcock never saw him again.

Now if you think I'm being hard on TAFF, i'm sorry BUBO but TAFF might be the reason Bamber is in Jail.  Look TAFF wouldn't consider the information and listen to anything said objectively what other police officers said, he never relayed the thoughts or objections these officers had and passed such on with those senior, i think those above thought it was case closed and it was murder suicide and it had come to a conclusion.

[Hardy Boy]

Mmm? Not entirely certain that the question, if it's asked, will be taken seriously!!

I don't do old ground with Cutie Jane, next she will be asking what evidence do i have to prove the Queen didn't have an affair with Putin.  That's how Bonkers and how serious i take her.