so wheres this forensic breakthrough then.

[David1819]

My expectations were that I'd have expected more than just a few drips as shown on the carpet, wherever they came from ?

At what stage was the larger carpet moved ? It was clearly moved before those photographs were taken, which meant that the two bodies would have been moved------again, after the pics were taken, but there's no information that I know of as to who removed a carpet and left it folded/rolled-up in the bedroom.

What carpet are you talking about? The one underneath Sheila was not moved, because it has Nevils socks on it with droplets of Junes blood over those socks consistent with the rest of blood drops on the other carpet.

[lookout]

Fag ash? That is not good.

Not purposely you understand----just on reaching over to the ash-tray and sometimes missing it.

[David1819]

Not purposely you understand----just on reaching over to the ash-tray and sometimes missing it.

I meant smoking is not good. Just sayin 

[lookout]

I meant smoking is not good. Just sayin 

I know it isn't good and I've tried stopping.  I'll have to get one of those dud ones from the joke shop.

[David1819]

I know it isn't good and I've tried stopping.  I'll have to get one of those dud ones from the joke shop.

Have you tried vaping?

I quit a long time ago before that became I thing. But I would suggest you try.

[Roch]

Vanezis re-examination by Arlidge QC

Q. And then you have got this blood on the forearm, which has got spots and then trails either to or from the spots?

A. Yes.

Q. What can you say about those?

A. These trails of blood appear to have run vertically down the outer side of the arm.

Q. They look as if they are going sideways to start with and then they go down?

A. Yes.

Q. Can you tell how that had occurred? Was that from a wound or did it come from somewhere else?

A. In my view these trails of blood were associated with a substantial blood staining on the right side of the nightdress in the armpit area and below, as well as the blood from the neck region.

Q. When you say "associated", do you mean by that it had run directly from one of the other wounds or had it fallen on to it, or what do you say?

A. All I can say is blood had been transferred from that area on to the arm and, of course, trailed.

Q. There are obviously wounds in the neck?

A. Yes.

Q. Was there an indication that blood had run down from those wounds?

A. Yes.

How could blood either from the neck wound or the pooled armpit area, cause four equidistant, linear blood trails? (wrist).

[David1819]

How could blood either from the neck wound or the pooled armpit area, cause four equidistant, linear blood trails? (wrist).

Gravity.

[lookout]

Liquid of any kind finds its own level and blood is no different as once it landed on the arm it naturally ran down forming/leaving behind the striped effect.

[lookout]

Drop some water on your arm and it'll naturally run either side, it won't stay put.

[Roch]

Sorry, I'm not getting it.  Blood spurting from a neck wound or seeping from armpit area causes four equidistant streaks.  I cant visualise it.

[David1819]

Sorry, I'm not getting it.  Blood spurting from a neck wound or seeping from armpit area causes four equidistant streaks.  I cant visualise it.

This guy has just one cut under his eyebrow. How do you think those four streaks got from his eyebrow to his shoulder and chest? Once blood leaks its runs, you cannot control it.

[lookout]

The first gunshot which didn't kill instantly would have made Sheila aware that there was an injury and if she was in a semi-sitting position leaning against the bedside cabinet with her head forward then droplets of blood would have landed on her arm which was across her waist.
It wouldn't have spurted because the first shot hit a vein and not an artery. The blood which landed from her neck onto her arm would naturally have ran down forming the stripes. If her arm hadn't have been there then it would have gathered on the front/waist position of her nightdress but there was no blood on the front of her nightdress.
The second shot which would have followed soon after would have thrown her back when it hit the main artery which is then why the blood had pooled at the back of her head/neck and shoulder.

[lookout]

A nose bleed would have caused that on her arm.

[Harry]

She was bleeding Lookout, I think Bamber used her own blood to make it look as though she was holding the bible when she died however, I think he probably realised it looked too staged so he tried to cover up by opening the bible on a different page and placing it over the stain. The police probably closed it and didn't take note of which page it had been opened and assumed it must have been on the stained page. He then placed the gun on her and made sure her arm covered the finger marks. But put them together and bingo!

In that case there would be another stained page caused by the stain on the carpet after Bamber put it there. It's now recognised that the the bible is open at a different page in photographs of it on the carpet to the page where the alleged palm print was found.



If the police had found two different places where the bible has stained pages, they would have thought that they had Bamber bang to rights, since Sheila could not have been opening and closing the bible after she was dead. Instead they have prevented the bible from being examined and the issues clarified.

You seem to be saying that the bible has been opened at three different places in the relevant period.

1 The place where the alleged palm print is seen. Bamber in your scenario  pressed Sheila's blood stained palm on it after she was dead.

2 The place where it was open when Bamber allegedly put it on the stain on the carpet after closing it and opening it at a different page.

3 The place it was open at when the police put it down again after closing it and opening it again.

The main objection is that there would be a stain from the carpet where (2) is concerned. There just can't have been, or the prosecution would have used it as proof of guilt.

[Caroline]

In that case there would be another stained page caused by the stain on the carpet after Bamber put it there. It's now recognised that the the bible is open at a different page in photographs of it on the carpet to the page where the alleged palm print was found.



If the police had found two different places where the bible has stained pages, they would have thought that they had Bamber bang to rights, since Sheila could not have been opening and closing the bible after she was dead. Instead they have prevented the bible from being examined and the issues clarified.

You seem to be saying that the bible has been opened at three different places in the relevant period.

1 The place where the alleged palm print is seen. Bamber in your "scenario"  pressed Sheila's blood stained palm on it after she was dead.

2 The place where it was open when Bamber allegedly put it on the stain on the carpet after closing it and opening it at different page.

3 The place it was open at when the police put it down again after closing it and opening it again.

The main objection is that there would be a stain from the carpet where (2) is concerned. There just can't have been, or the prosecution would have used it as proof of guilt.

Not if the stain on the carpet was semi dry however, according to Bamber himself, there are other stains on the bible so ...... Also, the pictures you have posted show that the page at which the bible was open on the carpet, cannot be the one named in the evidence (or the one with the palm stain) because of the page distribution. The page with the palm stain, is almost right in the center of bible - but from the crime scene picture the open page is around two thirds towards the end. From your own words, Sheila can't have been opening and closing the bible ...... but someone did.