so wheres this forensic breakthrough then.

[Caroline]

The pic is misleading as regards her arm being shown next to the trigger. It's not how it would have been as the gun has been carelessly placed. An afterthought by incompetents.

Picture the scenario without the gun being there. Before the second shot ( as the first won't have killed her outright ) that wound would have dripped blood and if she'd been in a semi-sitting position, the blood would have dropped onto her crooked arm across her body.


Which hand are you talking about ? How did blood get into her hand ?  It's impossible for blood from a hand to land where it did, unless she had long stripes of it going down her left arm and even then it would have to drop "to order" to  form the pattern of droplets on her arm.

The scenario you depict doesn't hold any weight and the police only lifted her hand to reveal the stain, her hand was found on the trigger - they took a picture of this FIRST.

I don't believe the blood got onto her hand by accident, I believe it was part of the staging along with the palm print and finger marks. However, a change of heart led to the bible upturned on the floor and her hand on the trigger.

[lookout]

The scenario you depict doesn't hold any weight and the police only lifted her hand to reveal the stain, her hand was found on the trigger - they took a picture of this FIRST.

I don't believe the blood got onto her hand by accident, I believe it was part of the staging along with the palm print and finger marks. However, a change of heart led to the bible upturned on the floor and her hand on the trigger.

Okay, so how would your scenario pan out ?
We were originally led to believe that there was no blood on her hands, so where do you suppose the blood came from after this had been established ?

[Caroline]

Okay, so how would your scenario pan out ?
We were originally led to believe that there was no blood on her hands, so where do you suppose the blood came from after this had been established ?

She was bleeding Lookout, I think Bamber used her own blood to make it look as though she was holding the bible when she died however, I think he probably realised it looked too staged so he tried to cover up by opening the bible on a different page and placing it over the stain. The police probably closed it and didn't take note of which page it had been opened and assumed it must have been on the stained page. He then placed the gun on her and made sure her arm covered the finger marks. But put them together and bingo!

[lookout]

She was bleeding Lookout, I think Bamber used her own blood to make it look as though she was holding the bible when she died however, I think he probably realised it looked too staged so he tried to cover up by opening the bible on a different page and placing it over the stain. The police probably closed it and didn't take note of which page it had been opened and assumed it must have been on the stained page. He then placed the gun on her and made sure her arm covered the finger marks. But put them together and bingo!

Where was all the blood ? Considering it was a complete bloodbath in that bedroom considering the bullets that were used there was so little blood to be seen especially from arterial areas of both bodies ?

Well that would be a fine scenario except that one or two officers on entering didn't see the gun on her body but by her side, so did JB suddenly skoot along unseen and replace it on top of her body ? Then add a drop of blood here and there for effect ? Where are his prints ? It would have been all that was needed for an immediate arrest.


JB would have had to have physically pressed Sheila's palm onto the Bible to get such an impression, so did he wash her hand afterwards as she had been clear of any blood on her hands ?

[Caroline]

Where was all the blood ? Considering it was a complete bloodbath in that bedroom considering the bullets that were used there was so little blood to be seen especially from arterial areas of both bodies ?

Well that would be a fine scenario except that one or two officers on entering didn't see the gun on her body but by her side, so did JB suddenly skoot along unseen and replace it on top of her body ? Then add a drop of blood here and there for effect ? Where are his prints ? It would have been all that was needed for an immediate arrest.


JB would have had to have physically pressed Sheila's palm onto the Bible to get such an impression, so did he wash her hand afterwards as she had been clear of any blood on her hands ?

There was enough blood pooled under her arm and I would think that Bamber wore gloves. There are smudges on her arm consistent with someone holding it.

[lookout]

There was enough blood pooled under her arm and I would think that Bamber wore gloves. There are smudges on her arm consistent with someone holding it.

Prints are still detectable through gloves as fibres are left which the naked eye can't see and I'm sure we'd have heard/seen results of such long before now.

Where is all the blood that should have surrounded June ? She'd been peppered with bullets ?

[Caroline]

Prints are still detectable through gloves as fibres are left which the naked eye can't see and I'm sure we'd have heard/seen results of such long before now.

Where is all the blood that should have surrounded June ? She'd been peppered with bullets ?

Pints aren’t detectable through gloves as for fibres, I doubt they looked for any given they thought she killed herself but it would also depend on what they were made of.

[Jane]

Prints are still detectable through gloves as fibres are left which the naked eye can't see and I'm sure we'd have heard/seen results of such long before now.

Where is all the blood that should have surrounded June ? She'd been peppered with bullets ?

I know there's been a thing about Marigolds but I very much doubt -other than wishful thinking- there'd be anything of the wearer detectable if they've worn industrial weight protective gloves which are lined. Their purpose being to keep harmful chemicals out, I can't see how they'd allow human secretions out.  Even my washing up gloves can remain perfectly dry on the outside whilst my fingers and hands are wet with perspiration.

It seems some members of the police saw things others didn't, but like the camera, their reports are simply a moment captured in time. My view is that the scene was 'dressed' to create an impression. What's dressed can be undressed and/or redressed.

[David1819]

The second one is very possible. We can see on the corner of her night dress that blood was spurting out.

Blood could have got on her arm then trickled downwards before she fell back. We can already see those streams change direction due to her falling.

Vanezis re-examination by Arlidge QC

Q. And then you have got this blood on the forearm, which has got spots and then trails either to or from the spots?

A. Yes.

Q. What can you say about those?

A. These trails of blood appear to have run vertically down the outer side of the arm.

Q. They look as if they are going sideways to start with and then they go down?

A. Yes.

Q. Can you tell how that had occurred? Was that from a wound or did it come from somewhere else?

A. In my view these trails of blood were associated with a substantial blood staining on the right side of the nightdress in the armpit area and below, as well as the blood from the neck region.

Q. When you say "associated", do you mean by that it had run directly from one of the other wounds or had it fallen on to it, or what do you say?

A. All I can say is blood had been transferred from that area on to the arm and, of course, trailed.

Q. There are obviously wounds in the neck?

A. Yes.

Q. Was there an indication that blood had run down from those wounds?

A. Yes.

[lookout]

Well there's your answer-----blood had run from one of the wounds in her neck on to her arm.
Elementary isn't it ?

[lookout]

Blood from the second wound would only have spurted for as long as the heart pumped and that wouldn't have been long enough to have created the bloodbath that would have occurred in that smallish room with two bodies that had been shot at--------so where was all the blood surrounding the two women ? There's virtually no blood around June.

Did JB also fold up the carpet that was heavily soiled thus lifting both bodies in the process ? All in the space of how long------------?

[David1819]

Well there's your answer-----blood had run from one of the wounds in her neck on to her arm.
Elementary isn't it ?

You only need to look at the photos to work that out!

If the pathologist gave any other explanation he would be wrong.

[lookout]

You only need to look at the photos to work that out!

If the pathologist gave any other explanation he would be wrong.

I agree.

[Caroline]

Well there's your answer-----blood had run from one of the wounds in her neck on to her arm.
Elementary isn't it ?

What answer? I don’t agree, I think it was part of the staging which is why there is a partial palm print on the bible. The rest of the hand is on the nightdress.

[David1819]

Where was all the blood ? Considering it was a complete bloodbath in that bedroom considering the bullets that were used there was so little blood to be seen especially from arterial areas of both bodies ?

I think like many people your expectations of blood at a crime scene have been somewhat warped by TV and films.

There was a lot of blood around June and Nevill. But not the bloodbaths you see on TV films that are exaderated simply for the audience consumption.