Significance of two double marked bullet cases, found in kitchen?

[chochokeira]

It isn't rocket science, to work out the sequence of events. Ralph went downstairs to check out why the outside dog was barking, June settled down and went back to sleep, the boys slept on, Sheila was in her bedroom, doing what she always did, and Ralph was taken unawares. He didn't get a chance to call anyone, he was beaten then shot to death. then the assailant moved upstairs.

What about the shot on the stairs?

[vidvic]

Even though it seems to me there isn't any evidence to suggest Nevill called either Jeremy or the Police, lets assume JB didn't call the Police until 3.36 as Mike is suggesting.

By Jeremy's own statement the call HE made to the Police lasted 10-11 minutes including the time he was kept on hold. At no time during this call was it ever claimed that he was told that the Police had already received a call and had already sent a car.

He then was supposed to have called Julie AFTER the call to Police, putting this call at 3.47 at the very earliest, which is 17 minutes AFTER the time JB claimed he called her and which is disputed by evidence of three people living in the house with Julie in London, all of which put the time at nearer 3.00am.

This would place the call to the Police at 26minutes AFTER Jeremy claimed his Father called him. That's a long time to react.

JB was asleep in bed when he got the call from his Father so wasn't dressed. The call to Police finishes at 3.47 Earliest, he then calls Julie, he dresses and is overtaken by Police at approx 3.58 driving at 30mph towards Whitehouse. Only 11 minutes after the end of the call to Police.

In my humble opinion, these timings are unrealistic and far less believable than one single call to the Police, as always claimed and never disputed before, at 2.26.

[Jerry]

No bicycle, no wetsuit, but also no proof that Ralph made the call.................

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Equally, there is no proof that Ralph did not make the call...

There's no proof Ralph didn't dicover the secret of free energy and get shot by American oil magnates either Mike, but as someone has already said tonight - you can't prove a negative. If you want to claim Ralph made a phone call then you have to provide evidence for it - and that evidence can't be such that it is more easily explained as a police log referencing Jeremy's earlier call. Which it certainly appears to be, I'm afraid 

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I think details refer to call made by Ralph Bamber (3:26am) and that these are totally different to the log contents of Jeremy's call timed at 3:36am, where Ralph refers in his call to his daughter and the fact that she has got one of his guns, whereas, in Jeremy's call, he mentions sister and that she has got possession of the gun...

As I say, Sheila was not Jeremy's daughter, and Jeremy did not own the gun that supposedly fired all the bullets that killed everyone - why would Jeremy be referring to Sheila as his daughter and the fact that she had got one of his guns?

A record only exists of the call Jeremy made to police timed by CD in the Essex Police control room at 3.26.  It doesn't matter what clock you use as the police log refers to the first police cars being despatched 9 minutes later at 3.35 and 3.36.  Even if the control room clock was wrong, which I don't believe for a moment, all actions recorded are based on the same clock irrespective of whether it was 1 minute, 2 minutes or 10 minutes out of sync.

Jeremy relayed the message to police in terms of what Nevill had allegedly told him.  The police officer  known as CD who wrote down the details only repeated what Jeremy had told him in referring to Sheila as "the daughter" in the log and the report that "she had got one of my guns".

[Jerry]

Rochy, look. Nothing from Ralph.

Not if it's a rolling log and 'Mr. Bamber' of 'White House Farm' at the top of the log, is Nevill.

Mr Bamber's name is on the log as it is his property where the incident is taking place.  The log clearly indicates that the report was passed to police by "the son of Mr Bamber".  ie Jeremy Bamber.

Choosing to misinterpret the police log is very childish Rochy.

[Jerry]

Even though it seems to me there isn't any evidence to suggest Nevill called either Jeremy or the Police, lets assume JB didn't call the Police until 3.36 as Mike is suggesting.

By Jeremy's own statement the call HE made to the Police lasted 10-11 minutes including the time he was kept on hold. At no time during this call was it ever claimed that he was told that the Police had already received a call and had already sent a car.

He then was supposed to have called Julie AFTER the call to Police, putting this call at 3.47 at the very earliest, which is 17 minutes AFTER the time JB claimed he called her and which is disputed by evidence of three people living in the house with Julie in London, all of which put the time at nearer 3.00am.

This would place the call to the Police at 26minutes AFTER Jeremy claimed his Father called him. That's a long time to react.

JB was asleep in bed when he got the call from his Father so wasn't dressed. The call to Police finishes at 3.47 Earliest, he then calls Julie, he dresses and is overtaken by Police at approx 3.58 driving at 30mph towards Whitehouse. Only 11 minutes after the end of the call to Police.

In my humble opinion, these timings are unrealistic and far less believable than one single call to the Police, as always claimed and never disputed before, at 2.26.

If Nevill had managed to get through to the police before making a second call to Jeremy, a police car would have been on its way to WHF well before 3.26.  Truth is no such car was ever despatched until after Jeremy's call to police at 3.26.

I suspect he phoned Julie Mugford before he telephoned the police at 3.26.

[vidvic]

Also, Nevill looks like he called on the exchange line also..........so 2 lots of non 999 calls......

[vidvic]

Even though it seems to me there isn't any evidence to suggest Nevill called either Jeremy or the Police, lets assume JB didn't call the Police until 3.36 as Mike is suggesting.

By Jeremy's own statement the call HE made to the Police lasted 10-11 minutes including the time he was kept on hold. At no time during this call was it ever claimed that he was told that the Police had already received a call and had already sent a car.

He then was supposed to have called Julie AFTER the call to Police, putting this call at 3.47 at the very earliest, which is 17 minutes AFTER the time JB claimed he called her and which is disputed by evidence of three people living in the house with Julie in London, all of which put the time at nearer 3.00am.

This would place the call to the Police at 26minutes AFTER Jeremy claimed his Father called him. That's a long time to react.

JB was asleep in bed when he got the call from his Father so wasn't dressed. The call to Police finishes at 3.47 Earliest, he then calls Julie, he dresses and is overtaken by Police at approx 3.58 driving at 30mph towards Whitehouse. Only 11 minutes after the end of the call to Police.

In my humble opinion, these timings are unrealistic and far less believable than one single call to the Police, as always claimed and never disputed before, at 2.26.

I suspect he phoned Julie Mugford before he telephoned the police at 3.26.

Exactly. Lots of evidence to suggest around 3am.

Also, looks like I made a mistake with JB being seen at 3.58. The first car arrived at the scene at 3.48, putting jeremy at the scene at approx 3.50..... 3 Minutes after his call would have ended to Essex Police.......Impossible......

[Jerry]

I don't buy the whole scenario as portrayed by Mike.  If my adult daughter was rampaging around my home with a fully loaded rifle I would not be stood in the kitchen making telephone calls.

[Roch]

Rochy, look. Nothing from Ralph.

Not if it's a rolling log and 'Mr. Bamber' of 'White House Farm' at the top of the log, is Nevill.

Mr Bamber's name is on the log as it is his property where the incident is taking place.  The log clearly indicates that the report was passed to police by "the son of Mr Bamber".  ie Jeremy Bamber.

Choosing to misinterpret the police log is very childish Rochy.

The log is open to interpretation and needs to be compared with MB's log.  I dont think that in carrying out that comparison, the defence are being childish.  click on the link I gave shona and check on the discrepancies between the two logs regarding descriptions. 

Also, my point to Vic would be... why would someone carry out an insanely audacious five person murder, only to then leave a trail of stupidity for the police, re their timings?  There is a possible argument that in calling a local station, they may have thought that police would be more aware of local rural geography and roads?  Though, if i was nevill, it would be 999 I called, so fair point.

[Jerry]

I believe it goes something like this..

03.15    Jeremy Bamber telephones Julie Mugford in London

03.26     Jeremy Bamber phones Essex Police and makes the report his father allegedly told him earlier.

03.35     First police car CA7 despatched to WHF

03.36     Second police car CA5 despatched to WHF

03.40     Jeremy Bamber sets out from his home in Goldhanger

03.48     CA7 arrives at WHF

03.51     Jeremy Bamber arrives at WHF

[vidvic]

The log is open to interpretation and needs to be compared with MB's log.  I dont think that in carrying out that comparison, the defence are being childish.  click on the link I gave shona and check on the discrepancies between the two logs regarding descriptions.

Hi Rochford,

just think about the timings. There is simply not enough time, if JB's call was later than originally agreed, for JB to have made the calls he claims he made, get dressed, then get to the farm at about 3.50, being overtaken about 3.48. Unless he had a time machine.

[vidvic]

I believe it goes something like this..

03.15    Jeremy Bamber telephones Julie Mugford in London

03.26     Jeremy Bamber phones Essex Police and makes the report his father allegedly told him earlier.

03.35     First police car CA7 despatched to WHF

03.36     Second police car CA5 despatched to WHF

03.40     Jeremy Bamber sets out from his home in Goldhanger

03.48     CA7 arrives at WHF

03.51     Jeremy Bamber arrives at WHF

That's pretty close, yes. Original call to Julie though was around 3am, according to three witnesses.

[Jerry]

As far as I can see the log timed at 3.36 is simply a rewrite by Malcolm Bonnet of that already reported at 3.26 to the control room.   They both relate to the same phone call made to police by Jeremy.

Both were received by CD 1990.

3.26 log

3.36 log

[Jerry]

I believe it goes something like this..

03.15    Jeremy Bamber telephones Julie Mugford in London

03.26     Jeremy Bamber phones Essex Police and makes the report his father allegedly told him earlier.

03.35     First police car CA7 despatched to WHF

03.36     Second police car CA5 despatched to WHF

03.40     Jeremy Bamber sets out from his home in Goldhanger

03.48     CA7 arrives at WHF

03.51     Jeremy Bamber arrives at WHF

That's pretty close, yes. Original call to Julie though was around 3am, according to three witnesses.

That's right but we have no way of tying that down unless I am missing something?

[tyler]

When Jeremy phoned police,he was told that there was already a car in the area.Maybe it could have just been patrolling,or maybe it could have been responding to Nevills call (if indeed he made one).
Shona,I dont think it is certain that Nevill was killed first in the kitchen.If you look back at the close up pic of the main bedroom,he seems to have been in bed at some point and Im sure there were at least 2 bullets in the bedroom that could not be linked to June or Sheila.Also,you say that you are not convinced that the photos of Sheila show wet blood, but dont forget,one of the first officers on the scene (forgot his name) logged that Sheila had blood running from both sides of her mouth.I just cannot work out how all the victims had rigor mortis and yet Sheila clearly did not! She didn't even seem to be showing signs of livor mortis.Does the livor motis come first does anyone know?