Author Topic: Injuries Jeremy and Sheila  (Read 5715 times)

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Offline Adam

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Re: Injuries Jeremy and Sheila
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2018, 10:17:AM »
Nevill had the option to negate Sheila while fully fit. And had the option of getting assistance from another adult, June.

This would have almost certainly resulted in no one getting injured and no shots being fired. At the worst one shot would be fired which would either miss Nevill or give him a non fatal injury. It was a rifle for shooting vermin. Not a shot gun.

However June continued sleeping & Nevill chose to ring Bamber instead.

Maggie just claimed the above is a 'nice story', & 'opinions but not facts'. I disagree -

Nevill had the option of trying to negate Sheila while fully fit - FACT.

Nevill had the option of getting June - FACT.

it was a rifle for shooting vermin. Not a shot gun - FACT.

June continued sleeping  - FACT.

Nevill rang Bamber - FACT.

---------

The only bit which is an opinion is that a fully fit Nevill, with or without June would easily negate Sheila.

Maggie & anyone else is entitled to disagree & say a fully fit Nevill would lose in a struggle with Sheila.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 10:27:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline lookout

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Re: Injuries Jeremy and Sheila
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2018, 10:27:AM »
Thanks. My question was are there any reports of anyone seeing injuries to Jeremy in the days after the murder, to suggest that he did tackle Nevill?






No injuries to Jeremy whatsoever ! Nothing to indicate that even the dog had bitten him ( which it would have as Crispy didn't like JB )

N.B. If anyone saw any scratches/bruises/bites etc,it would surely have been JM as she was in bed with JB on the night of the 7th after the tragedy. Afterall,she hadn't appeared to have missed anything from her statements !
« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 11:04:AM by lookout »

Offline maggie

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Re: Injuries Jeremy and Sheila
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2018, 10:38:AM »
Maggie just claimed the above is a 'nice story', & 'opinions but not facts'. I disagree -

Nevill had the option of trying to negate Sheila while fully fit - FACT.

Nevill had the option of getting June - FACT.

it was a rifle for shooting vermin. Not a shot gun - FACT.

June continued sleeping  - FACT.

Nevill rang Bamber - FACT.

---------

The only bit which is an opinion is that a fully fit Nevill, with or without June would easily negate Sheila.

Maggie & anyone else is entitled to disagree & say a fully fit Nevill would lose in a struggle with Sheila.
As I said unless you were there you don't know what went on. You can imagine as many scenarios as you want but they are always only your opinion you cannot know what the order of events was  If Sheila was in a psychotic rage the situation would be totally different than if she was just a bit angry.  I openly admit I don't know who was responsible for the deaths.  I have my own thoughts but accept they are my opinions and not truths.

Offline maggie

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Re: Injuries Jeremy and Sheila
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2018, 10:51:AM »
Maggie just claimed the above is a 'nice story', & 'opinions but not facts'. I disagree -

Nevill had the option of trying to negate Sheila while fully fit - FACT.

Nevill had the option of getting June - FACT.

it was a rifle for shooting vermin. Not a shot gun - FACT.

June continued sleeping  - FACT.

Nevill rang Bamber - FACT.

---------

The only bit which is an opinion is that a fully fit Nevill, with or without June would easily negate Sheila.

Maggie & anyone else is entitled to disagree & say a fully fit Nevill would lose in a struggle with Sheila.
Well if 'Nevill rang Bamber-FACT then you have just lost your own argument. IF Nevill rang Jeremy then he is telling the truth.
Saying someone had an OPTION to do something simply means it's a possibility, it doesn't prove anything except that your arguments are all possibilities..... FACT.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 10:56:AM by maggie »

Offline David1819

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Re: Injuries Jeremy and Sheila
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2018, 01:37:PM »
Well if 'Nevill rang Bamber-FACT then you have just lost your own argument. IF Nevill rang Jeremy then he is telling the truth.
Saying someone had an OPTION to do something simply means it's a possibility, it doesn't prove anything except that your arguments are all possibilities..... FACT.

Its a bit like that time Adam included as an "undisputed"  fact that Jeremy last saw Sheila the afternoon before the killings.  ;D

Offline Adam

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Re: Injuries Jeremy and Sheila
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2018, 01:53:PM »
Its a bit like that time Adam included as an "undisputed"  fact that Jeremy last saw Sheila the afternoon before the killings.  ;D

Please quote the post where I said that. I have known from the beginning Bamber said Sheila attended supper.

What is surprising is Bamber has never said what was said during the meeting with Sheila in the fields. However has a very good memory of the supper conversation.

A pity he has no memory of his 20 minute phone conversation with Julie afterwards. Although he called her !
 
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Injuries Jeremy and Sheila
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2018, 09:48:AM »
Please quote the post where I said that. I have known from the beginning Bamber said Sheila attended supper.

What is surprising is Bamber has never said what was said during the meeting with Sheila in the fields. However has a very good memory of the supper conversation.

A pity he has no memory of his 20 minute phone conversation with Julie afterwards. Although he called her !

No response from David I don't know why he said I posted something, which I didn't - reply 19.

I posted on page 1 that David has suggested Nevill phoned Jeremy after Sheila started shooting the twins. Which I of course can 'quote the post for'. 
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 10:09:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 09:52:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Roch

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Re: Injuries Jeremy and Sheila
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2018, 10:48:AM »
A lot has been made of the lack of injuries to Sheila

A lot has been made of a load of rubbish, imho.



And there are more.  And both both Nevill and June had wounds also. 

In order to prosecute Jeremy, they first had to ensure that any evidence of a fight between Sheila / Nevill / June was omitted.  This was done in varying ways: outright omission of wounds from the record (e.g. June's chin); attributing wounds to another cause (e.g. when the marks on Nevill's arm came to light); and passing off wounds as 'smears' or 'smearing'.

Sheila even has a mark on the outside of her forefinger (see base of finger) consistent in shape with a machined part of the Anschutz.  At trial when questioned, Peter Vanezizs claims he is not sure what this is and that from the larger photo shown in court, it may be smearing. 

How can Peter Vanezis - a pathologist with a body in front of him, not know what the mark is on the base of the forefinger of her right hand, which had been found draped across the rifle?  At that point in time, he had on the table in front of him, the corpse of the sole suspect in a multiple shooting incident.  Not just the prime suspect - the only suspect.  He even went on record in some form, expressing that he was distinctly unimpressed with DS Stan Jones' later theory that Jeremy was the killer. 

How can he then appear in a courtroom and profess not to know what the mark was?  His questioning in this matter was choreographed, imo.

Then there's the small matter of Jeremy's lack of wounds.  An inheritance killer, who using a weapon designed for shooting small mamals, attempts to kill three adults, any of whom could have fought to protect the twins.  If he sustains just one notable injury in the ensuing incident, his whole plan would collapse with immediate effect.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 08:58:PM by Roch »

Offline lookout

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Re: Injuries Jeremy and Sheila
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2018, 11:33:AM »
Definitely grip marks------the more you look at those injuries and picture her pressure on the rifle's trigger area.

Offline Roch

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Re: Injuries Jeremy and Sheila
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2018, 11:49:AM »
Definitely grip marks------the more you look at those injuries and picture her pressure on the rifle's trigger area.

It's not the trigger that caused the forefinger mark. But there is an engineered part with the same shape.

Offline maggie

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Re: Injuries Jeremy and Sheila
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2018, 11:58:AM »
A lot has been made of a load of rubbish, imho.



And there are more.  And both both Nevill and June had wounds also. 

In order to prosecute Jeremy, they first had to ensure that any evidence of a fight between Sheila / Nevill / June was ommitted.  This was done in varing ways: outright omission of wounds from the record (e.g. June's chin); attributing wounds to another cause (e.g. when the marks on Nevill's arm came to light); and passing off wounds as 'smears' or 'smearing'.

Sheila even has a mark on the outside of her forefinger (see base of finger) consistent in shape with a machined part of the Anschutz.  At trial when questioned, Peter Vanezizs claims he is not sure what this is and that from the larger photo shown in court, it may be smearing. 

How can Peter Vanezis - a pathologist with a body in front of him, not know what the mark is on the base of the forefinger of her right hand, which had been found draped across the rifle?  At that point in time, he had on the table in front of him, the corpse of the sole suspect in a multiple shooting incident.  Not just the prime suspect - the only suspect.  He even went on record in some form, expressing that he was distinctly unimpressed with DS Stan Jones' later theory that Jeremy was the killer. 

How can he then appear in a courtroom and profess not to know what the mark was?  His questioning in this matter was choreographed, imo.

Then there's the small matter of Jeremy's lack of wounds.  An inheritance killer, who using a weapon designed for shooting small mamals, attempts to kill three adults, any of whom could have fought to protect the twins.  If he sustains just one notable injury in the ensuing incident, his whole plan would collapse with immediate effect.
Well said Roch.  Totally agree

Offline lookout

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Re: Injuries Jeremy and Sheila
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2018, 12:32:PM »
It's not the trigger that caused the forefinger mark. But there is an engineered part with the same shape.






Like a deliberate digging in with fingernails ? Hence the half-moon shape.

Offline Roch

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Re: Injuries Jeremy and Sheila
« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2018, 08:55:PM »





Like a deliberate digging in with fingernails ? Hence the half-moon shape.

Lower down on the back of hand, yes.  Desperately trying to force Sheila to release her grip on the rifle?
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 08:56:PM by Roch »

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Injuries Jeremy and Sheila
« Reply #29 on: April 17, 2018, 09:22:PM »
A lot has been made of a load of rubbish, imho.



And there are more.  And both both Nevill and June had wounds also. 

In order to prosecute Jeremy, they first had to ensure that any evidence of a fight between Sheila / Nevill / June was omitted.  This was done in varying ways: outright omission of wounds from the record (e.g. June's chin); attributing wounds to another cause (e.g. when the marks on Nevill's arm came to light); and passing off wounds as 'smears' or 'smearing'.

Sheila even has a mark on the outside of her forefinger (see base of finger) consistent in shape with a machined part of the Anschutz.  At trial when questioned, Peter Vanezizs claims he is not sure what this is and that from the larger photo shown in court, it may be smearing. 

How can Peter Vanezis - a pathologist with a body in front of him, not know what the mark is on the base of the forefinger of her right hand, which had been found draped across the rifle?  At that point in time, he had on the table in front of him, the corpse of the sole suspect in a multiple shooting incident.  Not just the prime suspect - the only suspect.  He even went on record in some form, expressing that he was distinctly unimpressed with DS Stan Jones' later theory that Jeremy was the killer. 

How can he then appear in a courtroom and profess not to know what the mark was?  His questioning in this matter was choreographed, imo.

Then there's the small matter of Jeremy's lack of wounds.  An inheritance killer, who using a weapon designed for shooting small mamals, attempts to kill three adults, any of whom could have fought to protect the twins. If he sustains just one notable injury in the ensuing incident, his whole plan would collapse with immediate effect.
The trouble is you can't ascertain whether the mark was made when Jeremy thrust the Anschutz into the hand of a dopey Sheila. As for the three adults to control, Sheila was dog tired after a hectic few days, June was in bed and as we know from Barbara Wilson Nevill had been ill, though with the element of surprise with the shots to the head the 61-year-old was no match for a 24-year-old with a weapon.