How it started

[Jane]

I don't know ANY 24 year olds who work their fingers to the bone !
Half of them couldn't work in convulsions 

RUBBISH!! You're making excuses for the "poor boy". Sure, there'll always be some who prefer to doss, but the majority -even after degrees- are working. Go back 30+ years and I think there was a stronger work ethic than there now is.

[Kaldin]

JM's witness statement.

Perhaps he said it once - like most people get fed up with the jobs from time to time.

[guest2181]

This is what I'm questioning. Was it actually mapped out for him? Maybe he did want to go into farming - it's only others who have said he didn't. Where is the evidence that he didn't want to?

Perhaps the evidence is, that there doesn't appear to be any evidence that he DID want to go in to farming.

[Jane]

This is what I'm questioning. Was it actually mapped out for him? Maybe he did want to go into farming - it's only others who have said he didn't. Where is the evidence that he didn't want to?

What do you think they adopted a son for, Kaldin? They COULD have had another girl. His track record of avoiding farm work, his lack of interest in furthering his knowledge by going to ag college, is it's own evidence.

[Kaldin]

RUBBISH!! You're making excuses for the "poor boy". Sure, there'll always be some who prefer to doss, but the majority -even after degrees- are working. Go back 30+ years and I think there was a stronger work ethic than there now is.

I'm not so sure about that. The Tories had got into power in 1979 - I don't know how it was down south but in the north jobs were fairly scarce.

[lookout]

RUBBISH!! You're making excuses for the "poor boy". Sure, there'll always be some who prefer to doss, but the majority -even after degrees- are working. Go back 30+ years and I think there was a stronger work ethic than there now is.

Who were working 17 hours a day harvesting ? I doubt it.
So cobblers to you too.

[Kaldin]

What do you think they adopted a son for, Kaldin? They COULD have had another girl. His track record of avoiding farm work, his lack of interest in furthering his knowledge by going to ag college, is it's own evidence.

What? If they were desperate for a son, why didn't they adopt a baby boy instead of Sheila? Maybe they wanted a boy and girl, like people do, or maybe they just took a baby which was available. Girls can go into farming too, but there was no pressure on Sheila to do so.

None of that is evidence that he hated farming so much that he wanted to get out of it and run off with all the money - to the extent that he would murder five people, including two small boys.

[Jane]

Who were working 17 hours a day harvesting ? I doubt it.
So cobblers to you too.

Yeah, and how often does harvesting last? A tiny window of time out of the working year.

[guest2181]

What? If they were desperate for a son, why didn't they adopt a baby boy instead of Sheila? Maybe they wanted a boy and girl, like people do, or maybe they just took a baby which was available. Girls can go into farming too, but there was no pressure on Sheila to do so.

None of that is evidence that he hated farming so much that he wanted to get out of it and run off with all the money - to the extent that he would murder five people, including two small boys.

How do you know that there was any pressure for JB to go in to farming?

I still think it was just an opportunity for him to take or leave.

[Jane]

I'm not so sure about that. The Tories had got into power in 1979 - I don't know how it was down south but in the north jobs were fairly scarce.

Not as bad in the south.

[Kaldin]

How do you know that there was any pressure for JB to go in to farming?

I still think it was just an opportunity for him to take or leave.

I didn't say there was pressure - it was Jane who claimed that.

[Kaldin]

Not as bad in the south.

I'm pleased to hear that.  However, I'm not sure that the work ethnic was stronger back then. In any case, Jeremy did work. I don't know why people imply that he didn't.

[guest2181]

I didn't say there was pressure - it was Jane who claimed that.

Oh okay, you mentioned a lack of pressure on Sheila, I thought you were saying that was different with JB.

[Kaldin]

Oh okay, you mentioned a lack of pressure on Sheila, I thought you were saying that was different with JB.

I just meant that if they pressurised Jeremy, as Jane claims, why didn't they pressurise Sheila as well?

[Jane]

What? If they were desperate for a son, why didn't they adopt a baby boy instead of Sheila? Maybe they wanted a boy and girl, like people do, or maybe they just took a baby which was available. Girls can go into farming too, but there was no pressure on Sheila to do so.

None of that is evidence that he hated farming so much that he wanted to get out of it and run off with all the money - to the extent that he would murder five people, including two small boys.

Maybe the girl was to appease June for what she'd suffered. Maybe June thought she'd cope better with a girl. They were people with old fashioned values so perhaps -even had Sheila shown the remotest interest- it wouldn't have been acceptable. You keep saying that there's no evidence of him hating farming. There's even less -by his own actions- that he loved it.