How it started

[sherlock]

In my opinion it must have all started in the kitchen.

We can be sure Sheila had fired no shots before Nevill rang Jeremy.

We can be sure Nevill would not have phoned Jeremy like that if Sheila was going crazy with a gun upstairs.

Sheila must have been downstairs when Nevill phoned Jeremy.

The abruptness of the call suggests something bought it to a sudden end.

The call triggered Sheila to either :

a) cut the phone call off (maybe using the end of the rifle) and march Nevill upstairs to the bedroom at gunpoint ....

b) start walking upstairs meaning Nevill had to quickly end the call to follow her upstairs to the bedroom ...

Either way when they get to the bedroom Sheila started shooting Nevill and June ...

An injured Nevill made his way back downstairs to get out of Sheila's way.

Sheila easily finished off a badly injured and weakened Nevill in the kitchen ...

Sheila finished off the murders and shot herself ...

[Kaldin]

In my opinion it must have all started in the kitchen.

We can be sure Sheila had fired no shots before Nevill rang Jeremy.

We can be sure Nevill would not have phoned Jeremy like that if Sheila was going crazy with a gun upstairs.

Sheila must have been downstairs when Nevill phoned Jeremy.

The abruptness of the call suggests something bought it to a sudden end.

The call triggered Sheila to either :

a) cut the phone call off (maybe using the end of the rifle) and march Nevill upstairs to the bedroom at gunpoint ....

b) start walking upstairs meaning Nevill had to quickly end the call to follow her upstairs to the bedroom ...

Either way when they get to the bedroom Sheila started shooting Nevill and June ...

An injured Nevill made his way back downstairs to get out of Sheila's way.

Sheila easily finished off a badly injured and weakened Nevill in the kitchen ...

Sheila finished off the murders and shot herself ...

If, and only if, Sheila is the perpetrator, I agree with a lot of your post Sherlock. I think that no shooting had occurred when Nevill rang Nevill, and that Sheila was downstairs. I don't know why Nevill didn't get the gun off her, but perhaps she was pointing the gun at herself so he didn't want to risk it.

[sherlock]

If, and only if, Sheila is the perpetrator, I agree with a lot of your post Sherlock. I think that no shooting had occurred when Nevill rang Nevill, and that Sheila was downstairs. I don't know why Nevill didn't get the gun off her, but perhaps she was pointing the gun at herself so he didn't want to risk it.

I find it easy to picture Sheila keeping Nevill away from her by pointing a gun at him ...

But it is a good point - she may have been threatening herself with the gun ....

Maybe Nevill did not think it would escalate ....

He thought it was obviously time for Sheila to be sectioned back to hospital ...

He thought that by phoning Jeremy that Jeremy would phone the hospital to come and collect her ...

He probably did not want Sheila realising that the hospital would be on it's way to take her back ...

But even the call to Jeremy was enough to trigger Sheila to escalate things ...

[Kaldin]

I find it easy to picture Sheila keeping Nevill away from her by pointing a gun at him ...

But it is a good point - she may have been threatening herself with the gun ....

Maybe Nevill did not think it would escalate ....

He thought it was obviously time for Sheila to be sectioned back to hospital ...

He thought that by phoning Jeremy that Jeremy would phone the hospital to come and collect her ...

He probably did not want Sheila realising that the hospital would be on it's way to take her back ...

But even the call to Jeremy was enough to trigger Sheila to escalate things ...

If Nevill really did phone Jeremy, I think he must have assumed that it would not escalate into Sheila shooting everyone. I think Jeremy said his father sounded afraid, but was he afraid of Sheila or afraid for Sheila?

I'll just clarify that I'm not certain the phone call took place at all though.

[Adam]

Firsr 11 bullets:

Daniel - 1 bullet. 

Nicholas - 1 bullet

June - 5 bullets. 

Nevill - 4 bullets. 

Kitchen fight/reload. 


Second 11 bullets

Nevill 4 bullets. 

Sheila 1 bullet. 

Daniel 4 bullets. 

Nicolas 2 bullets. 
 

Reload of 3 bullets.


Final 3 bullets:

Sheila 1 bullet.  

June 2 bullets. 

The final 3 bullets were after Bamber realised Sheila was still alive & June had moved. 

                    -                  ------------------

This was of course after Bamber had -

Rang Julie at 10pm

Cycled to WHF on June's bike he had just taken.

Climbed through the bathroom using the hacksaw blade found by the window.

Picked up a rifle he said he had loaded 5 hours earlier. 

[Adam]

Another option is -

First 8 bullets

Nicholas & Daniel.

Reload.


Next 9 bullets

June 5 bullets

Nevill 4 bullets

Kitchen fight.


Next 8 bullets

Nevill 4 bullets.

Sheila 2 bullets.

June 2 bullets.

[Adam]

These 2 scenarios are on the assumption Bamber was telling the truth when he told Julie the twins were shot first.

Otherwise he entered the main bedroom first with 9 bullets.

[Kaldin]

Adam, you've said all this on your own thread.

[lookout]

So in the time between Nevill had rang Jeremy,Nevill would have still been alive when EP arrived at WHF ?

[Kaldin]

So in the time between Nevill had rang Jeremy,Nevill would have still been alive when EP arrived at WHF ?

The police arrived at about 3.48, so there was a window of around 35-40 minutes when the shooting took place.

[Adam]

Adam, you've said all this on your own thread.

I know. Now I am responding to Sherlock's thread.

[Adam]

In my opinion it must have all started in the kitchen.

We can be sure Sheila had fired no shots before Nevill rang Jeremy.

We can be sure Nevill would not have phoned Jeremy like that if Sheila was going crazy with a gun upstairs.

Sheila must have been downstairs when Nevill phoned Jeremy.

The abruptness of the call suggests something bought it to a sudden end.

The call triggered Sheila to either :

a) cut the phone call off (maybe using the end of the rifle) and march Nevill upstairs to the bedroom at gunpoint ....

b) start walking upstairs meaning Nevill had to quickly end the call to follow her upstairs to the bedroom ...

Either way when they get to the bedroom Sheila started shooting Nevill and June ...

An injured Nevill made his way back downstairs to get out of Sheila's way.

Sheila easily finished off a badly injured and weakened Nevill in the kitchen ...

Sheila finished off the murders and shot herself ...

'March Nevill upstairs'. I don't think so.

Sheila was in the kitchen when Nevill phoned Bamber. What was she doing in the kitchen that was 'crazy' ?

I agree Nevill's phone call was abrupt - 8 or 11 words & 2 or 4 seconds.

Sheila cut Nevill's phone call off. And still he did nothing although she came within inches of him.

If Nevill was right behind Sheila as she entered the main bedroom, please explain the 9 bullets prior to Nevill running downstairs.

[Kaldin]

I don't think Nevill was marched upstairs, and I don't think that Sheila cut off the phone call - the phone line was still open. If it happened, I think that Sheila went upstairs and Nevill quickly put the phone on the side and went upstairs himself.

[Steve_uk]

But why telephone Jeremy at all, when he had been the source of grief for the preceding months (if not years) of Nevill's life?

[guest2181]

But why telephone Jeremy at all, when he had been the source of grief for the preceding months (if not years) of Nevill's life?

Without first hand knowledge of the family dynamics and relationships involved, then it's difficult to know whether Neville would choose to contact JB to come and solve the crisis.

It 'sounds' dubious to me though, I can't make much sense of it.