A New Approach

[David1819]

An investigative author like Wilkes will also speak to people who were in court when MM testified. He would have about 30 people to chose from.

If it is not from the transcript then it is not a primary source. It is not Mary Mugfords testimony. We can also deduce that the chapter on Jeremy's cross examination is also not based on a primary source since there is no surviving transcript of it to go on.

I recommend you stop reading that book and go by the documents posted on this forum.

[Jane]

Yes I thought we seek out from others what we lack in ourselves. I'm not sure if this alleged deficiency lasts into middle age, however. Whatever Julie was she was a grafter, and what 20-year-old is not entitled to fall in love, one might ask?

Hmm. Perhaps I should have used a jigsaw with a missing piece as my analogy. If the relationship is a healthy one, I see no reason why it shouldn't last into middle age and beyond. For many reasons, a toxic one is less likely to stay the course. It must have been a hell of a learning curve for Julie -I'm not certain she could have come this far without some sort of therapeutic intervention- but I get the impression that she may have seen, all her life, that there's no such thing as a free lunch, other, perhaps in dreams or fantasies. 20 is horribly young to learn that being in love is not all it's cracked up to be.

[Caroline]

I suspect Jackie may have mis-typed her post and meant to say "I do not know..etc".  I believe Jeremy in fact got on well with Mary Mugford and helped her in a way which caused her to be grateful to him.

That's the way I understood it too - why would Jeremy say they didn't get on?

[JackieD]

Hmm. Perhaps I should have used a jigsaw with a missing piece as my analogy. If the relationship is a healthy one, I see no reason why it shouldn't last into middle age and beyond. For many reasons, a toxic one is less likely to stay the course. It must have been a hell of a learning curve for Julie -I'm not certain she could have come this far without some sort of therapeutic intervention- but I get the impression that she may have seen, all her life, that there's no such thing as a free lunch, other, perhaps in dreams or fantasies. 20 is horribly young to learn that being in love is not all it's cracked up to be.

How many people on this forum believe being 20 is an excuse for Mugfords vile behaviour mwhy don't you make a list
How do you think Mugford would come across in a documentary focused on her
It doesn't wash
She was old enough to be married
She was old enough to vote
She was old enough to drive
She was old enough to have sex
And she was old enough to know exactly what she was doing
If the two 10 year old boys who murdered James bulger were held responsible so should she

She will be famous one day for sure

[Adam]

If it is not from the transcript then it is not a primary source. It is not Mary Mugfords testimony. We can also deduce that the chapter on Jeremy's cross examination is also not based on a primary source since there is no surviving transcript of it to go on.

I recommend you stop reading that book and go by the documents posted on this forum.

  I'll decide what to use as a source.

Just as you do when quoting CAL's book.

Feel free to use another source on what Mary Mugford testified.

[Caroline]

How many people on this forum believe being 20 is an excuse for Mugfords vile behaviour mwhy don't you make a list
How do you think Mugford would come across in a documentary focused on her
It doesn't wash
She was old enough to be married
She was old enough to vote
She was old enough to drive
She was old enough to have sex
And she was old enough to know exactly what she was doing
If the two 10 year old boys who murdered James bulger were held responsible so should she

She will be famous one day for sure

Why would Jeremy tell you he didn't get on with Mary Mugford?

[Jane]

How many people on this forum believe being 20 is an excuse for Mugfords vile behaviour mwhy don't you make a list
How do you think Mugford would come across in a documentary focused on her
It doesn't wash
She was old enough to be married
She was old enough to vote
She was old enough to drive
She was old enough to have sex
And she was old enough to know exactly what she was doing
If the two 10 year old boys who murdered James bulger were held responsible so should she

She will be famous one day for sure

Those who understand that searching for reasons for someone's actions isn't condoning them, but certainly not those who speak of the perpetrator of one of the most evil crimes in history, in terms reminiscent of a love-sick teenager -"gorgeous, fit boy"?



How Julie would come across, in a documentary, would depend heavily on the bias of who's behind it, ie, whether they're approaching it from a position of fairness, OR whether they're simply using it as an excuse to do a character assassination.

You state:-
Julie was old enough to marry. Since when were 16 year olds renown for having common sense?
Julie was old enough to vote. SO? What have politics to do with emotions?
Julie was old enough to drive. What's that got to do with anything?
Julie was old enough to have sex -yeah, that one always hits the spot, doesn't it? 11/12/13 year olds have sex.
Julie was old enough to know what she was doing. So are you, but it doesn't prevent you from doing it, in a cause which is probably no closer to your heart, than it was to Julie's. Remember her words, do you? "I was very much in love with him. I'd hoped to marry him".
Your extreme bias screams at us when you compare Julie with two children who took pleasure in torturing another child -a toddler.

[nugnug]

I'll decide what to use as a source.

Just as you do when quoting CAL's book.

Feel free to use another source on what Mary Mugford testified.

considring you dont actully know what the word means id suggest you stop using it.

[Caroline]

considring you dont actully know what the word means id suggest you stop using it.

Books are legitimate sources of information.

[David1819]

Books are legitimate sources of information.

I have book that claims Hitler escaped and lived in Argentina till the 1970s. It even includes a picture of his house!

Guess it must be true then.

[JackieD]

Those who understand that searching for reasons for someone's actions isn't condoning them, but certainly not those who speak of the perpetrator of one of the most evil crimes in history, in terms reminiscent of a love-sick teenager -"gorgeous, fit boy"?



How Julie would come across, in a documentary, would depend heavily on the bias of who's behind it, ie, whether they're approaching it from a position of fairness, OR whether they're simply using it as an excuse to do a character assassination.

You state:-
Julie was old enough to marry. Since when were 16 year olds renown for having common sense?
Julie was old enough to vote. SO? What have politics to do with emotions?
Julie was old enough to drive. What's that got to do with anything?
Julie was old enough to have sex -yeah, that one always hits the spot, doesn't it? 11/12/13 year olds have sex.
Julie was old enough to know what she was doing. So are you, but it doesn't prevent you from doing it, in a cause which is probably no closer to your heart, than it was to Julie's. Remember her words, do you? "I was very much in love with him. I'd hoped to marry him".
Your extreme bias screams at us when you compare Julie with two children who took pleasure in torturing another child -a toddler.

I would be more than happy if the documentary/ film on Julie Mugford was just based on pure facts
 Just a programme completely focused on her and using her statements and other statements from people who knew her

[Steve_uk]

I would be more than happy if the documentary/ film on Julie Mugford was just based on pure facts
 Just a programme completely focused on her and using her statements and other statements from people who knew her

None of her friends at the time have spoken badly of her, though a co-worker of Jeremy's, Timothy Ernest, didn't like her, apparently.

[Caroline]

I have book that claims Hitler escaped and lived in Argentina till the 1970s. It even includes a picture of his house!

Guess it must be true then.

I have read some forensic books on blood splatter analysis. If I can find the names il let you know

4-5% of gunshot suicides have multiple shots

In Vincent J.M. Di Maio book Gunshot Wounds - Practical Aspects Of Firearms Ballistics & Forensic Technique. I quote

Suicides in which multiple gunshot wounds are present are uncommon, but
not rare. These wounds may involve only one area, e.g., the head, or multiple
areas, such as the head and chest. Multiple gunshot wounds confined exclusively
to the head are the least common, whereas those of the chest are the
most common. A lack of knowledge of anatomy, flinching at the time the
trigger is pulled, defective ammunition, ammunition of the wrong caliber,
or just missing a vital organ, account for such multiple wounds.Occasionally,
individuals have shot themselves simultaneously in the head with two different
weapon

I am not sick if you cant handle crime scene photos why get involved in true crime?

yes but .22 calibre is very low not high. I found similar claims in other forensic books about relation to calibre, barrel length and backsplatter that you criticised me for just making up. They first done some experiments in 1977 on this but I cannot find more information it 

The link I provided is one on googlebooks. Googlebooks brings me up a limited PDF of the Book. does it really matter? what difference does it make

Yeah, books! Who would ever quote them! 

[Adam]

David has also been quoting CAL's book recently. Although complained yesterday when I quoted Wilkes's book.

A book is a good source & certainly better than no source. 

Nugs never provides sources  but today made a bizarre claim I didn't know what a source is.

[nugnug]

David has also been quoting CAL's book recently. Although complained yesterday when I quoted Wilkes's book.

A book is a good source & certainly better than no source. 

Nugs never provides sources  but today made a bizarre claim I didn't know what a source was.

if you actually knew what a source was you would know I do provide them when I need to.