could jermy have walked to whf.

[Steve_uk]

Hi steve It is my understanding that both Jeremy and Sheila had disagreements with their parents suppose most of us have at some stage of our lives.  Jeremy had no control over the situation if Sheila did murder her family and he was at home sleeping in his bed nobody has proof this was not true.  The shootings IMO were random shots made by a shooter not too familiar with guns but they knew the basics.  Sheila was only in the will for £10,000 and twins were not mentioned so if Jeremy was the person committing the murders he did not need to kill them all just his Mum and Dad all so sad.

The point was that Jeremy was three miles away, so within walking distance for the subject of this thread. The telephone call, though unlikely, cannot be proved either way. For Sheila to have shot four people I would expect more than one solitary print on the stock of the gun.

As for the wills, the only way Jeremy would inherit immediately (as he was set to do) was for the deaths to occur as they did. Nevill had left the farm to Jeremy that is true, though the buildings themselves belonged to the trustees. He had left the bulk of his estate to his wife, and only on mercurial June's demise was Jeremy likely to inherit, though a reduced estate being shared with Sheila, not to mention possible future private hospital fees and private education for her boys.

[susan]

The point was that Jeremy was three miles away, so within walking distance for the subject of this thread. The telephone call, though unlikely, cannot be proved either way. For Sheila to have shot four people I would expect more than one solitary print on the stock of the gun.

As for the wills, the only way Jeremy would inherit immediately (as he was set to do) was for the deaths to occur as they did. Nevill had left the farm to Jeremy that is true, though the buildings themselves belonged to the trustees. He had left the bulk of his estate to his wife, and only on mercurial June's demise was Jeremy likely to inherit, though a reduced estate being shared with Sheila, not to mention possible future private hospital fees and private education for her boys.

steve I did not know all about what would happen I understand the will left everything to JB apart from £10.000 which went to Sheila.  Have you seen the will? if so where can I access this info.  Thanks steve

[JackieD]

Getting back to the title of this thread-Jackie do you accept:

1) Jeremy has no convincing alibi for the crime.

2) He had disagreements with both parents before the crimes, parents he now eulogizes to those who will listen.

3) He was familiar with firearms in a way Sheila wasn't.

4) He had a money motive in all five deaths.

He didn't need an alibi
no more arguments than in any normal family
he knew about firearms but Ngb has already quoted that SC could easily use the rifle which was used in the murders
Jeremy didnt have a motive as he was going to get the money anyway

Your arguments as usual are weak

[Steve_uk]

steve I did not know all about what would happen I understand the will left everything to JB apart from £10.000 which went to Sheila.  Have you seen the will? if so where can I access this info.  Thanks steve

I don't know whether the wills are online. The amounts are not crystal clear in the books. In Chapter 27 of Blood Relations we have the Crown's case at trial presented by Anthony Arlidge QC, that Jeremy murdered for an estate worth £436,000 in 1985 money. In Wikipedia the amounts are £380,000 for Nevill's estate (worth over £1million in 2016) and £230,000 for June (worth £608,000 in 2016). In Carol Ann Lee's book we are told June left Sheila a field within the Osea Road complex (Jeremy similarly would inherit 48 acres of land adjoining Little Rentners Farm), but I can't see how she wouldn't pass some of her shares onto her daughter and not leave her out entirely. I think the £10,000 was mentioned in the hospital car park at St. Andrew's in 1982 during her incarceration , where she had a conversation with Robert Boutflour and was meant to clear the mortgage for Moreshead Mansions if I've understood this correctly.

 Nevill had left the Farm to Jeremy, and I assume this was the major asset in N&J Bamber Ltd, which Wikipedia tells us is valued at £400,000 (£1,057,000 at 2016 prices). If I'm correct that this would go exclusively to Jeremy then Nevill's cash was willed to June. Nevill had also inherited Clifton House from his mother, Granny Bamber, in Guildford, and although there was a bank loan on the property there would be a 50% share coming from that once it had been converted into flats and they were sold.

[maggie]

Sorry Maggie I wasn't haven't a go at you just pointing out a fact that Jeremy was careful with his money

I didn't think you were Jackie.

[Adam]

With the wills -

June was going to give £10,000 to unspecified friends & relatives.

June would inherit everything from Nevill if he died first.

June was giving Bamber her shares of the caravan park. 

June was giving Sheila the freehold of the caravan park.   
 
June was considering giving the twins a larger slice of her will as testified by MM & not refuted by Bamber.

June wanted to give more or all of her will to the church.

Bamber agreed June may have indicated that she was going to allocate all of her will to the church. But believed June would not have forgotten him completely.
 
June was considering disinheriting Bamber after the caravan break in. According to 'Countdown to Murder'.

[Adam]

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8363.msg398163.html#msg398163

[David1819]

With the wills -

June was going to give £10,000 to unspecified friends & relatives.

June would inherit everything from Nevill if he died first.

June was giving Bamber her shares of the caravan park. 

June was giving Sheila the freehold of the caravan park.   
 
June was considering giving the twins a larger slice of her will as testified by MM & not refuted by Bamber.

June wanted to give more or all of her will to the church
 
June was considering disinheriting Bamber after the caravan break in. According to 'Countdown to Murder'.

Countdown to murder is so bad it's a parody.

[Adam]

With the wills -

June was going to give £10,000 to unspecified friends & relatives.

June would inherit everything from Nevill if he died first.

June was giving Bamber her shares of the caravan park. 

June was giving Sheila the freehold of the caravan park.   
 
June was considering giving the twins a larger slice of her will as testified by MM & not refuted by Bamber.

June wanted to give more or all of her will to the church.

Bamber agreed June may have indicated that she was going to allocate all of her will to the church. But believed June would not have forgotten him completely.
 
June was considering disinheriting Bamber after the caravan break in. According to 'Countdown to Murder'.

It does seem that Bamber was in a no win situation with the wills. On the assumption he wanted to be a play boy.

Nevill may have died in 15 years. As stated he would have left everything to June.

June may have died 5 years after Nevill & left everything to unspecified friends & relatives, the church, the twins & Sheila. There may have been some left for a now 44 year old Bamber. If June had not totally disinherited him by then.

Bamber said June's will gave him the option of buying Sheila's half of the will from her. Assuming he had the substantial finances & Sheila or June had not by then given that to the now grown up twins.

[maggie]

I have locked this thread while I edit and clean it u as it has completely lost it's way and is far off topic.  Cheers

Have split the above thread into two, other tread title is covering the adoption and parenting arguments.   
Hope we ( and this includes me) can stay on subject.    Cheers

[lebaleb]

With the wills -

June was going to give £10,000 to unspecified friends & relatives.

June would inherit everything from Nevill if he died first.

June was giving Bamber her shares of the caravan park. 

June was giving Sheila the freehold of the caravan park.   
 
June was considering giving the twins a larger slice of her will as testified by MM & not refuted by Bamber.

June wanted to give more or all of her will to the church.

Bamber agreed June may have indicated that she was going to allocate all of her will to the church. But believed June would not have forgotten him completely.
 
June was considering disinheriting Bamber after the caravan break in. According to 'Countdown to Murder'.

As far as I am aware, correct me if I'm wrong, until after the murders, nobody knew that it was JM and Jeremy who stole the money.

[Adam]

As far as I am aware, correct me if I'm wrong, until after the murders, nobody knew that it was JM and Jeremy who stole the money.

The 'Countdown to murders' says otherwise. As said by Barbara Wilson I believe.

Didn't RB say 'we all know who that was' after the break in.

It wouldn't be hard to work out it was Bamber. He said himself he 'would be the number one suspect but no one would be able to prove it'.

There was no reason why random burglars would target a caravan office as there may be nothing of any value in there. Or it will be locked in a safe.

If Bamber did it to highlight security problems, as he said, then he would have told Nevill & June straight away. So they would know about the apparent security problems.

Bit surprised Nevill & June let him spend all the money after he told them. Maybe he told them after he had spent all the money. 

[David1819]

As far as I am aware, correct me if I'm wrong, until after the murders, nobody knew that it was JM and Jeremy who stole the money.

That is correct.

[Adam]

Not sure why Bamber would stage the scene to make it look like a caravan break in, if he just wanted to highlight security problems. Seems to be going beyond the call of duty.

A break in by burglars would be via a smashed window or door. I understand Bamber used an inside key he could get access to via the letterbox. Burglars would not know about this key.

[maggie]

The 'Countdown to murders' says otherwise. As said by Barbara Wilson I believe.

Didn't RB say 'we all know who that was' after the break in.

It wouldn't be hard to work out it was Bamber. He said himself he 'would be the number one suspect but no one would be able to prove it'.

There was no reason why random burglars would target a caravan office as there may be nothing of any value in there. Or it will be locked in a safe.

If Bamber did it to highlight security problems, as he said, then he would have told Nevill & June straight away. So they would know about the apparent security problems.

Bit surprised Nevill & June let him spend all the money after he told them. Maybe he told them after he had spent all the money.

If June and Nevill let him spend the money it was their choice and not your business.   If burglars never burgled anywhere unless the money was left outside the door for them there'd be no burglaries.  I would imagine if security was poor and it was dark, quiet and accessible it was as much open to burglary as much as anywhere else but this is all irrelevant as we know it was JB.