Author Topic: could jermy have walked to whf.  (Read 34899 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Jan

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 10318
Re: could jermy have walked to whf.
« Reply #210 on: July 30, 2017, 02:38:PM »
Wasn't it ?

Do you think Mary Mugford lied under oath ?

To support her daughter because if she was caught telling lies she would be in jail ?

Why would Barbara lie in her first statement?


And even Anne never said that Jeremy hated or never spoke to his mother ?

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 44313
Re: could jermy have walked to whf.
« Reply #211 on: July 30, 2017, 02:40:PM »
To support her daughter because if she was caught telling lies she would be in jail ?

Why would Barbara lie in her first statement?


And even Anne never said that Jeremy hated or never spoke to his mother ?

Ok. So Mary Mugford lied under oath as well.

Why did Bamber agree with MM's testimony when testifying ?
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Jan

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 10318
Re: could jermy have walked to whf.
« Reply #212 on: July 30, 2017, 02:50:PM »
Ok. So Mary Mugford lied under oath as well.

Why did Bamber agree with MM's testimony when testifying ?


Source that Jeremy said he never spoke to his mother in the days leading up to the murder ? Source that he said he hated his mother ?


He said they had their ups and downs but things had improved , just like any other normal family .

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 44313
Re: could jermy have walked to whf.
« Reply #213 on: July 30, 2017, 02:53:PM »

Source that Jeremy said he never spoke to his mother in the days leading up to the murder ? Source that he said he hated his mother ?


He said they had their ups and downs but things had improved , just like any other normal family .

I have given you a source. Mary Mugford's testimony.

But you have said she was lying to protect Julie, who also said Bamber had a poor relationship with June.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 44313
Re: could jermy have walked to whf.
« Reply #214 on: July 30, 2017, 02:55:PM »
Bamber's court testimony

He said he was experienced with guns. And had no difficulty using the murder weapon. 

Sheila had limited experience with guns.  

There were fostering conversations on the night. Sheila was silent and not paying attention. 

He denied cycling to WHF to commit the massacre. 

He had been unfair in using Julie for emotional support and bringing her to WHF on the massacre morning. 

His relationship with June was poor. They would antagonise each other. There was a lack of understanding. 

When his phone was answered 'it was dad'. Jeremy started crying. 

He said the call to Chelmsford police station lasted 5 minutes. 

He said he rang Julie at 3am for 'a friendly ear'. 

He drove so slowly to WHF as he did not want to arrive  before the police. 

He said he knew how to get in and out of the bathroom window at WHF. 

He said he saw Sheila punch the twins. Once. 

He robbed the caravan site to show security problems. But admitted he should not have spent the money. He did so out of greed. 

He agreed with Mary Mugfords testimony about his poor relationship with June. 

He said James Richards and everyone lied about him. Because of the way the media had portrayed him. 

He liked the good things in life. And had read the wills which tied him to the farm to inherit. 

He should not have left the gun lying around and it would have taken seconds to put away. He had been 'lackadaisical' saying 'I didn't know what was going to happen, did I ?'. 

Accused of lying he said 'that is what you have to establish'. 

As more pressure was put on, his answers became shorter - don't know, can't pin myself, I can't answer. 

It did not enter his head to dial 999. 

The relationship with Julie had been in decline since Xmas 84. He had been unfaithful before, which Julie knew about. He ended the relationship in a restaraunt. 

He had spent freely after the massacre and drank champagne on the funeral evening.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Jan

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 10318
Re: could jermy have walked to whf.
« Reply #215 on: July 30, 2017, 02:57:PM »
I have given you a source. Mary Mugford's testimony.

But you have said she was lying to protect Julie, who also said Bamber had a poor relationship with June.


You asked a question I said it could have been the reason. That is not the same as saying she was lying under oath .

Stop twisting words

Offline Jan

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 10318
Re: could jermy have walked to whf.
« Reply #216 on: July 30, 2017, 02:58:PM »
A poor relationship at times is not the same as the accusation you repeated.

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 44313
Re: could jermy have walked to whf.
« Reply #217 on: July 30, 2017, 03:13:PM »
Have you got a source that Sheila smoked cigars ? Not that it makes any difference. Of course a cigar wouldn't make those marks. Bamber & the COA say it is from the rifle.

But feel free to disagree.

Hopefully someone will provide this source. Which I asked Jan for earlier.

I appreciate posters don't read every post, rather than having 'goldfish' memories.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Jan

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 10318
Re: could jermy have walked to whf.
« Reply #218 on: July 30, 2017, 03:17:PM »
Hopefully someone will provide this source. Which I asked Jan for earlier.

I appreciate posters don't read every post, rather than having 'goldfish' memories.

Cigarillos

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 44313
Re: could jermy have walked to whf.
« Reply #219 on: July 30, 2017, 03:19:PM »
Fine . Do that then .

It seems that you're going to continue being abusive and try to order me about.

I don't know why I provoke such aggression from you. If you're fire fighting was strong, you would be content to just discuss the case. As I do.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Jan

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 10318
Re: could jermy have walked to whf.
« Reply #220 on: July 30, 2017, 03:21:PM »
It seems that you're going to continue being abusive and try to order me about.

I don't know why I provoke such aggression from you. If you're fire fighting was strong, you would be content to just discuss the case. As I do.
[/quote

Cigarillos

Offline Jan

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 10318
Re: could jermy have walked to whf.
« Reply #221 on: July 30, 2017, 04:19:PM »
The ORIGINAL source was Sheila's social worker and repeated in the book by carol anne lee .

Offline Jane

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 33773
Re: could jermy have walked to whf.
« Reply #222 on: July 30, 2017, 04:48:PM »
She obviously adored him

"Obviously adored him"? Prove it. It'll take much more than the amount of money spent on him, believe me.

Offline Jan

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 10318
Re: could jermy have walked to whf.
« Reply #223 on: July 30, 2017, 05:00:PM »
"Obviously adored him"? Prove it. It'll take much more than the amount of money spent on him, believe me.

Her letter to be opened in the event of her death ?


She may have loved them both in her own way ?


She had problems of her own that were recorded and her struggle with that and her religion may explain her attitude to parenting . It can't have been easy .

Offline Jane

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 33773
Re: could jermy have walked to whf.
« Reply #224 on: July 30, 2017, 05:16:PM »
Her letter to be opened in the event of her death ?


She may have loved them both in her own way ?


She had problems of her own that were recorded and her struggle with that and her religion may explain her attitude to parenting . It can't have been easy .

Rarely does a parent admit to not loving or liking it's child. It's not something they'd admit in a million years, indeed they would probably go the other way and heap "things" on the child, signalling generosity to the child and the world. Likewise, it's highly unlikely that a child, of any age, could bring itself to utter words which told the world it's parent didn't love it -it would be far too shameful a thing to admit- instead it would take the guilt for it on it's own shoulders.