Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm

[Jane]

So now I am xxxxxxxxxx as well . Your posts are getting extremely personal .

 
 Unless they had been asked and said no , you can't assume things either .

How do you know they weren't? The bottom line remains, SURELY, why go to the expense of both man power and time by going out of county to look for and transport possible 'candidates' when there was one who was willing right there on the doorstep. I'm not certain WHO it is you're lumping blame on here. Is it Julie, for offering? Is it everyone concerned OTHER than Julie for not offering, OR is it the police because you think they were to lazy to widen their search?

[Roch]

No you misunderstood me . I am not that stupid 

I meant offer an amnesty to anyone who would come forward with information on the case. So if there was an officer who had been there and knew something that would prove his innocence he would retain his pension etc and not be prosecuted .

I said this years ago - but apparently an amnesty was offered behind the scenes during COLP.. There were some disciplinary matters though. However if COLP or their bosses chose not to officially disclose the whole of what was discovered - those officers who coughed-up were arguably absolved (in their own minds). This might be one reason why there is a reluctance to speak out further. To expose EP is effectively to expose COLP and expose the integrity of such enquiries.

[guest7363]

No you misunderstood me . I am not that stupid 

I meant offer an amnesty to anyone who would come forward with information on the case. So if there was an officer who had been there and knew something that would prove his innocence he would retain his pension etc and not be prosecuted .

I never said you was, it just came across that way.  I don't agree with you, if anyone has been corrupt they should be prosecuted, a snitch coming forward now after a man has spent this long in prison, nah.

[Jane]

I never said you was, it just came across that way.  I don't agree with you, if anyone has been corrupt they should be prosecuted, a snitch coming forward now after a man has spent this long in prison nah.

Oh, I totally agree, Justice. Supporters between them have created a cast, of conspirators, of thousands. The more who get added the more difficult it becomes for anyone to snitch. There'd be way too much -and too many- involved. As for the snitch(es) being assured of the safety of their pensions, I'd think most, by now wouldn't be TOO concerned about that. There're all, by now, likely to be mid to late 70's.

[Roch]

Oh, I totally agree, Justice. Supporters between them have created a cast, of conspirators, of thousands.

No they haven't. Not at all. It was explained very well on a recent thread.

Also, after a certain point in proceedings, it becomes messy and political. It is easier to stonewall and claim 'all subsequent enquiries and appeals have not uncovered any evidence that could undermine the safety of Mr Bamber's conviction' - than to face and expose something distasteful and uncomfortable.

[guest7363]

Oh, I totally agree, Justice. Supporters between them have created a cast, of conspirators, of thousands. The more who get added the more difficult it becomes for anyone to snitch. There'd be way too much -and too many- involved. As for the snitch(es) being assured of the safety of their pensions, I'd think most, by now wouldn't be TOO concerned about that. There're all, by now, likely to be mid to late 70's.

Its seems Bamber let out at all costs then, amnesty to all and while we're at it let's hide their identity so they don't face a public backlash.

[Jane]

No they haven't. Not at all. It was explained very well on a recent thread.

Also, after a certain point in proceedings, it becomes messy and political. It is easier to stonewall and claim 'all subsequent enquiries and appeals have not uncovered any evidence that could undermine the safety of Mr Bamber's conviction' - than to face and expose something distasteful and uncomfortable.

From where I'm sitting, YES, they have! For everyone whose been labeled 'corrupt', others, necessarily, have been dragged in, meaning that, by now, there's an entire platoon of co-conspirators. I wonder how it was explained to the second doctor why he was only required to certify one death when all the others had been certified and why there is no WS from that doctor, and I wonder how the first doctor's WS was accepted as correct after he'd allegedly not seen that the victim was still alive? That's just ONE example. No one has ever suggested that the inquiry was anything more than a mess, but there are MILES of possibilities between a messed up inquiry and a gross conspiracy, NONE of it making Jeremy innocent but MUCH of it being their own fault that questions have been raised.

[guest7363]

From where I'm sitting, YES, they have! For everyone whose been labeled 'corrupt', others, necessarily, have been dragged in, meaning that, by now, there's an entire platoon of co-conspirators. I wonder how it was explained to the second doctor why he was only required to certify one death when all the others had been certified and why there is no WS from that doctor, and I wonder how the first doctor's WS was accepted as correct after he'd allegedly not seen that the victim was still alive? That's just ONE example. No one has ever suggested that the inquiry was anything more than a mess, but there are MILES of possibilities between a messed up inquiry and a gross conspiracy, NONE of it making Jeremy innocent but MUCH of it being their own fault that questions have been raised.

I think what has happened, like you said, the police enquiry was not up to scratch, it did contain a lot of inaccuracies, it wasn't up to scratch because of many reasons which have been covered, everyone knows this, so it's this that is used, they then go by reports which  may contain errors, contradictions and ambiguities, and those wishing to find evidence of a cover-up will focus on such inconsistencies to bolster their claims. What happens then (not everyone) People who endorse conspiracy theories may be more likely to engage in conspiratorial behaviors themselves, by this I mean spreading rumours, accusing without proof etc.  This isn't aimed at everyone because some caught up in the idea that there is a conspiracy don't realise they are. 

[Jon2]

I think what has happened, like you said, the police enquiry was not up to scratch, it did contain a lot of inaccuracies, it wasn't up to scratch because of many reasons which have been covered, everyone knows this, so it's this that is used, they then go by reports which  may contain errors, contradictions and ambiguities, and those wishing to find evidence of a cover-up will focus on such inconsistencies to bolster their claims. What happens then (not everyone) People who endorse conspiracy theories may be more likely to engage in conspiratorial behaviors themselves, by this I mean spreading rumours, accusing without proof etc.  This isn't aimed at everyone because some caught up in the idea that there is a conspiracy don't realise they are.

Do you believe there was a conspiracy at Orgreave ?

[guest7363]

Do you believe there was a conspiracy at Orgreave ?

I don't think it's believing, it happened.

The South Yorkshire police and crime commissioner, Dr Alan Billings, shared her concern. He said: “The former miners and their families deserved to know the truth about what happened that day. I am therefore shocked and dismayed by this decision. The government have marched the Campaign for Truth and Justice to the top of the hill only to march them down again.”

He said he was unconvinced by the reasons given for refusing an investigation: “No one has ever suggested that the events of Orgreave were comparable in every respect to the disaster at Hillsborough. But the former miners and the former mining communities in South Yorkshire deserve an explanation as to what happened on that day, and where Orgreave fits in the wider story of the miners’ strike. I believe the government has shied away from agreeing an inquiry because of those wider issues.”

Andy Burnham, the former shadow home secretary who campaigned for an inquiry into both Orgreave and Hillsborough, said the Independent Police Complaints Commission had found evidence of perjury and perversion of the course of justice, and that new evidence had recently been put forward of orchestrated police violence and manufactured court statements. “This establishment stitch-up is a purely political act.”

[guest7363]

Do you believe there was a conspiracy at Orgreave ?

By the way, I'm not suggesting I'm whiter than white, I'm sometimes as bad as anyone else, but I do think there is a line in which one can cross, to claim what you would like to claim, if that makes sense.

[Caroline]

No you misunderstood me . I am not that stupid 

I meant offer an amnesty to anyone who would come forward with information on the case. So if there was an officer who had been there and knew something that would prove his innocence he would retain his pension etc and not be prosecuted .

If someone came forward with information about police corruption, why would he/she be prosecuted and lose thier pension? It's not a crime to report corruption.

[Jan]

Its seems Bamber let out at all costs then, amnesty to all and while we're at it let's hide their identity so they don't face a public backlash.

I would prefer it not to be that way , but whistleblower protection has been offered in other circumstances and the public would be aware of the circumstances and Jeremy would be free.

all that would happen is the old adage " lessons have been learnt and all that rubbish anyway .

[Caroline]

I would prefer it not to be that way , but whistleblower protection has been offered in other circumstances and the public would be aware of the circumstances and Jeremy would be free.

all that would happen is the old adage " lessons have been learnt and all that rubbish anyway .

Most of the officers involved would be retired, I'm not sure why you think reporting corruption is a crime and that they could be prosecuted or lose their pension?

[JackieD]

You obviously support corrupt actions of the police and the CPS...

obviously