Author Topic: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm  (Read 129255 times)

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Offline JackieD

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #825 on: July 27, 2017, 01:25:PM »
Sheila Caffells death scene was staged by some of the most wicked, evil, senior Essex police detectives and police officers - the lot of them are 'scum of the earth'!!!


Some of them were also having fun up on the roof I believe
Julie Mugford the main prosecution witness was guilty of numerous crimes, 13 separate cheque frauds, robbery, and drug dealing and also making a deal with a national newspaper before trial that if she could convince a jury her ex boyfriend was guilty of five murders she would receive £25,000

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #826 on: July 27, 2017, 01:30:PM »
It gets worse, because at 8.44am, the police surgeon, Dr Craig, reports Sheila's body 'on the far side of the bed', with the rifle 'laying alongside her body',
What he actually says is,

On the other side of the bedroom and hidden from view from the door by the bed was the body of a young woman lying on her back, wearing a nightdress.  There was what I took to a .22 rifle lying ACROSS her body with the muzzle pointing up towards her head and the right hand lying loosely over the butt.  There was a quantity of DRIED blood which had come from her mouth and what appeared to be an entry wound from her throat.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1187.0;attach=6164
Meaning she had not just been layed in this position, the blood was dry, it wasn't running. Where was the quantity of blood from Sheila, on the floor, if she had layed on the bed after taking the first shot that severed her external jugular vein, the blood would have been on the bed, if she then took the second shot on the bed that would have instantly killed her, then layed on the floor, there would not have been the quantity of blood on the floor because her heart would stop pumping.

Offline Jan

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #827 on: July 27, 2017, 02:14:PM »
If someone came forward with information about police corruption, why would he/she be prosecuted and lose thier pension? It's not a crime to report corruption.

if they knew the truth at the time it would be perverting the course of justice.

Offline susan

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #828 on: July 27, 2017, 02:32:PM »
if they knew the truth at the time it would be perverting the course of justice.

Jan that is what I was thinking the only way this is likely to happen is if they were guaranteed not to be prosecuted for speaking out.

Offline Jan

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #829 on: July 27, 2017, 02:47:PM »
I said this years ago - but apparently an amnesty was offered behind the scenes during COLP.. There were some disciplinary matters though. However if COLP or their bosses chose not to officially disclose the whole of what was discovered - those officers who coughed-up were arguably absolved (in their own minds). This might be one reason why there is a reluctance to speak out further. To expose EP is effectively to expose COLP and expose the integrity of such enquiries.


that is interesting - I would have thought only the home office would have been to offer amnesty and would  they do that without the agreement of the possible person involved ? i.e Jeremy?

If there were disciplinary actions  why were they not made public ?



Offline Roch

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #830 on: July 27, 2017, 03:10:PM »

that is interesting - I would have thought only the home office would have been to offer amnesty and would  they do that without the agreement of the possible person involved ? i.e Jeremy?

If there were disciplinary actions  why were they not made public ?

Well you couldn't have an official amnesty because an official amnesty would by its nature be made public. I'm not sure whether there is any UK precedent for such a process.  It would in effect suggest very serious wrongdoing - publicly.

If you read the thread 'When a force investigates another force' - you will see it is claimed that the police stick by the police. Before an interview is officially recorded, there is likely to be an informal discussion between interviewers and the interviewee.  In other words it's a controlled environment or process. It's not an inquisition and interviewees are not necessarily blindsided.  It's been claimed elsewhere that COLP couldn't understand all of the skullduggery and lengths went to by EP in its execution. Hence the 'amnesty'. 

Perhaps in order for an enquiry to retain some sense of credibility, there has to be at least some disciplinary action.  Sacrificial lambs?
« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 03:12:PM by Roch »

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #831 on: July 27, 2017, 03:24:PM »
What he actually says is,

On the other side of the bedroom and hidden from view from the door by the bed was the body of a young woman lying on her back, wearing a nightdress.  There was what I took to a .22 rifle lying ACROSS her body with the muzzle pointing up towards her head and the right hand lying loosely over the butt.  There was a quantity of DRIED blood which had come from her mouth and what appeared to be an entry wound from her throat.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1187.0;attach=6164
Meaning she had not just been layed in this position, the blood was dry, it wasn't running. Where was the quantity of blood from Sheila, on the floor, if she had layed on the bed after taking the first shot that severed her external jugular vein, the blood would have been on the bed, if she then took the second shot on the bed that would have instantly killed her, then layed on the floor, there would not have been the quantity of blood on the floor because her heart would stop pumping.

It depends which version of Craig's witness statement you choose to rely upon, as to what he supposedly said! No-one truly knows if he even made one of the witness statements in his name! CPS gave authority for composite statements to be made by a police officer in the names of many witnesses without the named witnesses knowing anything about it! How dishonest and corrupt is that? In one of Craig's statements Sheila was laid on the far side of the bed, hidden from view behind the door with the rifle laying alongside! The officer who accompanied him also wrote this in his pocketbook entry! If Sheila's body had been on the floor at this time (8.44am) her body was in front of the door leading to the box room, not behind it! But with her body on the far side of the bed, she was almost entirely concealed from  behind the main bedroom doorway at the top of the main stairs! She had what appeared to be a wound to her neck, the blood appeared to have dried! Well, if you examine the vertically oriented blood trail from the lower wound you can see that it was dry - that is the dry blood to which Craig was referring to, she hadn't received the second shot beneath the chin by that stage (8.44am)! Furthermore, if her body was on the floor at this time, hidden from view by the door it would suggest that Craig entered the main bedroom via the box room and that he pronounced the two child victims as dead before he pronounced Sheila as being dead! Then after Craig pronounced Sheila dead, cops moved her body onto the bed next to the body of June Bamber who's body had also been on the floor by the door closest to the main stair, and cops moved her body onto the bed, and somebody placed the rifle in-between both bodies in time for Jones and Clark to witness this at about 9.10am! Then cops moved the two bodies back into the bedroom floor and staged their death scenes by 10am, in time for the second SOCO team to photograph them there under the pretense of the crime scene having remained undisturbed throughout!
« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 03:28:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Roch

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #832 on: July 27, 2017, 03:24:PM »
Jan that is what I was thinking the only way this is likely to happen is if they were guaranteed not to be prosecuted for speaking out.

Some of them may have already 'spoke out' behind the scenes. Therefore they may feel absolved of the responsibility.  In cooperating behind the scenes, they would have divulged info via the 'correct channels'.  If it's decided that their info will not be used or passed on or disclosed - then that decision would have been to some extent taken out of their hands.  I say to some extent - because if there was such an unofficial amnesty - their information and the proposed amnesty would have been like bargaining chips. So they would arguably have had some control in the matter.  In my mind, they are not absolved.  I think that no one person wants to be the person that takes responsibility. This is the problem.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 03:42:PM by Roch »

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #833 on: July 27, 2017, 03:47:PM »
It depends which version of Craig's witness statement you choose to rely upon, as to what he supposedly said! No-one truly knows if he even made one of the witness statements in his name! CPS gave authority for composite statements to be made by a police officer in the names of many witnesses without the named witnesses knowing anything about it! How dishonest and corrupt is that? In one of Craig's statements Sheila was laid on the far side of the bed, hidden from view behind the door with the rifle laying alongside! The officer who accompanied him also wrote this in his pocketbook entry! If Sheila's body had been on the floor at this time (8.44am) her body was in front of the door leading to the box room, not behind it! But with her body on the far side of the bed, she was almost entirely concealed from  behind the main bedroom doorway at the top of the main stairs! She had what appeared to be a wound to her neck, the blood appeared to have dried! Well, if you examine the vertically oriented blood trail from the lower wound you can see that it was dry - that is the dry blood to which Craig was referring to, she hadn't received the second shot beneath the chin by that stage (8.44am)! Furthermore, if her body was on the floor at this time, hidden from view by the door it would suggest that Craig entered the main bedroom via the box room and that he pronounced the two child victims as dead before he pronounced Sheila as being dead! Then after Craig pronounced Sheila dead, cops moved her body onto the bed next to the body of June Bamber who's body had also been on the floor by the door closest to the main stair, and cops moved her body onto the bed, and somebody placed the rifle in-between both bodies in time for Jones and Clark to witness this at about 9.10am! Then cops moved the two bodies back into the bedroom floor and staged their death scenes by 10am, in time for the second SOCO team to photograph them there under the pretense of the crime scene having remained undisturbed throughout!
What I am pointing out is, what dr Craig reports,   You say in your opening statement the police surgeon reports,   So your accepting his report.   

He says he is a registered medical practitioner, engaged in general practice at Maldon.  Where does it state he's a police surgeon?  Or does this add more weight to your story??

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #834 on: July 27, 2017, 03:48:PM »
It depends which version of Craig's witness statement you choose to rely upon, as to what he supposedly said! No-one truly knows if he even made one of the witness statements in his name! CPS gave authority for composite statements to be made by a police officer in the names of many witnesses without the named witnesses knowing anything about it! How dishonest and corrupt is that? In one of Craig's statements Sheila was laid on the far side of the bed, hidden from view behind the door with the rifle laying alongside! The officer who accompanied him also wrote this in his pocketbook entry! If Sheila's body had been on the floor at this time (8.44am) her body was in front of the door leading to the box room, not behind it! But with her body on the far side of the bed, she was almost entirely concealed from  behind the main bedroom doorway at the top of the main stairs! She had what appeared to be a wound to her neck, the blood appeared to have dried! Well, if you examine the vertically oriented blood trail from the lower wound you can see that it was dry - that is the dry blood to which Craig was referring to, she hadn't received the second shot beneath the chin by that stage (8.44am)! Furthermore, if her body was on the floor at this time, hidden from view by the door it would suggest that Craig entered the main bedroom via the box room and that he pronounced the two child victims as dead before he pronounced Sheila as being dead! Then after Craig pronounced Sheila dead, cops moved her body onto the bed next to the body of June Bamber who's body had also been on the floor by the door closest to the main stair, and cops moved her body onto the bed, and somebody placed the rifle in-between both bodies in time for Jones and Clark to witness this at about 9.10am! Then cops moved the two bodies back into the bedroom floor and staged their death scenes by 10am, in time for the second SOCO team to photograph them there under the pretense of the crime scene having remained undisturbed throughout!

On this version of Craig's witness statement he confirmed June Bamber dead by the door closest to the main stairs! Sheila's body was hidden from view by the door he was talking about by the bed! He would not have been able to see Sheila's body had it been laying on the bedroom floor at that stage by claiming the door obscured his view! The door could only have obscured his view had Sheila's body been laid on the far side of the bed, which was where Jones and Clark saw it  26 minutes later! I remember coming across this version of Dr Craigs witness statement after Ewen Smith visited him and he told Ewen that Sheila had only been shot once, and that when he certified her as being dead, she had only been shot once, and he had apparently made a mistake in pronouncing her as being dead! He told Ewen Smith that he was not inside the farmhouse when the second shot received by Sheila was discharged! In any event, this statement had a pencil line across it, which was part of the editing and retyping of composite witness statements made by one cop for many different witnesses! I have seen at least three different versions of Dr Craigs witness statement, no doubt there could be many more! He did not make all these witness statements himself!
« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 03:48:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline susan

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #835 on: July 27, 2017, 04:00:PM »
Some of them may have already 'spoke out' behind the scenes. Therefore they may feel absolved of the responsibility.  In cooperating behind the scenes, they would have divulged info via the 'correct channels'.  If it's decided that their info will not be used or passed on or disclosed - then that decision would have been to some extent taken out of their hands.  I say to some extent - because if there was such an unofficial amnesty - their information and the proposed amnesty would have been like bargaining chips. So they would arguably have had some control in the matter.  In my mind, they are not absolved.  I think that no one person wants to be the person that takes responsibility. This is the problem.

Roch I have wondered if any of the young officers saw what went on and would not dare to speak out to their superior officers but I am wondering if any of them have since confided in others on the QT.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #836 on: July 27, 2017, 04:18:PM »
What I am pointing out is, what dr Craig reports,   You say in your opening statement the police surgeon reports,   So your accepting his report.   

He says he is a registered medical practitioner, engaged in general practice at Maldon.  Where does it state he's a police surgeon?  Or does this add more weight to your story??

First things first. According to the contents of this version of Dr Craigs statement, he reports...

Secondly, my reference to him being the police surgeon, comes from the contents of a police radio message log, I believe which was timed at 7.42am, it reads something like, ' Can you contact the police surgeon, and the Coroner's officer regarding two bodies'..

Dr Craig arrived at the scene in the capacity of being the police surgeon who was summoned! The Coroner's officer who was also summoned to the scene, was a PC Wright, who arrived at the scene and viewed Sheila Caffells body at 9.30am, when by his account the rifle had already been removed from the body!  How utterly bizarre that by 7.42am two bodies had only been reported as found and that this state of affairs had endured from as early as 7.35am when DCI Gibbons authorised a similar message to be passed! Two bodies for the whole of that 7 minute duration. Within 3 minutes of the request for the police surgeon and the Coroner's officer to be called out to the incident, a civilian employee by the Christian name 'Linda', was contacting DS Davidson at his home address by telephone, requesting him to come on duty because she told him police were dealing with an incident at whf involving two bodies, a murder, and a suicide! Two bodies then found throughout the entire period 7.35am until 7.45am, a total of 10 minutes without a third, fourth, or fifth body being discovered! But more significantly, the second body found or reported, or spoken about was 'a suicide'!!

Now, switch back to Dr Craigs version of events, the second body he refers to was the body of June Bamber, her death a murder, not a suicide! Then refer to the composite witness statements of the firearm officers, second body found in their accounts was the body of June Bamber, a murder, not a suicide! Then examine every other composite witness statement made by any senior officer, or SOCO, and June Bambers body was the second to be found, a murder not a suicide! All these accounts are dishonest, because cops reported Neville Bambers body first and foremost! Sheila Caffells body second! June Bambers body thirdly! And, the two child victims fourth and fifth by 8.10am! Throughout this period PS Adams was the Commander of the firearms operation at the scene! But, because of an unlikely turn of events, only discovered by Harris, Gibbons and Montgomery upon entering the kitchen at about 8.15am, once the all clear had been shouted from those inside the farmhouse, and the shocking discovery by them upon entering the kitchen that there was only Neville Bambers body present there, everyone was back on alert trying to relocate Sheila's whereabouts! Montgomery assumed control of this part of the operation, he became the Commander from that point onwards! Harris used the kitchen phone to update ACC Peter Simpson regarding how the operation had just gone pearshaped! These three senior officers effectively barrackaded themselves into the kitchen fearing that Sheila might return armed with a loaded weapon and shoot them! It took 15 minutes or so for the firearm officers to relocate her! They found her recollapsed on top of the bed! This was at around 8.30am! The police surgeon, Dr Craig pronounced her as being dead without a physical examination at 8.44am, after he had already pronounced June Bamber as being dead!


« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 04:23:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #837 on: July 27, 2017, 04:28:PM »
Not much activity reported after 8.10am, only the police surgeon, Craig verifying the deaths at 8.44am!

The second SOCO team consisting of Cook, Bird, Davidson and Hammersley, all having arrived at the scene by 9.20am, but prevented from taking control of the scene by senior officers who were engaged with performing 'informatives', which lasted at least an hour between 9 am and 10 am! Why were the second SOCO team kept waiting outside the farmhouse for over 40 minutes?
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Roch

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #838 on: July 27, 2017, 04:41:PM »
Roch I have wondered if any of the young officers saw what went on and would not dare to speak out to their superior officers but I am wondering if any of them have since confided in others on the QT.

Who knows Susan?  When you consider many of the protagonists are dead - even if a living colleague did play some minor role in aiding a wrongful conviction - why should they take the flak for decisions made by their now dead colleagues?  Also, if they know somebody who took decisions back then and who is still alive, why should relatively small-fry run the risk of getting serious flak - when the attention should be on the still living main-player?

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #839 on: July 27, 2017, 05:38:PM »
First things first. According to the contents of this version of Dr Craigs statement, he reports...

Secondly, my reference to him being the police surgeon, comes from the contents of a police radio message log, I believe which was timed at 7.42am, it reads something like, ' Can you contact the police surgeon, and the Coroner's officer regarding two bodies'..

Dr Craig arrived at the scene in the capacity of being the police surgeon who was summoned! The Coroner's officer who was also summoned to the scene, was a PC Wright, who arrived at the scene and viewed Sheila Caffells body at 9.30am, when by his account the rifle had already been removed from the body!  How utterly bizarre that by 7.42am two bodies had only been reported as found and that this state of affairs had endured from as early as 7.35am when DCI Gibbons authorised a similar message to be passed! Two bodies for the whole of that 7 minute duration. Within 3 minutes of the request for the police surgeon and the Coroner's officer to be called out to the incident, a civilian employee by the Christian name 'Linda', was contacting DS Davidson at his home address by telephone, requesting him to come on duty because she told him police were dealing with an incident at whf involving two bodies, a murder, and a suicide! Two bodies then found throughout the entire period 7.35am until 7.45am, a total of 10 minutes without a third, fourth, or fifth body being discovered! But more significantly, the second body found or reported, or spoken about was 'a suicide'!!

Now, switch back to Dr Craigs version of events, the second body he refers to was the body of June Bamber, her death a murder, not a suicide! Then refer to the composite witness statements of the firearm officers, second body found in their accounts was the body of June Bamber, a murder, not a suicide! Then examine every other composite witness statement made by any senior officer, or SOCO, and June Bambers body was the second to be found, a murder not a suicide! All these accounts are dishonest, because cops reported Neville Bambers body first and foremost! Sheila Caffells body second! June Bambers body thirdly! And, the two child victims fourth and fifth by 8.10am! Throughout this period PS Adams was the Commander of the firearms operation at the scene! But, because of an unlikely turn of events, only discovered by Harris, Gibbons and Montgomery upon entering the kitchen at about 8.15am, once the all clear had been shouted from those inside the farmhouse, and the shocking discovery by them upon entering the kitchen that there was only Neville Bambers body present there, everyone was back on alert trying to relocate Sheila's whereabouts! Montgomery assumed control of this part of the operation, he became the Commander from that point onwards! Harris used the kitchen phone to update ACC Peter Simpson regarding how the operation had just gone pearshaped! These three senior officers effectively barrackaded themselves into the kitchen fearing that Sheila might return armed with a loaded weapon and shoot them! It took 15 minutes or so for the firearm officers to relocate her! They found her recollapsed on top of the bed! This was at around 8.30am! The police surgeon, Dr Craig pronounced her as being dead without a physical examination at 8.44am, after he had already pronounced June Bamber as being dead!
Ok if we accept Dr Craig being a police surgeon, someone holding such a high position, yet he can't tell if a person is dead or not?