Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm

[Roch]

Then, as I fully accept that we're all coloured by our own frames of reference, I can only wonder at the dark, dirty and devious ones which may have coloured yours. I actually do know Vicars who are paragons of virtue and policemen I can trust. I'm truly sorry that your world is devoid of them.

I strongly suggest you read back over my posts regarding the police I have come across in my line of work.  I've had nothing but praise for them.

Since you shifted stance - all of a sudden the police - every last one of them - have become the salt of the earth.  Like we dont live in a world were coppers tell porkies and pathologists might be ambitious?

[Adam]

June was shot up to 7 times in bed. Twice in the head, once in the throat, twice in the chest, once in the stomach & once in the knee.

If Sheila was so 'crazy' even Nevill couldn't control her, there is no way a woman shot 7 times would have any success scratching Sheila.

This claim is not going anywhere.

[Jane]

I strongly suggest you read back over my posts regarding the police I have come across in my line of work.  I've had nothing but praise for them.

Since you shifted stance - all of a sudden the police - every last one of them - have become the salt of the earth.  Like we dont live in a world were coppers tell porkies and pathologists might be ambitious?

"LIKE we don't" but neither do we assume that they're all out for personal gain when they make decisions we don't agree with.

[Roch]

What are the two small marks diagonally up from the section you have highlighted?  Presumably 'smears'?

Smears without any source adjacent to them or around them?

Any takers?

[Caroline]

But that's the whole point isn't it.  We dont know how clear the photographs were at trial.  They cannot have been crystal clear close-ups - otherwise Drake and Arlidge simply wouldn't have been able to facilitate the choreographed questioning of Vanezis regarding smears. 

Several weeks ago, several people pm'd me to state they could not believe that there were members trying to say the marks on the back of her hand were not nail gouges and were in fact just smears.  It cannot be a coincidence that the members who were denying the gouges - are all hardline guilters?

Why not when we're doing that now?

I would bet that the people who PM'd you are hard line innocent supporters and couple of fence sitters. Works both ways however, I'm not pretending not to see them, I don't see them and think this is all just a little hype. The evidence from Venezis's notes proves they aren't injuries.

[Caroline]

I strongly suggest you read back over my posts regarding the police I have come across in my line of work.  I've had nothing but praise for them.

Since you shifted stance - all of a sudden the police - every last one of them - have become the salt of the earth.  Like we dont live in a world were coppers tell porkies and pathologists might be ambitious?

I have no reason to like the police, in fact someone close to me was fitted up by an unscrupulous member of the CID. However, that's one bad apple which wouldn't lead to the whole tree being chopped down.

[Caroline]

Any takers?

Post the picture you're referring to.

[Roch]

Why not when we're doing that now?

I would bet that the people who PM'd you are hard line innocent supporters and couple of fence sitters. Works both ways however, I'm not pretending not to see them, I don't see them and think this is all just a little hype. The evidence from Venezis's notes proves they aren't injuries.

The evidence from the crime scene images contradicts Vanezis' testimony.

[Adam]

Not sure why posters would PM Roch & say they believe the photographs show scratches.

They can quite easily agree on the main board.

[Roch]

Post the picture you're referring to.

Follow the link back to David's post and then enlarge the image in question.

[Caroline]

The evidence from the crime scene images contradicts Vanezis' testimony.

In your unqualified opinion.

[Roch]

In your unqualified opinion.

A gouge is a gouge. A scrape is a scrape.  An incision is an incision. A graze is a graze.  A nick is nick.  Broken skin is broken skin.  I don't need seven years to study medicine to have an opinion.  My mother as a nurse and my father was a doctor - does that count? 

[Caroline]

Any takers?

It's just dried blood, from where? How would I know?  but again, they don't look like injuries.

[Roch]

It's just dried blood, from where? How would I know?  but again, they don't look like injuries.

Because they can't look like injuries - because they're not allowed to be injuries.

[Caroline]

A gouge is a gouge. A scrape is scrape is a scrape. An incision is an incision. A graze is a graze. A nick is nick. Broken skin is broken skin.  I don't need seven years to study medicine to have an opinion. My mother as a nurse and my father was a doctor - does that count? 

And Venezis would have been all too familiar with those terms and readily able to describe such injuries had they been present on her actual body at the time she was in front of him. He was well able to describe such injuries on Nevil. You don't need to study any kind of medicine but you should know the limitations of using photographic imagery to draw such conclusions, after all, we're looking at the same photographs but seeing very different things - that wouldn't be so if we were looking at the actual body of Sheila Cafell, we can't do that but Venezis did and he has no reason to lie - especially on the day of the autopsy!

We are BOTH influenced by what we already believe - you claim that us hard line 'guilters' are somehow deliberately denying that such injuries exist but that you and other hard line innocent supporters are somehow free from your own already held beliefs which; have no influence on what you are seeing. I have shown you Venezis's notes which he made DURING Sheila's autopsy and your only explanation for why he makes no mention of injuries to her arm and hand are that his notes must not be genuine?  Could it not simply be that you're actually seeing what you want to see? Just like you're accusing others of doing?