Author Topic: Reason to believe cops shot Sheila, and how her blood ended up inside Silencer!  (Read 78641 times)

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Offline Steve_uk

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Professor Knight testified during the 1986 trial that Sheila could have moved around for as long as half an hour or so after receiving the first shot across the neck! I believe there to be some element of truth in his professional opinion, with the proviso that after Sheila became deeply unconscious immediately upon being shot in the kitchen! She eventually regained consciousness sufficiently to make her way upstairs to the main bedroom after 8.10am, and she collapsed on the bed! She wasn't therefore, moving around for the whole half an hour after she got shot the first time, how long would it take to get from the kitchen to the bedroom, less than a minute, a minute, a minute and a half, two minutes?
Knight was doubtful Jeremy could have concocted the scenario they were all confronted with unravelling but a few pages further (Blood Relations) he's pretty sure Sheila wasn't responsible herself.

Offline mike tesko

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Professor Knight almost got the interpretation spot on when he said that he would expect Sheila to have been moving around for as much as half an hour after she got shot on the first occasion! Except, that she did not move around continually during that half hour period, chiefly because she had lapsed into unconsciousness for almost the entirety of that estimated period, recovered and found herself collapsing on top of the bed sporting a solitary bullet wound to her throat!
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Steve_uk

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Professor Knight almost got the interpretation spot on when he said that he would expect Sheila to have been moving around for as much as half an hour after she got shot on the first occasion! Except, that she did not move around continually during that half hour period, chiefly because she had lapsed into unconsciousness for almost the entirety of that estimated period, recovered and found herself collapsing on top of the bed sporting a solitary bullet wound to her throat!
A source for this might be helpful.

Offline mike tesko

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Knight was doubtful Jeremy could have concocted the scenario they were all confronted with unravelling but a few pages further (Blood Relations) he's pretty sure Sheila wasn't responsible herself.

I co-operated with Roger Wilkes when he was penning the transcript of his book!

My involvement was chiefly in the role of making the documents available to him...

It's just a coincidence that both Wilkes and myself arrived independently of one another the belief that Sheila had not shot herself! He and I are both correct in our interpretation of the circumstances surrounding Sheila's death! She was shot and killed by another person! Sheila did shoot and kill the other four victims, but she did not kill herself.
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Steve_uk

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I co-operated with Roger Wilkes when he was penning the transcript of his book!

My involvement was chiefly in the role of making the documents available to him...

It's just a coincidence that both Wilkes and myself arrived independently of one another the belief that Sheila had not shot herself! He and I are both correct in our interpretation of the circumstances surrounding Sheila's death! She was shot and killed by another person! Sheila did shoot and kill the other four victims, but she did not kill herself.
How can one possibly discern whether somebody shot themselves or whether another hand was on the gun at the time the shot was discharged? It's why Jeremy boasted of committing the perfect crime.

Offline gringo

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If the police shot Sheila as suggested and staged her body, why didn't they stage her body in the kitchen?  Because they had made the mistake of identifying one dead female for a male etc in the kitchen, it would have been a lot easier to simply stage Sheila in the kitchen job done?  If as suggested police moved evidence about i.e. Bullet casing rifles, Sheila from off the bed etc anything else they wanted to cover up would have been easy

The problem for any release for Bamber, has to be the silencer issue, if Sheila's blood is inside the silencer Sheila could not have shot and killed herself and put the silencer back inside the cupboard.  So defence was, we have the relatives to blame for falsifying the silencer and people saying the silencer was never used, to now saying the silencer was used and it had Sheila's blood in it and police put the silencer in the cupboard. Bamber himself knows this never happened he was outside and informed at 8.15 am all his family had been found dead, so the police could not have killed and shot Sheila twice and staged her body, what would be the odds of Sheila getting shot down stairs with one rifle wrestling with police and getting shot in the throat, (what was she doing when the police looked through the window when they said one dead female, was she pretending to be dead, then jumped up and wrestled the police?) then the police shoot her in the throat, leave her for dead, she jumps up and runs upstairs lays on the bed, gets shot again with a different rifle and in a short time they decide there and then to say and stage a suicide.  It never happened, so if the silencer was used and Sheila's blood was in it, right DOWN to the fifth baffle plate, not just on that ONE baffle plate, possibly DOWN to the sixth and seventh baffle plate, with Sheila's blood inside (like Mike said) possibly a mixture of Nevilles and June's in as well (making it harder for anyone to plant all three in the silencer)  Whats the odds of the police accidentally shooting someone twice with two different rifles and covering it up and no one saying Zilch?

Not very well put but I'm no good with comprehension.
   This scenario makes no sense as soon as you think it through, Justice.
     First of all, the logs which mention two bodies downstairs, one male one female etc. were withheld for many years only coming to light after the second appeal, I believe. That there was an active attempt to conceal any evidence which might suggest that the crime scene as presented by EP is not necessarily the same as the one found by EP is self evident.
     More importantly however is the faulty logic behind your reasoning.
     Your suggestion that it would have been easier to stage Sheila's body in the kitchen after she was killed in the bedroom is preposterous. Regardless of your stance on what really did happen, the idea that EP would further contaminate the crime scene by carrying the now deceased body of Sheila back to the kitchen because in the midst of the chaos someone has realised that it has been mentioned on logs that two bodies were found on entry is frankly just silly.
     Faced with the dilemma that is alleged, I think that the easiest way to cover up the real facts would be not to move the body back downstairs but instead to hide the logs.
     Coincidentally, I'm sure, the logs were withheld/concealed for years, only eventually coming to light due to an error on EP's part. 

guest7363

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   This scenario makes no sense as soon as you think it through, Justice.
     First of all, the logs which mention two bodies downstairs, one male one female etc. were withheld for many years only coming to light after the second appeal, I believe. That there was an active attempt to conceal any evidence which might suggest that the crime scene as presented by EP is not necessarily the same as the one found by EP is self evident.
     More importantly however is the faulty logic behind your reasoning.
     Your suggestion that it would have been easier to stage Sheila's body in the kitchen after she was killed in the bedroom is preposterous. Regardless of your stance on what really did happen, the idea that EP would further contaminate the crime scene by carrying the now deceased body of Sheila back to the kitchen because in the midst of the chaos someone has realised that it has been mentioned on logs that two bodies were found on entry is frankly just silly.
     Faced with the dilemma that is alleged, I think that the easiest way to cover up the real facts would be not to move the body back downstairs but instead to hide the logs.
     Coincidentally, I'm sure, the logs were withheld/concealed for years, only eventually coming to light due to an error on EP's part.
What logs are you talking about?  It's in statements about one dead female in the kitchen which was accepted as being Neville, I think the idea that the police shot Sheila twice with two different rifles once in the kitchen and once upstairs is more silly and preposterous don't you?

guest7363

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One dead female on the kitchen floor, supporters have always said Sheila had shot herself once before the raid team entered the kitchen, even though it was Neville's mistaken for a Female, they have used this mistaken identity to fuel a MOJ, so if it was Sheila on the floor layed out before police entered with open mic's, she got shot again by the police downstairs and then got shot again upstairs with two different rifles?

Supporters claim she got shot by police while trying to give herself up (waving a white flag) so to speak, police were outside from 4.00 am onwards unharmed at times surely she had 3.5 hours of time to give herself up?

Offline lookout

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A source for this might be helpful.






I don't think you'll find a source for this Steve,Professor Wright is someone else that I don't particularly hold in high regard for.

Offline susan

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It is impossible, although it is true that because of the body's reaction to severe trauma the injured person will normally not feel pain as such therefore it's common for someone in such circumstances to attempt to get up or try to do whatever they have their muddled mind set on but the physical reaction of the body makes this impossible.

I have always thought that Sheila was blasted in the neck to either kill her or to injure her enough to be able to then finish her off with the second shot.  I cannot imagine why anyone trying to kill themselves would have shot themselves at that angle in that area of the throat.  All alone in the house after preparing herself she had time to choose the best option for instant death, just doesn't make sense to me.

Hi Maggie I know the two shots to Sheila's neck has always worried you and as the angle of the shots.  Does anyone know if the prosecution used this to convict Jeremy they were short on evidence.

Offline Steve_uk

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Hi Maggie I know the two shots to Sheila's neck has always worried you and as the angle of the shots.  Does anyone know if the prosecution used this to convict Jeremy they were short on evidence.
Vanezis said it didn't worry him as he had known cases where suicide victims took multiple shots to kill themselves. This is in the books, though I'm not sure if he was ever asked the question at trial.

guest2181

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Vanezis said it didn't worry him as he had known cases where suicide victims took multiple shots to kill themselves. This is in the books, though I'm not sure if he was ever asked the question at trial.

It is noted in one of his later statements I think.

Offline maggie

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Hi Maggie I know the two shots to Sheila's neck has always worried you and as the angle of the shots.  Does anyone know if the prosecution used this to convict Jeremy they were short on evidence.
True enough Susie and I do wonder how on earth she was able to carry out the 2nd shot after the first injury.  Think we were mislead by the original assertion that she may have been stunned for a short time then able to walk around for about 30 mins. 
In theory I can see this may have been possible because the bullet had not hit a vital organ but Sheila was very slender and frail and suffered from an appalling mental health illness which required she was heavily medicated with Haloperidol. 
I know they had dropped the dose but it was still a highly effective dose and it would not have run down in her system over the month, such drugs are designed to give off a measured, slow release dose so she would always be protected by it.
I cannot imagine she could possibly have had much resistance to the first blast in the neck.  Anyone who has ever been badly injured or tried to stand up too soon after an anaesthetic will know how dreadful that feels as your BP drops and how totally incapacitating it is.

Offline susan

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Morning Hartley & Steve thank you for your comments I will look through the statements.

guest2181

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Morning Hartley & Steve thank you for your comments I will look through the statements.

Morning Susan. If you are referring to the shots to Sheila, it is on page two of these post trial notes:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7638.msg362944.html#msg362944